did anybody watch Christiane Amanpour's "Gods Warriors"?

[leftofthedial]

those people--hundreds of millions of them! all over the world!--are frigging nuts. Screaming bugnuts. Mentally ill. Unfriggingbelievable.

[YOY]

1. Yup...is that news?

and they tend to have more kids than the rest of us...

Shame they can't just kill each other off without affecting the rest of us...

[leftofthedial]

10. they all believe it is their god-given duty to either convert us or kill us

this is a bunch of psychopaths

[YOY]

16. I wonder what would happen if we bult a spaceship and told them they can't come

Just a little sci-fi hypothetical thinking.

[Crayson]

64. I'd say we built one for Muslims and one for Christians..

... and the last one would be for the atheists, which unfortunately never lifts off while the other two are already on their way into the heart of the sun.

oh... imagine that peace... and silence... and we were happily toiling in our science labs ever after and built a great planet-spanning society.

[Crayson]

66. I'm a armed and dangerous die hard atheist...

Let them come!
^_^

Oh I love Jehovas Witnesses at my door and lure them to their doom into my living room, turning on some satanic music, waving around my Voodoo doll while drinking from a skull and drawing pentagrams.

Or I just love to make up religions out of the blue and then die hard believing in them and justifying EVERYTHING by my just right then newlyfound believe that I of course cannot proove to anybody which exactly makes it like one of the greatest religions!

[MissB]

2. I loved the segment that she did about the guy in the US.

The "christian" dude who was getting all those teens to sign up for a year at his training school at $600/mo per kid. The one who organized huge rock-concert style events.

Amanpour was talking with him about his dress code, and he was giving some shit about women dressing modestly so that men aren't tempted. Amanpour correctly pointed out that was what the Taliban said.

:rofl:

[Coexist]

4. that was a fantastic moment.

[bleedingheart]

23. my creep meter went off when I watched that guy...

I suspect in a few years we will find out about how he is "counseling" his way into someone's pants...specifically some young man or woman's pants...

Before Rock-n-Roll...Religious leaders were the ones who never seemed to lack...money and sex...

[orleans]

41. i thought that also when i saw that guy. n/t

[snappyturtle]

3. Yes I watched all six hours. Could you be more specific? Are

you talking about a specific group or religious people in general?

[leftofthedial]

11. she didn't interview a single fundie who wasn't certifiably nuts.

not in any country, any race or any religion

they are all mentally ill

[snappyturtle]

33. What struck me the most was how these zealots, no matter what

the religion, were unwilling, to say the least,to tolerate another's religion! That's why I think the war should end.....and we should quit pushing our idealogies. Live and let live. imho

edit: I asked my first question to see if you saw one of the three groups as more outstanding in their hatred.....you saw what I saw, it was pretty fanatical all the way around. The Christians and the Jews may not come out and say "Death to the Islamists!" but we do it, so......

[leftofthedial]

39. they're too busy hating gays and women

they haven't gotten around to Muslims yet.

[snappyturtle]

70. Oh yes we have.....who are we killing in the wars? n/t

[napi21]

5. Yes I watched all 3 parts,. You're wrong about "those people".

Yes, I too have a difficult time understand how they can carry on hatered for thousands of years, but they grew up being taught that their religion was the central part of their life, and they are TAUGHT that the greatest thing you can do is be a martyr for your faith. They're not mentally ill, nor are they nuts. They're just living their culture.

I'm sure there are some things you were raised to believe...religious or not...that is part of your culture, and you aren't willing to give it up either.

[Az]

7. Very good and very important point

Religion is not insanity. It may be wrong, it may be extreme, but it is not insanity. All religions around the world are the product of sociological forces working within the normal structure of the human brain. There may be insanity or other atypical neurologies involved in the formation of some religions. But it is the functioning of normal minds that enables religions to propagate. If it required insanity to spread a religion would die out rather quickly.

[xiamiam]

57. the problem is the use of religion to subjugate and divide...and ladies, there is one common thread

among all of the zealots...and that is keeping us in our place...which is right under their feet...i only saw two episodes..but i thought it was great... barely scratching the surface of what people believe in the name of God....sheep being led to slaughter...downright scary....

[leftofthedial]

12. nope. they are nuts

they are irrational, wherever the seed of insanity came from, they are frigging nuts.

