Note to the GOP: If what Craig did was worth resignation, force Vitter out as well.

[MessiahRp]

I heard an MSNBC anchor today say there was an "ick" factor to Larry Craig's situation. The GOP must think so as well as they have stripped his committee assignments and MN Senator Norm Coleman came out and publicly called what Craig did "disgusting", saying he should "resign".

What I think needs to be realized here is why Craig's actions are so "disgusting".

The GOP is certainly afraid of what this does to their family values illusion and certainly are trying to prevent this from doing damage to them in 2008. But if this is an embarrassment that they are worried about political repercussions on, where was this outrage when Sen. David Vitter used a D.C. Madam's prostitution service? Where was the embarrassment when it came out that Vitter wore diapers during these sessions?

A bathroom solicitation is more embarrassing than buying an illegal prostitute and being a 46 year old man in diapers?

Let's get to the meat of the problem. Craig's solicitation was for gay sex.

That's what pisses the GOP off here. The Hill's Emily Heil reported on Live with Dan Abrams last night that after Vitter's fiasco (in which he also denied doing anything wrong) the same group of Republicans calling for Craig's ouster had a closed door meeting where they gave Vitter a "standing ovation".

So it comes down to this. Either you're bigots who hate gay people and want to discriminate against Craig because he is gay or you will be consistent in your so-called "family values" purge attempt and will also force out another Senator who committed an embarrassing sexual act and committed adultery in the process.

Be honest. This is about your homophobia, not about a sex act. The only reason Craig needs to go is because it weakens your anti-gay, hateful rants and attempts to pass discrimination legislation. Vitter may have worn diapers but it was for straight sex.

I think this pretty much spells out the GOP for what they are. They are pathetic bigots and homophobes and nothing more.

That's way more embarrassing than soliciting in a bathroom.

-Rp

[goodhue]

1. What was the crime for which Vitter was convicted?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. disorderly conduct

[goodhue]

3. I thought that was Craig, not Vitter

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Ah, misread.

Vitter hasn't been convicted and is unlikely to be convicted. Statute of limitations.

[truebrit71]

4. Isn't soliciting a prostitute illegal?

..

[goodhue]

5. I guess I missed the criminal proceeding to which Vitter was subject

[truebrit71]

29. There hasn't been one yet, which should be crime in and of itself...

...

[BOSSHOG]

6. Good question but

republicans aren't calling for craig's resignation because he was convicted of a crime; hell committing crimes is a conservative value, he got caught and he's an embarrassment to the party and that can't be tolerated. And they have to show the world how tough they are. Picking up hookers on the other hand is not considered a violation of moral values relative to the grand old party, as long as the hooker is not male.

I find it quite telling that they are asking for his resignation. I'll get all uppity here and say his seat is between him and the citizens of Idaho.

[goodhue]

11. Well since Craig hasn't acknowledged anything, all they have is conviction

Coleman is calling for resignation because Craig plead guilty to conduct unbecoming a senator.

[MessiahRp]

15. No he's not. He's calling for resignation because that conduct was "gay" conduct.

From the sources on Countdown and Dan Abrams it was well known around D.C. that Craig regularly solicited bathroom sex from males. Once this hit the media they had to go after him to try to save their own hypocritical necks.

Rp

[goodhue]

19. Coleman said "Senator Craig pled guilty to a crime involving conduct unbecoming a senator"

If not for the conviction, Coleman would not be calling for the resignation

[MessiahRp]

21. We'll have to agree to disagree...

Personally I think that statement is Coleman's cover for his bigotry here. He especially in Minnesota, had to know his fellow GOP Senator got busted for this. The only reason he's so upset about it now is it's in the media and the "gay" part of the charge is embarrassing to the pro-bigotry party.

Rp

[goodhue]

27. I agree that he is upset that Craig just cost him his already tenuous reelection

It is no coincidence the bathroom is in Coleman's state which will be the site of the RNC convention.

Coleman is trying to put as much distance between himself and Craig as possible. He is also desperately trying to distance himself from the GOP more generally, and has been talking more and more like a moderate. This morning he was on KMSP live from the fair doing his best to embrace his good friend Sen Klobuchar. Coleman is trying to escape the Grand Old hyPocrisy, not gay conduct.

