While we are on our way to Iran: public sex vs expectations of privacy.

[Warren Stupidity]

As the inane stallophobic turmoil continues on DU this labor day, I find myself laboring under a conundrum.

I've heard that glancing in toilet stalls with sex in mind is a criminal invasion of privacy as there is an expectation of privacy for those within the confines of a public restroom toilet stall. I've also heard, and generally from the same people, that sex in restroom stalls is 'sex in public' and therefore must also be criminalized. Perhaps you can see where I am going here (pun intended).

How can these both be true?

If two people doing some form of the nasty thing in a toilet stall is 'sex in public' how can one have an expectation of privacy in that same stall?

And if your problem is 'two people', if that somehow makes public what was private, if one person, in desperate need of relief, engages in a relief inducing behavior within the privacy of a stall, is that sex in public?

[Toasterlad]

1. You Know What?

That's a really good point.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. I can't seem to get an argument over it though.

It seems to be something of a huge glaring contradiction in the position held by the stallophobes.

[mondo joe]

3. Only because you refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

What is the degree of privacy a reasonable person would expect in a bathroom stall?

A rather limited amount, I'd say. Enough to take a shit or piss without being viewed by another person.

Enough to hide the fact that there are 2 or more people in a stall engaged in some intimate activity together? Not likely. Enough to muffle the sounds of sex? Possibly, but not certainly.

[Toasterlad]

4. What?

Are you maintaining that it's "not likely" you could avoid seeing two people having sex in a stall? I guess if you got on your hands and knees and peered under the divider, it would be hard to miss it. Or if you pulled a Craig and peeked through the crack, you'd get an extemely narrow view of something going on. You could also probably hear some low groaning or moaning.

So you haven't seen anything illicit, and what you've heard are sounds not uncommon in ANY bathroom. Even if you KNOW there are people in the stall next to you having sex, how are they hurting you? What exactly is it about public sex that you can't see and can barely hear that annoys you so much?

[mondo joe]

5. I'm sure there are people who have sex in the stalls and are reasonably good at

hiding their activity. In fact I suspect that's part of the thrill of it for some.

I suspect in other instances people are rather obviously engaged in sexual activity, based on what can be seen through the exposed portion (typically the bottom 24 inches or so), or audibly.

Since there were complaints of sex in the stalls of this restroom, clearly at least some people were obvious about it.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Actually masturbation in stalls is a bit of a legal controversy

it gets snarled up in court over exactly this issue. So it may be clear to you, but it turns out it is hardly clear at all.

So, like I said, if your issue is '2 or more people', fine - now what about one person touching his or her nasty bits in a way you might find inappropriate?

And if you think that is illegal how would you know the perp is beating off without invading his or her reasonable expectation of privacy?

[mondo joe]

8. I have no opinion on that. If the masturbator acts within reasonble expectations

of privacy, how would anyone know?

If they are known to be masturbating, it may be because they have exceeded the limitations of privacy that a bathroom stall can afford.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. The problem is that is a very slippery slope.

As soon as you allow descrete sexual behavior you have basically opened the stall door to just about anyhting.

[mondo joe]

10. I don't see it. If you are truly discreet, no one can know you are dong it.

If you are obviously doing it, you are not discreet.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Don't Have As Much A Problem With The Public Sex As I Do With The Peeking

If two people are doing it in the restroom I can leave...In fact, I have seen it, and did just that...

But if I'm sitting on the can with the door closed and somebody peeked in, my privacy has been invaded...

I no more want a man or a woman peeking at me through a closed stall door when I'm on the can than I want the Bush* administration to peek at my e-mails or listen to my overseas phone calls...