[meow2u3]

14. They're not living their cultures, but living in CULTS!

If, as you assert, fundies are simply living their culture, it's the culture that's unhealthy. Or, better yet, a cult-ure. These "warriors for God" are caught up in a cult run by sociopathic cult leaders who really don't give a rat's ass about the salvation of their followers, but rather, these psychos brainwash their followers to prop themselves up in search of absolute power

[napi21]

19. Sometimes people think that any group they completely disagree with

is a cult. I know I was SHOCKED when I first moved from the ne to the South and heard that because I was a Catholic, I was a cultist! I'm not a member of the real fundie Catholics, and I believe everyone should be free to believe as they chose. I guess that's why I really can't agree with you on the cult idea.

[immoderate]

48. All religions start out as cults. And if they survive, they become...

Big cults!

--IMM

[bleedingheart]

26. While religion is a part of people's cultural upbringing...

how much you "drink in" of your culture varies...

This segment focused on those folks who are fundamentalists...the folks who have drunk deeply from the well of their faith...and in many cases those who belong to the more radical elements of their faith..

Americans have many different cultural experiences...however a lot of americans who get involved in fundamentalism do so not because of their upbrining but because they have had some crisis in their life and instead of turning to other sources of comfort or outlet...they turned to their existing faith or to a faith that fills a void.

An american who has had a problem with drugs, with managing his/her life...who turns to fundamentalism which in turn tells this person..."it was never your fault..it was the liberalism around you that made your life difficult for you...so let us think for you"

Yes some americans are born into this nonsense as well..and they too are given a perfect excuse for when life goes wrong...it is everyone else's fault but theirs...who would leave such a protective environment that says everything you want to hear...

same for the Palestinians...your home is bulldozed by Israelis...so you are mad...and your goverment is either weak or non existent...so you turn to the group that says..."we have a solution"...so they give you more reason to be mad...more reason to hate...and they convince you to strap a bomb to yourself...or have your sons do it...all for the faith...

[leftofthedial]

49. I'm a major proponent of civil liberties, BUT

I am rethinking my personal limits on one's freedom to "believe" whatever one wants (in light of the obvious mental instability of the followers and the coercive power of the leaders and cultures)

these movements are a danger to us all

[bleedingheart]

54. whenever I meet people who are trying to convert me...I think of this

that they are insecure in their own belief...that they feel it is really important for them to find other folks to believe as well in order to reaffirm their own insecurities about their religious choice..

it is the hallmark of lemming like behavior....and when the lemming feels you aren't going along...they get mad...and they either tell you that they will pray for you...or they keep bugging the shit out of you because how dare you have the independence of thought that it takes to say ..."nope..i am happy the way I am"...

[leftofthedial]

56. at what point is "religious" belief tantamount

to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater?



their insecurity also shows in the way they plug their ears and go "la la la la la" when confronted by truth that contradicts their delusions

[spoony]

71. And how, exactly, do you plan on curtailing belief?

[ComerPerro]

31. using your logic, abortion clinic bombers are heroes

[napi21]

37. How did you get that opinion from what I said? I Never said ANYONE

was a hero! NONe of the radicals are heros except inside their own cults. Because they believe very strongly in "some leader" and they are told in effect, the same thing we criticize the Mislim fundies for..."Kill all the Infidels!" Unfortunately that kind of teaching has existed inside all religions since their beginning. Most people have advance beyond the brutal violence but the fundies in all religions have NOT. They are still living in the ancient past and would love to force everyong to join them!

[ComerPerro]

40. you seem to be ok with them wanting to be martyrs for their religion

[TrogL]

43. She's saying there's a reason behind the madness

...not that it's OK by our standards.

The original concept was that these people are insane.

They're not. They're working from false premises.

[napi21]

44. I'm not OK with it, but I understand why they do it. Don't get me wrong,

this kind of thing has absolutely NO PLACE in the US at all! We have laws in the US that forbids it. I was mainly talking about the Arab and Israeli cultures in their oown lands. Especially in the Arab world, it seems the majority of the people WANT to live in a theocracy and under the religious rules of ancient times. From what I can tell, that's why there're so pi**ed off at the West! They don't LIke the modernization of our culture and they don't want us in their world because they believe we'll corrupt their ways too!

I don't agree with the things they do, and I sure wouldn't want to live there, but I understand they believe in their way of life too.

