There's people being tortured in the U.S., but it's not adults. It's children.

[Danger Mouse]

And it's done in the name of 'therapy.'
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/school_of_shock.html
I happen to work with emotionally disturbed kids, the kind of kids that would end up at this school, and the thought of using these kinds of methods to 'treat' children horrifies me.
Basically, kids can receive shocks for aggressive behavior, or even non-aggressive behavior, such as cursing or getting out of their seat. Enforcing conformity and compliance through fear and pain. There are other, very effective methods for dealing with these sorts of behavior. They don't involve torture, fear, and intimidation.
We don't even treat the lowest criminals in our society in this manner, why are we allowing it to be done to children? It must not stand!
Please read the article, and spread the word. Places like this have NO place in America. My heart goes out to these poor children.
What can we do? Does anyone have any ideas? This really sickens and upsets me.
The children cannot advocate for themselves, and it seems like a lot of parents have signed off on this twisted excuse for 'therapy.' What kind of parent would let their child be subjected to that??
Anyway, if you're as angry and upset by this as I am, then let's think about what we can do to help these kids. Guantanamo Bay, right her in the Northeast!

[Danger Mouse]

1. Gah. Kicking it, because I want people to read the article.

[Posteritatis]

2. Notice that they actively refuse to *treat* any disorders, too

If they get someone who's bipolar or schizophrenic, they just let the illness degenerate, traumatizing them more and more as they do so. It's kind of telling in that article that it seems one of the big fears of the place is the kids organizing and revolting against them. I wouldn't feel much sympathy for anyone on the receiving end of that.

I'm surprised at how little attention this gets. This monstrosity's been around for more than twenty years.

[Danger Mouse]

6. Yeah. That sickens me, too. In our program, WE TREAT THE DAMN ILLNESS...

that's the best way. You help them overcome their problems as best you can, and give them some decent memories to go along with it. I hope the kids DO revolt and stand up for themselves. The climate of fear they must live in is horrible. :(

[Posteritatis]

25. Yeah; that kid with the "HELP US" sign...

The place is a walking cliche of everything people think contemporary psychology and psychiatry is about. That pisses me off, both because that cliche is an evil, vile, disgusting one, and because it encourages people to keep stigmatizing either the disorders (like the Rotenberg Center does) or people with those disorders who actually try to get real help (like people who read about this and think it's typical).

My little sister was diagnosed bipolar this summer, and has taken a greater than infinite amount of shit about it from her friends and not a few relatives, because of attitudes about that kind of thing that are broken enough without that blight encouraging people to believe in them. I came across the article you plugged about the place a few days ago and I've been livid since then.

What's more, is even the staff has that climate of fear. A lot of them deserve worse - I'd only douse some of those guys if they were on fire if I had a bucket of kerosene to do it - but I'd assume there's a lot who really truly want to help these kids, only to find they're stuck in an environment where they're not allowed to do it, or even talk about it. Getting punished for not torturing children? Good Christ.

[Danger Mouse]

36. Happens too often in our society. Mental illness as looked upon as a weakness...

and the mentally ill often cast by the wayside.
This place and its methods is a vile and disgusting mockery of psychology and psychiatry.

[Posteritatis]

42. Damn right on all counts

I actually did my history thesis a few years ago on attitudes towards mental health in the first half of the century. I probably could have gotten away with using this place as a primary source; nobody would have suspected it was contemporary.

My sister's actually getting treatment (and effective treatment, quickly - it usually takes awhile to find the right medication for someone with BP), and I'm really really relieved and grateful for that, but God am I ever pissed at the people who suggest that that's a sign of weakness and that she should stop taking them, or that she's less of a person, or or or.

Oy, I'm frothing a bit, aren't I. Well, I did say in another thread a few days ago that this is one of my Issues. ;)

[Danger Mouse]

52. That's part of the reason why I DESPISE Scientology and Tom Cruise.

They drone on endlessly about meds and psychiatrists and psychologists and have no clue WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Just trying to convince people to abandon potentially helpful medications and therapy for a pack of lies.
They should be ashamed of themselves, and Matthew Israel would be ashamed of himself, as well, if he had any shame.

