Random PTSD thoughts. Just fighting insomnia...

[No Passaran]

Hello everyone. For those of you who don't know me or don't remember me, you can read my other posts through my journal. I'm a soldier in the US Army. Very proud of it always will be. I was in combat for two years and now I'm on my way to being medically discharged. I'm frustrated right now. Tonight I'm sitting again alone in the dark watching Keith Olberman, taking pills that don't work for me anymore (Amerge, SeroQUEL, Paxil, Topomax and most of all Sonata). I have nightmares every night. Sometimes I can even feel and smell Baghdad, that smell of hair and skin on fire. My neck pain is getting worse and my headaches are so unbearable and if I didn't have a wife and two kids, I would have ended this long time ago. On top of that, I am also suffering from PTSD. Go figure. You mean all those dead children on the side of the road, a dead woman who looked like my mother caught in the wheels of a 113, my dead battle buddies now coming back to my mind every night. But it's been 4 years since the first time I entered Baghdad. Back then I had only a son (my daughter was born during my second tour of duty) and every night before a mission, I would write a letter, calling it "my last thoughts" and instructed my best friend to give it to my son when he's old enough to understand in case I came back with a flag. I told him to always be a a good person, to respect his mother even if she decides to remarry and not to be mad at these people even if they killed their father. For those of you interested enough in how my case is going, we medboard people are now backed up for 3 months at least so I'm expected to wear this uniform for six months or more.

Hey I read the post about that guy having 1000 posts and wanted everyone to share the history.

I joined sometimes after September 11. I saw that the world was going mad and for some reason I stumbled onto DU, this simple forum. Created my name after some amateur wrestler that I idolized and posted a hundred posts. Then I was off to Iraq and Iraq again. I didn't post but I read. I read everything and at one point in 2004 after GWB won, I was just disgusted with the politics all together and left it all behind. But I couldn't stay gone, not when you were being attacked as anti-troops and unpatriotic. I changed my name in that mass "amnesty" and now would like to change it again because I am not in Georgia anymore so the name does not fit (Skinner help me out here) I knew plenty of you that had brothers, sons, friends die in Iraq and you didn't deserve to be called those names. So I came out with my first Journal post to dispel this myth about democrats, liberals, military and PTSD. Oh yes, it's all real and it's coming home now.

I'm watching the President talking about Iran. I feel like I'm back on Camp New York in Kuwait listening to him in a chow hall tent. It's deja vu all over again.

I hope you understand my rumblings. I'm just frustrated and you give me strength. I have a busy month ahead of me: 2 shrink visits per week, 1 pain management visit per week, 1 neurologist visit per week. Then I get home like a zombie. Rinse and repeat.
Thanks,
Desert Rogues

[terisan]

1. Hey GA Democrat. I admire the fact you can watch GW. I haven't been able to.

What part of GA are you in?

[No Passaran]

2. I'm not anymore

I was in Savannah

[SeattleGirl]

3. Thank you, GA Democrat

Thank you for your service, and thank you for holding on.

[merh]

4. I am glad you find some comfort posting here

it has been a godsend for many.

Sending out my most grateful and gracious good wishes for your improved health.

May they find something that helps you rest.

thank you for your service and for posting here. :hug:

God bless you and yours. :grouphug:

[Swamp Rat]

5. .

:hug:

I never served in the military, so my life experience is different than yours. Nevertheless, try doing some type of art. It helps me excise the demons, and pass the time when I cannot sleep.

[AZBlue]

6. You have my admiration, respect and support!

Vent here all you want - and let us know if there's anything we can do to help.

:hug:

[DemBones DemBones]

7. I hope your PTSD and other injuries are keeping you stateside for good

until your discharge. Is that the case?

Keep on keeping on. Not only do your wife and kids need you, you deserve to have a good life again. It sounds like you need better pain meds for your headache and neck pain. Most people with chronic pain need more meds than most doctors will give them. I have chronic pain and am lucky to have a doctor who does treat my pain with more than NSAIDs. The pain meds contribute to the extreme fatigue that's part of my condition, though, but it beats being in pain all the time. My experience with PTSD is that it takes time to heal but it does heal. Yours is so new that it's overwhelming, I know. How long have you been stateside again?

I'll talk to you more after I read your journal.