[bullimiami]

6. i only saw a few minutes with the girls studying at liberty.

they look so normal but when open their mouths the wrong spills out.
creepy.

[izzie]

8. In general what I saw I liked. I do find all those types scary

When you give up reason to what ever will be will be I always want to run. History books are full of millions being killed for this blind faith in God telling you you are right so any thing can go on if you are right. Just scary.

[leftofthedial]

17. and it never works. it just makes things worse--

(and a few people incredibly wealthy and powerful)--

over and over and over and over again throughout history

but our blighted species seems to turn out new generations of broken brains like a chinese toy factory turns out weapons of mass destruction

they never learn

they spew irrational absurdities and get louder and louder until their mob is strong enough to start killing people

[izzie]

61. And mobs are a place a man with reason need not be

--

[bleedingheart]

25. my nutso neighbor is a fundamentalist...

she isn't even worth talking too...

you could tell her the sky was blue...she would see it was blue but if she was directed by her church to say it was pink...she would argue round and round that it was pink...in spite of any evidence..

and to talk to her about politics..or history that isn't even worth my time.

[izzie]

63. I have a big field behind me then the fundamentalist live and

now their friend have bought the field. I just stay away but to tell you the truth I have often wondered what they are shooting at over their. Guns are going off all the time. We have the use of the field for our horses and I keep thinking they will get shot. I think it must be easier with these people to let some one else doing the thinking for them. In my years I have met many many women that stopped thinking years ago and just sit back and let their husbands do it all. Moving that way to some nut in church is not far off. As a group they seemed to have shut their minds to any thing new. One has to say that their are always people who feel more at ease to always run into what they know, then open ones mind to any thing new. Just look at art. All of history, any thing new was just to much for people. We just seem to like what we are used to. It seem to be self feeding if you think this way that if every one did, you have to be right. Our history is full of that thinking. When you have the power things get out of hand. Reason why our founders got it all down on paper what our rights would be. These people do not seem to understand that at all.

[eleny]

9. I thought CA did an excellent job

[leftofthedial]

18. yes.

she was excellent

[beastieboy]

13. I watched all 3 nights, I can't tell who is the most fucked up.

Christians Jews and Muslims are all equally nuts as far as I can tell. Just finished reading "The God Delusion" too.

[leftofthedial]

20. all the sons of abraham

if I could go back in time and change one thing, i'd go back and make sure that abraham dude never procreated

[BlueManDude]

15. Fundamentalists of all stripes are a threat to peace and safety.

[leftofthedial]

21. they are a threat to our entire civilization

our species and our planet

[bleedingheart]

22. Yes...and they are all nuts...

thousands of years of history and yet they still think they are directed by God...

No matter the group...your religious intensity is being directed by the men who control your religion and it is typically done to make a few people far more powerful...

Whether it was the Crusades of Rome in the Middle Ages...or the Caliphates of the Muslim world...in the end...religion was always used to get the masses to fight for someone else's wealth creation..

[bleedingheart]

24. When the relgious groups aren't fighting one another...they seemed to be focusing on keeping women

in "their place"

I didn't see all of the Jewish segments.(I would love a link but I checked CNN and all seemed to be from other shows..)..but the Christian and Muslims scare me...both seem to want to keep women in their place and I have to say...the fundamentalist Muslims appear to be the most repressive....but there are Christians who would give them a run for their money as well.

Women's roles in fundamentalism appear to be:

1. Birthing children that they will offer up to god to die for him...
2. Taking care of all these kids and their husbands
3. Washing, cooking..etc

The women who have a larger role have drunk so deeply from the koolaid of their choice that they can't see they hypocrisy in their own lives...they are generally an anomaly...and if the men had their way...they wouldn't be there at all..

[leftofthedial]

50. and all the women are obviously brainwashed into believing

that the discrimination is not discrimination

presumably not being allowed to go to school or be seen in public without the burqha is a privilege

they all were irrational

[xiamiam]

58. the southern baptists handed down a creed which made women subservient and denied their ability to

pastor...jimmy carter broke with the southern baptists at that point..but answer me...what is the difference between that direction and the burqa..because those women didnt just wake up one day and decide to wear a heavy cloth with a grid obstructing their front vision and no periperphal vision..not in a womans nature to decide to wear something which makes her trip and fall, not be able to watch her children, and must be hotter than hades...you can be your life it has been enforced and ordained as Gods' will...just as the southern baptists have decided the same damn thing..
everyone here is right...those people are absolutely freakin nuts...

