Ok, Larry, let's pretend you really aren't gay

[proud2BlibKansan]

It really doesn't matter to me if you are or aren't gay. No big deal since I don't believe in judging people based on their sexuality. So if you don't want to be gay, fine. Stay in the closet. I don't care.

But have you considered that the homophobic attitudes your republican party embraces actually contributed to what happened to you in that restroom? If you all hadn't crammed anti-gay legislation and anti-gay 'family values' upon this country, whatever you did in that restroom would be perfectly acceptable in this country. Hell you wouldn't even need to go to a public restroom to get laid if homosexuality was accepted in this country.

So shut the fuck up, Larry. Even if you aren't gay, you and your party are hateful homophobic assholes. And your hatred is coming back to bite you. In the foot. In a public restroom.

[rocktivity]

1. DING DING DING! Proud2Blib, you're our grand prize winner!

...(Y)ou wouldn't even need to go to a public restroom to get laid if homosexuality was accepted in this country.

Nor would you have had to define staring through a crack in a bathroom stall as adjusting your wedding ring, or your footsie-playing as a wide toilet-sitting stance. Nor would you have had to define reaching underneath a neighboring bathroom stall as trying to retrieve a piece of paper. Nor would you have had a newspaper harassing you into deciding to plead guilty--minus a lawyer--to "just make it go away." Nor would you have kept so quiet about it that it wasn't reported for nearly a month. Now you have to convince everyone that you're as innocent as you are lucid, and that your idea of fighting back is engaging in the very behavior you're being accused of.

:headbang:
rocknation

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. What do I win?

:evilgrin:

[rocktivity]

23. My unabashed admiration for the rest of the hour

and a copy of "The Wit And Wisdom of Dick Cheney" published by The World's Shortest Books Press.

:headbang:
rocknation

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. LOL

[BootinUp]

2. You are asking way too much of a repuke

to analyze his beliefs and actions in a logical manner.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. True

[sandnsea]

3. The word is Deviant - Sexual Deviant

Who cares what his sexual orientation is. If he were soliciting a woman to give him a blow job in a public bathroom - same difference.

Sexual Deviant.

Telling that he's more worried about being called gay than a perverted deviant.

[pnwmom]

5. He grew up in a time when the words "pervert" and "deviant"

were freely applied to gays in general. That's probably why they sound the same to him.

I think DU'ers who use those terms to apply to adult consensual sex should be aware that, historically, they have been used as synonyms for "homosexual." In view of that, I, personally, would limit their use to discussions of pedophilia or bestiality -- true perversions.

[sandnsea]

10. Sex in Public Bathrooms is Perverted

I used to know a heroin addict who gave $5 blow jobs under the table at local bars.

Sexual orientation isn't relevant.

Public sex is a deviant behavior.

[pnwmom]

11. When Gov. McGreevey came out, were you condemning him as perverted?

He acknowledged having had years of anonymous sex in public places, like many closeted gay men.

Or does that only go for Republicans?

[sandnsea]

12. Oh for sure, that is perverted

It isn't necessary to have sex in a toilet just because you're closeted. That's ridiculous. Public sex is chosen by people for reasons beyond being homosexual. Hookers take johns into alleys too, and nobody comments on their "hetero" sex. It isn't the issue. Hookers and public sex are.

[pnwmom]

14. There's something I don't think you've considered.

Craig is 62 years old. He's probably been cruising for anonymous sex for 40 years. When he began, there was practically nowhere in the country where a gay couple could live openly without harassment. Most gay men hid their orientation from everyone they knew -- even themselves. How were they to identify each other? Do you think it was easy? Most of the time they avoided "temptation" -- or at least tried to -- and so were able to keep the straight image of themselves. Other times, they slipped -- then quickly tried to forget again.

Think about it. Throughout the 60's and much of the 70's, when Craig was well into adulthood, the enlightened view of homosexuality was that it was a disease. To other people, and the criminal justice system, it was a crime. Gays were arrested even for having sex in their own homes!

So gay sex was furtive, and scary -- but compelling, if you were gay. Men like Craig who spent decades pursuing gay sex in this way -- and whose whole lives and careers are bound up in being straight -- don't easily jump out of the closet, or from the sad practices that at one time they felt forced into.

You're judging him by straight, middle class standards. To be fair, we should put his actions into a much broader context. He is a member of a persecuted minority who has taken society's hatred and internalized it.

Straight people who indulge in bathroom sex are gross. So are gay people, IMO, bathrooms are dirty, smelly places to have sex. But a 62 year old closeted man who does this is far more understandable to me.

[sandnsea]

15. I grew up in California

In the 60's and 70's. Never in my life was the "enlightened" view of homosexuality that it was a disease. That has always been the cuckoo wacka view of homosexuality.