[BOSSHOG]

17. Coleman is calling for his resignation

because coleman doesn't have squat on his resume and he is up for reelection.

[MnFats]

22. Then there is the matter of Coleman's OWN FATHER'S behavior

speak no ill of the dead, but i think it was last year his father was detained and ticketed for having sex (with a woman) in a car outside a St. Paul pizza joint. He died within the last few months..

what is it with Minnesota? worry for my home state..

[BOSSHOG]

25. Hey Al Franken will ride in on his steed and save the day

[MessiahRp]

13. Exactly my point.

The conviction doesn't mean anything here, the "gay" part does. And as I said before, Vitter is still part of a legal probe into the D.C. Madam case so he is far from clear of legal charges.

Rp

[MessiahRp]

10. This has nothing to do with conviction

This has to do with an embarrassing act that is producing negative media for the GOP. Vitter, BTW, is part of the D.C. Madam probe so he is by no means in the clear.

Rp

[goodhue]

12. It has everyting to do with conviction

But for conviction we wouldn't even be aware of conduct

[MessiahRp]

18. The conviction got it in the paper, sure...

But this plea was entered a long time back and you can bet somebody in the GOP had some idea. They know what's going on in their ranks. The embarrassment of the "gay" part hitting the news is what they're upset about and why they want him out of office.

Rp

[Joanne98]

7. Ya! Vitter broke the law too. "What part of illegal don't u understand"

And it doesn't matter if he wasn't convicted. He admitted he committed the crime.

[goodhue]

9. I guess I think a conviction makes a difference with regard to criminality

I'm not trying to defend Vitter or anything. It just strikes me as a pretty big distinction.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. If Craig Had Got Diapered By A Male Prostitute I Would Argue Against His Resignation

Even though solicitation of prostitution is a crime it's a victimless one... Peeking through a crack in a restroom stall while somebody is doing their business is a crime with a victim...

[MessiahRp]

20. I agree to a point...

Prostitution is victimless with exception to rape cases or pimp abuse. I agree it should be legalized and regulated to make it safer for the women involved...

BUT... it was the social conservative crowd that pushed most of the prostitution laws out there and they are the ones that made sex so "immoral" (see: Bill Clinton).

They made the rules of the game, they need to play by them as well.

Rp

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Victimless Crime Is Just Shorthand

It's one of the few crimes where all the parties to it wouldn't willfully testify for the prosecution.

What Vitter did , imho, was malum prohibitum -bad because society says so, and what Craig did was malum in se, bad in and of itself... Craig showed wanton disregard and disrespect for the privacy of others. It's no different than me peering in through the crack in my neighbor's drapes while he has sex with his wife...

Like I said, if Craig was being serviced by a male prostitute I wouldn't join in calls for his resignation...

[0rganism]

16. I agree -- their outrage is entirely about the GOP's appeal to homophobes

While there may be plenty of senate ethics requirements that would lead naturally to a post-conviction resignation by Sen. Craig, the sheer force and speed of Craig's alienation by party leadership, fellow senators, and the newsmedia are indicators that the nature of his offense is especially poisonous to the GOP's nominal social platform.

[blogslut]

23. Yes, it's about Craig's sexuality, but

...it's also about Senate seats.

Craig is up for re-election this year. If they oust him now, they have the chance to hold a special election and get another GOP Bushbot to replace Craig.

Vitter isn't up for re-election until 2010. If he resigns/is forced out, there's a chance that Blanco can replace him with a Democrat.

[yardwork]

28. Ding ding ding! You win the thread!

That is the correct answer. In fact, I think that Craig is a sacrificial lamb for the Republican Party to "prove" that they oust bad behaviors. I suspect that it was a Republican who leaked the story to the press. The whole response has been very rapid and well-coordinated. I think that the party outed Craig on purpose.

Vitter they didn't want to lose. Vitter they circled the wagons for.

I don't think that Larry Flynt is through with Vitter yet, though. We shall see....

[malaise]

24. You have forgotten the rule

dead girl, live boy :D

[truebrit71]

30. Which succinctly explains why Joe Scarborough has a job...and Craig is about to lose his..

....

[malaise]

31. Bingo n/t