60 Minutes: The NOLA doctor. Euthanasia?

[trof]

Bless her heart, anyway, for the courage to do what was right.
Should be interesting.

[applegrove]

1. Is it a replay? I think most of them have been for the last little while.

[MichiganVote]

2. Euthanasia was not proven. No criminal conviction.

[SharonAnn]

3. But the civil suits from the families still go on. It has ruined her life because we didn't

do what we should. We didn't even try to rescue the people in NOLA.

I'm so ashmed to we, the united States government, left her in that position.

[trof]

4. I'm ashamed too.

[bluerum]

6. Someone who stayed and risked their life trying to help is getting screwed.

The coward delinquents who simply never showed up and did not care - well they get to carry on fucking up the rest of the world.

[Thothmes]

19. Her position

Don't forget they were abetted by the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisana

[AllieB]

27. It was mostly the Federal Government and the Army Corps of Engineers

They allowed NOLA to drown.

[blondeatlast]

21. She and the nurses are taking the heat for a colossal failure on

the part of federal (mostly), state, and local governments.

Their story is a metaphor for the entire thing--kind of like the novel and movie versions of M*AS*H.

[pansypoo53219]

8. if anything

it was mercy killing. and if the families want to put shome blame somewhere, they should be suing GEORGIE.

[MichiganVote]

10. Mercy kiling was not proven either. But if it had been me, and I were as old and sick as these

people, I'd welcome a calm death.

[shance]

5. Good people's lives are destroyed because bad people abuse money and grab undeserved power

and property and actively seek to harm those doing the right thing.

It is guaranteed to destroy our planet if it isn't stopped.

[undeterred]

7. I'm just freakin out that there's a good guy named Negroponte.

Next story.

[Pastiche423]

34. He's John's younger brother

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Negroponte

He is the younger brother of John Negroponte, current United States Deputy Secretary of State.

[AnneD]

9. Trust me folks....

the medical community has been watching this and it has been having a chilling effect. After Katrina and Rita-may medical folks have made the decision that should a disaster like that happen again-we would not be staying. They could order us til they are blue in the face-but it is not worth it to be put through what that Doc and those Nurses have gone through. Many in the medical community have donated money to the defense fund.

I was professionally abused after Rita and told that I would have to take care of folks-lots of them 1) without medicines 2)without their orders 3)without identification of said patients (and they were unable to tell me who they were), AND I would have to do this an untold number of hours without relief and my family would have to fend for themselves. Now, if I had done that, and a patient had been injured or God forbid die, I can see what that would have gotten me. I told them no way, refused to take report and walked out-never to return. I can always get another J O B- but it is hard to get a license. I am at the point in my life where I don't suffer fools very well.

I was trained to help-and I would do it in a minute-but not without legal protection and not without back up.

[knitter4democracy]

13. I know my hubby's nervous.

One of the hospitals he covers started having committee meetings on working up a Plan B and a Plan C to a Code Black. The "what if no one ever shows up to help, there's no water and no power, and there's no way out" plans.

Dr. Pou is a hero, and it's horrific that she should be sued after being found innocent of all charges.

[AnneD]

30. So glad to see you posting Knitter....

How are you and that sweet family of yours doing. You are never far from my thoughts and prayers. I am here in Houston so this is not some idle exercise in the what ifs but more of when its.

I have to admit, between my personal experiences and that of my Nurse parents that were stuck at Charity in NOLA, I have already made up my mind. I don't care if the Federal Marshals come to my door and drag me to the hospital-I will not practice like that. Now should folks come to my door (as they do now on occasion), I will render what aid I can-but that is as a human being/not as an employee.

The hospital is wise to make arrangements for a code black because it is a distinct possibility. My allegiance is to my child and my family, not the corporate interests that run most hospitals.

When I worked in rural NM-it was different. It was a small community hospital and when we had a big forest fire, I was first out there on the scene with home made ham salad sandwiches, pbj sandwiches, thermoses of coffee, and jugs of water and a first aid kit I threw together. Red Cross got there 10 hours later. I didn't hesitate because knew the rest of the community would be behind me-I was just the first to arrive on the scene. But if the community can't back you and your family up......I won't be there.

[knitter4democracy]

38. Hubby's at a small community hospital here.

Well, two of them now, but they're only 20 minutes apart. They're short on doctors as it is, so they'd need everyone on hand if something big happened. Hubby and I have already talked through our plans if there's a Code Black for getting the family out and where to meet him and such, if we have to evacuate.

