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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 05:50 AM
Original message
Humor can be cruel.
Sometimes cruelty seems to be the whole point of humor, especially these days. The things people find funny are always changing, but people always find humor in every situation, even when it doesn't seem appropriate.

Disgraced senator craig has ignited a firestorm of sick jokes that will be with us for a long time, maybe even forever, and not everyone finds the jokes funny, such is the nature of humor, for good or bad.

I'm a fan of South Park, even though it does offend me on occasion. I also love Family Guy and American Dad and the Simpsons and the other adult oriented t.v. cartoons, but there are gags on them that sometimes offend me, particularly the ones about disabled people. I remember when jokes about disabilities were forbidden, and I remember when there were NO jokes about Jesus Christ.

Jay Leno still cracks sex jokes about Bill Clinton all these years later, mark foley still generates gags, any politician caught with his pants down is subject to being joke fodder.

I have a friend in the publishing business whom I write gags for, he is gay, and much of the humor he publishes is gay humor, so I try to write some gay and lesbian gags, many of which he has published, and I'm not gay. So I am always nervous about submitting gay humor for fear of offending rather than amusing. But he tells me that my gay gags are well received, and selling briskly.

My client is also an atheist, and has quite a bit of atheist humor, which of course many people find offensive, some religious people have no tolerance for religious humor, which almost always offends them.

The word 'colored' is now considered offensive where once it was considered an improvement over another famous word, 'black' is now the accepted word. Some find the term 'African-American' offensive. The word 'queer' is now accepted where once it was an insult. 'Crippled' was replaced by 'handicapped', which was replaced by 'disabled', which some find offensive. There is always going to be someone offended by something.

What people find funny is always changing, as is our language and culture, and we learn as we go how to amuse or offend. I'm the kind of a guy who doesn't like to offend anyone intentionally, unless they are a republican asshole deserving of it. I'd rather make someone laugh than pissed off, its a fine line sometimes.

I don't really have much of a point here, except to say that humor is a fascinating thing to observe. Over the last few decades humor has become rougher, tougher, more hard edged, and the trend in comedy movies these days is to make sophomoric, stupid movies that appeal to 14 year old boys.

I've gotten in trouble making jokes about fat folks, and I am one, so I try to be more careful, I have little friends, so I no longer make little people jokes. If I tell a joke that offends a friend, I want that person to tell me, and I won't do it again, I'd rather keep a friend than lose one trying to be funny and bombing.

I like funny, but sometimes funny can be cruel.


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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have noticed, while I'm aging, that the younger generation seems to
be very immature, compared to years ago. I honestly think much of it is due to the influence of television. Sorry, I really do. Today's writers are young and many were in front of televisions as their babysitters for many years. Nothing is held back. Sad really, rarely do I put the tv on except for Keith and a couple of very well written and genuinely funny tv shows. Johnny Carson was one of the funniest guys on tv, he was an adult..sigh...I miss him.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I remember watching the Tonight Show with Steve Allen.
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 06:15 AM by Philosoraptor
THAT was funny.

Schmock Schmock!!!

Its embarrassing the silly t.v. shows I like.
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PetrusMonsFormicarum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. Humor has direct ties
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 06:37 AM by PetrusMonsFormicarum
to the parts of our brain where anxiety and fear are born. "Laughing" in chimpanzees is behavior utilized when one chimp is trying to gauge the emotional temperature of a situation and say to another, "Hey, it's cool, we don't need to fight here."

Cheap humorists specialize in lowest-common denominator jokes: excretory, sexual, alien/otherness. The reason is that these are things every one of us has in common. We all have to poo, get horny, and openly or secretly fear those things which are not familiar to us.

Sophisticated humor still exists alongside LCD, even thrives, but like garbage-spouting Conservative broadcasters vs. solid Progressives, one is a lot louder and gets all the coverage.

Edited for spelling!
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Humor can be a defense mechanism.
If you can make a stranger laugh right away, you've broken the ice and won him over, if you can make a potential enemy laugh, you may have saved your own ass.

The royals used to keep a little man around in a clown suit who could insult you or the king and get away with it, unless he slips one day, and its off with his head.

I love it when rush calls his bullshit a comedy show. I loved it when he was making fun of Michael Fox, what a funny guy.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. Bravo!
Excellent post,Philosoraptor. Is it just me, or does humor seem to be getting meaner and meaner as time goes on? I'm getting old, so that might be it. I love stand-up comedy but lately I find myself wincing at things that are said by stand-up comics. It seems to me that young people have become unkind; especially to each other.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The Flintstones morphed into the Simpsons.
I don't watch much stand up stuff, they all seem the same somehow. There's not a lot of wit in stand up, its all about timing and getting steady laughs for 1/2 an hour.

