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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:40 PM
Original message
Are We ‘Good Germans'?

Are We ‘Good Germans'?

By Ed Ciaccio

09/01/07 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18291.htm



A shirt I recently bought from Old American Century (www.oldamericancentury.org ) has the figure of Uncle Sam, steely-eyed, fists on hips, and under it, the following text:

“If you had told me a few years ago that we would have secret prisons through out the former Soviet republics, tortured our enemies, and used chemical weapons on civilians, I’d have thought you were crazy. But I also didn’t think you’d let Bush steal another election.”


Regardless of whether you choose to believe that both the 2000 and 2004 Presidential Elections were stolen (and there is ample evidence; see, for example http://www.gregpalast.com/one-million-black-votes-didnt-count-in-the-2000-presidential-election-rnits-not-too-hard-to-get-your-vote-lost-if-some-politicians-want-it-to-be-lost/ and http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen ), there are many other disturbing facts about our nation which no longer need to rest on faith to be “believed” because they are now part of the historical record.



Among them are the following:

*** Bush and his administration had many warnings before the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks (http://www.buzzflash.com/perspectives/911bush.html )


*** War on Iraq for “regime change” was planned long before the 9/11 attacks (http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1203-21.htm , http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html , and http://pnac.info/index.php/2003/4-years-before-911-plan-was-set/ )


*** Intelligence about Iraq was “fixed” starting in 2002 to support Bush and Blair’s decision to attack Iraq (http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/ and http://globalresearch.ca/articles/SMI505A.html )


*** The U.S./U.K. invasion and occupation of Iraq is illegal and constitutes the supreme war crime, that of an unprovoked, preventive war of aggression similar to Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland in 1939 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm , http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/13670 , and http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman09172003.html )


*** Over one million Iraqis died, including over 500,000 children, as a result of the sanctions imposed by George H.W. Bush after the 1991 Gulf War and then maintained by Bill Clinton and George W. Bush until the U.S./U.K. invasion in March, 2003 (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/2002/paper.htm#summary , http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/418625.stm , http://www.infowars.net/articles/march2007/270307Iraq_toll.htm , and http://www.thenation.com/doc/20011203/cortright )
as all three administrations tried to provoke “regime change” in Iraq

*** Detainees held in U.S. prisons in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in Afghanistan, and in Iraq have been tortured (http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html and http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=us_torture_abuse )


*** CIA “Rendition” (kidnapping) of terrorist suspects to nations known to torture started in the Clinton administration, continued and increased under Bush, and was known by “top officials” (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678155.shtml and http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510512006 )


*** U.S. forces have committed war crimes by using weapons such as napalm (Mark 77 firebombs), depleted uranium, white phosphorous, and cluster bombs in Iraq (http://www.brusselstribunal.org/WMD.htm , http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/was-there-napalm-in-fallujah/ , http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11020.htm , and http://www.consumersforpeace.org/pdf/war_crimes_iraq_101006.pdf )


*** Between 600,000 and one million Iraqis have died since the March, 2003 illegal U.S./U.K. invasion and occupation* (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/middleeast/11casualties.html?ex=1318219200&en=516b1d070ff83c15&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss , http://pressesc.com/news/99409082007/one-million-iraqis-killed-us-invasion )


*** In spite of prior warnings, Bush failed to have the New Orleans levees repaired or see New Orleans was properly prepared for Hurricane Katrina (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,372455,00.html and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11627394/ )


*** Bush admitted he broke the FISA law, an impeachable offense (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1216-01.htm , http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20051230.html , and http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/19/1515212 )


*If you consider the one million Iraqis who died as a result of the 1991-2003 sanctions and the one million who have died since the 2003 invasion, the word genocide comes to mind. If you consider the four million Iraqi refugees resulting from our invasion and occupation, and the resulting sectarian violence causing the creation of unprecedented sectarian enclaves in Iraq, the term ethnic cleansing comes to mind.



As Americans, supposedly believing in the rule of law, supposedly believing in fairness and compassion, what do we do now that we know these facts?

Do we deny them because they clash with our view of America as the “greatest country in the world”?