[No Passaran]

9. Yeah they gave me a Permanent profile. No more Iraq for me.

I'm just on cocktail after cocktail. Two MDs fighting over whose meds will work better. They claim this is the strongest sleeping pill on the market. I take a double dose and I'm still typing away hours later. At least I'm not in danger of having MS anymore. That was good news after my last MRI showed no signs. Yet!

[DemBones DemBones]

13. I'm going to PM you. . .

[Colorado Progressive]

8. As a mother and daughter of a vietnam vet...thank you and so sorry....

I hope you find peace, and can remove those ugly images somehow. I hope you appreciate every second you spend with your children. And I hope this country never undergoes another war like this. Peace and love.

edit: meaning that I am a mother, and that my father was a vietnam vet, not a mother of a vietnam vet

[No Passaran]

10. Thank you

I don't spend much time with them. They're moving on and I'm stuck it seems. Did you love your father even after all the issues?

[BlooInBloo]

11. :) Take care of yourself....

... Oddly enough, the first time PTSD as a concept really clicked in my head was in Airplane! ("Over Machu Pichu?" "I'll never get over Machu Pichu"). Even though it's comedy, the kernel of truth upon which it's based is similar.

[Hoof Hearted]

12. My dad woke up screaming at least once a month through my whole childhood.

He took pictures from inside the remains of Hitler's "haus wachenfeld", he cleaned up two concentration camps. He brought back piles of patches torn from the uniforms of SS, most of them stained darkly, and officers guns.

He never could talk about it beyond the kinds of things you have said just here, and I know there is so much more.

Before Mom and me, there was another wife, another little girl. He came home to find another man's boots under his bed. Do whatever you must to keep your family. My first instinct is to tell you to get the fuck away from the military health "care" system as soon as possible. I think they're more interested now than they ever have been in CYA, as in their ass, not yours. You or your wife should shop for and take ANY job with decent insurance. Look at any position in a hospital first, they usually have the best benefits.

I've dealt myself with insomnia, and REM-dep. REM-dep is why falling asleep is so terrifying right now but at the same time craved, and the source of some of those "outside" feelings in the middle of the day. I hallucinated all kinds of shit when I was going through the worst. I haven't been in combat, but if you need someone to talk to I'm totally here, just PM me and I'll give you my email and cell.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Hang in there

What I can advise you is to find a VET group and do the group therapy

It will not make the PTSD disapear, but it will help you deal with it

[Control-Z]

15. Take all the help you can get.

No one deserves to live with the horrible images you do. I hope they fade soon. I hope the headaches and neck pain is relieved soon too. Hang on to your loved ones. Hang on to us. We'll help get you through this.

I'm sorry.

[Tsiyu]

16. You are beloved

Don't ever forget that part of life.

Maybe you can make yourself a safe, quiet place away from it all, someplace you can vent. I am so sorry about the hell of your nightmares and the way you can't just enjoy life the way you did before. I hope it gets better.

You got a really raw deal from the greedy warmongers.

Thanks for being part of this place, no matter what you call yourself next :hi: And thank you for having our back here at DU














:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

17. Big hugs GA

:grouphug:

[bonito]

18. Take this

:hug: It can go far bro. Peace

[orleans]

19. i don't really know what i can say that will offer you any comfort.

i'm sorry you went through what you did.
i'm sorry you are going through what you're going through.

i hope your pain lightens.

i hope you are sleeping now.

and i wish you well.

[TygrBright]

20. Desert Rogues, you're in the hard place, but you're NOT alone...

...believe me, NOT alone.

There are many, many, service folk here on DU, and I am guessing there are plenty where you are in person, too. Find people who can listen, and talk all you can. "Talk" here, by writing, talk as much as she can handle it to your wife, talk to friends. Don't be afraid to ask if you can lay some heavy shit on them-- they'll say "no" if they can't handle it, and most can.

Even those of us who have not shared the horrors you've experienced, who've been spared that by the sacrifice of you and your comrades (you have my forever gratitude) can do our part by listening and caring, if you'll let us.

My esposo runs a treatment center that works with people who have multiple problems in addition to PTSD, some are chronic pain patients, some battling substance abuse issues, some have additional mental health diagnoses. Unfortunately, it's not a VA service so they aren't helping too many vets, but they have helped some 9/11 survivors as well as many others.

