Hey, Joe for Clark. Look here Brother, don't do this to yourself again

[Ghost in the Machine]

I know you're in a lot of pain and mental stress with your son over there, but this isn't helping you, him or anyone else, brother.

Look man, go to one of my sites and post to your hearts content. I won't lock your threads, won't ban you, won't delete you.. Nothing dude... go post way, then come back and read yourself later. when you're feeling better.

http://www.43legacy.com/dc/dcboard.php

http://www.congressunderfire.com/dc/dcboard.php

http://www.bash-a-bush.com/dc/dcboard.php

People are more than welcome to follow you there and respond to you if they wish. Have at it, bro, before you do something here that you'll regret later.

Peace!

Ghost

[hlthe2b]

1. You're a kind, compassionate person, Ghost...

:thumbsup:

[Lex]

3. I was thinking that same thing.

nt

[Ghost in the Machine]

10. shhh! Don't tell everyone! I have a bad reputation to keep! ;-)

:hi:

Hey, I don't want to see the dude get banned. He's battling a lot of dragons in his mind, as anyone who has a loved one in this quagmire probably is. He needs an outlet and chooses to battle the dragons with his keyboard.

[More Than A Feeling]

11. Too late, yer busted!

:toast:

[WindRavenX]

2. good idea

Thank you :thumbsup:

[Bjornsdotter]

4. That is very nice

...:toast:

[Booster]

5. Ghost, you make me think there's hope for humanity. That's an

awesome offer. Do it, Joe - for all of us here who care for you and your son.

[az chela]

6. JOe,I dont know who you are but i have seen some of your

posts on here and they are usually hard for me to handle but i know you are in a lot of pain.I understand that as my son was a ver and he dies 3 years ago.My other son no longer talks to me as I cant get over my first sons death.I ache every day for peace but cant find it.I hope you can get thru this ok and if I can ever help please let me know

[More Than A Feeling]

7. He posted a pretty good thread in R/T forum just a bit ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=146082&mesg_id=146082

I'll K+R this.

[AlCzervik]

8. Hats off to you Ghost, you're a kind soul.

[KT2000]

9. That is a very cool thing

you just did.
Thoughtful, creative and smart!
Thanks for the boost to my faith in humanity. :yourock:

[dweller]

12. and for the rest of the 'bleeding heart liberals' , a reminder

" Do not "stalk" another member from one discussion thread to another. Do not follow someone into another thread to try to continue a disagreement you had elsewhere. Do not talk negatively about an individual in a thread where they are not participating. Do not post messages with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member. Do not use your signature line to draw negative attention to another member of the board."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html


use your ignore topic/member feature, and get the fu*/ offa his back.

go back to your clique.
dp

[More Than A Feeling]

14. man, quit harshing everyone's mellow.

:hippie:

[slowry]

23. mmm harshmellows... d'oh :( n/t

[WildEyedLiberal]

15. Who's doing that?

Everyone here is thanking Ghost for being a nice guy. Everything else was posted in threads JOE created.

I am sorry the guy obviously has demons, but don't pull out the "clique" crap when DUers are just tired of seeing this same sad song and dance played out over GD every week or so.

[dweller]

18. you have an option

to never see a post by him again, nor a topic concerning him. Like he never existed, nor his demons.

i posted here b/c his thread is locked. . . and this thread would probably draw the same lame posters who find him an easy target to attack.

what's your point?
dp

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Breeze54]

13. You are such a sweetheart!

:loveya:

:grouphug:

[lligrd]

16. I Refuse To Taunt Joe And Can't Understand Why Others Do.

He is more invested in this than most of us and I know that this administration has nearly driven me to lunacy without having a son in Iraq. It seems the admin here understands his pain and is alot more tolerant than some of us who should know better. Nobody has to read his posts if they don't want to. I see a man crying out in pain.

[dweller]

20. ...

