Catholic school discussion on immigration leads to "WHITE POWER!" chant

[Bluebear]

GOP Wedge Issue 2008, and what the children have learned from it.

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BROOMFIELD – It started with a simple question and ended with at least one student chanting "white power" in a classroom. It happened Tuesday in a classroom at Holy Family High School, the Catholic school that sits at the corner of 144th Avenue and Sheridan Boulevard in Broomfield. The classroom discussion started with the question: Why do students need to learn Spanish?

According to the Archdiocese of Denver, the conversation soon became about immigration and it turned ugly. "It became a heated discussion and some rhetoric was used that was inappropriate for the classroom," said Jeanette DeMelo, spokesperson for the Archdiocese of Denver.

At least one e-mail sent to 9NEWS said that at least one student started a chant of "white power" and some said that all Mexicans should go back to Mexico.

"Immigration is an explosive topic right now. It seeped into the classroom," she said.

http://www.9news.com/news/top-article.aspx?storyid=76418

[jody]

1. I wonder how the media would have reported the incident if it was " * power" where * is any ethnic

or racial group other than "white"?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. Please elaborate, I'm not sure I get your point. -nt

[jody]

3. No elaboration required, my question is understandable as written. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

4. Ah, the tried and true technique. Saying without saying. Nudge nudge wink wink.

You may think you didn't give additional information with that second post of yours, but you did. Thanks.

[jody]

6. Do you live in a fantasy world? Have a peaceful evening. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

31. I get it. It the common "reverse racism white folks are so badly treated" bullshit....

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.*





* c. Atrios, 2007.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

55. Let's just say I like to give 'em rope. -nt

[rudeboy666]

5. Differently, of course

Given the context, shouting 'white power' (as opposed to some other ethnic group)is obvious in its connotations.

[Bluebear]

26. Pardon me?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. He probably intended to reply to #1 instead of the OP. -nt

[Cleita]

7. Weird that anyone feels threatened by

the poorest and most disenfranchised population on the face of this earth. They should be fearing the corporations that are messing with everyone's livelihood instead. They should be shouting "worker power" instead.

[Critters2]

8. They're threatened by Darfur refugees?

Please. Mexico is not a poor country. It's a poorly managed country with a wealth of natural resources. And people who leave rather than work for change.

The poorest, most disenfranchised population on the face of this earth isn't in North America.

[Cleita]

11. I never said Mexico was a poor country, but those Mexicans

who risk all to come here to work as virtually slaves are the poorest of the poor with practically no rights on either side of the border. The sooner Americans realize this then maybe they might direct their anger to those fat cats who deserve it.

[Critters2]

14. They are not the poorest of the poor

In parts of Africa and South Asia, they'd be middle class or better. They're poorer than you, but in the great scheme of things, they're doing pretty well.

[Cleita]

17. What a stupid comparison.

Living in cardboard shacks, eating one meal a day and having to drink water polluted with sewage is hardly middle class in any nation.

[BlooInBloo]

12. Last I heard, it was Bangledesh. But it's quibbling, in any event.

[Critters2]

15. You may be right.

Either way, even the poor on this continent have it pretty good, in terms of the world population.

[Cleita]

18. Okay you go live in Tiajuana with no money among the poor people and tell

me how good it is after a week or two.

[Critters2]

22. The UN's list of the 30 least liveable countries

“Least Livable” Countries, 2006

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778562.html

1.Niger 16.Tanzania
2.Sierra Leone 17.Angola
3.Mali 18.Guinea
4.Burkina Faso 19.Nigeria
5.Guinea-Bissau 20.Rwanda
6.Central African Republic 21.Eritrea
7.Chad 22.Senegal
8.Ethiopia 23.Gambia
9.Burundi 24.Haiti
10.Mozambique 25.Mauritania
11.Congo, Dem. Rep. of the 26.Kenya
12.Malawi 27.Zimbabwe
13.Zambia 28.Yemen
14.Côte d'Ivoire 29.Lesotho
15.Benin 30.Djibouti

The residents of any of these countries would be grateful for a trip to Tijuana.

[Cleita]

23. Well, then why don't you take up a collection and bring them

to Tiajuana? You might be surprised though when they start jumping the border for better opportunities here in the USA as well.

btw What are you doing to change the way our government props up the regimes in those country who keep the population at starvation level?
Anything? Or would you just rather blame the poor who can't fight back. It's so much easier that way and our heartless regime loves you for doing so.