There are not many reliable, evidence-based protocols for treating PTSD, but two that seem to have some value are desensitization therapy and EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.) Look for the availability of those therapies in your area, if you can. The theory behind desensitization therapy is rather challenging: For many people it makes them hurt worse before they start getting better, but it is a good therapy for many people. Basically, it involves being in a controlled, safe setting, and re-living the most awful things you saw/did/experienced, with a therapeutic professional helping you. You do it enough to "desensitize" the memories, so that they lose some of their power to control/impact your physical functions like sleep, etc. (They never altogether lose their power to make you feel bad but you can deal with them better, basically.)

EMDR is similar, although the process is not well understood. It involves using a light bar to cue your eye movements, repetitively (sort of like doing 'sets' at the gym, except you're sitting comfortably with a trained professional operating the light bar and helping you.) The optic nerve seems to have many surprising connections/implications in memory processing and in some fashion (not yet very well understood,) controlled eye movements do have a desensitizing effect for some trauma survivors.

Those things can help you deal with some of the worst of the "head maggots" as one of his patients calls them. They should not cost a lot and if you look around you may be able to find someone who'll cut you a break on rates. They key is to know what you're looking for and make your commitment to the therapy clear.

Dealing with the other, physical side effects of the "head maggots" is another thing entirely. As far as anti-depressants and sleep medications go, they're not likely to be as effective for you as they are for someone whose mood or sleep problems aren't accompanied by the PTSD. That's frustrating but hang in there-- as you deal with the PTSD the other things will start working better and you'll also start needing them less. But it's a long, slow process. In the mean time, you can do a lot for yourself by eating as healthily as you can, taking many walks in the fresh air with relaxing music on your headphones (or nice outdoor sounds in your ears!) and using routine and discipline to fight those urges to give in and just brood or do nothing. Establish a firm, regular time for when you are going to take a morning shower, get dressed, and eat something healthy and yummy, no matter how you're feeling or how you slept. Establish one or two regular activities that can be "anchor points" to your day, like a walk at a regular time, or picking up the kids at school, etc. A regular evening routine is very helpful too, even if it doesn't lead to sleep. "Day closing" things like (for example) making the kids' lunches and putting them in the refrigerator, or laying out your clean clothes for tomorrow, or just walking the dog and closing the windows, followed by something relaxing--NOT television.

Don't laugh at this, but one thing that works very well for some people is to get some sophisticated-type coloring books and colorful markers or pencils and color a mandala or celtic knot or some kind of design like that. A not-too-gripping, but pleasant book, maybe something you read when you were younger and liked. Then an attempt, for an hour or half hour or whatever works best for you, at relaxing in the dark with breathing exercises or self-hypnosis relaxation. If that doesn't get you some sleep, repeat and/or vary with additional such activities.

The more faithfully you can make that kind of routine a habit, the more effective the other therapies will be for you. But don't beat yourself up if you can't do it all at once. Just work it in a little at a time.

It's a very long process but it CAN work. You CAN wake up, someday, from a refreshing sleep and think about ordinary stuff and get something you like to do, done. The ghosts will always be there but they do fade, and you can reclaim your life.

Keep us posted. I'll put you on my Journals list and be looking to hear more about how you're doing. And I'll be holding you, and all your comrades who've shared that horror, in the Light.

respectfully,
Bright

[DemBones DemBones]

21. Great post, Bright. Very interesting about EMDR.

I have several chronic conditions causing pain and fatigue plus PTSD and have a lot of difficulty with sleep. Like it's 4:00 a.m. and I'm not really sleepy. Typically, I can sleep better in the day than at night. Will look into EMDR.

There are some great mandala coloring books for adults, produced by an art therapist, Susanne F. Fincher, who also wrote a fascinating book about mandalas; their history, Jung's use of them, symbols commonly used in mandalas, how to interpret the mandalas you draw, etc. I met her years ago at a retreat we were each attending. She's a very nice person and we had some good conversations so naturally I ordered her book about mandalas, which seems to be out of print, or at least Amazon is not showing it. I went to look up the exact title since most of my books are boxed up due to remodeling we're doing. Her book may be in my studio, actually, I know the coloring book is, but her name is enough for people to know to look for her books, and I should go to bed.

