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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:27 AM
Original message
Want a Good Laugh? Read Linda Chavez defending Craig
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. I saw where she was going and stopped.
Blame the media. Yeah -- that's the ticket.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Every single comment so far has basically said "you are an idiot"
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Same here
And even if a Democratic Senator were caught in a similar manner, this would not be one who has made his career on "family values."

It is the hypocrisy of all of them, standing on a pedestal of "family values" while screwing around - with men and women.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. so, the media abuse Craig's privacy???!!



.........0
Home | Politics | Linda Chavez
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Abuse of Power
by Linda Chavez
Posted: 08/30/2007
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There is something more than a little bizarre with the latest Washington feeding frenzy over Sen. Larry Craig. Don't get me wrong. I think what Sen. Craig did in the men's bathroom in Minneapolis was gross and sleazy. But is it really worthy of the press attention it has received this week? I just can't imagine a Democratic member of Congress being subjected to the same treatment if the facts, as we know them so far, were identical.

Let's say that Senator X, a prominent Democrat, was alleged to have, on rare occasion, solicited homosexual acts in public places. He never touched anyone or exposed himself or did anything else overtly illegal or anti-social, but merely tried to engage other men he thought might be gay by making eye contact or through surreptitious hand signals or, as in Craig's case, toe-tapping.

There were never any complaints against Sen. X by heterosexual men who were offended by his overtures. And only one or two gay men had ever come forward to say he had engaged in consensual sex acts with Sen. X. Then, Sen. X gets arrested in what appears to be a questionable sting.


The sting goes down like this: Police officers are set up to hang around a public bathroom known to be a favorite cruising spot for gay men. Sen. X comes into the bathroom and then stands outside a stall occupied by one of the policemen, who is there to catch gay men.

According to the actual police report, Sen. X did not overtly solicit sex or make illegal sexual contact with the police officer but merely looked through the crack of an occupied stall from a distance of three feet, then entered an adjoining stall, tapped his toes a few times, and swiped his hand along the bottom of the bathroom stall divider three times.
Now this behavior might have been annoying, even offensive, if the man in the other stall were there attending to bodily functions. But he wasn't. He was a police officer who was there solely to catch homosexual men soliciting others for consensual sex.

If Democratic Sen. X's hypothetical arrest ever made it into the papers -- doubtful, unless the senator chose to make it public -- I suspect the tone of the coverage would be rather different than Sen. Craig's treatment.

I can just imagine the Washington Post inveighing against police entrapment and homophobia and demanding that the private sex lives of politicians remain private unless their behavior involved an abuse of their official duties.

Of course, it isn't just the media who are going after Sen. Craig. His fellow Republicans are piling on, calling for ethics investigations and, understandably, trying to distance themselves from him. Some are even asking him to resign. This has been a disaster for Republicans, whose base is far more concerned about morality and traditional values than are most Democrats. But this is all the more reason you might expect the press to be calling for a little perspective here.

A lot of people would consider what Sen. Craig did immoral. Others, especially gay activists and liberals, would consider him a hypocrite because he has voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage exclusively as the legal union of one man and one woman. But immorality and hypocrisy are hardly uncommon characteristics in Washington -- or most other places for that matter.

Sen. Craig's denial that he is gay or has ever engaged in homosexual acts enrages some gay rights militants. The issue was first raised some 25 years ago when Craig stood accused, along with several other members of Congress, of having sex with congressional pages, allegations that were subsequently withdrawn.

Sen. Craig would have been better advised to remain silent on his sex life, but the media hypocrisy in this affair is at least as troubling as Sen. Craig's.

On the one hand, the media generally regards sexual orientation as a private matter, moreover one that is morally neutral. But because Sen. Craig is a conservative, although not someone who has had a history of gay-bashing, the media have had no qualms about violating his privacy. Indeed, Craig's home newspaper, the Idaho Statesman, spent five months delving into the senator's sex life.