[Mnemosyne]

48. I cannot express my rage at this moment , so will comment tomorrow. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

58. Interested in hearing what you have to say.

:pals:

[Mnemosyne]

91. I'm working on my reply. Didn't want you to think

I forgot about your post. :)

I'm still re-reading and researching. Back in next day or so. :hi:

[mzmolly]

83. Unbelievable.

:puke:

[Blashyrkh]

3. This is a low-level example of some stuff I was reading about creating disassociation in children.

It's horrible stuff. All designed to create a mental state/s that is/are inquestioning and easily manipulated.

[Danger Mouse]

17. Heh, oh I bet Bush LOVES this place.

Nothing like learnin' em when they're youngin's to respect AUTHORITAH!

[Blashyrkh]

60. What I was reading went far beyond that. But you're right.

It's the same with Television and the "Cult of Celebrity". You can make a society wide culture change if you start with the kids.

[Danger Mouse]

65. What exactly were they trying to do, according to the stuff you read?

:scared:

[Blashyrkh]

68. This tin foil hat land for most people here.

And I can't explain this is a completely coherent manner, as I don't understand all the underlying psychology.

Basically, "they" ("they" being the powers that be) have developed a mind control technique based on disassociation. By subjecting a subject to extreme torture and abuse, the brain creates several, distinct "alters" or personalities. One of these is the front "alter" and the others are created dependant on what the subject will be required to do.

The subject is....subjected to years of systematic torture and abuse, all designed at teaching disassociation. Some examples include being locked in cages ala battery hens; being forced to eat urine, faeces, blood and human remains; one specific example mentioned the subject being tied to a prisoner of sorts and then prisoner is beaten to death next to the subject, during which the subject is blamed for the prisoners death.

The technique works most effectively when the brain is still in a formative state, hence "they" use babies.

I believe the technique is sound, it certainly explains serial killers. Are you ready to believe your government has created an industry around this? That every public shooting was carried out by a government-owned, mind controlled slave?

Send a PM if you want a copy of what I've been reading.

[Danger Mouse]

69. That is pretty tin-foily.

But intriguing, nonetheless.

[bighughdiehl]

79. Yep

Actually "dissociation" technology is 2000 years old. Fundies do it to their kids, and have for 2000 years. Read the New Testament. "God loves you but he'll burn you in hell if you don't love him back." HAS TO HAVE BEEN DESIGNED TO FOSTER DISSOCIATION-there is no other explanation for where this incoherent christian concept came from. Electric shock is just a high tech twist. Ingesting feces, blood , urine is just.....a WEIRD S&M twist.

[Blashyrkh]

85. It's just another "technique".

My impression is that the "treatment" is designed dependant on what characteristics the "alter" will have/need.

[Matariki]

86. why woudl the government want to create serial killers?

yeah. it's tin-foilish.

[KaptBunnyPants]

71. Read "Smoke and Mirrors".

The Republican "treatment" center alliance of horror has been going on for a long time. Reagan was practically giving these sociopathic bastards medals for their efforts "curing" drug addicts.

[Posteritatis]

26. Now I'm wondering how many DID cases come out of that place. (nt)

[mzmolly]

84. A Dobson-esque technique.

One must break the spirit, so that the spirit of the Lord can enter..."

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/DobsonsDog.html

[SeattleGirl]

4. Oh my gawd, that's sickening!

WTF is the matter with people, that they would do shit like this to kids???

[Danger Mouse]

8. This twisted bastard Matthew Israel think he's HELPING kids this way.

And the methods he used to use were even worse! What sickens me even more is the fact that parents sued to prevent the state of New York from stopping the shocking. The state of New York cares about the children more than their own damn parents do. :puke:

[Cabcere]

5. K&R - that is sickening.

:scared: :( Not cool at all. :puke:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. My dear Elrond Hubbard!

How horrifying....

Indeed...how many shocks can you administer to a child before you call it torture?:cry:

I cannot stand this...

It must be stopped...but how?

Exposure will help.......

Expose these sick fucks and they will dissolve like the toadstools they are...

