Larry Craig should pay his fine and forget about it

[cgrindley]

I don't think that people should be having sex in public toilets. It's easily worth a fine. If I were grand poobah, I'd set that fine at like 500 bucks or something. But really I don't give a shit beyond the fact that he did some gross thing in a public toilet.

I find myself agreeing at least half way with those people around here who constantly harp on the whole "founded by puritans" crap (untrue and stupid crap, by the way) whenever anything sexual makes it into the news. Really. Who gives a shit even if he was actually found sucking someone's bozak in a shitter? Pay the damn fine and go on.

Or has this idiot persecuted gay people in the past? Because otherwise, I really don't see what the big deal is. Or do Senators usually get flayed for relatively simple misdemeanors?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Larry Craig should resign in shame.

Oh, and he should stop being a bigot.

[Cha]

56. Damn Fucking Straight.

Fucking lyin' hypocrite. Oooops got busted for somethin' I've been settin' ma self up on a pedastal that I didn't doooooooooooooo and nobody else should dooooooooo it eitha. Fucking idiot.

[yardwork]

2. Yes, he has persecuted gays in the past. That's the whole point.

He voted to pass a constitutional amendment making gay marriage illegal. He voted against making attacks on gay people a hate crime. He's voted against gay rights every single chance he gets.

And how writes these stupid "public decency" laws? Republicans, that's who.

Senator Craig can forget about it when he resigns because of the disgraceful hypocrite he is. And we'll stop insisting that the Republicans apply the laws equally when they start applying laws equally.

[cgrindley]

6. Okay, hear me out

I'm all in favor of opening up marriage to everyone (although a much better solution would be to completely remove any reference to the religious rite of marriage from all local, state and federal laws). Actually, I take that back. I want to go to more proper gay marriages. Marriages for everyone.

But I'm not a big fan of hate speech and hate crime laws for a variety of reasons--none of which are worth getting into an argument about right now.

Could it be that he is genuinely opposed to gay marriage even though he's quite obviously bisexual? Could he also be against hate crime laws because of some base Libertarian philosophy? Could his opinions on the two issues be utterly unrelated?

Should we pity him for being a closeted gay man, who is driven to persecute other gay people out of some intolerable self-hate?

Are any actual gay people opposed to gay marriage? Opposed to hate crime legislation? I'm sure there must be a lot of gay people who think that sex in public toilets should be remain illegal.

To tell you the truth, I've been so busy this last week that I haven't had the time to study up on Larry Craig... is he just another evil asshole?


PS What would happen if Dan Savage got elected to congress and then was caught having sex with some woman in an airplane toilet? Would he have to resign or would people throw a parade?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. You Ignored The Part Where His Vote Indicated It's OK To Fire A Gay Person

Dan Savage is a gay columnist... I could give a rip if he had sex with a woman, but not in a public restroom that is presumably heavily travelled...

[cgrindley]

14. I didn't know about that vote

the guy is certainly an asshole.

PS but really should we feel sort of sorry for these closeted Republicans? can we turn them? should we?

PPS if one of these guys came clean and apologized and wanted to be like all progressive and shit, would anyone forgive them for their past bigotry?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Is Dan Savage a bigot against straight people?

Jiminy God!

[cgrindley]

15. Well, bizaro world hypothetical Congressman Dan Savage is (nt)

a militant anti-straight platform gets him elected to the house in 2012.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. How about we make him an anti-semite to boot?

We'll make Carrot Top, that rabid asian-bashing gang rapist, his running might.

Boy, I'll bet those hypocritical liberals won't be complaining then when they get caught committing insurance fraud.

WTF?

[cgrindley]

29. You're getting off track...

would a gay politician caught having straight sex get the same treatment as a straight politician having gay sex?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

That Is A Good Point

eom

[Kingshakabobo]

18. Maybe he is a bigot.

As are most "libertarians" opposed to hate crime legislation. They can't get past that the laws protect EVERYONE - why is that? They can't get past 200 years of jurisprudence where "mens rea" or "GUILTY MIND" is one of the foundations of criminal law - but try to add a little protection to 'the gays' and they scream "MIND CRIME" - why is that? They can't get past that "motivation" is taken in to consideration during charging and sentencing ALL THE TIME - but try to add a little protection to 'the gays' and they scream "MIND CRIME" - why is that?

