Why is masculine bisexuality confused with homosexuality and, for instance, vilified in our society?

[Colobo]

The Craig case has made me think about how every time a woman that has intimate relationships with men has an affair or a relationship with a woman she is quickly labeled bisexual, and her bisexuality tends to be not only accepted, but kinda "glorified" (from porn to Hollywood)- but when it comes to men that are married with females or are known to have relationships with men are quickly labeled as "gays" when they have a homosexual affair and socially attacked instead of respecting their bisexual orientiation (which is probably what they truly are).

Why the double standard?

[Captain Hilts]

1. Stepping out on a wife and two kids is totally not cool. No matter what you're steppin' with. nt

[Colobo]

3. I'm not talking about cheating, but the double standard when it comes to bisexuality...

[aquart]

39. Bisexuality is almost an implication of cheating.

If you are with one other person, the discussion doesn't come up. If you're with someone of the same sex, you're assumed homosexual, and if you're with someone of the opposite sex, you're assumed straight. But if you start sleeping around with people of both sexes, VOILA! People start saying, "bisexual."

In which case the variety of STDs that can be shared around becomes sufficiently frightening to almost anyone of sense.

[AZBlue]

56. What if you're not in a monogamous relationship with someone?

[aquart]

59. I'm seeing him, I'm seeing her, I'm seeing him, I'm seeing her...

And you feel this works well?

[Atman]

68. For some people, it works.

For some it doesn't. There are open marriages, there are swingers, there are "group" relationships...there are a shitload of people in this country. Thank god they're not all the same. Some like variety, some think it's icky. Sex is a funny subject, that's for sure. But no matter what the hell you're into in the bedroom, I just don't see why our society has such a perpetual boner about it. Aren't we fucked up enough in many other ways that to worry about whose parts are touching whose parts? What the hell does it matter? If you don't like something, don't do it.

.

[AZBlue]

82. It does for some people, yes, it works very well for them.

I've never tried it myself personally, but I'm not going to dictate what two (or more) consenting adults can and can't do.

[bicentennial_baby]

91. There are many, many polyamorous relationships

that function very well for those involved. Deal with it.

[closeupready]

4. I agree. Now, would you like to answer his question?

n/t

[ProudDad]

2. Because we live in a horribly

misogynistic, homophobic, hypocritical society...

The sickness permeates every corner of this sick, consumerist paradise...

[Kingshakabobo]

5. Are you saying ALL men who have affairs or leave their wives for men are bi-sexual?

That hasn't been my experience. I've met plenty of men in their forties, with children, that went that route saying they always knew they were gay. In other words, living a lie. Not going the "either/or" route.

[Colobo]

7. What if they are repressed bisexuals? That possibility is never considered.

[Kingshakabobo]

15. That doesn't square with the "living a lie" theme that we hear so much.....

That's more along the line of someone that wants to leave their spouse "for something different." If you TRULY have the wiring to be attracted to your wife you can't blame your sexuality. That just makes you fickle.

[Colobo]

20. But think about that it is much easier for a bi woman

to express to her significant other a desire of having a threesome with another woman. It's quite common and many men feel they just hit the jackpot when they find out their wives have these kinds of sexual desires.

Now, how many bi men would tell their wives about having a threesome with another guy (with some M on M action). It's like... I wonder if repression of masculine bisexuality is a big cause of these cases...

[LostinVA]

99. Why would you think a bi woman wants to have a threesome with her man?

Or a bi man? They may just be attracted to men and women, but not at the same time. Honestly, your view of female bisexuality, sounds just like you think bi women want to be getting it on for their man.

[Colobo]

101. That's not my view. I'm trying to simplify the issue with certain hypotheticals

just to illustrate my point.

[Lex]

6. "see how many semi-drunk girls are making out just to impress guys"

Clue: that's not bisexuality.

[Clark2008]

10. And not worth the effort.

I am completely on the heterosexual side of the sexuality line - in fact, I find the female body kind of ugly, while I think the male body is hot as hell (ahem :blush: ) and I think that women who do those sorts of things SOLELY to attract a man needn't bother. Those types of men aren't worth it.

Now, if they do it because they want to - more power to them. I don't give a rat's ass.

BTW, I adore my sex life. I just wish kids and work didn't get in the way. I'm gonna go upstairs now and hit on hubby. ;)

[frogcycle]

18. good lord where have you been all my life???

