I don't want my taxes going to pay for your healthcare.

[liberaldemocrat7]

I don't want my taxes going to pay for your healthcare.

If some right winger tells you that, ask him or her to substitute the notion of

I don't want my taxes going to pay for your police protection or fire fighting

and if this right winger says he or she agrees with it, then they're really acting like a kook.


If the person objects and says no, we need tax money to go for policing and firefighting then tell the person by paying taxes for health care appears a logical extension of preserving life and health and I would even say this appears Pro life, and then you can accuse the right winger of not acting pro life. LOL.

If the kook still objects then tell him or her then you're merely telling us your twisted priorities in that you support tax payer supported policing and firefighting which by the way constitutes socialism, but they don't want everyone to share in needed health care.

Yes you can call the right wing kook a socialist LOL for supporting government suppoted police and firefighting.

[zanne]

1. I'd tell him I don't want to pay for religious programs.

I resent paying taxes for church-based counseling programs, etc., when the churches have wriggled out of paying taxes themselves.

[iamjoy]

5. I Don't Want To Pay For Your War

oh, that's the tax-payer funded abortion (comprehensive sex ed) counter argument.

When they say taxpayers shouldn't have to fund something they consider immoral, I would say that many people consider the war immoral.

[liberal N proud]

9. I will second your thoughts

[hobbit709]

2. A friend of mine became one of the antitax nuts

One day when he started ranting I told him that he better stop driving on the roads, flushing his toilet, using the city tap water, calling emergency services and take his kids out of school. I told him I don't mind paying taxes for things that are for the common welfare. I objected to paying taxes for illegal wars/occupation, welfare for the corporations, and other such. He doesn't talk to me anymore so at least I don't have to listen to his BS.

[Catherine Vincent]

7. He doesn't talk to you anymore because you probably made that idiot think.

And he's too proud to admit it.

[rodeodance]

3. I say you will pay later with chronic diseases--when they land in public hospitals or ER rooms.

[Double T]

4. The HMOs and their shareholders will be taken out of the health care........

profit equation. Instead of ALL of 'US' making payments to the HMOs, the payments MIGHT be acquired in the form of additional taxes. Regardless, the COST of health care should NOT cost Americans 16% on its way to 20% of the GDP. And YES, I would advocate for a pay reduction for Doctors across the board; it is a different America that has been created for 'US' and everyone must partake in the sacrifices the corporations and our government leaders have forced 'US' to make.

[LiberalFighter]

27. I wouldn't agree with an across the board cut for all doctors

But the fees doctors receive for their services will determine which doctors will have their pay cut. It should take into account the area the doctors serve such as very rural and very urban. Just because rural may be less costly doesn't mean there are enough patients to provide a living wage. Just because an urban area has more patients doesn't mean the fees should be less but it should also take into account other factors.

How many of the graduates from medical schools remain in the US to be doctors? If there isn't now should there be a requirement that students pay more if they move out of the country or return to their country?

What would be the best way to pay for health care? Will companies that now provide health care pay their workers more to offset the difference so those workers will not suffer a pay loss?

How much more money will go into the economy when more is available to the workers?

[Catherine Vincent]

6. That makes sense!

:thumbsup:

[China_cat]

8. I don't drive

why should my taxes pay for your roads?

[hobbit709]

11. Do you levitate?

Even if you walk you use a road.

[Telly Savalas]

22. I'm not sure how things are where you live

but around here if you walk on the road, you'll probably get hit by a car before too long.

[hobbit709]

29. I meant in terms of public roadways

Usually in the city that includes a sidewalk and out in the country there is a usually a shoulder so you don't have to walk in the middle of the traffic lane.

[fed-up]

25. I hope you have a farm w/animals & veggies-somehow your food/dry goods etc get to a market....nt

[China_cat]

32. Good grief...why do you have to hit people in the face with the

sarcasm smiley before they recognize it?

[iamjoy]

10. If They Are Compassionate...

merely misguided, you can bring them around another way too - through emotional manipulation.