The old stand up comics weren't all that great either with a few exceptions, Buddy Hackett was funny, but I never liked Jerry Lewis's schtick.

I liked Richard Pryor, who was a spin off of Red Foxx, who used to be VERY raunchy before hitting the big time.

Red Foxx made party records, and one I remember had jokes about crippled people, cause Red said you never heard any good crippled people jokes, so he layed out about twenty in a row.

It was funny as hell, but it wouldn't go over today I don't think, but who knows?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Years ago
one of my co-workers and I were involved in community-based crisis response work. People deal with the stress that this type of work involves in a number of ways. One involves "dark humor."
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Gallows humor, sometimes called black humor.
Sometimes its better to laugh than cry.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Perhaps
the senator will announce today that his doctor is treating him for "restless leg syndrome."
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. ... and his optometrist is fitting him with stronger lenses.
:dunce:
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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. LOL
We had already thought of that punchline.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. Wow. I think that is the most info that you have revealed about yourself here.
:)
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. AIDS is finally funny!!!
I think the great thing about South Park is that it's really exploring the borders of what is funny and not of what is acceptable.

The thing to remember is that in the end it is the view of two people. I agree with them a lot but there are plenty of times when they are wrong and that is especially annoying when they use it in a "conclusion".

But hey, it's entertainment and its good to have somebody rattle the chains a bit from time to time.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/719/719160p2.html

As for stupid movies appealing to 14-year olds, when I was that age there was Porky's and National Lampoon. These flicks are really not that funny anymore.
Most humor loses its value over time. I personally think Laurel & Hardy were brilliant and still funny today but other than that I can't think of any comedians that survived the test of time.

Cruelty and humor go hand in hand. Whether it means getting squashed under a 1,000 lbs weight or being stereotyped to absurdity, the first joke was undoubtedly heard after Neanderthaler stepped in Mammoth poop. Laugh hurts.

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. .................
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. A sense of humor is best when accompanied by a sense of acceptance
'Cruel' humor needs to be accepted for what it is (humor) as much as humor to be cruel needs to be condemned because of what it is (cruelty). The hard part is knowing which is which and when.

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. ...............
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. .................
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. ..............
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm afraid to post on this thread for fear I will say the wrong thing
and offend someone. But, I'll give a shot at it.

It was a good read, though. Thanks for bringing the subject up about how humor changes..

I don't like much of the cruel humor these days. Witty humor is hard to do in the internet age, though.
Gallows humor which might be more appropriate for the time we live in doesn't translate well on an interactive site like this where what is said is often taken seriously and flamed.

Humor does seem to change...yet I can watch many old movies of folks like Harold Lloyd from the silent era and others from the early years of film and still find them very funny...mostly because there was alot of observation about the ridiculousness of human behavior that withstands the time test.

Fart jokes and other bathroom humor stuff kind of gets old after leaving high school. Although these days it seems some never leave high school. Trying to find a Birthday Card for an adult without a fart joke or some other snarky reference is getting harder and harder to do.

Look at who we have as P-Resident and it can kind of show what type of humor is "in" these days. He and his cronies have set a tone of what's acceptable.

Jon Stewart's pretty good, though, at hypocritical humor. KO, too.


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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I say the wrong thing more than I like to admit.
Words can hurt, I've hurt people with words, on purpose, and unintentionally, and I've been hurt by words too, we all have, its just in us.

I do love Laurel and Hardy and the silents, Jackie Gleason, The Munsters, The Stooges, Popeye the Sailorman, Betty Boop and Richard Pryor.

The last fart joke I laughed at was in Blazing Saddles.

Dying is easy, comedy is hard.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Yep...understand what you say. n/t
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. If one subscribes to the Judeo-Christian mythology, the first murderer made...
the first wisecrack-- "What? Am I my brother's keeper?"

