Breaking: DNC strips Fla. of delegates -- primary wouldn't count

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

The Democratic Party has taken a swipe at the nation's fourth biggest state, stripping Florida of all of its '08 delegates as punishment for jumping the gun with its primary, which is forcing other states to crowd Christmas in the quest to be first.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. So does this mean that FLA won't figure in the choice of nominee at all?

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

2. I think so

UNless they change their mind and move their primary back.

[cali]

5. yep, that's what it means- unless

they avail themselves of the 30 day period given for them to move their primary back

[glowing]

3. Is there a point then in having a primary... what kind of angle are they

pulling?

[kenny blankenship]

6. They can have their Democratic primary within the period that Democratic Party bylaws prescribe

Or not - their choice.

[cobalt1999]

14. Which means quietly follow the approved "favorite state strategy"

I can't believe people are quietly willing to let a handful of pre-selected states choose the nominee for everyone. Not only quietly, but god forbid if a group of democrats in a state actually rise up against it. :shrug:

[Critters2]

15. Your vote still counts.

And the nominee should be chosen at the convention.

[cobalt1999]

18. counted or have any influence?

Like I said, if you believe this, lobby YOUR state to go last. I bet you won't.

[kenny blankenship]

26. The time to settle issues like this is at the LAST convention. Raising hell now

is setting off a WILDFIRE of competing proposed "first" primaries. If Florida gets away with it, Michigan will try to one up them. Other states are starting to shout louder. It will be a fucking LANDRUSH or landslide, whichever metaphor conveys greater chaos and turmoil to you.

Now, please try to think about how this is impacting the campaigns of Democratic Presidential candidates. They are having explosive diarrhea right now trying to plan for these multiplying contingencies. They can't even plan because every 12 hours, as this state reacts to that other state's threat to move their primary, the situation threatens to change and the chaos is getting worse. If the dam breaks New Hampshire will just move its primary to before Thanksgiving this year. It has to be stopped.

Rise up against it at the convention.

[cobalt1999]

35. It was tried at the last convention

No one was willing to listen or change. "Status quo" rules. Eventually, people vote for what they want.

[kenny blankenship]

57. I'm going to laugh my ass off at you when Cal & NY moves their primaries 2 weeks ahead of Florida's

And New Hampshire and Iowa move to 2 weeks ahead of California and NY. If Florida is allowed to do this, Florida will not end up first or in the running.

Bring it up at the convention. The fact that you lost a vote last time does not mean you will necessarily lose it again.

[cobalt1999]

63. I wouldn't mind that at all.

I don't believe Florida (even though it is my state) should have more say so than any other state. At the same time, I really don't understand why the DNC protects a select few states to choose our nominee.

People have been trying to get this message across to the organization without anyone listening for a long time. I don't mind short term chaos to force them to organize a fairer system.

If no one stands up, everything remains the same though. Let Cal and NY move, that would really open eyes that the rank and file democrats aren't happy with these decisions made in backroom meetings. An uprising is good for a organization like the DNC every once in awhile.

[wordpix]

85. "having explosive diarrhea right now trying to plan"---good, now they can't pander to one crowd or

another. They need to have a national/international theme for president in these times. They should not be provincial. "All politics is local" is not true of this presidential election, although turning out the Dem vote is.

Also, let's see who can best roll with the punches on the campaign trail.

I would like to see them do train tours as in older times. It sends a message about public transportation and people can line up along the way.

[AngryAmish]

24. For all the other offices it is the primary

from dog catcher to senator. However the Florida candidates will not vote at the convention.

[Critters2]

4. Wow. Taking away its delegates.

That'll teach 'em to mess with Iowa.

[cali]

7. It has to stop somewhere.

It's just bloody ridiculous to keep moving primaries to earlier and earlier dates.

[cobalt1999]

9. How DARE they try to have a voice.

We need an "organization" and "rules" and "punishments" to stop anyone from even trying to violate the usual "favorite state strategy". :sarcasm:

[Critters2]

12. I've never understood this bs about late primary voters

not having a voice. You can still vote for whomever you want, whenever your primary falls. If you choose not to vote for someone because they lost in Iowa or NH, you've made that choice. Your vote still counts.

[cobalt1999]

16. Not when candidate have already withdrawn because

the favorite selected states haven't gone well for them.

Tell you what, why not advocate your state go dead last? You think your vote will really have any influance?

[kdmorris]

38. Well, unless everyone has already dropped out

In 2004, when Florida's primary came around, the only two people in the race were Kerry and Kucinich. It made me happy to vote for Kucinich, but I knew he wouldn't win.