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

111. Shhhh! ... I'm off in search of the mold ... maybe there're more!

:rofl:

[Colobo]

12. I know, and that's exactly my point.

It's something that is socially accepted because female bisexuality is seen as "sexy" for many, so many straight girls wind up kissing other girls or doing some other sort of lesbic act more than anything to call attention or to impress someone. Now, how many straight guys even think about doing that? Not many. It's seen as a negative, anti-masculine thing. The idea of male bisexuality is seen as a symbol of "gayness" while female bisexuality is not.

So, everytime I hear about cases like Craig's, I wonder if the person involved is actually a repressed bisexual man.

[KoKo]

28. Where do you hang out that girls are all over each other trying to impress guys?

:shrug:

[Colobo]

31. Ybor City, Tampa, FL.

I used to hang out there when I entered college. Not anymore. Clubbing and alcohol tend to be too related and I truly hate alcohol.

[KoKo]

40. Could have just been a weird club...not typical...though, couldn't it?

:shrug:

[northzax]

92. among the under 25 set

it's pretty typical.

[Colobo]

93. Yep.

[Kat45]

63. Hey, I saw that happen in two different clubs in the past two weeks!

At one club, two drunk young women were all over each other, well beyond just making out, while a guy was trying to get in on it--they all ended up leaving together. (And another guy who happened to be in the area was taking pictures of the activity.)

Then just the other night, I was at a 'bad boys of rock' (or something like that) show, and IIRC in between a couple of sets, four women got up on stage and were making out with each other. (I believe that was planned by those putting on the show.)

So yeah, these days it does happen.

[KoKo]

136. Stuffs been going on for years...it's just more "open" now.....

If you find it kinky then keep going to those clubs...if it turns you off...then troll at places that suit what you are looking for better. :shrug:

[LostinVA]

100. "lesbic?"

[Colobo]

103. In Spanish, we use the term/adjective "lesbico" or "lesbica" to describe

any sort of sexual encounter or act between females. I don't know if the term "lesbic" exists in English.

[LostinVA]

105. Ah -- my Spanish is only good enough to order drinks in Mexico

[Colobo]

107. So the term "lesbic" doesn't exist in English?

[LostinVA]

108. No -- it's definitely not a real word or any sort of slang term I've heard

[Colobo]

109. So what would the correct adjective be?

[LostinVA]

110. Lesbian

[Liberal_in_LA]

117. Double standard: Madonna and Britney making out on TV, public less likely to 2 male stars kissing

[BlooInBloo]

8. Cuz girls are HAWT!

:rofl:

[treestar]

9. Anything the same done by men and women has a double standard

Oddly, this one does not seem to be a disadvantage to women, but perhaps it really is. Women making out titillates men; the opposite, not so much. So it's more tolerable because men like it, maybe?

You can bet whatever the reason it boils down to men's advantage. Men "breaking the rules" is more serious, perhaps? A bigger threat to society.

[porphyrian]

11. Most people wrongly assume sexuality is binary.

I've even heard some homosexuals claim that bi's are just too confused to commit one way or the other. However, I believe that sexuality occurs along a spectrum where everyone falls somewhere in between hetero- and homosexual, probably favoring one end or the other, though I don't have enough data to have a graph or anything.

[Colobo]

14. I agree with you 100%. That's the way I see it.

[porphyrian]

94. I wonder how hard it would be to get reliable data on this.

I've worked in survey research before (mostly as computer guy, sometimes as interviewer), so I know that people tend to answer honestly when talking about themselves as long as they aren't in fear of their answers coming back to get them (which might make this a difficult study). It would be neat (read "nerdy") to find out how, say, average Americans fell along the continuum.

[Clark2008]

16. There is a graph

Alfred Kinsey developed it.

[porphyrian]

19. Cool. Do you know if it is weighted towards the ends?

I'll eventually look it up myself now that I know it's out there, I'm just wondering if you know.

[Colobo]

21. No, I truly don't know about the graph. I haven't seen it.

[frogcycle]

22. here it is

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/electronic-publications/stay-free/5/sexchart.htm


edit - actually this is an alternate to the kinsey scale

[porphyrian]

33. The one with the z-axis representing time is pretty awesome, but it doesn't have any data.

It would certainly be interesting.