Thank goodness here in Michigan all hospitals have to be non-profit. The small ones here are integral parts of the community, and the communities support them. If anything happened here, I'm sure we'd pull together. I was amazed at how we all pulled together for the Katrina victims who were evacuated up here. Many of them stayed here, and we got them houses, jobs, and everything they needed. If a big crisis hit here, we'd be like you--first ones there with food and water and ready to help. We were upset when they decided not to evacuate anymore from the Gulf up here to Michigan, even though our governor offered housing and anything they needed.

It's nice to run into you, too, AnneD. :) We're all making it, I'm slowly coming out of my medical crap, and there's still no sign that the tumor was cancer, so it's all good. :hi:

[blondeatlast]

22. Good Lord. Your story deserves a stand-alone post. As someone

with a chronic condition who has seen the inside of many hospitals, I appreciate good docs and nurses more than anyopne--and I let them know when I think they're good.

This is really frightening to me. I wear medical ID--I'm beginning to think that everyone should get MedicAlert whether they have a medical condition or not.

You did the right thing, IMHO--and I say that as one who might be in danger of being denied care for the reasons you cite. It's tough to take, but maybe people will wake up to the reality.

:scared:

[AnneD]

31. When we had a flood, my sitter...

that took care of my then 9yo daughter, had emphysema. We could walk out of our flooded neighborhood and directed the rescue boat to her house. Once out, she insisted that we stay together and once I identified myself as a nurse-I set up her O2 and started taking care of those coming in. As luck would have it, they put us in the volunteer fire station that served as my daughter's girl scout troop headquarters. We had a nice set up going-coffee, food (the flood started at 4am), and aid ready. It was so nice they decided to make it headquarters. My sitter, daughter, and I were the last to be evacuated from the station to the shelter. My sitter's son came to pick her up at the shelter and was so grateful that we had stayed with her that he put us up for a week until the water receded and help me get my car (SUV-we drive them for a reason here in Houston)to the mechanic to get the fluids changed and saved my car. You are suppose to help your aid workers/not sue them.

Always keep important med papers in a zip lock bag-I would even put a snap shot of yourself or a driver's license. Have some spare meds packed if you can or at the very least have a complete list of meds you are on.

People that go into medicine have compassion. What happened in NOLA was an abuse of that compassion.

[knitter4democracy]

40. It was an abuse.

More than that, they're suing the wrong people. Those lawsuits need to get dropped and then changed to FEMA. Period.

[knitter4democracy]

39. I wear one too.

Just in case. They would need to know my conditions that are the most problematic.

[RB TexLa]

29. And I'm sure you know, you transport or take part in transporting a patient without

verifiable identification can be and has been prosecuted in Louisiana. I think it's 5 to 20 years for the kidnapping and 10 or so for false imprisonment.

[AnneD]

32. Well that explains the ass backwards lawsuits....

If that is the case, maybe those workers that left those elderly at the nursing home had a point.

That law needs to be revisited and fast.

[RB TexLa]

33. I think kidnapping and false imprisonment laws need to remain intact n/t

[AnneD]

35. But they need perhaps an exemption

in the event of emergency evacuations. Otherwise, how could I avoid being sentenced for evacuating and taking some elderly with me. I am taking about the case of the elderly that drowned in the Nursing Home.

Say I worked in a Nursing home as a Nurse and say I and several of the aids each took several of those elderly with us when the water was rising and no one was coming to help us...we would be guilty of kidnapping these folks because we tryed to take them to safety, but if we left them in the home to drown, we would be following the law and wouldn't be sue.....

Yeah, right. I still think the law needs to be revisited and revised.

[RB TexLa]

36. They also have to object to the transportation.

Most of the cases are from forced or attempted forced hospitalizations. Or when someone is leaving a hospital without waiting for a doctor to discharge them.

[AnneD]

42. Well that 'forced' hospitalization...

would apply to most folks in a nursing home. That is a poorly written law and does not seem to have provisions for a worst case. Here in Texas you can go AMA (against medical advice) and most folks that are like that and are in their right mind-hell I'll stand out of their way and be happy to give their bed to someone that want's treatment-it's a waste of my time otherwise.

But if someone is confused and frail, they may not understand the peril they are in. I would want to help them as best I could in whatever way made them the most safe and comfortable. As a society we desperitly need to face some things like euthanisia, end of life, and quality of life issue. This is not a one size fits all like the law you mention assumes.

[uppityperson]

37. When has this been prosecuted? I'd like to see a link or proof to read myself.

Not saying it hasn't, most states have some asinine laws, but I'd like to read what you are talking about, link, etc. Thanks.

[RB TexLa]

11. Wasn't it because they thought medicare and insurance wasn't going to pay for days during flooding?

So the doctor didn't have any use for the patients?

