If you believe democrats are complicit with republicans,

[cali]

and simply republican lite, why are you here? I'm genuinely curious why anyone who believes that, is on a site dedicated to supporting dems. And there's quite a few folks here, who have absolutely nothing good to say about ANY dem. So why not post on a board that supports greens or independents or socialists, or whatever?

Note: I am not saying anyone should leave du, that's not up to me, and even if it were, it's not something I'd do.

[shadowknows69]

1. Because DU has become a bigger thing than "The Party"for some of us

It is our shelter in the storm. Where our friends hang.

[cali]

6. That's a good answer n/t

[MisterHowdy]

2. I love the dialogue here.

I find it a much more reliable site for news and events
than anywhere else.

Don't get me wrong, I would always support a Democratic candidate
over a republican.
I just see the Democrats as the lesser of two evils.

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. ...

:wtf: You see ALL Democrats that way? :crazy:

[MisterHowdy]

12. No, not Kucinich.

I like him.

[Booster]

25. Best answer so far. I totally agree with you. I've come to the

realization that the approval rating of Congress is not a mistake - Americans are pissed because they aren't being represented by their party - either party. This is the only place we can vent - I don't know about you but all of my friends chringe if politics are brought up because they know I'm going to go off on ALL of the politicians. The complicity of the Dems in Wash is frustrating
and has not been explained good enough for me. It just seems like it's them against the rest of us, and I don't like it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Because I believe we have the power to change the party

[sellitman]

4. Dennis Kucinich isn't complicit.

ALL other Dems running are to some degree.

It's those Dems I will speak out against.

[sendero]

5. Because the realization..

.... has come slowly, and is just now dawning on most of us, after a year of majority has accomplished NOTHING.

The Dems have one last chance with the surge report, to DO SOMETHING.

If they don't raise their 18% approval rating, 2008 will be no slam dunk for anyone.

[DCKit]

18. The underpants, err, depends, err, independent party? Yay!!!! nt

[acmavm]

7. Because we ARE democrats and we think that the people who run, and

are elected as democrats should act like democrats. And they should stand up to the corruption, the lies, the crimes, and friggin' fight back. They should go back to what made the party great, not just a bunch of people who hold hearings that NEVER go anywhere, who vote to give this corrupt administration as much money as they want for illegal and corporate-sponsered wars, and who actually pass laws that allow the most corrupt bunch of bastards ever to usurp a goverment to spy on us like we are the criminals.

[spindoctor]

21. Yep. That's about it. Are we supposed to surrender our party to the GOP? I don't think so.

So we will bitch our hearts out when we deem that necessary and some of us will not vote for candidates that in our opinion (assuming we are still allowed to have one) do not represent our sentiments or what we believe should be the Democratic stance.

But rest assured, if things continue to go the way they do then you will find me in a different camp before long.

[zeemike]

8. I thought we were all here because we are progressives

I mean do we have to support Zell Miller just because he is in the party? Or are we expected to say noting bad about him?

[cali]

16. No, that's not the purpose of the site.

It is expressly a democratic site, not a progressive site. And Zell Miller's a bad example: He worked to defeat dems.

[Lars39]

17. Not so:

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

bolding is mine.

[Subdivisions]

20. And there are sure to be progressives that do not like

what some less-progressive Dems are doing.

One thing is for sure. Common ground among all Dem factions must be found in order for us to find unity and to deliver a concise message to fence-sitting voters between now and November.

[Fierce]

24. I'm not.

I'm a DFLer. But I'm not a progressive.

[stillcool]

9. I believe the democrats

are complicit, because I come here. This is where I learn. For me, it is not about personalities...it's more about reality. If I am no longer welcome here...let me know.

[EV_Ares]

10. Because this board is not the Freepers Board or Rwers or Republican

all lock in step the same way. It is a large group and different opinions or ideas on how to win back the WH. Maybe some bitch more than others but there is I believe a lot to bitch about as far as our Dem leadership right now. Personally I like having different opinions and take the good and throw out the bad and we are all better off for it.

It certainly doesn't mean they don't believe in the principles of the democratic party just because they disagree on how things are going now.

[cosmik debris]

13. To Take Back My Party

The best way to move the Democratic Party back to the values of FDR is to work with DU.

[rucky]

14. The power is not representing the populace. n/t

[The Stranger]

15. You have it exactly backwards.

The "Democrats" selling out their country, their Constitution, and their Party's values are also, at the same time, not representing (and are, at times, betraying) the Base of the Party.