[InkAddict]

30. Then there's this other third "normal"?

that doesn't relate to gender identity and/or orientation but to drive and desire (lack thereof) either way.

http://www.asexuality.org/home/

[porphyrian]

37. That's interesting as well.

How would someone with no sexual impulses at all be able to convince others this was true and not some physical or psychological problem? Thanks, I wouldn't have even thought of that.

[Kingshakabobo]

34. I don't agree.......

Someone MUCH smarter than me wrote a pretty good piece on this subject the other night. I'll have to look for it but it won't be easy, considering the thousands of recent posts on the matter.

It goes something like this -

You are either bi-sexual or you are not. The vast majority of gay men identify as "just gay." No ifs ands or butts about it. There is NO choice of attraction there. There is no favor there. Same goes for straight men identifying as straight.

Bi-sexuals do not CHOOSE to be bi-sexual - they choose who they sleep with at any given time. THEY are the only ones that can "favor."

....fuck it. I have to find the piece.

[porphyrian]

44. That sounds like simply forcing a continuum into binary arguments a la Quentin Tarantino.

It sounds like your friend is just describing the phenomenon I mention in a different way. If you can link or paste it here, I'd be interested in reading it.

[Kingshakabobo]

57. Viola......

Ruggerson is the author:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1618434

Being Gay Is Most Definitely Not A Choice

This article below by some righting hack at Townhall illustrates why it is so vitally important to tell the truth about sexuality.

Being gay is a fixed sexual orientation.

Being straight is a fixed sexual orientation.

Being bisexual is a fixed sexual orientation.

You cannot, I repeat, you CANNOT change your sexual orientation. If you enjoy sex with both men and women, you are NOT changing back and forth from being straight to gay, you are BISEXUAL, and you are choosing to act on your fixed sexual desires/affections. Even if you don't have sex for the rest of your life, you're still innately BISEXUAL.

Too many of us buy into the bullshit that it doesn't matter if innate sexuality is a "choice" or is biologically fixed, because people shouldn't be discriminated against regardless.

The flaw in that argument is very simply that we are ceding ground to the rightwing fanatics who want to keep gays and lesbians as second class citizens, and in so doing, we are muddying the debate.

The religious rightwing's entire argument against us conflates sexuality with sex. In other words, they deny the fixed orientation that people have, and claim that everyone can choose to be straight (good) or gay (evil and bad).

This is, of course, a total lie. If a gay man remains celibate for the rest of his life, he is still a gay man. His sexuality doesn't change, just because he refrains from sex.

Enter Roberta Sklar, some moron from the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. Who says, for an ABC piece on sex on campuses:

<much more at the link>

..

[porphyrian]

66. Yeah, that isn't contradicting what I said or vice versa. It's simply saying sexuality...

...is fixed. The real difference is that this author chooses to name three sexes (gay, straight and bi) and put everyone into one of those three whereas I would plot everyone's sex on a graph.

[Kingshakabobo]

71. But aren't you saying that, SOMEWHERE along the graph, they have a "choice"?

[porphyrian]

74. I don't remember saying that at all. I'll go back and read what I wrote. Hold on...-n/t

[porphyrian]

75. Nope, I didn't say anything about "choice," you did. - n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

77. I didn't mean to say it was a quote.

Wouldn't your graph have a place on it where people can "choose"? Is that better?

edit to add: I shouldn't have put "choice" in quotes. Didn't me to say you said it. it was one of those quotes for words tossed about.

[porphyrian]

80. Are you talking about the graph the other poster linked to?

There is one, the Kinsey one, which is the simplest. It has one axis, from gay to straight. It measures your sexual preference (not choice).

Then, there's another which has two axes, one for heterosexual attraction/repulsion and one for homosexual attraction/repulsion.

The third one has the two axes of the previous chart, but also includes a third axis to represent time. Apparently, according to the article, there are people whose amount of attraction/repulsion has changed over time. That wouldn't be a choice, either. Besides, someone else wrote it, and there was no data included, so I have no idea how that might graph out across the population, but I find it interesting and would like to see the results of that study.

So, no, I never said anything about people choosing their sexuality.