Do we shrug and say, “Well, every country has its dark side”?

Do we throw up our hands and complain that we can’t do much because Cheney and Bush have so much power and, besides, they’ll be out of office soon?

Or do we simply turn the page and see what else is on TV?


The “Good Germans” who did nothing had similar reactions while Hitler destroyed Europe and murdered 6 million Jews, and 5 million Poles, Russians, Communists, homosexuals and other “non-Aryans” in his death camps. They denied, or accepted and approved, or said they didn’t know, or (justifiably for many) feared punishment or death in Hitler’s dictatorship.

But we don’t live in a dictatorship.

And we DO know what has been done in our name.

So who are we? What have we become?

Right now there are three massive U.S. aircraft carrier task forces in the Persian Gulf, and B-1 and B-2 bombers and many fighters on airfields in countries surrounding Iran. They are there waiting for Bush, with Cheney’s urging, to give the signal to repeat “shock and awe’, this time on the Iranian people.

Right now another propaganda campaign, similar to that which preceded our 2003 Iraq invasion, is beginning, but this time charging Iran with unproven “evils” against our troops in Iraq. Again it is accepted without challenge by our compliant, corporate mainstream media with its many links to the so-called “defense” industry. Meanwhile, that same media distracts us with “coverage” of Larry Craig’s men’s room saga, or the death of Princess Di ten years later, or John Edwards’ haircuts, or Britney, or Lindsay, or Paris, or…

And right now, Iranian forces are accused, with little, if any, solid evidence, of helping kill U.S. soldiers in Iraq. Meanwhile, ignored by our media, U.S. special forces and CIA operatives are in Iran selecting targets for our planes, drones, and cruise missiles and supporting anti-Iranian government groups there. In effect, we have been waging war on Iran from inside Iran for almost two years already (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4180087.stm and http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0620-31.htm ).

And now Bush wants our always-accommodating Congress, Democrats and Republicans, to declare a part of Iran’s military as “terrorists.” This will enable him to attack Iran without Congressional authorization.

These are also facts.

So what will you do about this?

Will you be a “Good German”?

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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wish they'd come up with another term.
I spend much of the year in Germany, and am married to a wonderful
German woman, who spends her life doing social work and votes Green.

Her father was drafted (involuntarily) off of his farm at age 17, and was returned
at age 18 after losing a leg and his youth at Stalingrad in the winter
of 1942. His greatest fear was that his grandchildren would be born male,
and therefore subject to military service (he got his wish--three girls).
After he was sent back to his farm to wait out the end of the war as an
invalid, hating anything having to do with guns or shouting, he pretty much
retreated into himself until the end of the war--some say until well after that.

Was he a good German or a bad German? All he ever WANTED to be was a farmer.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. personally, i think the parallel holds...

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree
100%!

Thank you for saying what so many will not.
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Du kannst wahrscheinlich sehr gut Deutsch, deswegen schreibe ich dass ich einverstanden bin.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It is as you surmised
Und es ist immer willkommen, eine Stimme der Vernunft zu hören, Danke!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Das Bild die Amis über Deutschland haben
ist leider nur Verdrehung.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Nicht alle!
(Bin ja schliesslich selber einer!)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Ich auch!
;-) :hi:
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Siehe mal an! LOL!!
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hell no! but..
.. it's a different kind of fascism at work here.

A person can be radical, activist, outspoken, etc.
and nothing changes.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know but this is the last thing I remember from the old world
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/2001/us_open/news/2001/09/05/usopen_wednesday_ap/

the match between Agassi and Sampras in the quarterfinal at the US Open in New York, September 5, 2001.
Two of the best in the world, both Americans, and Sampras would go on to win. Pure enjoyment.

How could we have known that New York and the rest of the world was about to collapse?

Bush told us it was a different world but he wanted us to believe that so he could have unlimited power. And we have allowed him, for the most part, to get away with it. Checks and balances be damned.

