Tell me this is NOT happening in TN to a good congressman like Steve Cohen.

[madfloridian]

And over his support of the hate crimes bill? I just happened on this article. I hate to think this is going on in this country. This is a shocking article, but at least the poll there on the page is mostly in favor of Cohen.

This administration has done a powerful and ugly scapegoating on the rights of the gay community using pastors in their pulpits. He has blended church and state dangerously, and now Steve Cohen will have to pay a price for supporting a bill that targets hate crimes.

Hard to believe our own Democrats will do this to each other. I am most certainly not against primary opponents but there should be a good reason...and this is NOT an honorable reason. And if race is involved also then it becomes even less honorable.

Cohen meets with black ministers over his support of the hate crimes bill

Tempers flared and emotions erupted Tuesday at a meeting between U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen and a group of black ministers, stemming from the freshman congressman's support for a federal hate crimes bill.

More than 100 ministers and guests showed up Tuesday for the weekly meeting of the Memphis Baptist Ministerial Association, where Cohen had been invited to speak. During a volatile question-and-answer forum that followed, many loudly commented that Cohen, who is white, can't adequately represent the primarily black Ninth District.

Things got out of hand and fortunately the forum will send him an apology. But it looks like Harold Ford had the same stance on the bill as Cohen does. So comments like this show how much the Bush administration has allowed church and state to blend in a dangerous way.

Cohen later suggested the meeting had been a setup, as a way for Nikki Tinker supporters to gain momentum. Tinker, who is black, lost to Cohen in last August's Democratic primary by 4,459 votes. She has already started a bid to challenge Cohen in 2008 and also has spoken to the ministerial association.

..."And that's the problem, some said. Many expressed concern that the legislation could prevent them from preaching against homosexuality and expose them to lawsuits.

"If this becomes law, then the gay advocates will start suing preachers for preaching what they (gays) see as hate," said Apostle Alton R. Williams, pastor of World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church. "It's not political. I'm just concerned about what it will possibly do to the Christian church."

How very hateful those comments are and scary. That person thinks it ok to preach against a group of people from the pulpit. How far down the hate road we have come.

Steve Cohen in everything I have read or seen sounds like he is doing a good job. Is it that one issue that is turning so many against him, or are other things entering in.

Sounds like Nikki Tinker is getting a lot of donations without saying much about what she stands for.

Memphis Maneuvers

At the moment, Nikki Tinker, a lawyer who is vice president of labor relations for Northwest Airlink/Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., has been the most visible potential Democratic challenger.

Tinker came in second to Cohen in the 2006 primary and her substantial financial support from EMILY's List gave her a significant fundraising advantage over her fellow black contenders. She also is close to some members of the powerful Ford family, having served in 2004 as campaign manager to then-Rep. Harold Ford Jr. (D) in his last race for the seat that Cohen now holds.

"Nikki is still running," said the Rev. LaSimba Gray, pastor of the 2,000-strong New Sardis Baptist Church in Memphis, a Tinker supporter. Gray, who headed Concerned Clergy and Citizens of Memphis, added: "She's talking to everyone -- visiting political groups, city groups, churches. She never did stop campaigning."

Ramona Oliver, a spokeswoman for EMILY's List, which works to elect women Democrats who support abortion rights, said that Tinker has told the group's leaders that she is interested in running again.

I guess Emily's List is following their policy to run a woman against even a pretty progressive male candidate. That reminds me of NARAL's continued support for Joe Lieberman even after Ned Lamont was the Democratic candidate.

Sounds like a trouble coming for Cohen. And it sounds ugly and unnecessary.

[ruggerson]

1. Sounds like DU

But I'm sure there was no homophobia involved. They all sound like delightful people.

[madfloridian]

2. I'll be watching Emily's List closely.

I got my donation back from NARAL, and I will do the same for EL. They are starting to make some questionable endorsements. Yes, DU has been very thoughtless lately.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. I have grave problems with Emily's List.

I saw them turn their back on a great woman Dem who was running for congress. Twice.

It is my opinion that E's : is pretty damn useless and I find some of the things they do and candidates they throw in on troubling.

[madfloridian]

7. I used to trust them.

I called NARAL when they kept supporting Lieberman, and they were absolutely determined not to support Lamont in any way.

I have donated to EL frequently, but getting doubts now.

[Bolo Boffin]

4. What Cohen should do is play the Republican card.

After all, bashing Democrats for their stance on gay rights is a Republican tactic.

And the objection is for crap. Nothing in the bill would keep a preacher from being a bigot in the pulpit. Cohen should be using that line, too.

You would think a preacher of the gospel of the Prince of Peace would think twice about preaching a sermon that might incite someone to violence against gays, though. Who's going to lead the music ministry?

[Wiley50]

5. I'm in TN and Steve Is a Great guy. This is Pure Crap

Steve was the Guy who said the most truth in the Senate Judiciary when Harriet Myers was a No show.