We are the Base of the Party.

Therefore, Cali, THEY are the ones whom you should be asking, "why are you here?"

[G_j]

30. very well said

real food for thought

[EV_Ares]

31. Dam good point, well said; eom.

I got blasted by a poster because I criticized Conyers for caving on a matter. It was not just my opinion but those of many on various blogs and well intentioned people such as myself. However, I just let it roll off and I will continue to post things that I think will be to the benefit of the party in making it stronger and getting better focused on those such as ourselves at the base and grassroots of it.

[Individualist]

33. That's what I was going to say also

DLC wants to undermine the democratic party, so why are DLC supporters here?!

This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

[jgraz]

41. Absolutely perfect answer

If you don't want the Democrats to be, well, DEMOCRATS, what's the use of being on this board?

[Vidar]

45. Bravo!

[Subdivisions]

19. Cali, I think it has alot to do with people being

frustrated, disillusioned, and feeling helpless against the machine. We all work hard to gain Dems the majority yet our leaders seem neutered and some even totally disregard us, the constituents.

It's very easy to see why even the most hard-core Democrat would be angry. I've at times felt like throwing my hands up in the air and screaming "I'VE HAD IT!" and wanting to drop out of the realm of politics. But it's been the ability to discuss or read discussions about what has me frustrated that keeps me hanging in there.

The fact that our leaders have let us down with regard to impeachment and so many other things is what I believe is fueling discontent and that discontent sometimes reads through as Dem bashing. But all this is not to say we don't have some purposeful undermining activity going on.

[iamahaingttta]

22. This is the best place to get news.

Period!
I like some Dems, but not all.
I don't mind pointing out or learning about their flaws.
We are not monolithic and unthinking like the Repubs, so we criticize our own.
And who says that some of us don't also post on boards that support greens or independents or socialists, or whatever?

[Stinky The Clown]

23. I'd like to ask those same people if they think the Democratic Party has changed in 40, 60, 100 yrs

Do they think the Democratic Party is, today, fundamentally different from what it was in years/times past.

Is the party today different from the Kennedy/Johnson/Camelot/Viet Nam/Great Society/Civil Rights era?

Is the party today different from the Roosevelt/New Deal/Truman/Atomic Bomb era?

I'm not arguing against any particular 'progressive' viewpoint or goal. I'm just wondering how much people feel the 'old' Democratic Party was somehow better or more honest than today's version. I suspect the view back into history blurs things such that only the best memories leave strong impressions that overshadow even widely known facts.

I believe the Democratic Party has presided over the best of times and been there in the leadership when the best of ideas and ideals passed into law. But I also know that the Democratic Party has some indelible black marks, such as the use of the atomic bomb, the escalation of our involvement in Viet Nam to the war debacle it became, the flourishing of the white supremacist/racist movements across the country. The high inflation rates of the 70s.

And on and on.

I think the Party today is as flawed and dichotomic as ever. It is an amalgam of human realities.

[acmavm]

37. Tell me, can you list any eras when republicans were in charge and

pushed for civil rights, the poor, and the workers like you did when dems were in power?

Yep, the dropping the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were horrible horrible acts. I agree. Especially since I believe, along with many others, that Japan only had weeks before they would have had to surrender anyway. That's a story with a lot more behind it than the public generally knows about. It was also a message to Stalin. Not to get too full of himself. Because by that time England and America understood Russia could become a serious problem. Anyway, enough of that.

But the dems always cared about the working man, the Constitution, the poor, the elderly, minorities.

Now they don't care about anything but their own precious hides.

[Solon]

38. For the Republicans it was from the 1860s till the 1880s or so...

Freeman's Bureau, Reconstruction, etc. were all Republican, and oddly enough, largely liberal issues of the time. In addition they championed the working man, and in some cases even unions. Unfortunately they became as corrupt as the Democrats of the time as well.

Political Parties aren't static, the Democratic Party, for over a century, was the party of big business, slavery and segregation, etc. There wasn't a major change in the national party's direction until FDR came into office, and then later Johnson after that.

[acmavm]

46. I'm not talking clear back until just after the Civil War. I'm talking 20th,

21st Century. I should have made that clear.

[leftofthedial]

26. 1. not all Democrats are repuke lite--just most of them

2. the great traditions of the Democratic Party are still viable if we rank and file Democrats insist on reclaiming them

3. I enjoy watching the "my party right or wrong" and "love it or leave it" crowd foam at the mouth as they find themselves engaged in repuke-style cognitive dissonance over the destruction of the middle class, the preeminence of predatory corporations, the erosion of civil liberties and the illegal invasions and occupations of other nations in which the "democrats" are fully complicit.