[Kingshakabobo]

87. Yeah, I might have gotten a little too wrapped up in the "choice" discussion.

I know/think the OP was trying to say there are more bi's than we know due to negative connotations. That is probably true. Perhaps I was too wrapped up in the example of Craig because I doubt very much he is Bi........he is a classic deep-closet case. Not a philanderer who happens to be Bi.

edit to add: But I DO HAVE a problem with the OP's "probably what they are" piece when it comes to married men who cheat with other men.

Anyway, my very gay boyfriend is yelling at me to get off the computer and go to bed.

Night..:)

[Colobo]

89. You got it, and go to bed!

:hi:

[porphyrian]

90. Ha! Goodnight to both of you. - n/t

[BoneDaddy]

69. ding ding ding

we have a winner. Sexuality exists on a continuum.

[porphyrian]

72. I win! - n/t

[BoneDaddy]

81. LOL you win

I am not sure what you won, at the moment, but give me some time :)

[porphyrian]

84. Heh, I'm just happy with the title. - n/t

[begin_within]

106. You're right. It's not black and white. There are many shades of gay.

[porphyrian]

124. Heh, uuuuunh...a nuclear pun... - n/t

[frogcycle]

13. point well taken

simple fact is there are probably a LOT of people of both types of body configuration who just plain like "getting off" and whomever will help them do that is a friend indeed.

If a guy gets "serviced" orally by a hooker, he does not even know for sure what gender the hooker is. That doesn't make him straight, gay, or bi - it just makes him someone who pays for oral sex.

Every guy who ever "took matters into his own hands" has been serviced by a guy, and I rather expect that means everyone.

This whole labeling thing is crap. What people do with other consenting adults should not define them as of a particular subcategory. Why don't we discuss whether male/female couples always use the missionary position? Or whether they perform oral or anal sex? Or whether they do it on the kitchen table?

Why don't the uptight moralists leave the gays alone and start in on us "perverted" straights?

[closeupready]

17. Some people here would be surprised, I think, to find that many women

are turned on by two men having carnal relations with each other, whether in porn, or whatever.

[Colobo]

23. I wouldn't. A female friend told me that once, and it made sense to me.

Now, how many females would say that openly in our society?

[closeupready]

25. Not that many, for a lot of reasons, one of which is that they know

their male partners probably disapprove of it (as society tells them they must), and since we live in a patriarchal society, those women dutifully concur with their male partners, whether or not they REALLY concur.

[Lilith Velkor]

116. I would!

:hi:

[eridani]

120. Google "slash fiction" and find out

Quite a few. It's a crosscultural thing, too. Japanese girls get off on comics featuring schoolboy homosexual love.

[Colobo]

132. Yeah, but in our society how many women would say that as openly as men talk

about their F on F fantasies?

[AnnieBW]

24. Yeah, just look at some of the fanfic on the Internet

A lot of it involves two male characters having non-canon relationships with each other, like Kirk and Spock. Women are the primary writers and consumers of "slash" fanfic.

Personally, I'd welcome two men. One to cook, the other to clean! :evilgrin:

[Withywindle]

41. Lawd yes!

When Katzen was using the theoretical example of a man bringing up a threesome with another guy to his gf, I was like, "Where do I sign up for THAT?"

[Colobo]

45. Hahahahaha!!! But, honestly

how many women would admit openly: "I would love to see my man getting frisky with another guy and myself in the same bed"? Guys say that about FFM threesomes all the time.

[Withywindle]

46. I've said it.

Early and often, Chicago voter that I am. Just doin' my part for the revolution. :evilgrin:

Haven't got anywhere with it yet...

[Colobo]

47. Hahahahaha!!! Now I know about women in Chicago... :)

[LostinVA]

102. Yep

Even some lesbians, not myself, but I know some who do.

[phaseolus]

26. As far as I can tell...

...it's just a cultural preference prevalent in some sections of the society that values the 'alpha male'. It might not be the central organizing force in American society, but for those people who worship words like "tradition" and "values" and "family" and "God" and "strong" and "obedience" and "faithful", it's important for 'a man to be a man' I guess. In this view a male's very essence is what's important; a woman's is less important, since her function is to do what a manly man tells her to do.

Some people might be tempted to find an primate-evolutionary-biological explanation for this, but in my opinion it's the wrong tool for the job. An anthropologist or a good fiction writer or playwright would be the one to ask.