The fact that he is 62 actually puts MORE accountability on him, he's old enough to exercise some restraint. The fact is, he doesn't care because he sees the whole thing as a vulgar sin - no matter where he has sex. Well too bad for him that he didn't get a clue when the Supreme Court ruled gay sex isn't a crime - but didn't rule that way on bathroom sex.

No. He knew what he was doing and he chose to do it. He had more options available to him than almost any other adult on the planet. He needed to use one of them.

[pnwmom]

30. Never in your life in California. Really? Guess you didn't know that

homosexuality was officially considered a disease by the American Psychiatric Association until 1973.

But he didn't grow up in California, he grew up in Idaho. And it wasn't in the 60's and 70's either. His culture was LIGHT YEARS away from yours. It still is. So is the culture of anyone living in a deeply red area.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. For the record, in California it was more accepted

in places like oh San Fran... but boy LAPD was famous, perhaps infamous, for their raids

And having lived in california for over twenty five years, I still remember the early days of the AIDS epidemic and the reactions in oh so very enlightenend San Fran... which were all but enlightened reactions.

Yep, the public health went after the bathrooms that were well known and drove the culture underground for a couple of years

And there are areas in this state that are not that far from Idaho when it comes to their attitudes regarding gays, gay sex and gay life style

So when people generalize, I just chuckle

And yes, his reaction and internalization of his life style and hate for that life style is a classic reaction to opresive culture

I might even compare him to a Kapo, who outdid the SS Guards in many camps at many a camp.

[sandnsea]

33. And it's 2007 now

60 year old men are old enough to make different choices. There is no excuse for this. It needs to stop.

[pnwmom]

34. So? Inside he's the damaged person that was formed in the 40's and 50's

in one of the reddest states in the country.

[sandnsea]

35. get therapy, grow up n/t

[pnwmom]

36. People in denial don't get therapy. n/t

[sandnsea]

37. They get arrested enough

They face the truth about themselves and change. Harmful consequences and people who don't enable harmful behaviors.

[pnwmom]

39. Hopefully that's what will happen to him.

But in the meantime, with all this talk of hypocrisy around here, I'm not going to add to it. If we're not going to condemn people like McGreevey and my father -- and the majority of gay men in my father's generation -- then we shouldn't be calling Craig a pervert either. They all grew up in the same damaging situation.

[malaise]

26. A simple question re your sentence

He is a member of a persecuted minority who has taken society's hatred and internalized it.


So why was he also an active persecutor with his so called family values stance?

Edit: Add

[pnwmom]

29. As I said, he's internalized it. He hates his own orientation,

and his own behavior. So he's denying it in himself AND trying to stamp it out in the world around him.

That's a very typical psychological reaction.

[barbtries]

40. i came of age in 1973

and have no recollection of believing that homosexuality was a disease. that is a gross overstatement imo

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

4. I'm not certain it was the foot that got bit....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. You're bad

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

6. LOL! They take "voting against their interests" to the absolute acme!

[Hepburn]

7. Great post! K&R n/t

[Skittles]

8. proud2Blib NAILS IT

:thumbsup:

[Gregorian]

9. And there you have it.

Nice one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Thank you.

[Major Hogwash]

13. The Idaho Statesman made him do it - plead guilty to something he "didn't do."

Oh me, oh my, I think Larry has just jumped off of the high dive into the biggest pool of shit he has ever seen!

By the way, does anyone remember Joe Piscopo doing his imitation of David Letterman on Saturday Night Live?
Gawd, he was funny.

[Philosoraptor]

18. That was the STUPIDEST apology presser EVER.

Even for a republican asshole, his arrogant attitude was a true classic of all time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Well at least he is probably not going to be re-elected.

One less rethug asshole to worry about.

[Philosoraptor]

21. Oh he's vaporized his career.

He's powdered toast man.

[Tesha]

24. There is an endless supply of Republican assholes.

> Well at least he is probably not going to be re-elected.
>
> One less rethug asshole to worry about.

There is an endless supply of Republican assholes.
He'll just be replaced by an upgraded, fully-compatible
model.

Tesha

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Yes, sadly, you are correct

[MelissaB]

25. Exactly!

:kick:

[BrainGlutton]

28. For some reason this story reminds me of an old SNL skit from the '70s.

We see several pairs of feet behind/below the stall doors in a public restroom. One foot starts tapping. Then the others start tapping, in unison, and we hear voices singing, "On the boardwalk, down by the seeeaaaa . . ."

[backscatter712]

32. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I keep thinking of Stewie performing My Left Foot...

♪My Left Foot ♪

♪Always been better then the right one ♪

♪ My left foot, ♪

♪ Always gets me where I need to go ♪

I'll start out easy

Little more complex