Use a child as an example (an adult may have "made bad choices" and "deserve their situation")
The child has Type I diabetes. The parents have no health care, so the diabetes is not managed properly. The child goes into insulin shock and the parents drag him/her to the emergency room. Are you going to let that child die because the parents have no way to pay for it?

Only a beast would refuse the child life saving care.

Now, the thing is, that child's care is going to cost a lot of money. And if the parents have no way to pay for it do you know what happens? If you are injured or become ill and have to go the hospital, your costs are higher because the hospital has to recoup what it is losing on emergency care provided to the uninsured.

The thing is, we're paying for it anyway.

[cgrindley]

12. Like I've said before, we're going to have to redefine healthcare

there's no way we could have a socialized version of the US system. We have to stop over-prescribing drugs. We have to stop "disease mongering". We have to stop catering to people whose mental problems make them believe that they have physical problems. We have to force people to change their lifestyles (quit being so fucking fat) and so on. We have to move to a prevention-based health care model. We also have to let the elderly know that they're not at the top of the list of priorities. Everyone has to die eventually.

otherwise, yes, I think a lot of people will tell you that they don't want their tax money spent on your health care.

It's not like your comparison is even remotely good. It's not. It's a terrible comparison.

EG the fire department doesn't come by and hose down my house because I'm having a BBQ. nor do the police sit and watch TV with me at night.

I strongly support socialized healthcare, but like it is in Canada (my homeland) and the UK (where I went to school), it has to be rationed. It won't work the way most Americans think it will work, but few, if any, are willing to see logic on the issue. Especially not here at DU where people are simply trying to swim up De Nile.

[Donkeykick]

23. Reply.

there's no way we could have a socialized version of the US system. We have to stop over-prescribing drugs. We have to stop "disease mongering". We have to stop catering to people whose mental problems make them believe that they have physical problems. We have to force people to change their lifestyles (quit being so fucking fat) and so on. We have to move to a prevention-based health care model. We also have to let the elderly know that they're not at the top of the list of priorities. Everyone has to die eventually.

I'm curious about something here. First, are you a doctor? So you know just how much medication should be supplied to each individual, huh?

My mother has diabetes; I guess she is imaging that, huh. Do you have any idea as to how much money my mother and my father is paying out in health care? Do you? Let me put it this way for you, OK? They have their house paid off, right? Both of them will be making house payments for the rest of their lives because of health care! That's surely some way to go about living out your golden years, huh.:eyes:

Now you mentioned that we have an obesity problem, here in the good ole USA, right? Maybe we could pay for health a bit more easier if Ronald Reagan's trickle down theory would actually work. You know what I'm talking about don't you? If the rich would get up and leave the table instead of eating the whole meal then maybe some of that could actually trickle down!

Also, you mention that everyone has to die eventually, right? Does that include children as well? Or maybe you're one of these people that believe that you should first permit them to come in to the world and then kill them!:eyes:

[cgrindley]

24. Yeah yeah yeah

Another post more or less proving that Americans won't be willing to do what it takes to have a proper socialized system.

[Donkeykick]

33. Yeah yeah yeah

Thanks for playing!:nopity: :eyes:

[LiberalFighter]

28. My parents don't like taking all the medications their doctors have prescribed

Some of the medications cause side effects or make the problem worse and then they have to adjust the medications.

[jody]

13. "police protection" is misleading since SCOTUS says government is not obligated to protect an

individual unless she/he is in custody, e.g. CASTLE ROCK v. GONZALES.

Self-defense or protection of self is a personal problem.

The founders of our nation recognized that fact, e.g. Pennsylvania said in its constitution dated 28 Sept. 1776 "That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety."

I agree with the intent of your OP.

[liberaldemocrat7]

15. Not when a crime appears involved.

If someone shoots at you or invades your house, if you get to call 911, the police does not ask you for your credit card number or for cash or a check.

If you call in a fire at your house, the fire dispatcher does not ask you for your credit card number, or for cash or a check.

If you get sick you should get medical attention and not pay for it. Your taxes should go for paying such care, just like taxes pay for police and fire services when you need them.