Truth enough that Randi noticed and had him on her show, Twice!

He had been in the state legislature here for years

and was the major force here behind medical marijuana

(which we don't have just yet)

and the education lottery

(which we do)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. I've been watching all of the hearings and Cohen rocks! He has impressed me as

Whitehouse has impressed me on the Senate side.

Me thinks that somehow beneath this story are GOP dirty tricks.

[southerncrone]

6. Steve Cohen is terrific! This is an example of reverse prejudice.

I might add that Mr. Cohen is Jewish, & the ministers are Christian. As was brought out in the article, this tactic has been used quite successfully by the Neocons...use the Christian voters as a block vote.
Mr. Cohen, being a freshman representing a predominantly Black district, was a handy target for possible defeat. Remember how Conservative Harold Ford, Jr. voted? Neocons need another vote to help them along on occasion. Steve Cohen probably won't be that vote, however, this Tinker woman might be.

The Ford family controls Memphis, it's surprising that Cohen was elected at all in that district. It's a testimony to how good a Democrat he really is.

Maybe Mr. Cohen should consider running against Lamar Alexander for his Senate seat. If Steve Cohen is defeated, we have all lost a true Patriot in Congress.

[loudsue]

10. Harold Ford is a great deal of what's wrong with the Dem party DLC's.

If his corrupt family is that powerful, it's time they were taken down a notch or two. Ford has been trying to displace Howard Dean as head of the DNC. I can't stand the dude.

:kick:

[Clark2008]

42. Actually, no he hasn't.

That was something that smart ass James Carville said - completely out of turn.

I'll agree that the DLC is what's wrong with the Democratic Party, but I do have to correct you in saying Ford's trying to oust Dean as chair of the DNC. Ford's head of the DLC.

[dickbearton]

44. I 'm from Memphis...

Cohen is a good man and Ford is not.

[NashVegas]

13. Cohen Was A Shoe In for the General Election

He's been doing good, for Memphis, in Tennessee legislature for well over a decade. He's very well liked in Nashville, for the most part.

[madfloridian]

17. Do you know who is behind the Tinker campaign?

Who would be pushing something using such ugly tactics?

[NashVegas]

18. 'fraid Not

..

[rockymountaindem]

35. But if it's Ford and the DLC, that can't be good news

Although, according to this thread, Ford and Cohen are on the same side of this issue.

[Clark2008]

43. Why, the Ford family, of course.

http://skepticalbrotha.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/nikki-tinker-a-twenty-first-century-white-rose-mammy/

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. Kick. nt

[cali]

9. Such a sad story

I've read several articles about this contretemps. It looks like some racial shit is at play here too. Several comments were evidently made about how only a black person could represent the community.

[flashl]

11. FBIs hate crime reporting system must first be fixed

In 2006, the FBI released its 2005 hate crime statistics. Several anti-discrimination groups severely criticized them for its inaccuracies. Instead of reporting increases in hate-crimes as recorded by many groups, the FBI’s report showed a decrease in hate crimes. Critics found that the FBI report was incomplete and lacked data from several large police departments around the country.

After being called on the carpet for its incomplete report, the FBI used some lame excuses about computer problems and personnel shortages and the report was never corrected. Also, the FBI has acknowledged that its Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program is broken. And, it was noted that state laws are not consistent in hate crime categories and definitions. Under current laws, there is a lack of equality in the reporting of hate crimes.

Years ago, the Southern Poverty Law Center reported that the FBI hate-crimes data collection effort is "in shambles."

Practically everyone in the civil rights community already knows that the Justice Department is not doing its job of enforcing civil rights laws.

When the current systems for hate crimes are used as intended like actually recording and reporting crimes as hate crimes and enforcing civil rights laws, then a newer hate-crime bill will make sense.

[Celebration]

12. I feel qualified to respond to this

Cohen is my representative. There is no politics in Memphis without race being heavily involved. It is as simple as that. The black churches and ministers have traditionally had a lot of control over Memphis Democrats, and they obviously aren't comfortable with Cohen. It is probably only a matter of time before Cohen is defeated in the primary here. I have a lot of problem with the politicians in this county. We have a nutty mayor (who happens to be black) who at least seems strung out most of the time, and angry. He has been in office something like a gazillion years. He will probably be re-elected because the opposition is divided, and not that strong. One candidate did get tested for all sorts of drugs, hoping to put pressure on the opposition to do the same. Well there is probably a reason nobody took him up on it, but nobody seems to care. Several black Democratic politicians have been successfully prosecuted for being on the take (thanks to a sting operation, and I have no problem with that). All in all this is a place that is very discouraging. I have to vote with this in mind.........who is the least insane........and usually the person I vote for loses. Those are just the facts as I see it.

