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In 2004, John Warner, promised Americans a full investigation into Abu Ghraib torture. Didn't happen

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 07:22 AM
Original message
In 2004, John Warner, promised Americans a full investigation into Abu Ghraib torture. Didn't happen
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20070901/OPINION/709010662/1030

The Sgt. Schultz defense

Of Abu Ghraib abuse, the supervisor apparently knew nothing


The U.S. Army's failure to take strong action against officers for abuses and failures at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq sends a troubling message to every rank-and-file soldier: They are likely to be held held accountable; officers are not.

That sad commentary shows why investigations of Abu Ghraib, which was operated by the U.S. military in post-invasion Iraq, should be revived by the Senate and House Armed Services Committees.

In 2004, the Republican chairman of the Senate committee, Virginian John Warner, promised Americans a full investigation. Didn't happen.

Congress shouldn't let the matter drop, because doing so would echo the Army's unconscionable message.

Eleven low-ranking soldiers have been punished -- including receiving prison sentences of up to 10 years -- for the abuse, torture and sexual assault of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 and early 2004.

Military courts handled those cases.

Then, last Tuesday, a military jury comprised of one general and nine colonels acquitted the only officer to face trial as a result of what occurred at the prison.

Lt. Col. Steven L. Jordan was charged with failing to supervise the soldiers who committed the crimes. In his defense, an attorney contended that Jordan wasn't aware of the abuse.

The jury bought that argument.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Warner helped frame the MCA of 2006...the man codified torture
he's a liar and a war criminal

NO ONE will be convicted if that conviction even hints at "higher ups"

Everyone can best believe that Bush Inc are all over any military trials for officers regarding torture and abuse...

The US government isn't going to hold itself accountable...(in about 20 years government will say it made some grave mistakes and gee, we sure are sorry - but that's all the past now so...)


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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. But I keep hearing he was once married to Elizabeth Taylor
Like that makes him less a war criminal or something?

People are funny.

Don
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I know! It's unreal...yet all too real, tragically
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Actually, he really didn't
Not that the Euphemedia would have said word one about it (you have to actually read the bill versions), but in the end Warner, McCain, and Graham actually "won" the most important battle on that. The bill remained an "Commissions" act and didn't become a "War Criminals Protection" act.

The regime wanted them to "sign on," after the fact, to everything. But the final version included a "no torture" statement and a rather vague "but the executive may be up to something else" statement, which didn't "legalize" anything -- past, present, or future.

This is why we need to impeach on Geneva violations. This Senate, even the GOP ones, would probably convict if put on the spot for history.

But without impeachment you're quite right. There will be no accountability.

---
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I've read it and I disagree
Edited on Sun Sep-02-07 09:30 AM by Solly Mack
"The MCA eliminates the constitutional due process right of habeas corpus for detainees at Guantánamo Bay and elsewhere. It allows our government to continue to hold hundreds of prisoners for more than five years without charges.

It also gives any president the power to declare — on his or her own — who is an enemy combatant, decide who should be held indefinitely without being charged with a crime and define what is — and what is not — torture and abuse"
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/commissions.html

"Makes the president his own judge and jury.
Under the Military Commissions Act, the president has the power to define what is — and what is not — torture and abuse, even though the Geneva Conventions already provide us with a guide."

Allowing Bush to define torture is codifying torture - because Bush redefined torture well before the passage of the MCA of 2006. They were water-boarding LONG before the MCA 2006 and Bush does NOT define water-boarding as torture - he calls it "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques"

"Turns a blind eye to past abuses.
Government officials who authorized or ordered illegal acts of torture and abuse would receive retroactive immunity for their crimes, providing them with a ‘get out of jail free' card."
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/29145res20070322.html

You allow for immunity for torture then you have codified immunity for torture. You have, in effect, codified the torture you are too cowardly to prosecute for...

Does the bill provide immunity for past war crimes?