Shove your republican, err, I mean, "libertarian" talking points.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. If he's a libertarian, why is he against gay marriage?

There's no "maybe" about it.

[cgrindley]

27. Well, wouldn't a real libertarian be against all marriage

because marriage is a religious institution and religion shouldn't have anything to do with government?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Well he's obviously not against straight marriage.

He's got a sham one.

[cgrindley]

41. Maybe no one's actually asked him (nt)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Maybe he's just a hypocritical bigot.

Nah, that's too obvious.

[cgrindley]

48. Yeah, way too obvious (nt)

[Kingshakabobo]

28. The "libertarian" wasn't aimed at Craig. n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

37. And my "maybe" was chocked full of sarcasm. n/t

[yardwork]

54. Craig is a bigoted asshole now revealed to be a hypocrite. I have no sympathy for him.

[yardwork]

55. Anyone who voted to amend the Constitution to criminalize gay marriage is a bigot

and an idiot.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Or has this idiot persecuted gay people in the past?

YES HE HAS

Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)


Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)

[cgrindley]

8. You cannot argue with the job discrimination vote in 1996

you can sort of make an argument about the others, but that one pretty much makes it clear that he's a first rate asshole.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I Can See The Arguments Re: Hate Speech

I can't justify denying gay folks jobs and marriage because they're gay...

[cgrindley]

16. I don't think the state should recognize anyone's marriage

marriage is a religious rite. To hell with religion. It should stay out of government. It should really be civil unions for all.

[saracat]

4. What the heck is wrong with you? It is NOT what he did that is the problem.

It is the fact that he indulges in a activities that he legislates against and would svagely punish others for! This idiot most certainly is the leader of the conservative faction of the GOP.He has voted against everything from gay rights to abortion. That is why this is an event. It is mentioned in ALL the news coverage of this!

[AlCzervik]

5. he lied under oath--is that enough of a crime for you?

he voted against hate crimes legislation that included protection for gay people, he has a shitty record on civil rights so he is a self admitted liar and now exposed a huge hypocrite.

[cgrindley]

11. When did he lie under oath?

The one really unforgivable thing I see in his record is the vote against job discrimination protection for gay people.

[AlCzervik]

17. ha already admitted he lied to the judge when he plead guilty in MN.

he said it yesterday. and that "Only one unforgivable thing"---thats a huge seismic thing.

[cgrindley]

22. Wow. That's almost a Catch-22

Either way, he's guilty of something. What's worse? Perjury or public nookie?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Public nookie?

He was secretly staring at somebody through the gaps of a stall.

Why are you bending over backwards to defend this guy?

[AlCzervik]

40. that's an excellent question.

[cgrindley]

42. Well, I'm defending him in that I don't see why anyone should care

about it that much except that a) it was kind of gross, and b) he was an asshole regarding his previous public views of gay rights.

[Toasterlad]

45. Are You For Real?

You do know that Idaho, the state he represents, is chock full of Mormons and other super-tolerant types who think gay people are EVIL? Why are you pretending not to understand what a big deal this is to him and his constituents? Is this just a way for you to say, "Hey, I'm so cool with homosexuality, I didn't even realize it could be an issue here!"? If so, nobody's really buying it.

[cgrindley]

47. Have you been to a gay bar in Utah or Idaho?

Those states are full of guys who are heavily in the closet. My wife lived in Salt Lake City in the 1990's (she was working on some dumb UFO show), and she said that the local gay bars were full of Mormon guys in hideous polyester suits.

I think that the closeted politician thing will eventually reach critical mass. We saw it here last year in Jersey, where the response was not that the dude was gay, but that he was an asshole for cheating on his wife. The same sort of situation should apply at least here at DU. Well, and we should go after him for his record on gay rights, but we should do that anyway...