K&R

[Danger Mouse]

11. And for talking back or speaking their mind!

Creating future Bush bots...compliance and conformity hard-wired into them along with a healthy fear of authority. Did you read how that one girl acted during her interview? Scared. Frigthened. Wanting to say more, but afraid to.
People need to know about this. IF WE CARE SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AT GUANTANAMO BAY, WE SHOULD CARE JUST AS MUCH ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING TO CHILDREN RIGHT HERE IN THE U.S.!

[Posteritatis]

27. The article suggests 5,000 shocks isn't enough. Grr. (nt)

[LostinVA]

9. There's a lot of fucked-up behavioral modification "schools" (and camps) out there

I highly recommend the books "Help at any Cost" and "Boot Camp," to anyone that wants to learn about the abuses American citizens can be put through.

What's even sicker is having people on here DEFENDING these sorts of places, in my previous threads on it.

[Danger Mouse]

13. Well, as I said, I work with ED kids...and the thought of this kind of treatment sickens me.

Tell me what assholes are defending this perverted shit in a thread and I'll be there quicker than Gonzo forgets things.

[Posteritatis]

28. Look in the article's comments - Israel himself is in them. (nt)

[Danger Mouse]

32. I don't know if I want to.

The man makes me want to vomit. :puke:

[Posteritatis]

33. One of the lawyers who sued the place is there too; it's worth a glance. (nt)

[Danger Mouse]

44. A lot of angry parents there supporting the school.

What do you make of their PoVs?

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. I work with these kids too

And what this asshole is doing is not helping them, but making them conform to a norm that someone else is imposing on them. I am completely understanding of making these kids learn to fit in somehow. But electric shocks? Didn't the Nazis do crap like this?

I have had success with positive reinforcement and consistency. A structured, predictable and positive environment works most of the time. It takes a long time and we have to be patient.

And I don't care if this kind of treatment eliminates all negative behavior 100% of the time, it's still wrong.

[Danger Mouse]

50. Exactly. It's not easy work, but it is DO-ABLE work.

Sometimes it seems like an uphill battle, but bit by bit, you can make real progress with patience and dedication.
Or you can just torture them.

[Posteritatis]

66. It's a pretty abnormal norm, at that

And I don't care if this kind of treatment eliminates all negative behavior 100% of the time, it's still wrong.

Not only that, but it very clearly doesn't work. They've had people trapped there for thirty years now. Not only is it evil, it's ineffective.

Thanks, by the way, for being antipodal to these guys.

[Danger Mouse]

67. Not only of that, but Dr. Israel doesn't submit his work to peer review...

and we lack reliable statistics on how effective his 'methods' really are.
It's the perfect pack of lies. :puke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. They bring disgrace to an honorable profession

A profession I chose proudly. I condemn these torturers.

[porphyrian]

10. "...autistic, mentally retarded, and emotionally troubled kids," no less.

That's so fucked up.

[Danger Mouse]

15. Yup. Shocking the shit out of them...

and making them 'better'

[porphyrian]

18. Do people lack a sense of horror, or does the amount of it flip a breaker switch in them or what?

I can't believe the shit that's going on today.

[Danger Mouse]

21. Ever hear about the Milgram experiment?

It's surprisingly easy to push someone over to the dark side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
What disturbs me far more are the parents willing to go along with it, and a public that doesn't seem to care.
Time to wake people up.

[porphyrian]

38. The name didn't ring a bell, but I remember it now.

It is past time to wake people up.

[Danger Mouse]

59. Does Ted Kennedy know about this? If not, he should.

And hopefully, he would care about it.

[BlackVelvet04]

12. Huh????

"Since Evelyn Nicholson filed her lawsuit in 2006, the Rotenberg Center has faced a new wave of criticism and controversy. (See "Nagging? Zap. Swearing? Zap," page 41.) And again, the facility has relied heavily on the testimonials of parents like Louisa Goldberg and Marguerite Famolare to defend itself."

So it's not child abuse because the parents agree to it?

[Danger Mouse]

14. The part about New York and the parents really sickened me.

So the parents want to be complicit in it, but I want no part of it, and I don't want it in my country.
The kids need HELP and COMPASSION and what they are getting instead is fear and pain :cry: and absolutely NO help from their parents.

[BlackVelvet04]

16. If it were shocks being delivered to

pitt bulls there would be an outpouring of outrage.