[madfloridian]

19. Oh, what a sad post. Sounds so discouraging.

The "divided opposition" like you speak of in that area is what is going to kill our Democratic party's chances in every area. It has become a syndrome of trying to be like the other side.

My sympathies. It is bad enough where I live with all the fundamentalist churches in control, and I don't have any Democratic politicians to support except Bill Nelson.

Thanks for the post.

[Celebration]

31. Here is one Ford--a state Senator

Poor Ophelia. She needs to go dry out. I think her family wants to help her. But should she be a state senator? It's an embarrasment. It's made the rounds of emails here. Honestly, it is a miracle that Harold Jr. turned out so well. In comparison, I mean, I may not agree with everything he does, but he is somewhat sane and probably honest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr65cTyxxkk

His uncle John is going to jail for awhile.

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7012614

[plantwomyn]

15. One of the problems with this is they are ministers.

These ministers have bought into the repugs BS that tells them that hate crimes protection for gay people threatens their civil rights. Although I cannot understand why these "God fearing Christians" would demand the unalienable right to preach hate and violence in their churches or on the streets of the U.S. The neocons have given these churches money to promote their religious agenda and now have convinced these "sheep" that if gays are protected blacks are not. They win again. They divide our base and conquer. It makes me sad because I marched for civil rights in the 60s and 70s and now they have turned their backs on my demand for equal protection.

[cali]

16. Bringing the neocons into this is just laughable.

It's about as close to the truth as saying it's the boogyman doing this.

[ruggerson]

23. It may not be the neocons, but is sure as hell is the religious right

they have reached out to black churches, especially in the South, in the common bond of homophobia. The RR's agenda? To get more blacks to vote Republican. SO they once again use a mutually despised minority group to drum up support from black ministers.

[cali]

24. Of course. And facts matter. Neocons does not =Christian right n/t

[madfloridian]

26. When churches preach war and hatred from the pulpit.

then they are doing the bidding of the neocons. The faith based initiatives gave this administration a foothold in churches.

We know that Bush has had meetings with evangelists about the dangers of Iran...some of the same groups who are pushing hatred toward the gay community.

They are using it to "rally their base". They don't care they are spreading hate. So in that sense it is the neocons involved.

Bush is using religious right leaders to push the danger of Islam, Iran.

[cali]

27. Sorry, you're just wrong here.

Neocons are primarily concerned with foreign policy.

[wellst0nev0ter]

40. They Are Also Concerned About Upholding "Traditional Values"

not that they believe in them or anything, it's just a useful tool to keep the sheeps in line

"Ignoble Liars" by Earl Shorris

[plantwomyn]

25. Read first critique later

The neocons have given these churches money to promote their religious agenda........
Nowhere do I say that neocons=christian! My point is that the black churches have allowed themselves to be diverted from their own cause which I was lead to believe is to be Christian i.e. "Christ like". I have yet to hear anyone quote Jesus saying "Love thy neighbor unless they're Gay"

[cali]

30. Look, the point is that neocons is the wrong descriptive.

That's it, and you have given me no evidence to suggest that neocons have given those churches money.

[dickbearton]

45. Cali, your just wrong , the neocons have a domestic agenda...

As for evidence, you won't see any; until you first, pull your
head out of your ass.

[flashl]

20. Ignoring blacks objections is the problem

"I was not treated the way a congressman or an elected official or an invited guest should have been treated," Cohen said afterward. "It was supposed to be my time to come and address this issue. I never expected anything like this."

He acts as if he expected that he was coming to meeting where he was going to give a speech and leave. This suggests to me that Cohen obviously have not attended many black townhall or political meetings where the audience tends to get very vocal and passionate about their opinions.

Dr. LaSimba Gray, pastor of New Sardis Baptist Church and president the local chapter of the Rainbow PUSH Coalition, told Cohen that the ministers' group opposed the bill and members were offended by suggestions that the black and gay communities are somehow connected.

"In all my 40 years of civil rights work I've never seen a gay water fountain and I've never seen a gay entrance to a building," Gray said. "We have a right to be apprehensive about this bill and say it's not necessary."

BINGO!

Personally, I think what the gay community continues to ignore is protests from the black community when statements have been that correlates blacks civil rights struggles with the gay movement. Gay activists comparisons of blacks efforts to be free from racial oppression is the source of backlash in the black community.

This backlash has been painted merely as the black church and ministers being homophobic and it ignores centuries of conservatism in the black community. To say that the NeoCons changed blacks opinions ignores blacks historical attitudes and struggles with homosexuality.

[madfloridian]

21. There is a difference. You totally miss an important point

Your post is missing the utter outrage we should all feel about ministers of ANY color standing in pulpits and preaching against the gay community.

Black or white or whatever, ministers should not be preaching hate from the pulpit.

