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3 Million People Dead When Cheney Uses his Nukes on Iran???

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:10 PM
Original message
3 Million People Dead When Cheney Uses his Nukes on Iran???
Watch the Video Animation. This is insanity.....

animation
The Nuclear Bunker Buster
Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator

This animation depicts a proposed weapon with a one megaton yield. The funding for this weapon was cut in 2005 defense appropriations. However, the United States still has a B61-11 nuclear 'bunker buster' in its arsenal which has a 400 kiloton yield, which could still cause hundreds of thousands of deaths and spread radiation to other countries. Learn more.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html



Figure 1: Fallout from the use of RNEP against the Esfahan nuclear facility in Iran would spread for thousands of miles across Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. It would kill 3 million people within 2 weeks of the explosion and expose 35 million to cancer causing radiation.


http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/the-robust-nuclear-earth-penetrator-rnep.html

National Laboratory intend to use an existing high-yield nuclear warhead—the 1.2-megaton B83 nuclear bomb—in a longer, stronger and heavier bomb casing. The B83 is the largest nuclear weapon in the U.S. arsenal, and nearly 100 times more powerful than the nuclear bomb used on Hiroshima.<1>

Technical realities:
According to several recent scientific studies, RNEP would not be effective at destroying many underground targets, and its use could result in the death of millions of people.<2>

*
RNEP would produce tremendous radioactive fallout: A nuclear earth penetrator cannot penetrate deep enough to contain the nuclear fallout. Even the strongest casing will crush itself by the time it penetrates 10-30 feet into rock or concrete. For comparison, even a one-kiloton nuclear warhead (less than 1/10th as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb) must be buried at least 200-300 feet to contain its radioactive fallout.<3> The high yield RNEP will produce tremendous fallout that will drift for more than a thousand miles downwind. As, Linton Brooks, the head of the National Nuclear Security Administration told Congress in April, "the laws of physics will far enough to trap all fallout. This is a nuclear weapon that is going to be hugely destructive over a large area" if it goes off underground.
*
RNEP could kill millions of people: A simulation of RNEP used against the Esfahan nuclear facility in Iran, using the software developed for the Pentagon, showed that 3 million people would be killed by radiation within 2 weeks of the explosion, and 35 million people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India would be exposed to increased levels of cancer-causing radiation (see Figure 1).<4>





Nuclear Bunker Busters Are Dangerous, Ineffective, and Unneeded (10/26/05)

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?formAction=297&contentId=401

This is a major victory for a saner nuclear policy. There was widespread confusion in the public and press about nuclear bunker busters (confusion that the Administration did little to correct). A remarkable number of reports conflated nuclear bunker busters with so-called “mini-nukes.” Putting aside for the moment that a “mini” nuclear weapon is defined as one with an explosive yield of five thousand tons of TNT, or one third the size of the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, the bunker busters were genuinely gigantic bombs. The largest being considered had a yield of 1.2 million tons of TNT. The other misconception was that the bombs would burrow deep inside the Earth before detonating, substantially reducing effects on the surface. In fact, the bombs would penetrate at most only a few meters into rock, causing no reduction in blast, fire, or fallout damage on the surface. The largest RNEP would have blown out a crater almost a thousand feet across and thrown a cloud of radioactive fallout tens of thousands of feet into the air where it would be blown hundreds of miles downwind.

Even with this enormous power, nuclear weapons are not particularly effective at destroying deep underground tunnels. The National Academy of Sciences reported that even megaton bombs could not reliably destroy tunnels more than 300 meters deep. Nations around the world started putting critical facilities underground in the first place in response to precision-guided weapons that made virtually all fixed surface targets vulnerable. The response to a nuclear bunker buster is obvious: just dig deeper. Any nation that can dig under a hundred meters of hard rock can dig under a kilometer of hard rock.

U.S. nuclear weapons simply have no remaining role on the battlefield of the future. Abandoning the RNEP is a big step toward a more rational, safer, nuclear policy.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. I guess Rove was right
He really didn't want dick to be vp at least that's what I'm hearing now
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. So now we are going to nuke Iran?
:eyes:
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Don't have the ground forces to invade.
Brass in Army and Marine know that fact. Fundie end-timers in charge of the Air Force, on the other hand, can start one helluva war from 45,000 and higher. No skin of their shins, they can drop the bombs, get us all committed in a fight that shouldn't happen, and be back in time for supper.

There's lots of AF brass just itching to teach Iran just whose god can piss the highest. The Air Force Academy has been run by bigoted religious zealots for many years now. It should scare the crap out of us all that they are in places where they can do so much damage to the US and the world.

cheney will have to give the ghouls something, and he can give them the OK to send nukes.
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We are not going to nuke Iran.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. So comforted you think so
Want to buy my duct tape?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. amazing isn't it?
given that congress has so blithely given bush the power to do anything the fuck he wants, why someone would think they would NOT use nukes is, well, absurd.
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. If Bush is this all so powerful guy who will nuke people left and right
why hasn't he used them yet? Hes had seven years.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. listen to the war gamers
<snip>

n the meantime, administration officials are studying the lessons of the recent war game, which was set up to devise a way of weathering an economic storm created by war with Iran. Computer modelling found that if Iran closed the Straits of Hormuz, it would nearly double the world price of oil, knock $161 billion off American GDP in a single quarter, cost one million jobs and slash disposable income by $260 billion a quarter.

The war gamers advocated deploying American oil reserves - good for 60 days - using military force to break the blockade (two US aircraft carrier groups and half of America's 277 warships are already stationed close to Iran), opening up oil development in Alaska, and ending import tariffs on ethanol fuel. If the government also subsidised fuel for poorer Americans, the war-gamers concluded, it would mitigate the financial consequences of a conflict.