[Danger Mouse]

19. Don't go there, LOL...

but you are right. If this were being done to animals, people would be frothing at the mouth. Apparently, since it's just CHILDREN, it's okay.
They're being treated worse than our most hardened, depraved criminals, but what's the big deal, right?

[BlackVelvet04]

24. Sorry......

I couldn't control myself. Glad I'm not hooked up to one of those electrodes.

[LostinVA]

20. I think the only reason why there isn't an outpouring of outrage is

most people are absolutely unaware of what's going on. Of course, there are some who will defend whatever parents want to do to their children.

[Danger Mouse]

23. I think you're largely right about that.

That's why I want to create awareness. On DU. Uhm. I think maybe in my community as well. I'll have to think about this...

[BlackVelvet04]

29. as of right now

there are 234 views, 26 replies and 9 recommendations. Seems a lot of people aren't interested.

[Danger Mouse]

30. That makes me sad. I wonder why.

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

31. To be fair, it's midnight on a weeknight. (nt)

[BlackVelvet04]

35. If you have time to view a thread,

doesn't it seem reasonable that you have a second to recommend or reply?

[Posteritatis]

40. I've skimmed enough of 'em, too deep in "braaaaainz.." mode to reply coherently.. (nt)

[BlackVelvet04]

34. I'm not sure.....

maybe it seems distant somehow....I know there are a good many childless people on D.U. (including myself). Maybe outrage exhaustion? I don't have a good explanation.

[LostinVA]

37. Eh -- I read lots of threads and very, very rarely recommend

And only post, if I feel I have something to really add (or disagree with), so I wouldn't go by numbers alone.

[BlackVelvet04]

41. I only recommend threads that are truly

informational.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

22. There are a lot of control freaks in the world

And some of them end up being parents...

The single most important thing to a control freak is compliance on the part of anyone they consider to be a "subordinate".

If the child does not comply with their wishes, then in their mind anything done to ensure compliance is automatically a good thing.

The libertarian in me and the leftist in me are often at odds with each other.

The leftist sort of wishes we had parenting licenses and that everyone desiring to become a parent should go through a strict training regimen.

The libertarian is aghast at such a freedom destroying idea.

[fizzgig]

39. i am in absolute shock

just speechless...appalled, sickened, saddened...and yes, outraged

i don't know anything about working with autistic children or children with extreme developmental disabilities, but i can't imagine that there is not a more civilized way to control self-injurious behavior.

my heart broke when Marguerite Famolare said "It's made him a human being, a civilized human being."

i can't fathom the pain these parents go through nor can i imagine getting to a place where i'd come to a last resort such as this school but have these parents ever experienced the shocks themselves? the white noise helmet?

but as for treating add/adhd, bipolar or ptsd with this shock therapy? that in unconscionable. do we live in the fucking dark ages? isolating these kids, prohibiting them from speaking to others, taking away student/teacher interaction...how are we teaching them, giving them the tools they will need to function in society? what is this school creating? this is outright abuse, not treatment.

i have no solutions or suggestions, but it seems the cabal that matt israel has built behind him will fight to the end for this school and for his barbaric methods. i am not saying that change is not possible, but i cannot see a way to affect change.

and again, honey, let me tell you how much i admire the work that you do. i am in awe of your patience and compassion

[Danger Mouse]

45. Exactly! What is this doing for high-functioning children??

Ugh. :puke:
Thank you for your support, as always, my love.

[fizzgig]

47. i think i've told you this

i threw tantrums a lot as a child...i've engaged in some measure of self-injurious behavior in the past. i can't imagine what this would have done to me

[Danger Mouse]

49. I doubt you and I would be talking with each other right now.

I just can't imagine... :cry:

[laylah]

72. I cannot start my day

at 2:30 am, reading this article; however, I will when I get home. From the comments here, it sounds very twisted and devastating.

Thanks for the heads up. I :loveya: my girl.

[bobthedrummer]

43. There were many prominent pioneers from related fields of psychology

that have been mentioned in the literature of black budget funded "research projects" at various institutions. The University of Wisconsin-Madison is one example.

The US biological weapons programs that saw the conversion of Fort Detrick into one facility of the US biological warfare community originated after George A. Merck made personal appeals to UW bacteriologists Edwin Fred and Ira Baldwin, Baldwin went on to transform Fort Detrick.

