Tx Gov. Perry stayed he execution of Foster in that "rule of parties" case.

[Ilsa]

Maybe it was on DU earlier, but I don't remember seeing it for all the Craig threads.

BTW, protestors were outside his church in Austin last Sunday, pleading for clemency, from what I've read.

[sandnsea]

1. It was posted last night

It has been sad it hasn't gotten more attention. Here is a guy who really didn't murder anybody, and nobody was saying he did, and yet we couldn't get anywhere near the outcry Tookie got. Still, it was enough to get the commutation which is dang near a miracle in Texas.

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. Nah, he was just out for armed robbery

I'm really trying to understand sympathy for this fellow.

[sandnsea]

5. Death penalty for robbery??

I'm really trying to understand your bloodthirst.

[Fredda Weinberg]

15. Thirst?

I'm against the death penalty on principle - in practice it's worse ... but I just want to be clear on facts.

[sandnsea]

22. you've posted on this elsewhere

And you, of all people, never post unless you're clear on the facts.

So yeah, I can't figure out why you keep slandering people who support this commutation.

[Fredda Weinberg]

24. I don't mean libel, just adding context

It irks me when outlets like ours leave out context. We have too powerful a voice to ignore our responsibility to present all the relevant facts.

[sandnsea]

27. Well Rick Perry disagreed with you

So I guess if you want to be to the right of Rick Perry, that's up to you.

[Fredda Weinberg]

28. Actually, no

Perry didn't change the law - he did grant clemency, which is a vestige of the feudal system.

How can I be to the right of the governor when I oppose the death penalty in almost all cases? Problem is, I'm a first generation American from a tiny family of Holocaust survivors ... am I supposed to hold as a moral principle that Nazi criminals should not have been hanged?

[redqueen]

6. Doesn't require sympathy to be against the death penalty.

Also, the death penalty, even if one supports it, is usually not given out as a sentence for armed robbery.

Does that clear things up?

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. Armed robbery where somebody dies?

I'd check your state's statutes.

[redqueen]

18. I'm in Texas, the state this guy's sentence was commuted in.

So I guess that we don't give the death penalty for being involved in a robbery where someone is murdered, unless the person did the murdering themselves. Seems fair to me.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. Capital Murder vs. Armed Robbery

See the difference?

Shouldn't the sentencing reflect that difference?

[Fredda Weinberg]

17. Actually, no

If you go out with a weapon to rob and somebody dies ... look, I don't support the death penalty but if you're going to impose punishment, I'd say the victim is dead in either case.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. The law doesn't work that way

The law makes a distinction between armed robbery and capital murder. If you do not agree with that on a personal level that's your right, but it doesn't change the law.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. Upon rereading your post I don't think you understand the case

Foster was the driver of a get-away vehicle not the man who committed the murder. He was not directly involved in the murder, he was in the vehicle.

The law that imposed the death penalty on him was poorly written and misapplied in this case. If he were the in the vehicle and they went there with the intention to commit murder, rather than a robbery turned into murder he would not have gotten his sentence commuted. As it is all involved said they had no intention of a murder being committed and there were two other people in the vehicle that were not charged with murder.

[Fredda Weinberg]

21. I understand and the law was applied

I disagree w/the law but in this case I understand. No, it makes no difference if the group went out for blood or just cash ... in the commission of a felony someone died.

Without that context, it would appear that someone who was an innocent driver was facing the ultimate penalty w/o mens rea. In this case, the facts are relevant.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

25. The law was not applied to the other two passengers

In your eyes was that fair or should they also have faced the death penalty?

[napi21]

2. Yes, I was surprised to hear that! Perry apparently isn't as evil as

Shrub!

[yella_dawg]

23. Unfortunately...

Perry doesn't seem to be as intelligent as Shrub either.


I do so truly hate the Goodhair, by the way.

[flashl]

4. Yes, there was a DU thread about Foster

In this story, Condemned killer spared by Texas governor, they report "The halt to Thursday's execution marked only the second time since Texas resumed carrying out executions in 1982 that the parole board voted to stop an execution this close to punishment time. And in that case, in 2004, Perry rejected the board's recommendation and the prisoner was executed."

They either didn't research well or completely ignored the events surrounding Frances Newton.

[sandnsea]

8. It was stayed, not commuted??

I thought it was commuted. If it was just stayed, well then this isn't over at all.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. Commuted to life in imprisonment.

http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/press/pressreleases/PressRelease.2007-08-30.0856

[sandnsea]

12. Good

That's what I thought I had read.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

14. There was a great deal of confusion at first

But when all was said and done it turned out that justice in this case prevailed.

[redqueen]

7. Here's the only thread I saw before yours...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2972261

[sandnsea]

10. Here's another

That says the sentence was commuted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1702562

[deadmessengers]

13. He did the right thing for the wrong reason

The DP is inherently wrong. The application of the maximum punishment under the law to someone complicit in a murder is not - and yes, joining in a criminal conspiracy that ends in a death is MURDER.

[ieoeja]

26. So all murderers should get the exact same punishment.

Murder 1: two people break into my house intending to kill and rob me. They do so.

Murder 2: two people break into my house thinking I am away. Turns out I am there and have a firearm. One of them tosses a lamp at me while running away. The thrown lamp kills me.

Murder 3: two people break into my house while I am away. One of them trips in the dark falling down the stairs causing him to die.

Murder 4: two people break into my house intending to rob me. One of them has a gun and kills me. The other had no idea his friend was armed.


All eight criminals above are guilty of the same degree of homicide under the laws of, so far as I know, every state in the United States. According to your statement all eight of these criminals should receive the exact same punishment. I have to very strongly disagree with you. Not all murders, even within the same degree, are equal. And neither should be the punishment.

[deadmessengers]

29. Not all murdererers, no. Just those who do so with aggravating circumstances

I do believe that homicide committed during the course of another premeditated felony should carry the steepest punishment allowable under the law, yes. Of the four scenarios you described, the only one that's even iffy is #3. Of the other 6 hypothetical murderers, yes, I think that after a conviction at trial, the judge should have the power to send them away forever.

Clearly, this does not mean that ALL murders are created equal - however, a premeditated felony is one of those "aggravating circumstances" to murder that can justify a supreme punishment in my mind. And treating all co-conspirators the same is also fine by me.