But I just have to add, if you get watercolor colored pencils to use for your mandalas, you might also want to get a plastic water "pen" that has a brush on one end. You fill the pen with water and it flows into the brush, which you use to go over the lines you've colored, et voila! "Water color painting." You can get these water pens (can't think if there's a brand name) at crafts stores like Michael's, Village Crafts. If they're not near the watercolor pencils, ask somebody. Of course you can also use a watercolor brush and dip it in water to go over the pencil and transform it into paint, but the "pen" is neater for fine lines, offers greater control.

[undergroundpanther]

29. My therapist has used emdr

One side effect, It made me really really dizzy,afterward.So I had to sit and wait for the spinning to stop before I went on. So it takes me longer to do emdr. She also does this tapping technique called EFT,I tap on myself,she does not do the tapping, she tells me where As I tap she does this Q&A thing at the same time..I think it's pretty effective too.

[DemBones DemBones]

33. Thanks for the info. I hope

you're getting help from these teachniques.

[tavalon]

49. I'm a medical professional so I expect good science behind my treatments

and I guess they do have some good science behind EMDR but when I first used this and the tapping, I couldn't find anything about it so I doubted it, but luckily EMDR and tapping don't require my belief, they still work and amazingly so. Before that therapy, I had night terrors and so many other PTSD symptoms. After, I have few symptoms and haven't had a single night terror since November of 2001. Also, it was surprisingly quick. I had years of therapy that didn't ameliorate many of the symptoms and within months of these therapies, the symptoms were gone. Amazing stuff. Mind you, I still have to maintain with self care such as not purposefully exposing myself to triggers (No movies with child abuse for instance - this I can do).

[Jim Warren]

22. Shout out to you dude

More rumblings if and when ya feel like it ok by me.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

23. Thanks for your service Desert Rogues..

It's a crying shame it had to be under such a pathetic CIC.

In all seriousness, see if you can get one of your doctors to prescribe Marinol for your sleep problems.

Marinol is synthetic THC and can be prescribed "off label", it might just help you relax enough to sleep. I know weed works for me and I'm a major insomniac, why else would I be up typing away at 4:30 am?

[blondie58]

35. yeah, and I know of MS patients who who ganja

for their pain. One guy claims that it doesn't make him high anymore, but it alleviates his pain.

[unhappycamper]

24. Welcome home, Brother.

Vets everywhere know what you are going thru. I'm not an expert, but I did 10 years in the green machine (63 ~ 73). Feel free to PM me anytime if you want to talk.

Class of Tet '68 & Cambodia '70

Peace.

uhc

[fed-up]

25. hugs to you Desert Rogues, my brother is a Gulf War I vet-now works tirelessly for vets

sometimes volunteer work can help you deal with depression, anxiety etc

helping others out, while seeing/meeting first hand so many others that care can be very uplifting


as far as chronic pain-I have learned to take just one hour at a time, and have learned to mostly feel good about whatever I can accomplish

I haven't read your journal, so don't know the causes of your neck pain, but do think that additional stress (PTSD) can't be good for it-I go to my local farmere's market and get a 10 minute massage once or twice a week when I can afford it-that along with at least 3 hours a week of massages from my BF have helped immensely with pain management

you are never alone-as DU is open 24/7

[EFerrari]

26. I'm glad you're here, GA Democrat.

DU has a great mental health support group. Check it out sometime.

K&R

[byronius]

27. I'm the guy with the 1000 posts. Thanks for your story.

I've reposted other stuff you've written before on personal blogs; very moving. Glad you're here.

Be Okay -- I'm wishing it on you.

[undergroundpanther]

28. Hugs to you

I got pstd too Mine isn't from wartime in the military.Mine is from growing up in a bad home/bad school/bad town abusive war zone. I know how you feel sorta/kinda. I have been on almost all those medications you listed in your OP.They didn't work that good for me either.I go to doctors for pain too because I wasd in a car accident a car hit me as I crossed the road,it damaged my spine and fractured my neck.I hate taking the pain meds they make me feel like crap, but they DO stop the pain, but what a shitty trade off tho.

I post here on DU sometimes at3,4, 5 am.Sometimes even after taking klonopin my body will not let me sleep at night So I come here hoping to get tired.I get tired when the sun is rising.
All I know is pstd sucks.It truly is a psychiatric injury, it is NO personality disorder.