Ira Baldwin had an outstanding student, Frank Olson, and Baldwin influenced Olson to join in the "research" at Fort Detrick.

There were others at UW-Madison like primate researcher Harry Harlow, personality theorist Abraham Maslow and MK ULTRA's Louis Jolyon West that pioneered some of the things mentioned in the Mother Jones article.

Here's a post (from an informative active parent thread) that discusses some of this black budget funded "research" associated with these prominent individuals from UW-Madison.

"Wisconsin and some black operations" (posted 7-28-2007)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=186x21683#21699

[Beausoir]

51. I remember a story about a poor little girl who was rolled up in a carpet to "treat" her problems.

It haunts me to this day.

The poor child died....in that roll of carpeting. At her "therapist's" office. The child begged and pleaded to be let out. She defecated and vomited on herself. And no one let her out.

There is nothing wrong with children except what adults do to them.

[Danger Mouse]

53. Another heartwarming story...

at one facility, a girl who was new at the place, was carrying something with her to dinner. Staff demanded to see what it was, she wouldn't let them see it. The staff escalated the situation into a hold (a physical restraint) and the girl died.
What was she carrying? A picture of her family.
:cry:

[Beausoir]

55. You are breaking my heart.

[Danger Mouse]

56. This article broke my heart.

So that would make two of us. :hug:

[bridgit]

54. that's not right, children can harbor hosts of fears within them...

occurring 'naturally' inside their heads i.e. unexplained life experience, insecurities, or at the hands of other children more frightful still; how are they to move beyond those fears being subjugated by adults all about them who are themselves living in states of brittle fear & intransigence

[Danger Mouse]

57. The adults are set up as grim authority figures...

any signs of humanity between them is forbidden.
Grim, grey authority figures that can cause pain anytime they choose.
Sounds like a very healthy environment to me!

[Matariki]

61. This reads like pornography. And I don't mean the good kind.

The directors and owners of that facility are seriously messed up perverts. It's NOT therapy, it's unconsensual S&M. It's pedophilia without the 'philia'.

Bastards. I hope they're sued out of existence.

[Danger Mouse]

62. Did you read the comments section? Warped parents that are on board with this!

It's all so disgusting and lurid.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. Here's one.

Disgusting? Yes. Lurid? Yes. Irrational? Not to me.