[flashl]

36. A difference of what?

My post highlighted an undercurrent within the black community that existed long before 'gay rights'. It wasn't right then and it is not right now. And, my outrage about treating others as if they are children of a lesser God didn't begin when it was fashionable to speak up.

[ruggerson]

22. Coretta Scott King

made those same links between the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement. As have a number of other black leaders.

You're giving cover to homophobes. These people are BIGOTS. Wake up.

[flashl]

37. I give cover to no one

While it is true that Coretta King supported gay civil rights that does not means that blacks have a “leader” that speaks for all 30+ million.

[ooglymoogly]

28. Hope this backfires on the perpetrators

NARAL is on my black list...everytime I get an email from them I blast them for the Lie-butmann thing.
and the same goes for Emily's list....kn

[last_texas_dem]

29. It's sad

that certain prominent members of one long-persecuted minority group are getting so passionate in (incorrectly) fearing that hate crimes legislation would prevent them from being able to be bigots from the pulpit against another long-persecuted minority group. These supposedly religious folks have some truly messed-up priorities, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if this whole thing is just a manufactured controversy to promote another candidate for the district for reasons other than differences in ideology.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I couldn't understand why Black ministers would object to this bill

and then I found this is the article:

"If this becomes law, then the gay advocates will start suing preachers for preaching what they (gays) see as hate," said Apostle Alton R. Williams, pastor of World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church. "It's not political. I'm just concerned about what it will possibly do to the Christian church."

So this is more crazy fundies imposing their version of morality on the rest of us. Damn, I hate these people.

[madfloridian]

33. You got it. That bill will prevent them from preaching hate from the pulpit

Isn't that amazing how it all comes out in the end? It is unbelievably ugly, and yes, it has happened here in America.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. And Black ministers are definitely turning RW

At least SOME of them. Our congressman from the KC area is a Black minister and he is very progressive. But there are many in MO who are not. And they nearly cost us the stem cell initiative last November as well as Claire McCaskill's election.

[provis99]

38. it used to be open season on Jews in black churches in Mississippi

When I lived there, I remember thinking how ironic it is whenever a new news segment would show up on Jackson tv of a black preacher in the delta preaching that Jews were "Satan's Children" (in the words of one from Clarksdale) or some other such nonsense. To hear them preaching hatred against gays too is not news to me. It seems to be a fact of life that whenever a minority starts to gain acceptance in America, they turn on other minority groups who are still oppressed. Nothing new there.

[SemperEadem]

39. it goes beyond that

"That person thinks it ok to preach against a group of people from the pulpit"

Not only that, but those ministers believe that they are somehow to be granted the very thing they perceive is being granted to and they themselves are denying to the targets of hate-crime bills--an imagined special class status.

And the people from EMILY's list should be ashamed of themselves for supporting Tinker. They should have pressure brought to bear upon them to withdraw all of their financial support from Tinker because she is an abomination to the political process if she is actively courting support from an organization to deny the rights of liberty and security of one's own person to another body of people.

After all, I'm sure the ministers would also contend, if you pushed them hard enough to the wall, that "For who can deny but it is repugnet to nature, that the blind shall be appointed to lead and conduct such as do see? That the weak, the sick and impotent persons shall norish and keep the whole and strong? And finally, that the foolish, mad and phrenetic shall govern the discret and give counsel to such as be sober of mind. And such be all women, compared unto man in bearing of authority. For their sight in civil regiment is but blindness; their strength, weakness; their counsel, foolishness; and judgment, phrensy, if it be rightly considered."

Yes, the ministers should be held accountable for inciteful speech should they be so proud as to utter it from their pulpits--if not through the law, then through taxation; but they may not dodge the law at their whim when other taxpayers may not do so.

[DeeDeeNY]

41. Was it Steve Cohen who spoke to the empty chair when Miers ignored her subpoena?

I think that was him, and I thought it was a great move on his part.
I consider it an insult as a woman when organizations think that all I care about is having a woman in office no matter what.
As for Naral, every time I get a solicitation letter from them, I take satisfaction in writing back that I will no longer contribute because of their Lieberman support in 2006.

[ingac70]

46. God damn churches...

They refuse to read the bill and see that their hateful speech is protected. Either that, or they have plans to rape and murder people simply because they are gay.

[RubyDuby in GA]

47. These people might want to take a look at the words of a TRUE civil rights icon

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/coretta.html

"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. - Reuters, March 31, 1998.


They just want to preach hate from their pulpits. It raises more money that way.

[madfloridian]

48. A great woman. Coretta Scott King.

"I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. - Reuters, March 31, 1998."

Her words put those TN ministers to shame.

[RubyDuby in GA]

49. Exactly. Actually she puts her own daughter to shame

Her daughter, the reverand, also preaches hate against the GLBT community here in Atlanta. Coretta started speaking out when her daughter started acting out and organizing marches against gays. The apple fell way far away from the tree there.