:thumbsup:

dp

[flyarm]

25. i could not agree with you more!! i think i would be out of my mind if my son was

in that damn hell hole!

i really would be out of my mind..so why does anyone come down on Joe??

if you don't want to read what he says..don't open his threads..damn it..it is that simple..

i like reading Joe's threads ..sometimes ipost and other times not..and my heart breaks for what he is going through..

i might take to drinking and god knows what , if my son was over there..

my feeling is always..there but for the grace of god go I...and unless you walk in anothers shoes you know nothing!!

Thanks Ghost..you are a kind soul!

fly

[Breeze54]

26. Who would taunt him? They'd have to be sic!

That's pretty fucked up, IMHO!

Although, there are Military Support Groups that have invited him and he refused.

Not 'strict' military' but just people like him and ME and he still refused to even TALK!!!

I wish him well. I tried.

[Ghost in the Machine]

17. Thanks everyone, for the kind words...

I like Joe, and want to see him stick around. If he needs to vent, I'll let him. Dude just needs to get something off his mind the only way he knows how...

[BlooInBloo]

19. Yup.

[lligrd]

21. Yep, And The Least We Can Do

is let him.

[LittleClarkie]

24. I tried to direct him over here

but now he thinks I'm trying to be one of the mods, and started a thread calling me out. I'm not sure he's coherent enough to get through to at the moment. Might wanna try email or PMing him with this.

[Breeze54]

27. He needs

professional help, at his point.

[Joe for Clark]

28. Oh - really - and you know what??

Don't give opinions you are not qualified to give.

It is a good rule.

I could tell you things that would scare the living piss out of you - so if I did - what would you need??

Back off jack.

Joe

[Breeze54]

31. I know what you've told all of us for months.

:hug:

[Joe for Clark]

33. You only know what I told you -

What makes you think that is all?

Joe

[flyarm]

35. Joe..what you know would scare the shit out of me..and i am so sorry that

Your son is over there..and that he and you know what is going on..and i know it is a terrible burden for your son..and for you..it must be a helpless feeling to know you can not tell other all of it..

see i was a flight attend for one of the airlines involved with 9/11 and there are things i can not tell anyone either..and i know the years of burden it has been for me..

and even if i told others years ago..no one would have believed me..they would more so today..

and i found all i could do was try to educate as many people as possible about what i could talk about..and try to open eyes..

i know that is what you are trying to do..

and i truely do know they burden on you..
i didn't sleep for several years after 9/11 trying to get info to the right people..and because i was trying to figure out how to warn people..and make people open their eyes..

so i worked inside groups without exposing myself but getting info to people that could do some things about what was going on..

and god i know how frustrating it is..

and how you want to shake the shit out of people and scream wake the hell up...

but i knew the greatest service i could do was educate as many people as i could in sometimes the simpler things..

i always say ..this is like one huge stinking onion..you peal layers and layers and layers ..and the more you peel the more there is to peel and the stinkier it gets..till the smell is overwhelming..

i wish i could give you peace..but none of us will have peace until these murderers are out of our white house..and each and everyone of them are held accountable and i always say ..until they are in orange suits with shackles on their ankles and hands!

i wish i could give you the peace you deserve..

but i can not.

kindest thoughts to you..fly

[Breeze54]

37. I'd believe you! My sister was on a flight

out of Boston/Logan; at the gate next to the hijackers.

We didn't know where she was for three days.

That was a scary time for many of us.

:hug:

[flyarm]

42. and i went out of Newark ahead of UAL flt 93 ..that morning..

and i didn't get home to my family for 8 days..

my son was terrified.. as one of our neighbors lost their 24 yr old son ..killed by my airline in WTC1...

fly

[Breeze54]

44. Hug.. Hug..Hug...

That's all I know how to do, sweetie! Just hug you!!
I was scared shitless for 3 days, not knowing where
my sister was... I know, you know, what that felt like.
That was a very scary time.... :hug:

:loveya:

[Joe for Clark]

38. Clearly - you got this exactly -

I have had it.

I can't do this anymore - how do you do it?

SHut up when every urge in you body says otherwise.