[Toasterlad]

50. Jersey is Not Idaho.

70% of them voted to not only outlaw same-sex marriage, but to expressly forbid it in their state constitution. Even if the remaining 30% are all closeted gays, that is one SERIOUSLY homophobic state. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

[northzax]

19. well, he just said

on national television that the incident in the bathroom was a misunderstanding and that he did nothing he was accused of. But he plead guilty to doing things he 'knew, or should have known' were wrong. that is a sworn statement. so he either lied on TV last night (likely) or he lied to the court in Minneapolis.

[cgrindley]

26. Well, that's that then.

Pretty much leaves him without a legal leg to stand on.

[kanrok]

7. Actually, I care if he's getting a BJ in a public washroom

I use the bathrooms at airports, and so do my kids. If he needs to blow somebody, go at it, but do it in private.

[cgrindley]

13. No no I care too, but only just enough to keep it a relatively minor crime

no worse, really, than say going 40 mph over the speed limit on the interstate.

[KurtNYC]

10. who's side are you on? He should fight this thing for the next 18 months

Larry Craig should go to court on the lewd conduct charge and call that policeman a liar. And when the cop's partner gets up on the stand Craig should call him a liar, and when the dispatcher reads the record of what time he was taken into custody, craig should call him a liar. Then Criag should appeal the guilty verdict and ask for the 2nd trial to be televised during the GOP convention. He should retain his seat and run for re-election.

(why give him good advice?)

[cgrindley]

20. You're right... FIGHT ON, LARRY CRAIG, APPEAL THAT CONVICTION!

We all know that you're just being persecuted by the liberal media. You fight all the way to the Supreme Court. Make sure that you ask all of your Republican colleagues to testify for you...

[KurtNYC]

35. YES! Craig will need some of his colleagues to show up as character witnesses

Mark Foley, David Vitter, Ted Haggard, etc. Those guys are experts in matters like these.

[northzax]

21. funny, a $500 fine

is exactly what he has already paid. he plead guilty.

[cgrindley]

24. Then it's all squared away then.

So why is he having such a fit?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Because Folks Are Saying He's Gay

eom

[cgrindley]

34. Well, he's at least bisexual

Why the fuck is this idiot even bothering to deny it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Because He's Conflicted

eom

[oldcoot]

57. How long has he gotten away with this behavior?

I suspect that he has been doing this for so long that he never expected to get caught. If he had gotten caught, it was never reported by the "liberal media." Personally, I would not be surprised if he has used position in the U.S. Senate to get out of trouble.

He might be in for a rude awakening once he resigns to "spend more time with his family" and discovers that he no longer has his position to protect him.

[Liberal In Texas]

31. Another thread for the ignore pile. n/t

[cgrindley]

33. So why'd you post then?

that makes even less god damn sense than my OP.

[Spazito]

44. Yep, it's a good thing he didn't use a clothes line and defile the

view of his neighbors, that's tantamount to a hanging offense (pun intended) and you would not be so forgiving I bet, lol.

[Forkboy]

46. LOL

:)

[cgrindley]

49. Oh yeah... clotheslines are like 1000 times worse than cottaging

it's easy enough to learn where the local cottaging stops are and to simply avoid them. Clotheslines, on the other hand, are a continuously ugly blight on the neighborhood. That reminds me, I have to cut the lawn tomorrow.

[Spazito]

51. LOL, I see the clothesline fetish is still alive, was just wondering

:rofl:

[cgrindley]

53. It's an anti-fetish (nt)

[PBass]

52. Let the Idaho voters decide. Craig is not an important issue, like say

the Iraq crisis, the failure to rebuild the Gulf Coast, the rumors of an attack against Iran etc...

Let the voters of Idaho decide if Craig has lived up to his "Family Values" campaign rhetoric. I hope people like Craig and Vitter stick around for a long time, because it means that the GOP's bogus "family values" campaign slogan is off the table, indefinitely.