[Critters2]

24. Again, they're not that poor

How do you benefit from perpetuating the myth of Mexican poverty? I've been to Africa, I've seen real poverty, and spoken to people who live in it. Why aren't you working to bring the poor of Africa here as hard as you're working to bring Mexicans? Mexico is only on your radar screen because it's close. Like most Americans, you know nothing of parts of the world that you think don't affect you.

Again, Mexico is not a poor country.

[Cleita]

25. Then why all the hatred, the shouting of "white power" when

talking about speaking Spanish fer chrissakes? Is it because the immigrants take jobs that only white Americans should have? If they aren't that poor, why are they here risking their lives to make wages less than Americans are willing to work for?

[Critters2]

27. Because they are poorer than most (but not all) Americans

but on a worldwide scale, they're not even one of the 30 poorest nations. That's the UN's report, not mine.

The only reason you think of Mexico as poor is that you're comparing it to the US. Compare it to truly poor nations...nations without Mexico's rich and arable soil, petroleum mines, temperate climate, varied geography, mineral resources and other gifts...and Mexico comes out looking pretty good. And all Mexicans could benefit from those resources with a less corrupt government. But leaving there to come here is not going to reform the government. Indeed, that's why the Mexican government encourages emigration.

Oh, and African Americans suffer more from the loss of jobs to Mexican immigrants than white Americans. There's nothing progressive about encouraging illegal immigration.

But my question is for you...if Mexico is so poor, why doesn't the UN list it as a "least liveable nation"? They just didn't notice how poor it was? Really, I'd like to know why the UN doesn't think Mexico is in such bad shape. What do you know that they don't?

[Cleita]

29. I guess I don't get your point.

We were talking about Mexico and the reaction of a bunch of kids in Colorado to Mexican workers, who are very poor and in our neighborhood so to speak. What this has to do with Africa or any of the other countries you are bringing up I don't know. None of them are working here or speaking Spanish which seems to be what the issue was. So maybe you need to put up a separate post about those UN poorest nations to discuss it in context there rather than out of context here on this post.

[Critters2]

30. My point is that it's a myth to refer to Mexican immigrants

as the poorest of the poor. They simply aren't, but the Chamber of Commerce, Bush, the DLC, etc want you to think they are. So that you'll support cheap labor.

[Cleita]

32. It's not a myth. The poorest neighborhoods here in the USA

are African American and Hispanic neighborhoods and they are poorer than anyone here. They are the poorest of the poor here in America and because of their legitimacy issues have fewer human rights than African Americans. If you are too blind to see that then I guess those rose colored glasses work for something.

[Critters2]

33. You didn't qualify your "poorest of the poor" until now.

They drive cars, eat regularly, have jobs...things that people in Burkina Faso only dream of. But you can ignore the poor of Africa, because, well, it's Africa.

And African Americans are disproportionately losing jobs to Mexican immigrants. African Americans, as citizens, SHOULD have more rights than illegal immigrants. Those immigrants have rights in the land where they hold citizenship. Or, if they don't, they should work for change there.

[Cleita]

34. I don't have to qualify anything, but the context of the post

should have been a pretty big tip off. I can't argue with you anymore because you are just looking for a fight and it's counterproductive. Keep hating those people BushCo wants you to hate because it keeps their agenda on top. You are part of the problem.

[Critters2]

35. I hate the Chamber of Commerce and the corporations

I care about the American worker.

[Cleita]

36. Then blame the people and corporations who are keeping the American

worker unemployed or underpaid, not the other victims of those same people and corporations.

[Boojatta]

42. Didn't post #7 of this thread include at least a tiny bit of an exaggeration?

"Weird that anyone feels threatened by the poorest and most disenfranchised population on the face of this earth."

Remember what Fletch said: "It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong and I am NOT a big man."

[Cleita]

50. It is weird but not unusual. History is full of the weakest

members of society being blamed for the ills of those who are so much better off. Think of the witch hunts of the Middle Ages. How much easier is it to blame women for social ills than confront probably armed men for the same blame.

[Boojatta]

53. Was "the poorest and most disenfranchised population on the face of this earth" a reference

to people in America who have Mexican ancestry?