[wuushew]

27. Is anyone unhappy in your above scenario?

You seem to be hinting at an unconscious impediment created by society that may or may not be limiting the personal happiness of bi-sexual men.

What experiment could prove your supposition?

[Colobo]

35. I just supposse that many of these conservative, gay hating married men

who wind up in these kinds of "hidden" and usually prohibited sexual encounters with other men might have sexual desires for both sexes but, given how masculinity is constructed in our society, have had to repress part of their sexuality and instead of being open about them, they fear the consequences and find themselves in these kinds of situations.

Masculine bisexuality is a taboo topic in our society, I believe.

[Redstone]

29. Do even a few bisexual women solicit relationships with strangers in public bathrooms?

I suspect they don't.

End of answer.

Redstone

[Colobo]

38. What does that have to do with my post?

[Redstone]

51. I thought it raised a good point. Maybe it didn't. If so, feel free to ignore it.

Redstone

[Colobo]

52. It does, Red, and thanks for the input. However, I'm trying to focus on

what I feel is the predicament of masculine bisexuality in America.

[Redstone]

64. And it's good that you do so, it really is. But the problem that people have with the

Craig story is the part where it's anonymous, one-shot encounters in a public restroom. And THAT, which all of us who may be inclined to be defenders of ANY sexual orientation (and I am indeed one of them and for good reason), is seriously low-class.

You want to be a guy who likes guys? Fine by me, as many DUers can attest. You want to be a woman who likes women? Fine by me, as many DUers can attest.

But soliciting anonymous encounters in a public bathroom is just tacky. And you have to admit that if gay or bi men choose public bathrooms as a venue, and no other polysexual group does that, it makes that particular group look bad, PR-wise.

I've seen a shift in America toward more acceptance of people's sexual orientation by heterosexual over the last 30 years or so. But few Americans are ready to accept Craig's type of behavior.

Is that right for us to think? Fuck if I know. But it's there.

Redstone

[Colobo]

70. Craig is sleazy, no doubt, but I believe

there might be some social forces behind that kind of sleazy behavior... probably not, but it could be...

[bicentennial_baby]

42. Ha! You've never been to Divas!

A club in Noho...Lesbian/Bi female anonymous sex central in those bathrooms...Series. ;)

[Redstone]

49. Hey, you know that I don't get out much. But I'm sure you know what I meant.

Redstone

[idgiehkt]

112. some drunk ho's be shagging in the restroom in

every gay bar I've ever been in, lol.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Withywindle]

32. Because in macho authoritarian culture, "masculinity" is actually an incredibly fragile thing...

...that's the paradox. For a status that's so supposedly powerful and badass, "manliness" is about as substantial as a soap bubble, which is why slights to one's masculinity get such a, dare I say it, hysterical overreaction.

Seems to me that anyone who can maintain an opposite-sex relationship for decades, and yet still want same-gender sex badly enough to risk one's career by cruising for it in bathrooms, is textbook bisexual. The same goes for "ex-gays" who can fake it long enough to seem like success stories to their whackjob overlords. But is whether they're really gay or bi determined by how miserable they are when joylessly humping their unfortunate, clueless wives? If they don't hate it enough, they're bi? That seems pretty vague. But then, sexuality can be.

But I think it's definitely true that female bisexuality is acceptable to men in a way male bisexuality isn't--because it's not threatening to them. Accepting male bisexuality as a reality means there's more to this masculinity thing than "Us" and "Them", and that's just too much for your average authoritarian/machismo brain to handle.

[burrowowl]

36. In the Armed Forces

Non-homosexuals, but tough heteo officers or men of higher rank will bugger a lower ranking member to show who is boss, happens in prisons, Frat houses, etc. too.
It is a question of power and not sexuality. Sometimes bi-sexualty has nothng to do with, HA! I am more powerful!

[Colobo]

43. I don't know if people are getting my point.

I think Sen. Craig's predicament is a good point to start discussing the issues male sexuality confronts in a patriarchal society.

[Mend]

53. you are presuming Craig has sex with his wife. The children are adopted.

The marriage may never have been consummated. She may still be a virgin. It really happens. I know of more than a few cases. The women never get to have sex, so I wouldn't rush to call him bi-sexual, he may just be a homosexual deep in the closet.