I do wish you the best -

Joe

[flyarm]

46. not easy..but i went out to every dem club and dnc party meetings and i did public speaking

to wake people up..i learned everything i could ..immediately..i knew the story was pure bullshit..so how can one person or few changed the perceptions of millions..not easy..and very slow..

but then i ran for electionas a delegate for my county and state..and i won..i got the most votes over all the full time politicians..and i never ran for even homeroom queen before that.. ..so i could get up close to those who do make the laws and rules we all end up living by..i got to the congress people and senators..and i got in the faces of Kerry and Edwards...and they listened..i did public speaking with Max Cleland..and believe me ..i never did public speaking before in my life..but i knew i had to get the message out to as many americans as i could ..that what they were told was total bullshit..

they know what went on..i assure you of that..they know how fucking evil these bastards are!!

i started internet groups..i run 6 now nationwide..of people i send info to each and every day..and they get it all on message boards all over the country..

i was the first person in my area of Fla to bring out the election machine fraud ..i learned everything i could about the damn voting machines..and i taught people to take over and work on getting the changes we need..i had experts in the country work with people and teach then everything they could know about the damn machines we were voting on..this was long before it was a popular subject..and i went face to face with the dem party people in my state who tried to shut me up..

education..that is the only way we will get this country back..to educate as many people as you can..

it is our only chance..

and then gotv..get out the vote..if we have over whelming numbers voting they can't steal it..oh they will try..but we need massive numbers of people voting..and we need everyone to get off their asses and become poll workers and poll watchers...
i was a Poll Watcher at large one of only two at large poll watchers in my county ( lrg county in fla) we need more than two!..we need hundreds..i did it every day 15 hours a day for 2 weeks of early vote and the general in 2004...for all primaries and all elections..

we can not sit here and bitch when it gets stolen..we all need to get out and just do it!!

and Ya Know what Joe...it made me feel like i was doing something..about all this shit..by getting out and doing something to take this country back from these murderers..

i wasn't just worried anymore..i was doing something about it.

i hope that helps telling you how i dealt with it all..

my way was to do something..anything and everything i could to stop this shit.

fondly..fly

[Joe for Clark]

49. You keep going man -

I am proud of you -

This is the way we get the country back little by little.

This is our goddamn country -

Please don't stop.

Joe

[Breeze54]

50. YOU ROCK!!!

"...and i went face to face with the Dem party people in my state who tried to shut me up..."

I didn't go as far as you but I did go out of state canvassing with ACORN and we won a
Democratic Governor in NH for the first time in 16 years!! And we turned NH blue in 2006!! LOL!!

Getting the vote out is sooo rewarding!!

Huge :hug: for you!!

;)

[Breeze54]

36. You think you are the

only parent that has had a kid in a war zone?? YOU AREN'T!!!

It scared the shit out of the rest of us DUers too!!

I know that fear!! I LIVED IT, JUST AS YOU ARE!!!

:hug:

As I've said before to you... You are NOT alone! :hug:

[lligrd]

29. I Think The First Thing He Needs Is His Son Home

After that, we can see if he needs more help.

[Breeze54]

32. You are right but that isn't going to happen right now, so?

What Dad needs is an outlet and a venue to share his feelings with people with the SAME feelings!!

It isn't like he's the only one here at DU that has had or has a child in a war zone.

And he knows that, he just choses to ignore all the others here that are in the same boat.

[lligrd]

34. Breeze, Not Everyone Copes The Same

and maybe he isn't coping too well. But I refuse to judge how anyone deals with a situation like this. I do know that his immediate problem is his son being gone. Then, he probably needs to deal with some other things, especially his own wartime experience. His problems are our problems and we are going to have a lot more like him with these problems when the Iraq vets return.

[dweller]

40. actually, i believe he's coping fine considering.

He's vocalizing. (and contrary to what some might think, he has every right to).

i'd be more concerned if he wasn't.
dp

[lligrd]

43. Very True!

And I am happy that the mods give him the opportunity. I just think that some (like Breeze) are really worried about him and trying to help.