REGARDING A DISTORTED PIECE OF WRITING AND OVERT OMISSION OF FACTS, CLEARLY BIASED TO SENSATIONALIZE FOR PERSONAL PROFIT AND GAIN — WITHOUT REGARD TO THE FAMILIES WHO GIVE OF THEIR LIVES, AND TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO GIVE OF THEIR HEART, TO CARE FOR THESE VERY SPECIAL NEEDS HANDICAPPED CHILDREN. I am a speech and language pathologist and audiologist who entered my profession before the birth of my handicapped identical twin nephews Matthew and Stuart, and have worked more than 30 years with special needs children and adults. We must not dilute the issue. We must be certain that a given treatment of last resort for a given condition is made available to those identified who require it. In the case of a self-mutilating, self-blinding, child with a compulsive, self injurious behavior--SIB as it is known in the medical community—where all other interventions have failed (medical, behavioral, chemical, physical, etc.) we must utilize the treatment of last resort. We cannot allow that child to blind himself, cannibalize his own body parts, or excoriate himself to death. I know of no one who has worked with my sister’s identical twin sons Matthew and Stuart, or has known the inexhaustible sufferings of our family, that has voiced opposition to the use of aversive interventions -- the only therapy that has kept my nephew Matthew alive. On the contrary, they emphatically supported these interventions. There are syndromes in which an individual will compulsively eat off their own fingers (Lesch-Nyhan syndrome for example) — and even when restrained they will chew off their own lips, rip out their own fingernails or even pull their own intestines out of their rectum. The professional nomenclature defines stereotypic movement disorder with the sub-class of severe self-injurious behavior (SIB), obsessive-compulsive behavior, and oppositional defiant disorder. Although not commonly known to the general public, there is legitimate, documented, unbiased, medical information available about these conditions and syndromes and their co-morbidity. Some individuals with these rare, but known conditions, like my identical twin nephews Matthew and Stuart, will engage in acts so horrific they are incomprehensive to people like ourselves. Repeatedly, my nephew Matthew smashed his head into sharp pointed or spiked objects, and finally, strong enough at the age of 16 years, he successfully impaled his head on a sharp point and split it open—necessitating a 5-1/2 months hospital stay at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. He was kept barely conscious on multiple drugs and guarded 24 hours a day one-to-one, and yet he re-split his head smashing it directly on the wound and requiring re-suturing. He managed to run into the isolation room of a patient with a deadly contagious disease. And a teacher sent to his room refused to return after just one brief interaction with him—when he grabbed her head and attempted to slam it into the corner of a wall. Although he could be discharged after surgery to repair the gaping hole in his head, no one would take him in fear of his self-mutilating and deadly behaviors, and he languished in Lenox Hill Hospital those many months. Matthew had no education—he had no life. On the contrary, the adverse effects of the psychotropic medications he was forced to take—the writhing movements that he endured—distorting his mouth, face, body, and limb, caused him to become completely unintelligible. He had been a verbal child, but for years he could not tell us his pain as the drug-induced dyskenias contorted his mouth and face. Our family members watched his tortured body and suffered with him. All of us in this family have traveled the agonizing course of waiting every moment of the day and night for one of my sister Lorraine’s, tormented and frantic telephone calls. As a professional and academician who has worked with special needs individuals more that 30 years, rarely have I encountered such monstrous self-mutilation, debilitation and suffering at one’s own hands —in the educational or medical arena. Yet there is an intervention, a two second surface skin shock inhibits the behavior, and reverses years of physical and mental damage, destruction and self-mutilation. Matthew entered Judge Rotenberg Center in Massachusetts where such intervention is utilized to save a child from chewing off their own fingers or tongue, or blinding or excoriating themselves to death, a “treatment of last resort” when all other interventions have failed. The families of our children may, for decades night and day experience the fear of their child’s torment—and the fear of their child’s death—a slow and tortured death by self-mutilation like J.V., or an immediate death by riding a bicycle into a moving truck like K.B. Fear through the night and every waking moment of the sound of your child’s head crashing through a pane of glass, or in Matthew’s case—a sharp, pointed spike-like projection. It is a matter of public record that J.V. (whose obituary appeared in the New York Times) and K. B. are two children who died when they were withdrawn from this type of therapeutic intervention. K. B. was returned to a New York State facility and drove his bicycle off the grounds into the back of a moving vehicle. J. V. compulsively ripped his flesh to the bone losing the use of his legs and confined to a wheelchair the last year of his life, when his infections could no longer be medically controlled, as the New York Times reported it, he died at the age of about 25. If the therapy is not available to those who desperately need it, others will die just like they did. No one would take Matthew until he was accepted at Judge Rotenberg Center (JRC) where he now resides. When all other treatments have failed, JRC uses the 2-second skin shock therapy, which Matthew has received to control his life-threatening, compulsive self-injurious behaviors (SIB) condition. Matthew has remained not only drug free in his current residence at JRC, he can speak clearly because his twisted and tormenting body movements gradually subsided as he was weaned from the drugs. He enjoys his hobbies, dinosaur collecting, birds, his telescope, reading, visits and vacations with his family. Matthew participates in life and tells us he is happy and safe. Stuart, Matthew’s identical twin, resides in a residence within New York State. Skin-shock therapy is legal in New York State, but it is unavailable, (which is why New York State sent Matthew to Judge Rotenberg Center in Massachusetts). Because of the medications Stuart is forced to take to "control" his behaviors, he new suffers some of the movement disorders his twin brother Matthew no longer has. These same "drug cocktails", none of which have been approved for use in these conditions, have not altered Stuart’s behaviors, but have only complicated them. Although never having been an epileptic, the medications have altered his brain so that his seizure threshold has been lowered and he has dropped unexpectedly in the New York City subway system -- we were called to an emergency room during a 12-inch snow storm recently because he was unconscious. Despite the medications, Stuart has had multiple and dangerous New York State approved aversive “take-down” procedures. He has been handcuffed and removed from his residence by the police, and has had 5 emergency psychiatric hospitalizations in the past few years. On one occasion he attempted to hold someone's hand over an open flame--almost setting the two of them on fire. We know Matthew is alive, enjoying his life, and safe. He tells us he is happy. We have pleaded with New York State officials to have Stuart placed with his brother at Judge Rotenberg Center. As of this writing Stuart is in an acute care psychiatric facility in New York for having run out into city street traffic because (as he tells us) a string on his favorite chair was displaced. We know Stuart can die at any time, and he tells us he is miserable. Stuart, like his brother Matthew, needs life-supporting skin shock therapy. We would like both boys to be with us. We would like both of them to have a safe and happy life. There is no issue. There is no controversy. No one who has not experienced or witnessed the "Sophie's Choice" brought upon our family should presume to decide for us, or to even consider withholding the only treatment that has kept one of our twins alive. Dr. Phyllis Klein 08/26/07