I am so sad you were sent over Iraq.Our country has no business going over there to make war.. I worry about you and the others who signed up, and the Iraqis Afghanis and others who are innocent and will be traumatized too.You all are people and people can get wounded not just in body but in mind too.. War and child abuse, rape all of it is trauma all of it is so unspeakably sad. Pstd hurts and the pain pf it sometimes never goes away.Sometimes it can. I hope you got treatment for pstd as fast as possible.
My heart goes out to you.I wish you peace, I wish you good treatment and most of all I wish you wellness in any way you can get some of it.

Oh,yeah check out Du's mental illness support group. I think some of DU's finest post there,some of us there got pstd too.Regardless of the situation causing the suffering, all of the people in the DU MI support group are supportive good people.Go there if you think it could help you to talk to others who share similar things. I post there sometimes.

[motocicleta]

30. Keeping you in my heart and mind, DR

Thanks for checking in. Dark times we're living in, and very little darker than yours. Kiss your little ones for us (I have a four year old girl, born the day Baghdad 'fell', and a nine week old boy).

[Booster]

31. Desert Rogues, I wish I had the power to ease your mind and

give you the peace you deserve, but I don't. I'm old and haven't seen nor experienced anywhere near the ugliness you have, and I hope I never have to. Just know that you are blessed to have your kids and people who love you - we love you here at DU and hope for only the best for you. I salute you, soldier.:patriot:

[sce56]

32. Hey Dude hope you hurry up and get that promotion to PFC!

Proud F'ing Civilian!

Hang in there Bro and don't let it get to you I never did combat just natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes not Shrub created ones! My son went to Iraq twice also. He had the same MOS as I and we were REMF's! Not that it means that much to a support base under threat of mortar fire or suicide bomber.

The thing I want to tell you the most is You need to fight back don't let it get to you we all have had our problems some more deep than others look at Michal J Fox for one. Just always remember your children THEY NEED YOU the most so you have to be strong and hang in there for them and make them your source of pride and reason for pushing on with your pursuit of happiness. Don't let the devils in power win you can beat this thing it is up to you just be strong. If you feel the need to talk more pm me.


http://web.archive.org/web/20040630140148/

[puebloknot]

34. I remember you. You're a good writer, and very courageous to post...

...your thoughts here. You're in the company of people who *truly* feel for you and what you are enduring. As the daughter of a WWII infantryman, I can tell you that your children are going to be very proud of you all their lives. You may feel broken as a father, but I assure you that whatever you have to offer now will do just fine, and as you find your way to better health, you'll have more and more to give! Truly! :)

Stress manifests not just in the mind, but in the body, as I know you know. There are some therapies that could be helpful to you in helping to get this trauma out of your body: massage, polarity therapy, Reiki. There are practitioners of these healing arts who are very willing to work with returning vets on a pro bono basis (read that on a LOVE basis). You just need to seek them out, and find people who can help you without worrying about whether you can pay. "Ask, and ye shall receive."

We're all in this together. Ending this war and taking up life again is a sacred task.

[Locrian]

36. check your cortisol levels

Desert Rogues - hope I dont come across as a know it all or even suggest that I know what you have gone thru. But I'd be surprised as hell if you don't have some sort of adrenal fatigue from all the stress (both mental and physical).

PLEASE get them to check your cortisol levels (cortisol is what the adrenal gland makes). It's the "stress hormone" - without it you have no defense against any levels of stress, your blood/sugar salt/potasium levels go to hell. Its like being hung over forever.

Wishing you the best of luck.

[libodem]

37. God love ya brother

Keep fighting the good fight to keep your heart and home together. I admire your strength and courage.

[havocmom]

38. Thanks for posting. Some of us keep an eye out for you around here.

Know many here think of you often and send good energy your way.

Keep speaking out.

Keep in touch with the many DU vets who have probably sent you private messages. Know there are friends to lean on when you need to and willing people you can influence with your posts.

Keep in the fight to set America back on the high ground.

Thank you for your past service and the service you continue as you write to help us all understand things better.

We are here. It is likely anyone of us you reach out to would be there for you.

[Ariana Celeste]

39. Thanks for your service

What pain you must be going through. My heart goes out to you, I have family and a friend out there right now and I am so afraid for them. One day at a time, I hope that you receive the best care you can get, you deserve no less. :hug:

[villager]

40. Thank you for posting. May your country someday do right by you.

But *that* fight, I guess, is what brings us all here, eh?

Hang in there...

[Tesla]

41. Thank you for your service...

I will pray for you.

I am sorry you had to endure Iraq.