[kdmorris]

10. Yeah, and the right thing to do is, of course,

take away MY vote because our REPUBLICAN legislature decided to move it up. I can write and scream and holler about this, but I have NO SAY in this because the powers that be are fighting it out.

And disenfranchising me in the process.

Edited to add: Why would everyone else have to freaking move it to Christmas if Florida moves it to the 29th, anyway? They favored states get to have theirs weeks before that date, anyway.

[orleans]

13. aren't the "rules" in iowa and new h. that they have to be a month

ahead of all the rest of us?

[kdmorris]

33. Yes, my husband explained that after I'd edited it

Still.. I'm just angry. I've tried writing to my state senator and my state representative, but... well...

This is insane.

[yewberry]

46. NH law says a week.

I'm not sure about Iowa.

[madfloridian]

20. Florida knew exactly what they were doing.

.

I say good for the DNC.

[scarletwoman]

8. Sorry, I don't consider a right wing blog to be a credible source of information.

Do you have another source? Such as an official announcement made by the DNC?

[tkmorris]

11. Here

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-bk-democrats082507,0,5248827.story

[scarletwoman]

27. "The DNC decided to wait 30 days before taking action against the state, giving the two sides...

...time to work out an agreement." (from the body of the article at your link)

The sensationalist title in the OP implies that it's already a done deal:

Breaking: DNC strips Fla. of delegates -- primary wouldn't count

And so does the excerpt posted:

The Democratic Party has taken a swipe at the nation's fourth biggest state, stripping Florida of all of its '08 delegates as punishment for jumping the gun with its primary...

A much more accurate title would be: "DNC threatens to strip Fla. of delegates"

My objection stands in regard to using right wing sources to post news stories.

sw

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

43. The headline belies the smart, strategic approach this demonstrates.

Thanks for the heads up. MKJ

[pinto]

47. An important note. There's a 30 day negotiating period here.... *Not* a done deal:

DNC to Florida: Settle dispute over timing of primary or lose delegates
Mike Lafferty | Sentinel Staff Writer
1:52 PM EDT, August 25, 2007


The Democratic National Committee decided Saturday to strip Florida of its delegates to the 2008 party convention if the committee and the state can't settle a dispute over the timing of Florida's primary.

The DNC decided to wait 30 days before taking action against the state, giving the two sides time to work out an agreement.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-bk-democrats082507,0,5248827.story

and, from yesterday:

Florida jostles for position in race for the White House
Tamara Lytle | Chief Washington Correspondent
August 24, 2007

WASHINGTON - Florida Democrats have launched a pre-emptive strike at the national party in the showdown over the date of the presidential primary.

Five members of the state's congressional delegation sent a letter to Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday warning they will fight back if the national party punishes the state for moving up its primary to Jan. 29. That's one week ahead of the date both parties have set as the earliest possible vote for Florida and most other states.

<snip>

The race to the front of the line has led to chaos and a compressed primary schedule. National party leaders and political scientists worry that the nominees would be chosen so early that many voters would not have time to become familiar enough with the issues and the candidates.


The DNC quietly offered Florida an alternative -- a caucus after Feb. 5 that the national party would pay for.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-primaries2407aug24,0,2927535.story

[kdmorris]

61. The question is:

Will our fucked up legislative leadership work it out? They KNEW when they moved our primary up that this would be the penalty. They KNEW and did it anyway.

Dean isn't the problem.

[pinto]

64. Republican led legislature, right? I see they have their own problems with

their national party rules. Unsure of the backstory, from the state perspective.

[kdmorris]

65. Yes, definitely Republican led.

Unfortunately, many of the Dems in there are just DINO, as well.

[WillyT]

17. And Here's A Bunch More...

Link: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=dnc&um=1&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&scoring=n

And no... nothing on the DNC website so far.

:shrug:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. No offense, FLA. It's just that your state probably shouldn't be the first based on recent history.

And trying to force the issue, this year, for this particular issue, seems to be driven by other than the Democratic agenda.

Dos centavos. MKJ

PS, on edit, and I :loveya: my fellow Floridian DU'ers...

And, please weigh in here, of all places, am I off base?


Double edit, just saw mf's post. :-)

[rzemanfl]

23. The Legislature is dominated by Repukes-who fucked us again.

I hate those people.

[kdmorris]

48. Amen!

Edited to add: Many of the Dems on the state house voted for it too.

[rzemanfl]

58. That's two "Amens" I have gotten in two days. I should join the

clergy.

[kdmorris]

66. I couldn't think of anything else to do say!

I could just go with YAY!, but given the topic, it sounded really weird!

[rzemanfl]

69. Well, there goes my ministry. n/t

[Mend]

52. No, we are Floridians and we don't care...we are voting Democratic, we like all

the candidates, and will go with our party's nominee.

[RB TexLa]

21. "I must be obeyed! Rural white voters make the decision!"

[cobalt1999]

25. Weird thing is...

If we'd had a national primary day, Dean would probably have been selected and had a good chance of being president right now. He's protecting the same states that killed his chances in 2004.

[orleans]

28. so...why don't we just do a national primary day?

regardless of the fact that the candidates would have to be in a million places at once--

might be kind of interesting.

[RB TexLa]

40. Or have four in two weeks, one from the South, NE, Midwest, and West/SW with a requirement that

there be at least one with significant rural population and one with significant urban population?

[LiberalFighter]

72. Repeating what I suggested a week or two ago... 6 regional primaries

Each election a different region starts off the primaries. That way they all get a chance at being first.

And it would save the candidates money campaigning on the airwaves and transportation.

[cobalt1999]

41. We should.

Of course, that would cause the early states to raise hell. Just like they did in the last convention. Nothing will ever change unless the individual states start standing up to this BS.

[cali]

53. Here's why:

It would totally cut out candidates like Clinton in '92. The only candidates would be those with HUGE war chests who could afford 50+ million dollar advertising. If you believe that retail politics has some value, and that candidates like Carter and Clinton should have a chance, there's a lot to be said for small states going first. Doesn't have to NH and Iowa, and perhaps it could be on some sort of rotating basis, but I don't want a national primary day. That would totally suck.

[WillyT]

36. Is Dean Doing This ??? - Sounded To Me Like A Committee Voted This Way...

with only one opposing vote cast.

:shrug:

[cobalt1999]

51. I don't know how much is on Dean.

The DNC has some very set in stone committees. However, Dean has come out in support of the rules and said so to the Florida delegation. As the leader, he could advocate a fairer system (national primary day, rotating schedule, regional primaries), but all he's done is protect the select few who seem to have a hold on the committees.

[orleans]

22. as do children, so do adults

kids at school who quit an activity in order to be the first in line

thereby inciting the domino effect

where other kids will quit the activity early for one of two reasons:
they think it is time to stop and get in line
or
they want to be up near the front of the line also

solution?
send them to the back of the line and make sure they are last. or specifically direct them that they must continue the activity after everyone else has stopped.

one or two or three times of this and they start getting the message: the activity was not about a race to see who can be in line first.

[cobalt1999]

31. So why do the same kids ALWAYS get to be first in line?

I don't understand how poeple are not willing to even challenge the hand selected favorite few over and over and over.

[WillyT]

29. What's Wrong With Rotating It Every Four Years, Or Having A Lottery ???

Is it just too cumbersome, or is there too much money to be made by being the first???

Or... do we rely on small states going first to weed out the "crazies" like a Dean or a Kucinich?

Disclaimer: I do NOT think Dean or Kucinch are crazy, LOL! But I'm sure many in the party machinery do.

:shrug:

[AngryAmish]

30. In all seriousness, Floridians should not determine who our leaders are

The problem with Florida is that the state is filled with Floridians.

There is a reason Fark has a Florida tag. The people there are damned weird ans should not be trusted with things.

[cobalt1999]

32. How about an national primary?

So everyone gets a say so?

[AngryAmish]

37. That is not so bad - however there is a cost issue

I am a regional primary supporter -- one that rotates every cycle.

[cobalt1999]

54. That's fair.

Publish a schedule and everyone would know.

[rzemanfl]

39. Yeah, well you and your horse. YOU try living in a state were

voting is a crapshoot and the Repukes bring the dice.

[AngryAmish]

45. See what I mean

[rzemanfl]

55. Well, in that case, I take back what I said about your horse. n/t

[kdmorris]

44. Excuse me???

Thanks a fucking lot. I hope to hell you are kidding, cause that's not really nice.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. You're blaming the people rather than the corrupt political machine?

A machine that is trying to disrupt the Democrats in any way possible.

MKJ

[LiberalFighter]

73. I thought Florida was filled with retirees and Miami Cubans

I definitely don't want no god damn Miami Cubans (those that want the US to overthrow Cuba) to be deciding who will be our President.

[1monster]

78. And you know this how? You've lived in Florida? Or at least visited it for more

than a trip to the Mouse House and a dip in the ocean?