Posted by: Dr. Phyllis Klein onAugust 26, 2007 7:49:52 PM

[The Vinyl Ripper]

92. That woman is a phd?

That's one of the most run on, worst written pieces of crap I've ever read..

[Danger Mouse]

93. Well, she claims to be one.

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

95. Diploma mill, maybe

I've got a modbit on a moderately high-traffic pagan forum, and run into lots of people throwing around fake credentials that they bought for a few dozen to a few thousand dollars from some unaccredited school-in-a-PO-box someplace.

Alternately, the poster's just lying and doesn't even have a fake doctorate...

[PDJane]

63. It's 1:24 am here,

and I don't think I'll be coherent. I'm outraged, for starters, but that's only the start of where I want to go with this.

Tomorrow, OK?

[Danger Mouse]

64. No probablem

I look forward to hearing your perspective.

[Dystopian]

70. Too horrific for words... k&r

peace~

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. As a parent of a child with Autism

I find the article to be glib.

I'm no supporter of the techniques used at the facility, but I also won't minimize the desperation which causes parents, educators and doctors to try really aggressive and marginal interventions.

Many of the self-injurious behavior that some people with Autism do are so severe as to be life threatening. If my only choices as a parent were to watch my son kill himself, or to try something radical...

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A107423

At the age of 2-and-a-half, when Blake had yet to begin talking, he was diagnosed with autism and mental retardation. Nothing had prepared Claire and Mark for a child who was so severely autistic, who lived such a separate life.

They had to watch Blake closely when he was outside to make sure he didn't pop cigarette butts, fire ants or broken glass into his mouth. They had to apologize to a geneticist after Blake grabbed the doctor's tie at his throat. They had to call physicians ahead of time to ask them to move the plants in the lobby so Blake wouldn't eat the leaves.

In elementary school, Blake was so disruptive and destructive that teachers had to strap him to a chair. At home, Claire and Mark had to dress their son in a leotard each day to prevent him from reaching into his diapers to eat his own feces. After he started to lurch at the steering wheel as they drove, they had to purchase a five-point harness to strap him to the car seat.

Because Blake had to be watched constantly, Claire and Mark learned to alternate nights at their daughter's school play or their son's basketball games. The attention Blake required meant less time for their other two children. "They understand why, but it's frustrating for them," Claire says.

[Danger Mouse]

76. Desparate they may be...

but I still can't support the use of such extreme measures.
And everything about Dr. Matthew Israel is extremely shady, creepy, and unsettling. I'm sorry, but any form of 'treatment' advocated by that man...ugh.
My biggest complaint, in any case, is the use of this treatment on NON-LIFE THREATENING BEHAVIORS.
They don't just do this to kids that are self-abusing. They do it to kids that curse, get up out of their seats, BASICALLY ANYTHING.
That's what disturbs me even more.

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. I don't disagree. The article certainly makes a good argument that it's overused. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

80. And the more high-functioning kids are aware enough to realize how capricious it is...

and learn to be afraid, deathly afraid.
The interviews mentioned in the article are positively chilling. The girl who had left the place STILL seemed afraid of the staff, and they hovered around her the whole time, as if to make sure they said exactly what they wanted her to say!
The fact that Dr. Israel refuses to subject his work to peer review, and that there are no reliable statistics from these places to determine how effective this 'treatment' actually IS, is all very suspicious. What's he trying to hide?