Sen. Craig's political career is probably over. The abuse of power, however, was not Sen. Craig's but the media's, who pick and choose whose privacy they will violate on a partisan basis.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It seems reporting on him pleading guilty to a crime violates his privacy, but
wiretapping citizens with no warrant, Craig's stance on personal matters, and even Craig peeking into occupied sdtalls does not.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Interesting thought experiment, Ms. Chavez
Let's try another:

Let's suppose that President X, a Democrat, is under constant investigation by an out-of-control Republican special prosecutor who keeps widening and widening his mandate thanks to the connivance of a friendly Republican judge who is on the payroll of right wing smear machine operators.

Wait, this isn't much of an experiment; it actually happened. So let me just say, Ms. Chavez, cram it.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Yes, Linda, the media really respected Bill Clinton's privacy..
didn't they? :eyes:
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. the librul media never attacks Democrats
yeah, that would be hilarious if it wasn't so glaringly false and the consequences not so insidious. This was also ironically funny

"I can just imagine the Washington Post inveighing against police entrapment and homophobia and demanding that the private sex lives of politicians remain private unless their behavior involved an abuse of their official duties."

One person I can remember insisting that his family life remain private is Giuliani. Also, I think it is rightwingers like Scalia and Thomas who have said that 'there is no right to privacy'.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. I added my comment


Yeah, it's about conservative hypocricy.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. A gay or lesbian Democrat would be out, and protecting the rights of other gays.
No one would be that interested in what he or she was doing since the gay or lesbian would not be married. Now if gay marriage were legal, we might have gossip about infidelity, but since it isn't we would not. The gay or lesbian who did what Craig did would be just another desperate single person in the city. People might make jokes about picking up people in bathrooms, but that would be it.
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NavyDavy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. yeah funny....i guess the media didn't drag clinton thru the mud
for getting a bj.....
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. & guess whose face is the pic right next to the comments on "hypocrisy"?
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. I like this comment
"This was not private sexual behavior. It was in a public bathroom. He has consistently trumpeted the importance of family values (code for anti-gay) in his speech and his voting record. Because of that he lost any right to have his sex-life kept private.

It wasn't entrapment - Craig made the first move."

by one of comments left
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. I actually think she hits the mark, for the most part.
Which saddens me.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Really? So, a Peeping Tom is OK?
Not in my world. His sexual orientation is irrelevant.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. She lost me immediately
I just can't imagine a Democratic member of Congress being subjected to the same treatment if the facts, as we know them so far, were identical.

Linda Chavez is either most naive person in government or the biggest liar. Either way... :eyes:
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The Vinyl Ripper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
16. My comment to Ms Chavez..
It's not an accident that Jesus the Christ most often and vociferously condemned the hypocrites. Those of whom the Christ said thusly:

Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

It is the "family values" crowd that loves to pray standing in the synagogues and in the streets that they may be seen of men.

The Democratic Christians on the other hand are far more circumspect in their worship, treating it as a private matter as Jesus the Christ commanded his followers.

The Christ forgave the the adultress and even forgave the soldiers who were His executioners saying that the knew not what they were doing.

Hypocrites know what they are doing, Jesus the Christ would not forgive them unless they were truly repentant of this, the worst of sins.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. Right, Hillary Clinton
caught in a compromising position with a lesbian.

Yeah, that wouldn't make the news at all. :eyes:


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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. By the numbers
1. There is no "Senator X" so the use of a mythical character undercuts the whole argument.

2. Much as you would surely like the cop wasn't there "to catch gay men" he was there because this was apparently a place widely known to be the scene of public sex acts which are ILLEGAL.

3. Craig followed, to the letter, the textbook of how to initiate said illegal sexual acts (Chavez lays out Craig's 4 points of action). Everything he did is what *IS* done by those trying to find a sexual partner in this setting. This is clearly fully known by the cops as a result of past experience. Craig didn't get framed in fact he ADMITTED GUILT-she forgot to mention that important fact.

4. It isn't the media fault that they, for once, are actually reporting facts.



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