The Heritage report concludes: "The results were impressive. The policy recommendations eliminated virtually all of the negative outcomes from the blockade."

James Carafano, a former lecturer at West Point, the American military academy, who led the war game, said: "It's not about making the case for war. I have yet to meet a government official who says: 'I've just come from a fierce debate about whether to bomb Iran'."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/02/wiran102.xml

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. bush isn't powerful. He isn't in charge and most know it
Nuking Iraq would have been a fast war and a fast war is not what cheney wanted. Go look at cheney from back when he said it would be a quagmire. In the years since then, he and his corporate sponsors laid out the plan to make a quagmire pay off BIG TIME. They didn't flatten Iraq because it wasn't profitable to flatten Iraq. A protracted ground war lends cover for the stealing of billions and the bilking of billions more from the US Treasury.

Iran has some resources also, but is 3 time larger than Iraq and NOT virtually defenseless like Iraq was. They are NOT playing along with the rest of the oil producers and THAT is why they are branded as a rogue state.

We don't have the resources for a ground war with Iran but several powers want us to do their bidding there. And a couple really BIG powers don't want us messing there at all. Showing them that cheney/bush is insane enough to use nukes is the only way to do what the Saudis and Israel want done and make sure bears and dragons understand just how rogue a state the US is now so they might just stand down.

What cares do cheney/bush and company have? They have no national allegiances. They have no loyalties save for the mean$ to their end$ of amassing as much money and resources for their patrons as possible. They don't care about PEOPLE and most likely think the world would be nicer for them if there were less of us.

Seven years....spent stealing the taxpayers and then borrowing so they could steal from the taxpayers' children and grandchildren. That jig is just about up and they will face prosecution for their crimes, UNLESS they managed to stay in power. No way to do that save create a situation which is so horrible we won't be able to deal with ANYTHING else and they have cover for the martial law they have so meticulously planned for.

Was that a no to my duct tape?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I hope the poster is correct, but there has been a lot of effort to get AF Academy people to conform
to a particular religious zealotry and mindset. Lots of reports of people who object to the fundy shit having all sorts of trouble there. One chaplain who was charged with investigating lots of complaints actually resigned her commission so she could report TRUTHFULLY about all the incidents of harassment and pressure she found. They sent A Christian CHAPLAIN to investigate complaints of religious persecution by fundamental, evangelical xian officers and she had to QUIT to voice her concerns over what she discovered.

Yeah, the Air Force scares me.

Another thing that scares me is the fact that the cheney/bush junta does what Arabia wants. And Arabia wants Iran taken down.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. how about you give me $100 dollars if they don't nuke iran and I'll give you $1000 if they do.
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StarryNite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. For crying out loud!
Duct tape is no good without the plastic sheeting!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Sorry, gonna have to get it somewhere eles. I need dropcloths
for some painting I want to get done before the rapture ;)
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AnotherGreenWorld Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. lmao @ There's lots of AF brass just itching to teach Iran just whose god can piss the highest.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Well you can be sure that's Cheney's opening position - use penetrating nukes
then he'll pretend to settle for more limited strikes, which will naturally escalate to the all-out war he wanted in the first place.

If you haven't read it, here's some "nuke chatter" disclosed by Sy Hersh last year in The New Yorker magazine:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/04/17/060417fa_fact?currentPage=1
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Probably not
Regular bombs are quite powerful enough for what Bush has in mind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Even if there is military action...
I'm pretty sure it won't involve nukes.

After all, nukes haven't been used in the Iraq war, which is not to say that it's not a crime and humanitarian disaster. So why expect nukes here?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Iran: Three times the size with an opporational government = tough target
Iraq has just been cover for robbery of the US Treasury and Iraqi oil resources. Surgical nuclear strikes in Iraq would not have done what cheney's masters wanted. Shock and Awe was NOT what the plan was, just the promotional jingle.

Takes time to bankrupt a nation as big as the US and so long as China keeps lending, there is still war profiteering to be done.

And there are some very embarrassing paper trails in Iran re businesses (and other US entities) that have traded with Iran despite regulations. As we get down to the wire of trying to make the war criminals pay for what they have wrought, they need to destroy some evidence.

A big ol 'Real War' is one hell of a diversion too. Marital law would be a given here in the US. That would also keep a lot of the guilty parties from their come-uppance.
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. I have a theory...
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. As I stated on the other thread...
I think the reasons are much more political and less apocalyptic.

The war has been very unpopular in Britain from the beginning, and there has been a lot of pressure to get out of Basra. This was unlikely to happen as long as Blair was PM, but once he was replaced by Brown, it was fairly predictable.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Snap out of it.
This is just hysteria. Yes, the US has nukes, but the likelihood of bushco using them is not high. But even if you think it is, this kind of hysterical chicken little stuff, accomplishes nothing. It's just ratcheting the pitch up.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. you are, of course, correct
and, of course, it won't make a difference to the tinfoilers
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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. This website is swarming with tinfoinlers.
And they screech at anybody who doesn't agree with their bullshit.
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Anyone remember the hysteria of Cuba, the Soviet Union and JFK?
eom
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. hysteria helps nothing. eom
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. not exactly true, cali...
it helps those whose job it is to provoke hysteria and undermine political sites and movements.

Other than that, it's useless...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That's true.
Let me put it this way: Hysteria accomplishes nothing positive.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Unlesss you're posing as a lib on a site like this...
I''m not saying anything about anyone specifically, but methinks that more than a couple posters are instigating fights in a subtle fashion. Happened to me a couple times...one poster's dogging me. I'm watching carefully...
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