Why do you stay?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. Because Greens Aren't Fullfilled Unless They're Falsely Attacking And Disparaging The Party.

Their whole gameplan revolves around attempting to steal dems away from the party by spewing their false and ignorant attacks, while acting like they have their best interests at heart. This is the perfect place for them to do it.

I personally find them to be monumentally ridiculous.

[mudesi]

28. Reality check: A lot of Democrats ARE complicit with Republicans

The Iraq bill. The FISA bill. The unwillingness to even consider impeachment.

Until liberals make up the majority of the Democratic party, the conservative one party system in America will continue to dictate.

[edhopper]

29. You're right

If the Dem leadership thinks we should keep giving bush everything he wants on the war, we should keep supporting that. If they think impeachment for Bush and Cheney are off the table, we should too. If they think that the Whitehouse is doing enough on for Katrina victims, we should be happy with the situation. So let's hear it for another 17 months of war, waste and corruption. If the Democratic leadership doesn't want to act, let's not ask them to do more.

:sarcasm: (put here for all the idiots who don't know sarcasm when they read it.)

[EV_Ares]

32. Hey there edhopper, a good one. eom.

[Robbien]

34. The real question is, why are these GOP-like people smarmily hiding in the Dem party?

DLCers/BushDogs use Dem money and Dem resources to get elected. They sneakily hide their corporatist traits behind a Democratic mask because they know if they showed their true GOP self to the voters, the voters would never pull the lever for their lobbyist loving/warmongering candidate positions.

[Katherine Brengle]

35. Lesser of two evils, and a few of them seem to be genuine.

Most politicians, regardless of party, are crooked as all hell.

I also don't believe in capitalism, but I'm still here even though that's supported by just about everyone in politics.

The Democrats hurt Americans less than the Republicans do, and for that, they have my support, at least until better options open up.

[Solon]

39. I agree with you, I wish Congress was full of people like Bernie Sanders...

or Dennis Kucinich. I find it ironic that the person to found the Congressional Progressive Caucus was an Independent who, nevertheless votes with the Democrats most of the time, and the guys who started the Blue Dog Coalition for Democrats bolted for the Republican party.

[BlooInBloo]

42. (OT) Hey - would you mind showing the gang that bingo card of yours...

... from the other week? They're talking about a similar thing here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1713051&mesg_id=1713780

[backscatter712]

36. My loyalty is to the people of the Democratic Party,

and most of all, to America, not to the politicians. It's the politicians job to represent the will of the people, and so far, they're doing a piss-poor job at it.

It's the people I stand with, that do believe in things like getting out of Iraq, not starting a war with Iran, getting rid of corporate giveaways like NAFTA, bringing us universal health care, decent education, and promoting a decent middle-class lifestyle for everyone. Pretty much the opposite of what the politicians are working for.

That's reason number one.

I'll give you a second reason. And that is I joined the Democratic party with open eyes, knowing full well I wasn't going to agree with everything that was being advocated by the party. I didn't join to follow the party. I joined to influence the party, and to make my own voice heard.

[BlooInBloo]

40. So they can say "I told you so, you naive children"

[LWolf]

43. For these reasons:

First, because I didn't actually believe that until I started spending time at DU. DUers themselves, and the reps they support, convinced me that the Democratic Party is complicit. My loss of faith occurred right here at DU. It happened when elected Democrats failed in their responsibilities, and when DUers and the Democratic Party excused, supported, and enabled that failure. Enabled it by defending, rather than holding them accountable.

Second, because the site as defined is supposed to be for "other progressives" as well as Democrats. It's not supposed to be affiliated with the Democratic Party. If that's true, then there should still be a place for those progressives disenchanted with the Democratic party. The Democratic Party doesn't "own" progressives.

Third, because a departure clears the field for those who are working to achieve what I see as the almost complete destruction of the party. I'm still a democrat. Why the hell should I submit to the corruption of my own fucking party?

And last: I do post at other boards. It's my choice to converse with a broad spectrum of people. Why would I restrict myself to one group of people? That narrows the discussion, and I'm not interested in doing that.

[Vidar]

44. I have plenty of good things to say about Kucinich, Feingold, Maxine Walters &

there are plenty of others. I can't say very much for any of the more powerful dems, however, at this point.