I don't subscribe to that mythology, but I noticed that "fact" a long time ago
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. That Cain was a wise ass from the git go, but he was cursed, so...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. True, but even the good Judeo-Christian wise ass suffered a pretty horrible fate...
that Jesus was quite a smart ass himself
It's part of a tradition...or as my wife once wrote in a song:

Jesus Christ Lenny Bruce
Two no bullshit smart mouth Jews
He wouldn't shut up
He wouldn't shut up
Ah man, they were warned
One died in the air
One died on the floor
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Don't blame me I'm an Episcopalian...Compromise is our Name...n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. For me, humor is funny when it is making fun of me. Not deriding others.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. "Victim humor" is rarely funny.
IMHO.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. If a person slips on a banana peel, its funny, but not if you do it.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Point is...that humor that endures...is something we all commonly experience
and "slipping on a banana peel" (outdated) but another example is "by accident deleting your Registry on Microsoft Product" by pushing wrong button.. or not updating your Anti-Virus Software and trashing your Computer having to then walk into Best Buy and subject yourself to the humiliation of the "GEEK GUYS" who will FIX IT ALL...for a price...or steer you to the latest "Super Duper Best Buy Sponsered Computer Deal" so you can BUY NEW and have the "Geek Guys" transfer your old Hard Drive to the New...

NOW THAT'S FUNNY!

I can't understand why our "MODERN WORLD" has so FEW commedians who can translate and make FUNNY the whole Revolution with Cell Phones, I-Pods, Hard Drive Crashes, Battery Burn Ups and the 24/7 of our High Tech Business World (sucking the life out of American Workers) and find a WAY TO MAKE THIS FUNNY?

WHY THE HELL ARE WE SO SERIOUS?
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Phyllis Diller was great at self deprecating humor, as was Moms Mabley.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. I reserve potentially offensive jokes to friends
Something about the naughtiness of them makes them more outrageous. I'm not talking about making fun of true victims in our history and society; I can't find anything funny in those kinds of jokes. Case in point, I remember sitting in the lunch room with co-workers and the humour was really flying---much of it irreverent. Then one of our party made a joke that had some reference to Nazis and slavery and everyone got quiet. One of the most outrageous and irreverent of our group and I said something about "Okay, that stepped over the line" and then we went on discussing how it did.

I have done some comedy professionally and as an amateur and I find your OP interesting.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. I was at a bar last night, and walked into the bathroom
There were two guys in there fixing the towel dispenser and I looked around as I pissed and yelled out "There aren't any republican senators in here are there?" To which they both busted out laughing (and I live in a very red county in CA).

I wonder if some might see that in poor taste....
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. What about every "average American" viewer of Tee Vee Media
now approching their rest rooms on I-95 or other major road Rest Stops and hesitating before they go in...looking for "foot tappings" and other stuff after this media blitz of "educating us" as to where we should be careful?

It's like the Bird Flu Scare...only more "homey" because in Airports or on the Highways most Americans over Labor Day are all looking for Larry Craig to be in the "next stall." One step away.....:scared:

(I was trying to show the humor that isn't humorous to many folks today...) Please don't alert the Mods on this...:-( because it's what happens.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Tis cool - funny though, I have looked for all that for years - and surprise, was on a gay friend's
advice many years ago to me after my divorce.

I had never traveled before and was going from Ohio to CA. I was about as naive about some things as anyone could be (led a somewhat sheltered life and married young, and became more sheltered).

Not only did he help me map my route and watch the weather for me as I traveled (I would call him from pay phones here and there and he gave me updates) but he said "A lot of people at truck stops in the bathrooms aren't there just to pee".

During a talk about that (one small thing among many we were discussing) he made what was to me a good point on it all - there are no hotel receipts, etc, and there were many men who were married to appease family and society but were gay, and it all seemed like a logical thing - mens' room were just for men, and there were rest stops and such all over the place.

His own family still does not know he is gay (except his sister) and he even had a girlfriend once in high school (I didn't even know he was gay until some years later as he was in a band and talking about the chicks who were always calling him).

To me though - what he said makes a lot of sense. Parks and mens' bathrooms are good places that do not require ID and such, and if you are gay and in the closet it was a place to go safely where no one knew you or could out you (because it was anonymous).

I don't know if Craig is gay or not, but if he is then he should realize that coming out would make his life a lot better as there is a whole community waiting to accept him and understand him.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. It makes one rethink relationships one has had in the past
though...what you say. Looking back...I remember really nice I guys I dated ...and no one talked about such things then... But, I look back and wonder because I don't think any of us really know... We just connect with people who we can share thoughts and feelings with...and connecting in a "non-sexual way" in those times...we could do.

Now...it's something different.

Just thinking back on what you say ...and not wanting to say anything that would lock this thread...get it off track or whatever.

I hear and understand what you say.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. The way to do it is only at your own expense
Hal Roach is an Irish comedian, the dummy in his joke is always Irish.

In fact, the Irish are the only ones I've seen that can tell jokes on themselves.

Makes it hard for us to see why others get offended, I guess.

Fat jokes or jokes about women who are no longer considered attractive should bother me, but, while I don't think they are necessarily funny, I don't feel so offended that I no longer like the teller of the joke.
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