[Colobo]

55. I didn't know those details, which bring new light on the story.

[Mend]

60. I also know women who literally have had sex only a few times in their

entire marriage...enough for a kid or two, but that is it. And I am talking about years and years with no action. Some have husbands that are like Gary Bauer or Rick Reed. I don't know if there is any homosexual activity going on, just no sex with their wives.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. A married bisexual, is by definition, not monogamous.

If you're going to marry and practice monogamy, you gotta pick sides. :popcorn:

[Colobo]

50. The marriage is not exactly my point, though.

[bicentennial_baby]

54. Bullshit.

Sexual orientation is not an indicator of one's predisposition to monogamy. I'm Bi, married, and I don't cheat.

[ruggerson]

58. you're confusing orientation with activity

someone can be bisexual and never act on the homosexual part of the equation. similarly, someonoe can be bisexual and never act on the hetero part of the equation.

So it's possible to be bisexual and be in a monogamous heterosexual relationship.

[Mend]

62. and it is possible to be gay, be married, and be sexually inactive with the wife

[ruggerson]

86. exactly n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

67. Ha! There you are. I posted your thread, from the other night, up-thread. n/t

[ruggerson]

78. where Craig falls into the grand scheme of things

who knows? He's either a gay closet case who has been living on the "down low' for fourty years (and we know there's sadly plenty of those) or he's truly bisexual, in which case it can be argued that it makes the adultery part of the equation even worse, because he didn't NEED to act outside of his marriage to achieve sexual gratification.

[lumberjack_jeff]

79. I make no distinction between a gay or straight marriage.

If your partner can't say that he/she is either gay or straight, then they don't have both feet in the relationship.

[ruggerson]

85. Well there's a lot of bisexuals who would disagree with you

Bisexuals are just as capable of monogamy as anyone else.

Their bisexuality doesn't mean they will have more of an urge to cheat. Just as easy for a gay guy to cheat on his partner with another gay guy, or a straight man to cheat on his wife with another woman.

One's orientation has nothing to do with one's ability to remain monogamous.

[lumberjack_jeff]

118. I think it's about labels.

Technically speaking, I'm heterosexual. But I don't think of myself that way, I think of myself as married. I may be attracted to women, but it's kinda academic.

Another way of considering it, can you imagine grandma ruggerson telling you that she's bisexual, but she hasn't acted on that orientation for the last 50 years, because she's chosen to be monogamous?

[eridani]

122. Not true. The fact that you are attracted to both sexes--

--does not change if you make a monagomous commitment to one person.

[AZBlue]

61. Many in this thread are arguing that bisexuality is wrong because it's not monogamous. BUT...

...who said we were supposed to be monogamous?? For the large part of history, humans have not been monogamous and it was accepted. When did it become a rule that we had to be?

I'm not being facetious - I'm asking a true question here because the OP made me wonder this particular point and I couldn't find it online. I'm intrigued by the "changes" that take place suddenly in a society's morals and values as a result of a ruling group realizing these new rules benefit them. Perfect example: the change of the status of women throughout history. Is this another instance of the same?

[Kingshakabobo]

76. If they are saying "that bisexuality is wrong because it's not monogamous" they are wrong.

Bisexuals don't HAVE to cheat.

[AZBlue]

83. True.

They just seem to be caught up on the monogamous thing, for some reason.

[defendandprotect]

65. I think the Craig "marriage" was one of convenience . . . . following the '82 GOP page scandals?

Evidently, he married someone from his office -- with a ready made family?
It doesn't look like Craig was ever bisexual.

As to homosexuality, the statistics I've read suggest that there is more male homosexuality than female homosexuality . . . . BUT that hetereosexual females will more often than hetereosexual males engage in companionable sexual relationships with females.

We all seem to have degrees of sexuality -- though homosexual and hetereosexual seem to be the extremes -- with bisexuality in the middle.

[Colobo]

73. I agree with the statistics you mention although

I believe the number of male bisexuals might be higher than what we probably think, just that they don't come out because our construction of masculinity is very rigid- either you are a real man or you are not...

[defendandprotect]

95. Agree --

Of course, I'm only reading statistics and doing my own thinking, but also we have this horrible prison situation where quite a while ago the male-on-male rape was more than 200,000 every year.