[Cleita]

59. In this particular reference it was those of hispanic, not

necessarily Mexican ancestry. Since white Americans like to lump everyone who speaks Spanish into one category, usually as Mexicans, I was speaking to those who think everything south of the border is Mexico. Poor Bolivians are just as poor and disenfranchised as poor Mexicans but they are because of geographical distance unlikely to be in Colorado in the same numbers as poor Mexicans, Guatemalans or El Salvadorans. btw, let's talk about Haitians, very poor and disenfranchised, but they speak French not Spanish. Will there be a call for "white power" when schools ask if French should be taught?

And for you "white power" nitpickers who wish to parse my words, let's just say you are the problem not me.

[Boojatta]

60. What's hispanic ancestry?

Does that mean that some of one's ancestors spoke Spanish? Does it mean that one's ancestors come from such places as Spain, Mexico, Central America, and South America?

(Example of a difference between the above two guesses: some Brazilian ancestors might have spoken no Spanish.)

When you use the term "nitpickers" are you acknowledging that you made an error?

If the "nitpickers" are the ones who are making an error, then are they making a small error?

[Cleita]

61. Why don't you tell me? I didn't invent the term, yet it shows

up pretty consistently when one must fill out forms. Hispanic is a racial designation along with caucasian, asian, native american and african american. If I acknowledge making an error I acknowledge making an error. I have done nothing of the sort. People on this thread who are anti-immigrant are trying to portray the poor immigrants spoken of in Colorado as being better off, even middle class compared to Dafur, which has nothing to do with the thread.

[Boojatta]

62. Isn't there a difference between a thread hijacker and a nitpicker?

[Cleita]

63. Since you are defining the terms here, you tell me. n/t

[Boojatta]

64. When was I defining terms here?

I usually find it more helpful to focus on an idea that I had and find a variety of ways to improve the way I expressed it than to define terms that I used the first time I tried to express it.

I also put more effort into identifying issues than trying to persuade people to take one side of an already identified issue.

[Critters2]

65. Actually, Haitians speak Creole, which is not French

Trust me. I've tried speaking French with Haitians. Creole is close, but it's not French.

[BlooInBloo]

28. Just because someone is poorER does NOT mean "they're not that poor".

[BlooInBloo]

20. (shrug) It's like the 5'2" person calling the 5"1" person "short", to me - pure quibbling.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Weird that it was/is exactly the same with their feelings about black folks....

... Some things never change.

[Cleita]

13. Yes, the irrational hatred has been effectively transferred to

those newer bottom of the economic ladder workers. It's time to put the blame where it really belongs with the corrupt governments that our country supports south of the border and our own corrupt officials who make sure that things never change. It's so much easier to get a scapegoat or too who can't fight back so that they can get on with the business as usual that they conduct in the shadows and at the expense of the workers of all nations.

[treestar]

39. Kucinich puts this very well

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Dennis_Kucinich_Immigration.htm

[Cleita]

52. Yes, and this is one of the reasons Dennis gets my money and

will get my vote in the primaries.

[Boojatta]

9. Question: Why do students need to learn Spanish?

I think it was because of Spanish colonization of what used to be called the "New World." Now, given that Spain is and was European ("white"), one might abbreviate my answer with two words: "white power."

[Cleita]

16. Why do they need to learn any language?

It doesn't have to be Spanish but it should be some language just so we don't remain the most ignorant people on the face of this earth. We are the only industrial nation in the world where our citizens don't learn to speak two or more languages.

[Boojatta]

19. In various industrial nations citizens learn this second language: English.

[Cleita]

21. Yes, they do so why don't we learn the widest spoken language

in this hemisphere known as Spanish since we already speak some weird dialect derived from English anyway? Hmmmm? However, if Spanish isn't what the person wants to learn, there is German and French also widely spoken in various countries around the world. Or here's a thought. How about the language of our new overlords, Mandarin Chinese?

[Boojatta]

48. "It doesn't have to be Spanish"

Were students given a choice? If there were choices, then I would expect someone to ask "Why do I have to study a second language of my choice?" rather than "Why do I have to study Spanish?"

[Cleita]

51. I don't know how they run the schools today, but in my day

you had a choice of Spanish, French or Latin. The choice you didn't have was not to learn another language if you wanted to go to college. That was required. From what I understand you don't have to take a language anymore in high school to go to college so I don't understand the vitriol. However, from a practical point of view, it would seem smart to me to learn the second most spoken language on this hemisphere besides English, which is Spanish. Just saying. If English speaking people learned Spanish, then maybe they wouldn't have to worry about what "they" are saying because they would understand.

