Let's Have A Black/Gay Discussion

[ruggerson]

As long as we're getting all of this out on the table -

There is polling which shows that the African American community is more homophobic than the country at large. (Don't ask me for links, google it.)

My question is why?

I would think that one minority group would TRUMPET the rights of another. Kind of like how many Jews were so passionately involved in the civil rights movement of the fifties and sixties.

Coretta Scott King, rest her soul, saw the civil rights struggle as inclusive of the one of gays and lesbians.

So, why all the homophobia?

I'm especially interested in hearing from my brothers and sisters who happen to be black AND gay.

[NC_Nurse]

1. Religion.

Pure and simple.

[ulysses]

2. that's been my experience, yeah.

[TahitiNut]

7. Yep. It's similar for Hispanics.

:shrug:

It's my belief that the 'macho' cultural development is secondary to (a result of) the religious 'norms.'

[Midlodemocrat]

3. Well, from a sociological perspective, it's not all that unusual.

Ever notice that the lowest working class of whites tend to be more racist than the uber wealthy?

Morris Cove in New Haven comes to mind. There were some studies done years and years ago when I was in grad school that concluded it was a tier, stepping stone effect. In essence, once a particular group is no longer at the 'bottom' of the economic or societal ladder, they begin to look down upon the group that is.

Currently, it seems to me that the GLBT population is the last vestige of those of whom it is okay to make fun.

I hope that changes before my own children grow up, in much the same way that blatant racism went away when I was growing up, (lunch counter, buses, etc., not institutional racism, we've still a long way to go there)

Anyway, that is just what I think. YMMV.

[EFerrari]

6. That's what I get from my (now long ago) reading, too.

The hegemony of the oppressed or, put another way, stressed out people have fewer resources to apply to the habit of "tolerance".

It's counter intuitive but seems true to a degree, imho.

[Augdog20]

16. Good point, reminds me of my white neighbors...

most of the white males on my block are loud, aggressive and territorial, and coincidentally, lower class white ethnic males. They don't accept outsiders --especially by non-macho people-- walking on "our side of the street."

Never any such disrespectful treatment from the Latinos on my block.

Yes, in popular culture, the LGBT people are the last group it is ok to make fun of. Hopefully the pitifulness of the Craig-type episodes will open more tolerance and get more dialogue going.

[XemaSab]

4. I am white, straight, and female

but my guess is it's about masculinity and ideas about what it means to be a man after generations of repression.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

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[The Wizard]

9. The twisted logic of a lurking freeper

based on an assumption and information without empirical support.
I guess the freeps are supporting lobbyist turned actor turned politician turned actor turned politician Frederick of Hollywood Thompson.
Pick pockets have victims. Have you been the victim of an immoral homosexual attack? If so, provide details and pictures if possible.

[mudesi]

8. RELIGION, RELIGION, RELIGION (nm)

[Buzz Clik]

10. They have something in common: being black/gay is genetic, it is not a choice.

[Link93]

11. Excellent question. I do not think it is religion as some have stated.

I believe religion is an excuse and not an underlying cause.

[defendandprotect]

12. Patriarchal religions set homophobia in place , true . . .. but

it's also a question of the "powerless" not wanting to add to their powerlessness.

To be homosexual was to lose your personal power -- and to be connected or aligned with homosexuals was also to become less powerful -- families hid homosexuality, even at the cost of attacking their own offspring!

Look at the feminist leadership -- at the beginning they did not want to include the homosexual issue -- they saw it as weakening the movement.

Today -- let's hope the tables are turning -- and that we are rerecognizing the diversity of nature and what it adds to humanity and community.

And that we are facing down the "gods" of hatred -- especially when we meet them in organized religion.



PS: Just want to add this comment, that as homosexuality was made a taboo subject and not permitted to be discussed, so has bisexuality been a non-subject. But it is there and must be acknowledged and discussed. Sexual orientation as Kinsey pointed out is a matter of degrees -- in the middle:
homosexuality on one end, heretosexuality on the other.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Boojatta]

19. Are you saying that race is not merely a social construct?

:wow:

[xchrom]

20. that is a bigoted and homophobic comment.

[ruggerson]

21. And..... ?

why would this create ill will towards gays?

[CatWoman]

14. Not only that, blacks, as a group

represent the largest group infected with the AIDS virus.

I spoke with some people about this at work (CDC), cause it can't all come from needle sharing.

One expert told me that it was due to unprotected bisexual sex; especially in prisons (we have a very large segment of black men serving time in prisons).

Also, I don't think it's all about "religion", tho it does play a huge part.

In 2004 the Bush administration funneled countless millions into the black churches, via their faith based bullshit. Quite a few brothers and sisters fell for that crap.

Then we saw Ms. King's daughter (Bernice) lead a march against gay marriage. That must have had the Rev. and his wife rolling in their graves.

I'm going to get something to eat; I'll check this thread when I get back.

[AspenRose]

17. Specifically the numbers of black women with AIDS has mushroomed

....it's suspected because of the "down low" brothers who keep their homosexuality secret because of the strong taboo in the community. Consequently, they end up infecting their wives and lovers.

(There was actually an episode of Law and Order about this!)

[Augdog20]

15. Religion & Rap plus denial and shame

Neither gay nor black here,
but the answer lies in religion. African Americans take religion quite seriously. Homosexuality is the one issue in which they have extended conservative and religious impulses into public policy. (Compared with abortion and most other culture issues, on which African-Americans are more liberal, tolerant and modern thinking.)
Secondly, it lies in music. Quite a bit of rap is angrily homophobic. In particular, there is a lot of Jamaica modern rap that out-right calls for the murder of gays.
Actually, we should add sports figures to the list of male role models that are outspokenly homophobic.
This is sad in general. And in particular, it forces black gays and bisexuals further into the closet, so that when it comes to defense against HIV, there is little education on the subject. There is the whole denial of being gay; the term is relabled: "men-who-sleep-with-men" or "men-who-love-men." This is probably what has lead to the spike in HIV/AIDS in the black and latino (another homophobic) communities.

[Jed Dilligan]

18. It might have something to do with the fact that

the white man's police state has routinely used arranged homosexual rape as a tool of oppression against downtrodden minorities.

[wellst0nev0ter]

22. I Guess Gayness Reminds Us Of Our Own Emasculation Throughout The Centuries

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying gays, lesbians, women or whatever are automatically emasculated, or am I saying it makes it right, but I think it's all part of the hypermasculinity that's common among blacks in a conscious or unconscious attempt to compensate for emasculation past and present.