I've lived here for thirty-three years, and the truth of the matter is that most Floridians came from other states... The population of the county I live in went from 15,000 in the mid seventies to nearly a million today. And no, it wasn't due to a major baby boom here.

Florida is just like any other state, except that, due to tourism, many places are much more cosmopolitan that cities and towns of similar size where there is less tourism.

[porphyrian]

79. You trying to pick a fight or something?

You better smile when you say shit like that, pahdnuh.

[rzemanfl]

34. This is another Republican trick to fuck over Democrats in

Florida, as if they haven't done that enough already. We should all change our registrations to Republican, bog down the system and screw up their primary by voting for the worst of the bunch of asshats they have running. Then we can vote absentee, our ballot envelopes will be marked "Republican" and our votes will get counted for once.

Dean screwed this one up.

[kdmorris]

42. Dean didn't screw it up necessarily

It's just fucked up. Florida's legislature KNEW what they were doing.

If I get disenfranchised, you better bet your ass that I'm going to register as a Republican and vote for the creepiest, most awful, no way in hell will anyone vote for him Republican there is left on the ballot.

[rzemanfl]

59. Me too, I would hate to be working at the Supervisor of Elections

office about now. Until a better idea hits me I plan to write in Tommy Thompson, no...wait, Albeto Gonzalez, or even better, Mark Foley.

[kdmorris]

67. Perfect!

(There ya go, better than Amen!) I'm going to go to the Republican primary and write in a vote for Mark Foley.

[rzemanfl]

70. You have to change your registration,. n/t

[kdmorris]

76. Yeah, but I only have to do it until after the Primary

I just won't look at my card until I change it back to make me feel less like vomiting.

[rzemanfl]

82. The Supervisors of Elections are going to love this shit. n/t

[lovuian]

49. So millions in Florida won't be represented

this is sad news

[SidDithers]

50. Why do you need primaries at all?...

Why not just have the leadership convention, and let the delegates vote for whomever they want. Then, as candidates drop out of each successive ballots, they generally either move their delegates to another candidate, or release them to vote as they please.


Sid

[tkmorris]

56. Wow

Then we the people wouldn't have any say at ALL in who is nominated. Do I have that right?

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

62. Yeah, have to agree with you

that's a pretty bad idea.

[mrdmk]

71. There are three solutions here and the Republicans will not go for any

because they are solutions.

1) Rotational Primaries

2) The order of the primaries will be pulled out of a hat (i.e. different every four years)

3) Proportional voting (i.e. you will rank the order of the candidates from favorite to less favorite). Lets see who wants to first with this type of voting.

[SidDithers]

83. No, delegates are elected in each riding association...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_convention

Us Canadians look on the 2 year campaign for the Presidency with some bemusement. We can't figure out why it should take so long, and cost so much, to find a candidate to run in the general election.

Sid

[LiberalFighter]

75. Who would decide who are the delegates?

Currently those delegates are determined by the primary results in each congressional district.

[SidDithers]

84. Delegates are elected by local riding associations...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_convention

Sid

[Maribelle]

68. The Republican Governor and Republican Legislature of Florida must be having a good laugh over this.

on edit: They are the ones that set the date.

Floridian republicans love to make fools of the democrats. It's a game with them.

[mrdmk]

74. You forgot to mention that Donna Brazile down there with her non-sense

<from op link>
During the debate, Donna Brazile, a DNC member from D.C. who was campaign manager for Gore-Lieberman in 2000, said: “I understand how states crave to be first. I understand that they’re envious of the role that Iowa and New Hampshire have traditionally played. And I understand that they would like to see if they can get the candidates to come down and … spend all of their time and the resources and fill their bars — oh, sorry, not the bars! — fill their farms and their barns up with people. But the truth is is that we had a process. … That vote will stand … and send a signal to the people of Florida – which includes my sister, who had to show not one, not two, but three forms of ID in 2000.”
<end of snip>

This will teach people in bars not to talk to one another.:wtf:

[BlooInBloo]

77. Wow - why Dean wants to make the DNC irrelevant is beyond me...

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/25/135948/120

[porphyrian]

80. The can't not count our votes.

You can't disenfranchise an entire state's worth of Democrats for some squabbling about the primary date. This is all political posturing and bluster because some career politicians got snitty with some other career politicians. They should settle it over drinks and a round of golf like any other bunch of overpriviledged brats, not by using the rest of us as pawns.

[mountainvue]

81. Holy shiite! Here we go. n/t

[Colobo]

86. Less votes for Hillary then! Good.