[dweller]

54. Joe may only accept help from those he trusts.

(and Joe, i don't want or mean to be talking about you here without your knowledge or permission, so correct me if i'm out of line).

Accepting help to some is a sign of weakness, or giving up, especially to some who have spent time depending only on their own capabilities against all odds. And giving up is not an option in matters of survival.

Developing trust depends on viewing another as yourself, and having the knowledge that nothing inside your mind, your conscioussness, or your heart would be alien, unacceptable or disregarded by another. When you are able to help others feel as such, they trust you. When you are able to understand it, you help your self.

dp

[lligrd]

62. Sounds Very Wise To Me Dweller

and I echo the thought about talking about Joe (It doesn't feel right with or without his permission).

[flyarm]

48. me too!! the worst thing anyone can do is be silent!! eom

[Breeze54]

41. What? You think I haven't been there?!?

He knows damn well I HAVE been there!! In both places!!

He has chosen NOT to deal... Why? I have no idea.

He just keeps posting here, which is fine, except he

seems to think he's all alone here...and he isn't!!

To tell the truth? When I needed support, he ignored me.

Seems it's all about "Joe".....

[lligrd]

45. Reminds Me Of The Smoker That Finally Manages To Quit

and can't understand why others can't. I am very happy that you have been able to deal with situations I wouldn't wish on anyone. But what if you couldn't have dealt with them as well? Do you suppose you would be in any condition to help others in such a state? I don't think I could. Maybe someday he will be able to share his pain in a more productive way with others that have been there but for now he seems to be unable to do so.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lligrd]

51. Actually, I Stuck Up For You Earlier

and I don't think I am anybody but who I am. I am a person who fought against this war from the very beginning (actually the stupidity of the invasion of Afghanistan as well). I was out protesting at every chance, And why? Because I too have a son of age and I had no illusion that we had any right or any chance at winning a war based on BS. And I am under no illusion that they would take my son in a hot jiffy if it suited them. So yes, I have a bit of insight into what you are going through even if I have not had to suffer my son actually going to Iraq. I still know that given a chance this administration may well try to force him to go. In other words, it still drives me crazy. And this I can promise you, my son will only fight for Cheney's riches over my dead body.

So no, I don't think you are a bad person, nor do I think Joe is. And if yelling at me helps you, by all means, do it some more.

[Breeze54]

53. You have no clue what it's like!

Day to day, to have your loved one being bombed and then reading NO NAMES RELEASED YET daily!!

You have NO IDEA WHAT kind of daily TERROR that showers YOU with!!

You haven't a clue what Joe and I feel like and don't even try to pretend you know the terror!!

YOU DON'T!!

It's terrifying and it's REAL and it doesn't go AWAY even after they return!!

YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF THE FEAR!!!! You haven't a CLUE!!!!!

:cry:

[lligrd]

55. No I Don't But I Do Know That I Am Fighting To Prevent From

knowing that fear. You just stated very well, what I know Joe (and obviously you) are still going through. Why are you blaming Joe for not dealing with something that you are still having trouble dealing with? Not blaming you, just questioning.

[Breeze54]

57. I am NOT

blaming Joe at all!! I did reach out to him in his grief but he didn't reach back.
That is understandable but parents like us need each other and he didn't seem to
understand that or want to participate. I was the same. I didn't want anything to
do with the "regimented' "group"; that's why I started my own. I'm not a 'military'
Mom at all, just the Mom of a son who was stop lossed to Iraq and lived in fear for
a year and a half and still am in fear he'll be recalled.

[lligrd]

60. I Know Breeze, I Am Just Saying That Perhaps He Can't Reach

out yet. Keep trying, give him some time and perhaps he will someday.

[flyarm]

56. may i just interject..tonight my neighbor who lost his 24 yr old son in WTC1 came over

and sat with my hubby and i ..and he was so angry..but he tried to restrain his anger...he talked baseball with my hubby..and chit chat..and then he got tears in his eyes..and he said he was so upset about these commericals..that the gop assholes are running..then he put his head in his hands..and cried...as september approaches it is very very difficult for this man..and his wife....his son was Jeff,..they have an adorondack chair out front on their porch..and on the chair is has a plaque with Jeff's name..to them it symbolizes... that they will always be waiting for Jeff to come home..

my hubby could only put his hand on this mans shoulder..and be here for him..we women ..we can talk alot easier..but ..a man and his son..well..men have a harder time putting words to loss..

this man has been so even keeled to this point..his wife has been the angry one..the one who went to the family therapy..but tonight this wonderful man fell apart in my hubby's arms..he is so angry about these commericals with the twin towers being hit..

now this is one of the most mild mannered men you would ever meet..he raised 4 boys..

today an anger came out of him i never saw before..i left the men alone..so our friend and neighbor could have my husband with him..he needed my husband..not me..

i have seen so many who have faced such horror..both in my airline and many many neighbors and families in my hometown ..that lost so many on 9/11..and each one reacts differently..some go along..some have horrible anger..some have delayed anger..some stay in denial a long time..

and one thing i can tell you without a shadow of doubt..their shoes... are not shoes i think i could fit into.

and i sure as hell can not judge any of them..nor can any of us judge anyone who has sent a son or daughter to iraq or afganistan.

i sure won't and can't..i am not big enough or smart enough or as brave as you.

fly

[lligrd]

58. Nicely Said FlyArm

I'll leave this thread at that.

[Breeze54]

63. I never sent

a son to Iraq. He was about to separate from the National Guard because his contract was finished
BUT after his contract ended but they stop lossed him anyway and he got OIF orders instead of
separation papers. I was informed on Christmas Eve that my oldest son was going to war and I had
one week to travel from MA to Chicago to see him for "the last time..." during the Holiday week.
That means, "No flights and no empty seats." But I had to fast talk and they didn't care that I
was the Mom of a son being shipped to Iraq! They didn't give a rats ass!!! Fuckers!!!

My oldest sons nightmare began and so did my and my youngest sons' nightmare.

So? I understand Joe. Not that his story is the same. I'm talking about 'feelings'.

[flyarm]

66. and now it it time for me to

:hug: :hug: :loveya: you!!!


fly

[Truth2Tell]

30. Really, what's wrong with some of you people?

:wtf:

Can't you just leave the guy alone? Never heard of Ignore? They should ban about five people involved in this shit IMHO.

(I don't mean you Ghost, I know your tryin to help.)

[XOKCowboy]

39. That's pretty cool, dude.

Helpin' out a guy in distress in the tradition of all true Liberals and Progressives. My hat's off to ya.

[Joe for Clark]

52. I appreciate what you are trying to do.

Joe

[Ghost in the Machine]

67. Joe, I hope you take me up on my offer....

You have a lot to contribute here, and I don't want to see you flame yourself out, brother. I know sometimes people just need to vent and get things out of their head.

You say the word and I'll give you your own website. I have a digital coupon for a free domain name... I'll register it and put on with my hosting account. Won't cost you a dime.

I hope your son comes home soon so you can find some peace of mind.


Ghost

[enigmatic]

59. Joe's ok w/ me

Joe, you're a good man.

[Nutmegger]

61. I'm a bit glad that I don't know what's going on.

Seriously, some of the people here are just plain disgusting. WTF is your problem, those who continue to harass Joe for Clark? Can you not see that he's in pain? That he needs to say what he has to say?

If you don't have anything nice to say, then STFU and let the man speak. There are quite a few options here, such as hide thread or ignore if you're in that much of a tizzy.

I stand with you Joe for Clark. :hug:

[EFerrari]

64. So very well done, Ghost.

:)

[Forkboy]

65. That's pretty cool of you,Ghost.

It's a good post to see first thing in the morning.

I got no problem with Joe at all,and compared to the rest of the chaos in GD I can't really see why anyone should be so uptight about him.