[Posteritatis]

87. I'm wondering if they're learning the opposite, actually..

The article mentioned the high-functioning kids were more likely to injure staff than themselves or other kids. Makes me wonder if they comprehend the place a little better and are trying to defend themselves sometimes.

[Danger Mouse]

77. Kick for the afternoon, in the hopes that more will read this.

And I'll kick again towards the evening.

[tnlefty]

81. I don't think that I can comment. I just saw this and I'm enraged!

I've been through some difficult times with my kids, though nothing that leads parents to consider this, but tough times, and I don't think that I could ever condone allowing someone to treat one of them in this way.

One of ours would get up during the early morning hours and engage in some very dangerous behaviors, but the child psychologist, psychiatrist and medication and behavior mod at home did bring him out of that phase and he's been fine for years now (crossing fingers). But I truly believe that any treatment like this would have rendered him unreachable and so very angry that he wouldn't be the thriving, happy teenager that he is now.

I just can't believe that parents approve of this and actually allow someone to do this to their children.

Thanks for working toward helping problematic kids in a much more humane way! :hi:

[mzmolly]

82. Horriffic.

"Roten" berg, an apt name for the institute.

Look at their "cool/colorful" website: http://www.judgerc.org/

[PDJane]

88. OK, I think I've gotten most of my thoughts in order.

I have read of Dr. Israel before; I had thought his "school" had simply faded into the sunset, and I'm actually flabbergasted that it hasn't.

The main problem with this kind of behaviour modification is not the just the pain, and it’s not the parents; it’s the fact that, demonstrably, it doesn’t work.

This is wrong on so many levels. Electric shock scrambles the nerve centers and can exacerbate the behaviour problems on a long-term basis. There are reasons this treatment is not used in reputable institutions. There are reasons that the manufacturer of the original device would not become involved in strengthening the shock; there is a great deal of research on the topic. It can create brain damage, permanently scrambling the memory and thought processes.

Logically, taking children who function poorly socially, telling them to teach themselves from lessons given by computer and isolating them further is not going to give them the tools they need to function in a social setting. You may be able to control their behaviour, yes, but you aren’t going to teach them to function. Shocking a child four or five thousand times in a twenty-four hour period is simply outrageous.

Shock can work as a control mechanism; it doesn’t actually fix what’s wrong with the child, and it’s sadistic. If you combine this treatment by isolating and controlling the staff that is supposed to teach these children, what can you accomplish? The staff are afraid and unhappy, the children are afraid and unhappy, and the only thing being done is padding the good doctor’s pocket and providing employment for the sadistic among us. It’s a sad, sick and sorry institution, and the methods are beyond questionable to despicable.

I also wonder, quite honestly, how many of these children are able to function sexually without giving or receiving pain; this kind of treatment tends to produce perversity. Since I have a mind that asks curious questions, I tend to wonder who is benefiting from this, since it’s demonstrably not the children.

Yes, I have wondered before if the CIA has a hand in some of these schools and their behaviour modification techniques; this administration seems to have revived some of the more despicable methods of previous administrations!

And yes, there is also a great deal of reading material on multiple personalities and the dissassociation involved. I have met at least one person like this, the product of a lack of maternal instincts. It's not pretty. I have also read case histories as a function of my employment. It always amazes me what kind of new and innovative things people can dream of doing to one another and to their children. I sometimes wonder that any of these children survive; many don't.

Dr. Israel has his own little concentration camp scam going. It’s a personal opinion that the man should be put under psychiatric observation and assessment himself, possibly to determine the charges he should be tried upon!

[Danger Mouse]

89. I definitely agree that the man is scum and should be in jail

A sadist who feeds off of desparate parents and other sadists looking for work.
This place needs to be shut down...but how?

[PDJane]

90. I don't know.

I do think that getting some more reputable and generous psychiatrists, the ones who do deal with the kinds of problems these children have, to submit an amicus brief to the court in the upcoming case would be a good start.

Getting video of some of the long-term inhabitants of the "school" might assist these folks as well.

I don't know what the mechanisms are for getting to a school of this kind there.

[Danger Mouse]

94. Yeah.

Hmmm.
Maybe some other DUer's would know.