"Prior to the MCA, the federal War Crimes Act stated, among other things, that all violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions were war crimes. The MCA amends the War Crimes Act so that only “grave breaches” of Common Article 3 (as defined by the MCA) now constitute war crimes. The “grave breaches” language sets a higher threshold for what constitutes a war crime. For example, Common Article 3 prohibits all cruel or inhuman treatment, including humiliating and degrading treatment and outrages upon personal dignity. But under the MCA, only the most severe cruel or inhuman treatment – that which amounts to “severe or serious physical or mental pain or suffering” – constitutes a war crime.

In addition, prior to the MCA amendments, it was a war crime to deprive a detainee who was covered by Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, of the rights of fair trial. Under the MCA amendments, subjecting a detainee to an unfair trial is no longer a war crime under the War Crimes act.

The MCA amendments to the War Crimes Act are retroactive to November 26, 1997 (when the War Crimes Act came into effect). Thus, those who engaged in conduct that would have violated the broader scope of prohibitions prior to the MCA are now immune from prosecution for such conduct, at least as war crimes (there are many other criminal and military laws that prohibit cruel treatment). "

"Does the bill give the President authority to redefine the humane treatment requirements of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions?

Nothing in the MCA would permit the President to change the meaning and requirements of the Geneva Conventions. Those requirements remain intact, all U.S. personnel must comply with them, and the courts remain the final arbiter of their meaning.

(However - )

The MCA does recognize that the President has authority to interpret treaties as he carries them out. But anytime the President issues interpretations of Common Article 3, they must be published in the Federal Register and are subject to congressional and judicial oversight. The new law emphasizes that it is not changing the constitutional role of the courts and Congress. The courts, as always, have the duty to say what the law means.

The MCA claims to strip away a key check on Executive Branch compliance with U.S. and international law: the ability of the courts to hear challenges to detention via the writ of habeas corpus and civil lawsuits. The MCA explicitly seeks to prevent courts from hearing claims of violations of the Geneva Conventions. "

(and torture is what? a violation of the Geneva Conventions..so if you vote to prevent violations of the Geneva Conventions from getting a hearing...you are codifying torture.)

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/ca3/hrf-ca3-102406.html



People in Congress can pretend they say NO to something and then add the "but the President might do something" in an attempt to place all the blame elsewhere but that's just a cowardly cop out.
They're still saying Yes...and I'm not pretending otherwise.


The Pentagon Memo
The Enhanced Language of Guilt
Truly Masterful Bullshit
I Will Not Pretend Otherwise...
How I know Cheney did confess to water boarding


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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Well, you've got a lot going here
...with some of it conflated. But I'll just point out that at least some of the ACLU material is based on the bill as submitted by the regime, not the final. Note the objections to what the law "seeks to" and "would" do.

But the "cowardly cop out" is not pretense when active, ex post facto approval for torture was sought but not provided. It does in fact "place all the blame elsewhere" (where it belongs). And while it would have been far better to have done more, that was not possible. Anything more would have been vetoed. The bottom line is that the regime was denied the fig leaf, and co-conspirators, it wanted.

As for the seperate issue of habeus corpus, that one is larger than all these machinations. Trying to "restore" it is just as much folly as trying to circumvent it. It's just one more horror that will have to make its way to the (formerly) supreme court.

This act did not explicitly "allow" anything more than what was already "legal" and took note that there may be "executive" activity which they were not able to address. And it's real-world effect (perhaps impotent, or even more damaging?) was to put the detainees out of "limbo" and under US military legal jurisdiction.

The regime remains "on the hook" for all their crimes if and when the political will exists to call them to account.

And if that doesn't happen here with reasonable speed, then the world community is free to take up the matter on its own terms.

----
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. Who knew our Senators would lie to us????? nt
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. How will this national sickness end? How long will it take to recover?
How disillusioned can one become without giving up?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I ain't giving up
Shit we got the criminals scurrying like rats leaving a sinking ship now.

We need to keep the pressure on.

Don
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. John Warner is a liar just like Bush is.
He knows he's toast and so do the other GOPers who have any sense at all.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Someone recommend this thread -- it needs one more for greatest.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. k & r
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-02-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. K & R
:kick:
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