And, a severe consequence of these rapes, is that when these presumably hetereosexual males leave prison one of the first things they are said to do is to rape a female in order to prove their hetereosexuality!

[Colobo]

97. What a terrible thing! Didn't know about that being one of the consequences

of prison rapes!

[Colobo]

88. I'm glad these topics can be discussed in an intelligent, open minded manner here at DU.

This is a great forum indeed.

[begin_within]

96. You're right - for women it's just "expermentation" but for men it's being branded for life

[Colobo]

98. Exactly my point.

[begin_within]

104. I think it's that men are more homophobic than women are... it seems like women can

understand and tolerate and empathize with other women, and this can include an "understanding" that the other woman felt the need to "experiment" a little and it doesn't mean she has to be labeled or branded. But with a group of straight men, if it became known that one of them had something like that happen, the homophobia of the group will never allow him to live that down - he'll carry that around forever in their eyes like a "Scarlet Letter" and they'll tease him about it now and then for as long as they know him. "Oh you're one of those!" the men will think, while women won't think that way about other women. I assume.

[eridani]

123. True when reacting to gay kids as well

Maybe it's because women have this gut-level appreciation that all LGBT folks have mothers?

[idgiehkt]

113. nobody wants the bi's though

the gays or the straights. It's a catch 22.

I think this has to do with religion and the perception of masculinity in this culture. No one really knows if these guys are bi or gay, but themselves. With regards to politicians, many of these fellows probably are gay and just have the wife and 2.5. kids as a career move.

[dysfunctional press]

114. it's always been explained to me fairly simply:

you either suck dick, or you don't suck dick.

:shrug:

[Colobo]

115. LOL! That's what my parents say and what I used to say

until I realized the World is way more complex...

[HardRocker05]

119. it's like the one-drop rule; you're either 100% red-blooded hetero, or you're a f**king fag. sorry

about the language but that is the way that many in our our society think. when the social stigma and negative consequences are so great based on one's membership in a certain unpopular group, it doesn't matter that one also belongs to some extent in a more popular, more powerful group. the reason it's different for bi women is that there is less negative stigma associated with women having sex with each other than with men having sex together, therefore people are willing to get into shades of gray such as "bi" vs. "gay." now if you want to talk about why it's considered worse for men to be gay that for women to be gay, that's a whole different thread.

[eridani]

121. It's true--biphobia does indeed seem mostly directed towards men.

The polyamory community is better than expected, though, and swingers are way worse.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

125. First, I don't think Craig was ever bi-sexual. I believe his marriage to be one of

"convenience". He quickly married a bulit-in family on the heels of the 1982 page scandal. So your use of him as an example is not valid IMHO.

And to anyone vilifying anyone's sexuality is just plain wrong. What i think you are alluding to though is cheating, and cheating on one's partner, no matter with what gender is not a wonderful thing either. I have "cheated" in my past and really do regret being duplicitous. I should have made a clean break before following my heart and yes, lust.

[raccoon]

126. Women who are promiscuous are "sluts," heterosexual men who are promiscuous are "studs."

Why the double standard?

[Katherine Brengle]

127. Oh sweetheart, it's because

men are the owners and women are the property, even in our so-called progressive society.

Property doesn't function without the owner's say-so. Owners can do what they like with impunity.

[raccoon]

131. Thank you!

It's the same answer as to the OP's question.

"because it's a patriarchal society." :puke:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

128. masculine sexuality is considered important and the betrayal of this sexuality

in any form, especially one which is considered feminine, is a bigger betrayal

womens sexuality is not considered particularly important.

[libnnc]

129. that's a really good point

well put too :thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

130. thanks.

[Chovexani]

137. Remember, it's not really sex unless there's a penis involved

Thus the dumbass questions from genuinely confused straight men about what it is lesbians actually "do". Because what on earth would anyone do in bed without a penis to join in the festivities. On another note, I sure feel sorry for those guys' wives/girlfriends. :P

(And now I take the time to shamelessly fangirl you, Priyanka :hug:)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

133. Well now wait a minute...

Since in our society there's still a large number of gay people living in the closet and living a heterosexual lifestyle isn't equally unfair to assume that they're bisexual?

[Colobo]

134. Not necessarily, because I'm not referring to those who are gay.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

135. Right, but how would you know if somebody in the closet is gay or bi?