Thank you for being so brave.

[stillcool]

42. I look forward to reading your posts....

perspectives like yours are lost in the barrage of mis-information being spewed by those paid to say. The human experience related first hand, has changed my perception more than anything else.

[peacetalksforall]

43. I keep saying of course we support our troops - our troops are our

kids. I now want to say ... and our brothers. I pray you can get off the prescriptions. And more. I will never forget you.

[annabanana]

44. Too late for a "recommend" but this sure deserves some Kicks. .

I admire your tremendous courage in facing your troubles day after day. The strength you exibit in just getting the one foot in front of the other is inspiring.

Bless you Dear.

[Netbeavis]

45. It won't be easy

I was diagnosed with PTSD in 1997. It was some of the most painful experiences and episodes in my life. Drugs don't work. At least they didn't with me. I went cold turkey despite my doctor's advice.

I do not envy your position but as a PTSD survivor I can tell you that life does get better. You will be questioning yourself over and over again as to when, why and for how long this will go on. No one can say. The first key for me was to get away from the physical area that bothered me. Should be easy for you if you are in the US and you have visions of Iraq. The rest takes time. The dreaded words.

Since my diagnosis and struggle, I have been able to put forth and have a normal life. This year will be my 10th wedding aniversary. I have two wonderful kids and a decent job that pays the bills. My years of PTSD seem like its wasn't in this lifetime as it was so different then it is now. All I can say is hang on. It will be a rough ride, but it will come to an end.

I live in South Carolina now, so if you need to shout out and connect with some one who has been there and done that, you can reach out at any time.

Be well.

[Skittles]

46. keep fighting to get your life back GA

when you feel yourself giving over to despair think of your children. My dad took his life at age 50 and 22 years later I still cannot remember his life without remembering his death. Keep talking to us too.

[RainDog]

47. Something that works

Desert Rogues- I've also had to deal with some very traumatic experiences that caused memory loss and major anxiety, so I know some of what you're going through. But I also know I've never had the experience of combat. However, some things can work no matter what you're dealing with.

I found that yoga did great things for me. Your local YMCA probably has a beginner's class. You can adapt movements and postures to take physical problems into account. One of the best and easiest things to do is simply lie on the floor, breathe, and then tense muscles in diff. parts of your body and then relax them... put your concentration on this task or tensing and then relaxing...check your body and let it untense.

The breathing part has done wonders for me and others. Most Americans don't use all their lungs while breathing, so you need to consciously expand your abdomen, then diaphragm, then lungs. Exhale in the opposite way... lungs, diaphragm, abdomen. You can do this lying down. One simple way to help bring on sleep is to put your right hand over your heart while you breathe. think about feeling your heart beat and feeling the rise and fall of your upper body as you breathe in the way I mentioned before.

You actually change your brain waves by doing relaxation breathing. It can be so helpful for stress which can help with the body and head pain.

I'm just passing along something that has worked for me... I'm not a professional.

when doing yoga exercises -- they're done slowly, deliberately -- not like typical American exercise. going through the process of the exercise is what's important -- not whether you are a yoga master. Learn how to do the sun salutation. You go through a series of postures that help to de-stress your body and mind. Yoga also helps to teach you to focus your mind so that you can put certain thoughts out of your mind in order to relax.

I'm really no yoga master at all, but the time I have spent learning yoga poses and doing them has been truly beneficial. If you read up on the health benefits, these simple processes of breathing, postures and meditation can and do have amazing results, and it's free and all the chemicals that come from doing yoga are created by your own body. I don't say that to diss medication because I know that it can and does get people to a point where they can do things like...yoga. you can build upon the way you feel good after doing 30 minutes of yoga.

[Raster]

48. Kick it with tears rolling down my cheeks. How many lives are ruined because of the

neoCON, cheney/bush* insanity? My rational, logical mind does not believe in hell. My emotional mind fervently hopes there is so people like bush* and cheney* will spend an eternity of agony they so richly deserve.

on edit: Bless your heart GA Democrat. Know that there are MANY that empathize. We cannot undo what has been done, but we can damn well make sure it comes to an end and NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. And ANYONE in Congress has the fucking gall to whine about impeachment? Cowards and collaborators.

Wake up America!:kick:

[applegrove]

50. Talk to your doctor to balance your pills again. There are other drugs

out there. Sometimes it takes a while to get the right balance.