[leftofthedial]

60. and it is not in the Koran

anywhere

it was invented in the 7th Century

[NNN0LHI]

27. Did she mention Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple?

I didn't see it but I figured she wouldn't.

Don

[spanone]

29. she showed enough right wing christian fundies that are alive to scare shit right out of you

and acting as politicians.........while receiving tax exempts from our government.

[NNN0LHI]

30. Jim Jones would have shown the seriousness of the danger from these freaks though

She probably didn't want to mention Christian suiciders? Bad for business. I bet she spent some time on the Muslim ones though.

Don

[spanone]

35. she talked about the abortion bombers and doctor killers

i thought it was a pretty fair picture of all the religion wackos, jews, muslims & christians

[spanone]

28. proof of how religion has ironically fucked up the entire world.

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. I missed the Christian G-d Warriors, but saw the Jewish G-d warriors and the Muslim G-d Warriors.

I'm hoping to catch a repeat of what I missed, but what I DID see, I agree!!!! They're all freakin' INSANE!

[leftofthedial]

51. and Ms. Manpour did a masterful job of interviewing

they damned themselves with their own words

if it was a virus instead of an idea causing this mass insanity and suffering, we'd be fighting to eradicate it.

[Az]

34. Authoritative Dogma is the problem we face

Its not religion. Though authoritative dogma finds great comfort in religion. But such dogmatic systems can also spring up within political structures. It is just such a system that the NeoCons which to place before the people. Leo Strauss's dream was to place a fixed absolute moral system before the people to turn back the corrupting influence of progressive liberal society. And that is the torch Cheney and friends wish to place before the people to in-trance them into being pliable good citizens.

Look around the world and you will find people insisting that another people are corrupt being the source of conflict. This is based on a dogmatic claim that they have the truth that cannot be questioned and that the other group believes something else and thus is a danger.

Place a dogmatic system in charge of the nation and it will seek to purge any alternate view. If it encounters any group that differs with it there will be a struggle. And if the dogmatic nation has the upper hand more times than not it will attempt to force its view on the other nation. In blood if necessary.

[sweetpotato]

36. And all are patriarchal religions

Jews, Christians and Muslims - all the same God. And He is a male God, and females are not divine and females are "other" and must be made to submit.

Its all the same.

[leftofthedial]

52. it's indefensible on any basis other than

a tradition of allowing people to behave insanely as long as they label it "religion"

[xiamiam]

59. BINGO....nt

[yardwork]

38. Read Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale"

That book is practically coming true before our eyes. It describes the kind of world that fundamentalists want to impose.

[leftofthedial]

53. also a terrific movie

s-c-a-r-y

[orleans]

42. very spooky. n/t

[porphyrian]

45. I missed it. It was walldude's fault. - n/t

[youthere]

68. Damn walldude! Someone needs to stop him...seriously.

[Chulanowa]

46. Fundamentalism IS a mental disorder

It's a sort of displacement disorder where you claim all your actions are beyond your responsibility because they are in fact authorized by god, or one of the saints or prophets or whoever. From that point you feel that your god as authorized you - and only you - to "spread his word" and enforce this god's ideals - which, curiously, are alway identical to the ideals you already have. The idea that your reality is the only acceptable one and that all who disagree are evil and need to be dealt with, and further that by "dealing with them" you are only acting as the hand of a greater forcethat you cannot be held responsible for... And peopel are saying this isn't a mental illness?

Millions of people grow up in the same religious environment as fundamentalists, yet most manage to become normal, rational people. The fundamentalists are the ones that "don't fit" - something is broken in their head that makes them seek to transpose their identities to that of a god or figurehead who is, of course, perfect and flawless and always right.

Religion itself is not a mental illness. Billions manage to be both religious and as sane as anyone else.

[spanone]

47. Seems God's on Everybody's Side.

if you ask them.

[leftofthedial]

55. Oh my name it is nothin'

My age it means less . . .

[malaise]

62. I found Dan Abrams comments

on the programme beyond unhinged last night.

[entanglement]

65. What did he say?

[malaise]

67. He said that Christiane presented Muslims as victims

but then Dan always views life through pro Zionist eyes.

[entanglement]

69. Nasty, nasty