[Robbien]

12. No. Of course not

There was another thread on this and an article at the MSNBC site

Small excerpt from the MSNBC interview with the doctor

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20437669/site/newsweek/page/0/

Tell me about conditions from Wednesday night until Thursday.

By the time Wednesday evening came around, if you can imagine in our mind, there is a central area that is a sea of people. A lot of very sick patients in that central triage area. It’s grossly backed up. Few patients had been evacuated. So there was just enough space to walk between the stretchers. It is extremely dark. We’re having to care for patients by flashlight. There were patients that were moaning, patients that are crying. We’re trying to cool them off. We had some dirty water we could use, some ice. We were sponging them down, giving them sips of bottled water, those who could drink. The heat was—there is no way to describe that heat. I was in it and I can’t believe how hot it was. There are people fanning patients with cardboard, nurses everywhere, a few doctors and wall-to-wall patients. Patients are so frightened and we’re saying prayers with them. We kind of looked around at each other and said, “You know there’s not a whole lot we can really do for those people.” We’re waiting . The people in that area could have by boat but no boats were coming.

At what point did it become clear some patients wouldn’t make it out alive?

I think when we went to reverse triage. It was always everybody’s hope that every single person would make it out of the hospital. Everybody did everything to make that happen. What you have to do when resources are limited, you have to save the people you know that you can save. And not everybody is going to survive those kind of conditions. And we knew that. People were dying. People were dying in the hospital. Not through lack of effort. Healthy people were getting sick. Employees’ family members were getting sick. People from the neighborhood came in getting sick. We were trying to find insulin for people. It was a mass of people—very chaotic. You have to realize there were people everywhere, not only patients, but 2,000 people in the hospital. That is a lot of people.

Tell me about the decision to administer painkillers to the nine people on the seventh floor.

There were patients, all of us knew, still remaining in the LifeCare unit. They were category three . We all believed eventually everybody was going to leave the hospital. We just didn’t know when or what was the time frame. So we knew that patients were going to be there for long time. We knew they were going to be there another day. That they would go through at least another day of hell. Basically it was decided to give the patients sedation.

Who exactly made the decision?

It was basically a group decision. I was asked to go check on patients on LifeCare.

So who was the doctor in charge on the LifeCare’s acute unit on the seventh floor?

To my knowledge nobody was there. The medical director was not there.

[uppityperson]

14. No way. That is a HUGE insult to health care workers.

Doctors and nurses don't particularly care who will pay or how, that is for hospital finance people, administrators, those ilk. To say a doctor "didn't have use for the patients" because hospital payment was in question is a HUGE insult.

[RB TexLa]

15. Oh, yeah, they all are filled head to toe with sugar and spice

:crazy:

[uppityperson]

17. No, they are there to help save lives and do the best they can.

Administration and billing cares about payment. What a nasty thing to say.

[RB TexLa]

20. Doctors don't care if they are paid their fees? Oh Kay

[TornadoTN]

24. Somehow, I doubt any doctor who had stayed around

for that long, during that time, was concerned about how they were going to get paid.

I can see how you might think that payment is all doctors are looking out for because it seems we run into that a great deal out here in the world day to day. But most of its beyond the control of the docs and in the hands of admins who set policies that turn people away based on payment.

Sure, there are bad doctors out there, but this is not one of them

[uppityperson]

26. I think that poster has some sort of issue or just likes to argue here.

Or really doesn't understand and likes to argue. Not sure, but seems apparent, time to stop feeding it (reminder to me)

[uppityperson]

25. Not hospital ones. They get paid anyway. The hospital people care about the money

It one of the nice things about hospitals, they collect the money, they deal with finances and let the providers do health care. You seriously didn't know this? Wow. Can you place the USA on a map?

[knitter4democracy]

41. Please keep in mind that several doctors are on this site.

Yes, there are unscrupulous doctors out there. I personally know one, and my husband's a doctor, and we've been together since he was a pre-med. I know a lot of doctors, and I only know one who does everything for the money. One out of many. The vast majority are trying to keep ahead of personal and professional debt and still treat their patients the best way they can.

[yardwork]

16. Oh my gosh no! Who said that? What a horrible slander.

Read the accounts of what the few remaining hospital staff dealt with in the days after Katrina hit. They were struggling to save lives and stay alive themselves. They didn't give a damn about reimbursement!

[pitohui]

18. dr. pou is not the doctor who abandoned ship

she is the doctor who stepped in to help these patients after the doctor who was supposed to be caring for them jumped to first place on a boat and ran for his life

THAT'S the doctor who had no use for these patients

and he is the one who subsequently spread lies to cover his own sorry ass

[wicket]

28. Has the doctor who fled ever been punished

Freakin' coward :grr:

[blondeatlast]

23. Can you cite anything to back this up? nt