No a policeman should not have to sit and protect you, nor should a fireman stand by when you have a BBQ, but in an emergency they do come to your aid.

With medical care we should emphasize prevention but every medical appointment or hopital stay and medications should get paid by the government through your taxes.

Next time you see a conservative, call him or her a socialist.

They support and pay for socialized policing and firefighting through their taxes. They pay for socialized defense forces in our military paid by our taxes.

[jody]

16. You say "Not when a crime appears involved" but SCOTUS says government is not obligated to protect

an individual even then.

See another case, DESHANEY v. WINNEBAGO “A State's failure to protect an individual against private violence generally does not constitute a violation of the Due Process Clause, because the Clause imposes no duty on the State to provide members of the general public with adequate protective services.”

[liberaldemocrat7]

17. Fine, but do the police ask for a credit card or check or cash before they will come?

No they don't. Whether they come or not appears another question but they do not ask you for payment and neither does the fire department.

[jody]

20. My point was your statement re "police protection". Self-defense is a personal problem and each

individual must pay for it, e.g. hiring security guards, bearing arms, avoid potential crime areas, etc.

In some cases, government does bill a victim for the cost of government agencies responding to an incident. See ”Searches revive debate: Who pays?”

Individuals may purchase insurance to minimize the cost of damage to self or property and government does subsidize certain high risk insurance items, e.g. National Flood Insurance Program.

[LiberalFighter]

31. Someone got that totally wrong.

If the state has no duty to provide the general public with adequate protective services then our taxes for that portion should be reduced.

BUT when the state and local government levy taxes to pay for that protection they have created a contract between the government and the citizens for those services. They have a duty and a legal obligation to protect the citizens in the community they serve.

[jody]

34. As I pointed out in #13 & 16 government is not obligated to protect individuals. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

35. So your saying that we as citizens elect candidates to reduce crime

and they initiate procedures and/or laws along with levying taxes against us for that purpose that the public is not entitle to a safe city?

Then why do we have police and fire and pay taxes for them?

[jody]

36. I say nothing more than I said in #13 and 16. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

30. Candidates campaign to reduce crime and voters support candidates that do.

Everyone pays for the service even if they all don't directly benefit. Indirectly, everyone does benefit.

Can you imagine the mess there would be if the police didn't control traffic violations and manage traffic accidents? Or firefighters and other emergency related were not providing service to those in traffic accidents?

Workers might actually have a bit more in their paycheck after taxes when we have universal health care. Small businesses that provided health care as part of the package might actually have a bit more money for investment and/or paying their workers a bit more.

[zanne]

14. If they followed their own philosophy...

They'd all die young. I don't understand the Libertarian mindset. How can you possibly grow to voting age without having the tiniest speck of compassion?

[meow2u3]

18. I don't want my taxes to go for your corporate profits

Especially those of Halliburton, Bechtel, and oil and gas companies!

[Cassandra]

19. Ask them if they are going to burn down their house...

to make sure they're getting their money's worth when paying for fire protection.

[MasonJar]

21. And for multitudinous years now I have not wanted my taxes to pay

for the military industrial complex and for the last 5 for the Iraq War.

[iamahaingttta]

26. They want ALL that stuff privatized...

...don't you get that yet?

Here in New York City, you can still occasionally see the Fire Badges attached to old buildings, from the days when the fire companies were private and you had to pay them to respond. Yes, that's the world the modern CONservative wants to live in. Want to call the cops? Better have your credit card on file or they won't respond. Paid the extra for premium service? They'll be there pronto!

It's not that they don't want police and healthcare and roads and firefighters - they want the opportunity to be able to make a profit from providing those services. That's the key. And, Corporatia has duped the rubes into believing that socialized services are evil and bad and one step from UN one world government. That's all just the scam to propagandize people into letting the privatizers privatize everything.

The typical right-winger has no idea what they are talking about, has no idea how socialized services benefits them, has no idea how privatized services would cost them so much more, and can really only parrot the sound bite that the privatizers feed them via FOX.

I think we need to find a work to replace the word "tax." That word has too many bad connotations to be discussed rationally.