I don't want to be a good German.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes and the people that I expect to acknowledge this abuse are
taking a month long vacation. I think the last time a was on a month long vacation was in grade school. If I post the stuff that is happening in my community few some defend the actions even going so far as to assume wrong doing-very good german mind frame.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Welcome To DU! You'll Be Right At Home Here
Most of us are quite aware of all of the facts you list.

Hope you've found the topic forums and groups by now.

But We DO live in a dictatorship

As Chris Floyd points out in the excellent piece you posted earlier.

and, as he said, If 10 million people protesting worldwide didn't stop the Iraq war,

what do you really think we can do to stop the Iran bombing?

I fear it's gonna take the world banding together to stop our leadership's murderous ways

just as they did to stop Hitler in the last century and attacking Iran may just be what causes that to happen.

I was taught to Duck and Cover in elementary school, and it's like riding a bike, you never forget how.

PS K&R means:

Kicked: to move the thread back up to the top of the list

and

Recommended: to get the thread listed on the Greatest Thread Page

See Ya around!
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. hey thanks Wiley~! :)


and nope, i'm completely clueless about the topic forums and groups - do you guys have any suggestions where i could start start?...



in my turn, i'd like to invite you guys to check out 'my' forum:

http://uspolitics.tribe.net/

:)
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Just Hit the "Discuss" link at the top of any page
topic forums and groups links are there

they take you to more lists of links

just look around
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. no comparison between germany and the usa
no i won`t be a good "german"...i`ll be a good american and oppose any needless war
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "It won't come with jackboots and book burnings..."

"It won't come with jackboots and book burnings, with mass rallies and fevered harangues. It won't come with "black helicopters" or tanks on the street. It won't come like a storm – but like a break in the weather, that sudden change of season you might feel when the wind shifts on an October evening: everything is the same, but everything has changed. Something has gone, departed from the world, and a new reality has taken its place.

As in Rome, all the old forms will still be there; legislatures, elections, campaigns – plenty of bread and circuses for the folks. But the "consent of the governed" will no longer apply; actual control of the state will have passed to a small group of nobles who rule largely for the benefit of their wealthy peers and corporate patrons.

To be sure, there will be factional conflicts among this elite, and a degree of free debate will be permitted, within limits; but no one outside the privileged circle will be allowed to govern or influence state policy. Dissidents will be marginalized – usually by "the people" themselves. Deprived of historical knowledge by an impoverished educational system designed to produce complacent consumers, not thoughtful citizens, and left ignorant of current events by a media devoted solely to profit, many will internalize the force-fed values of the ruling elite, and act accordingly. There will be little need for overt methods of control.

The rulers will often act in secret; for reasons of "national security," the people will not be permitted to know what goes on in their name. Actions once unthinkable will be accepted as routine: government by executive fiat, the murder of "enemies" selected by the leader, undeclared war, torture, mass detentions without charge, the looting of the national treasury, the creation of huge new "security structures" targeted at the populace. In time, all this will come to seem "normal," as the chill of autumn feels normal when summer is gone.

It will all seem normal..."

- Chris Floyd http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=433&Itemid=5

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Awful as that is and true as it is that that scenario
is playing out, it's not exactly the same as watching your neighbors dragged from their homes and sent to camps. And that's a large part of the meaning behind the "good german" image.
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The Vinyl Ripper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The Unites States
Has the highest incarceration rate in the world..

What was that about "camps" again?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. If you can't see the difference
you don't know enough history. And I've worked in the prison system. It's not the same thing.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for the concern, but I just checked and
no, I'm not a "good german".
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Of course we are good Germans. First "Czechoslovakia".
Now "Poland".


We have no choice.
We pay the taxes.
They drop the bombs.


Shock and awe.
Shock and awe.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. I appreciate the links I do, but I have to mention: we're not even 'Good Americans'...
If we were, this would never have occured imo
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. Many are, but many of us aren't. n/t
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Beerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why yes, yes we are!
There's been no change from all of the American corporations exploiting Europe and the rest of the world. America exploits idiots overseas not so much for money, but for something to laugh at!
It's all about money, and everything is America's fault.
Americans are the only people that seek to strip from everyone they come in contact with from their lives.
Your post contains many interesting links, thanks for posting!
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