[amandabeech]

54. Elsewhere, I read that Spanish is required, not optional.

I took Spanish in college because it seemed practical, and I wish that I retained more of it.

Nonetheless, I oppose requiring a specific language unless the school's program is intentionally geared toward immersion in another culture. I have heard of "French" private schools. If that is the case here, I think that the orientation toward Spanish should be explicit. Otherwise, I think that students could easily be required to study A language of their choice. Like Mandarin, for example. Or Arabic.

[Boojatta]

57. According to some people, "because you are under 18"

would be a satisfactory reason for them to be required to study Basque if school authorities in some state decided that all students in that state should study Basque rather than Spanish.

I started a thread on the general topic about two weeks ago:

When should a young person be permitted to choose what to study?

[DemBones DemBones]

37. One high school student says something stupid and it's news?

High school kids will say stupid things, I'm sure we can all think of examples. The kid probably thought he was being funny.

The teacher should have stopped the discussion as soon as the first anti-immigration remark was made but teachers make mistakes.

The principal investigated and it seems like much ado about nothing.

Holy Family Principal Sr. Mary Rose Lieb, O.S.F. released a statement on Thursday evening about the incident:

"On Tuesday in a Spanish-language class at Holy Family High School, a single handful of students used heated and inappropriate rhetoric in a discussion on immigration. In a class of approximately 30 students, fewer than six students voiced strong anti-immigration opinions. The remaining two-thirds of the class were silent or voiced support for immigrants. At the end of the discussion, one student inappropriately said "white power," two or three times. Most of the students in the class did not hear the comments. Contrary to media reports, there were no chants by more than one student. Two students, who were offended, asked to leave the classroom and were given permission to leave. However, the discussion ended when other students realized how these students were affected and all of the students remained until the end of class."

"When the administration received a complaint regarding this discussion, interviews were conducted of the students in the classroom as well as the teacher. The student who acted inappropriately was disciplined and the situation has been addressed with the teacher."

[Bluebear]

38. I'm not surprised in the least that you don't think it's noteworthy.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. I taught high school too long to get

in a self-righteous uproar over one high school kid acting stupid.

Why do you think it's noteworthy?

High school kids say stupid stuff all the time. I taught in one school that was about a third black students, two thirds white, and most of the kids got along very well.

I had to deal with a couple of incidents of white students saying something racist and I guarantee you they knew not to ever say such a thing in my class again. I did the same with some kids who made fun of a boy with cerebral palsy and a girl with Down syndrome. If we'd had any Hispanic students, I'd certainly have defended them just as strongly. I did not put up with kids taunting each other at all.

In this case, most students in the class didn't even hear the kid say "White power." Some kid who did told on him, possibly for reasons having nothing to do with what happened that day.

As I said, the teacher should have stopped the comments about immigration right away and gotten them back on topic but teachers make mistakes because they're human. This may have been a new teacher.

The principal investigated and dealt with the offender and the teacher.

What do you want? To have the boy and the teacher shot?

[Bluebear]

41. "Self-righteous uproar" - yeah, people should "get over it".

Yeah, I want the teacher and boy shot. What a piece of work.

[DemBones DemBones]

44. Look, you can't unring a bell. The school is

doing all they can, as far as I can tell, to let the students know this isn't acceptable, and to tell the teacher not to let a discussion get out of hand.

If I were the teacher I'd have been on that kid like white on rice, but did the teacher hear what he said?



If you dislike me so much, put me on Ignore and you won't have to read my posts.

[Bluebear]

47. OK

[BlooInBloo]

43. The only "problem" is that people expect something better from religious people...

... if you simply change that expectation, all surprise vanishes.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

58. Oh please, lol. I go to a Catholic Highschool

Pretty much half of the people are slutty (Sleeping around, doing the whole 'cheating' thing, although in a teenage relationship, I don't really know how much that even counts), and the other half are potheads and wanna-be 'thugs.'

Fun people to hang around with usually though.

[Swede]

45. How does one student make it a chant?

:shrug:

[Bluebear]

46. Well, one person can chant. However:

...a single handful of students used heated and inappropriate rhetoric in a discussion on immigration

[Boojatta]

49. Either it's a big hand or those are small students.

I blame this whole incident on racist dwarves.
:hide: