DU is not in the dumper!

[Pacifist Patriot]

Perhaps I am incredibly obtuse. I will grant this as a possibility. I am not known for my powers of observation. I do not know if that is a strength or a weakness, but honestly I do not see anything particularly different now than in the past. Seen it, been there, done that.

Something enticing happened, an inordinate amount of posts were devoted to it, insensitive clods made dumbass comments and the backlash cometh. To quote my mother-in-law, "t'was ever thus."

I am in no way defending anyone. Homophobes have a lot of education to absorb and self-exploration to achieve. Lots of DU-denizens need to step back for a moment and take a look at how they are interpreting conversations. I have seen umpteen exchanges that have left me shaking my head and wondering if both of the conversants are native in a mutual language. Both making decent points but neither one grasping the other's. Maddening I tell you!

DU has not gone down hill. There is still a remarkable amount of late breaking news, meaningful discource, positive activism and progressive comraderie.

At least there will be until someone else gets a haircut, wears a trendy lowcut blouse, kicks the bucket, meets a pair of handcuffs or files for divorce.

Eyes on the ball.

Values that affirm the worth and dignity of every person, promote the democratic process and elevate the rights of the individual over the pursuit of the almighty profit margin.

[JeffR]

1. Couldn't be said better!

You need to rethink your self-evaluation about powers of observation. I think you've nailed it.

[bridgit]

2. agreed...

[Booster]

3. Ya get an AMEN over here. I still get my news here, I still get good

ideas here - I do try to pass the posts on the sex gossip of the day, but ever so often I even read some of those threads and shake my head. But all in all it's still the best place on the web and I like it here - so I'm staying no matter what. "Eyes on the ball", indeed.

[barbtries]

4. i know i'm nowhere near getting off this board

and this is still where i get 95% of my news. this is still where my thoughts and feelings are validated. long live DU

when it comes to the type of conversation that does go on, with name calling and posts where the correspondents seem to be carrying on two one-sided arguments, i just click back up on the "greatest" icon and move on to the next post.

[NNN0LHI]

5. You are right n/t

[rosesaylavee]

6. Agreed except

I notice less funny silly posts these days... Not a lot of visual puns, silly Agent Mikey threads, etc. The Most Excellent Duzy Awards help flesh out the threads I miss ... but still wish the 'lighter' side of our horror could be addressed more often. Makes it easier to cope day-to-day.

[Pacifist Patriot]

8. I'd do what I can, but I've had my hands full recently.

Trust me. Life is still as absurd today as it was last week. Plenty to chuckle at.

Not political, but here is something I posted in the lounge last night. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6892354&mesg_id=6892354

I think it says something about human nature in our society these days.

[rosesaylavee]

10. Perhaps you can lure some of the

lounge lizards out into GD or GD-P at appropriate times just to lighten things up... Or perhaps I need to visit the Lounge more often.

Thanks for the funny! :hug:

[Shine]

7. Yup, the glass is half full.

:D :thumbsup:

[Raster]

9. I have been a subscriber and poster to DU for over four years, and a lurker before then.

DU like everything else is changing as it grows and evolves. There never really were the "good ol' days." Just a smaller DU where perhaps there may have been more of a sense of common purpose. But then there was also a DU that certain individuals treated like their private playground. And God forbid someone voice an opinion that one of the "old timers" didn't agree with. We should be thrilled to death with the new blood, new opinions, new thoughts. It's about damned time. For there to be growth, there must be change. Welcome it, embrace it.

[TheDoorbellRang]

13. Well put!

.

[Raster]

48. Thank you! And a hearty welcome to DU!

:hi:

[TheDoorbellRang]

50. Glad to be part of the evolution!

:7

[bonito]

11. I concur

The inner core of humanity shines above our faults.:thumbsup:

[troubleinwinter]

12. No, but

one gets sick of disruptors causing stinks, stirring shit and hard feelings in serious, important threads, making actual discourse difficult and eventually getting threads locked.

'The many' end up punished by the intentional disruptive bad behavior of a few, shutting off serious discussions.

[Tansy_Gold]

14. Even disruptors are nothing new

There are times when I, too, wish there were more serious discussions, and I miss the feeling that I could log onto DU at any time and find a wealth of long, insightful posts.

But --

I still come here for news and, more important, analysis of the news. On almost every news thread there's invariably someone posting for whom this issue is a special interest, and they provide background and information that simply isn't available elsewhere. Especially when the subject of the news item is a politician: we have DUers from virtually every congressional district, so if it's a state politician, SOMEONE has the dirt.

In my own personal opinion, I think there was a sense almost akin to panic among the liberal/progressive community for a long time after the installation of the booooosh regime. Anger, yes, but anger mixed with a kind of disbelief that something so preposterous as the Florida riot and the SCOTUS decision could have foisted this incompetent ape on our nation. That panic seemed to intensify after 9/11/01 -- yes, there were even the staunchest of DUers back then who said we had to support "the president" in those hours and then days of "real" panic.

But even panic can't be sustained indefinitely, and I've seen what I think is a kind of bitter, simmering acceptance of the horrors that is only mitigated by a continuing hope that there will eventually be an end to the booooosh/cheeeeeney tyranny and a return to something approaching normalcy, at least for us if not the rest of the world.

In a saner climate, we might not have this bitter divisiveness, but our political climate is far from sane. I know which of the candidates I personally favor, but I almost never post on that topic, because I know I'm not likely to change anyone's mind. But I read the threads to get new insights on all the candidates. It's not much different from 2004, with the exception that this time we have to worry not only about who our party is going to run but who that candidate is going to run against.

Most of us have lives beyond the confines of DU. For some of us, DU may have become too overwhelming and we had to step away for a while, or maybe permanently. For others, we enjoyed the diversion but now we're resuming a stronger focus on the rest of the world.

But one thing hasn't changed at all about DU -- the disruptors. They've always been here, and they always will be. The alert button is your friend ---- unless of course you really ENJOY tormenting those already tormented souls. . . . .


Tansy Gold, who has hit the alert button many times in her long tenure at DU and has almost always enjoyed doing it

[troubleinwinter]

21. It isn't the disruptors per se,

it is the relentless onslaught on certain threads that are calculated to overwhelm mods and get threads locked in order to prevent valuable discussion.

In these cases, sometimes hitting 'alert' only makes it worse, as the mods more quickly regard what is otherwise a reasonable discussion as a 'having become a flame war'.

Sometimes DUers carry on in spite of the disruptors, but often the disruptors get their wish in getting a discussion locked as a reward for their attrocious behavior.

[Tansy_Gold]

45. Maybe I've just learned to avoid those threads that seem to

invite flame wars.

And maybe that's what a lot of the now-vanished "old timers" have done.

But isn't it possible that part of what's brought an increase in disruption is a function of DU's position as one of the most popular of the dem/left/progressive message boards? And the subjects that tend to invite flame wars have ALWAYS invited flame wars, but now there are not just five or six or ten or twelve DU forums but dozens.

I give the moderators a lot of credit -- they deal with what must be an almost overwhelming at times burden of complaints and countercomplaints and so on. So I try to make their job a little easier -- maybe I don't succeed, but this is honestly my intent -- by alerting AS SOON AS I READ a questionable post. Rather than let a discussion go down the flamewar path, I alert right away. The posts and posters I alert on don't always get deleted, but I think we, as dedicated DUers, have to pitch in as best *we* can to avoid getting sucked into the disruptors' vortex.

Tansy Gold, who got sucked in many times before she wised up, sort of.

[troubleinwinter]

47. A very fine post, and well taken.

[annabanana]

15. (my impression as well)

There are stretches where I seem to have dozens of threads (+/or topics) on ignore. Then, like the tide, the lunacy subsides...

[WillyT]

16. LOL !!! - I Didn't Know Loonies Were Tidal !!!

But now that ya mention it, it seems very true.

I wonder how hard it would be to make a DU Loony Tide Chart?

Do we go by the moon, or by Republican scandals?

:shrug::rofl::shrug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

17. Well shit, that's an imponderable.

[TahitiNut]

23. They depend on the exchange rate.

:dunce:

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. Bah! I will be in London for 3 weeks in October.

Thanks to the Republicans and the whopper of a national debt (killed the dollar and murdered our children (humans in general, not just military personnel) in Iraq) I'm going to pay more than double for anything I would purchase in the U.S.

[TahitiNut]

25. You haven't noticed the deluge of international tourists visiting the U.S.??

Neither have I. Funny 'bout that. :eyes: Even though the U.S. is at bargain basement prices for European and Asian tourists, they're passing. (Can't blame 'em.)

The number of visitors to the U.S. from overseas has not yet recovered to levels last seen in 2000. Not once.

http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/outreachpages/inbound.total_intl_travel_volume_1996-2006.html

[Lifelong Protester]

18. I think you have to ignore a lot, folks...

and know when to get out of a thread that is just making you crazy.

I still come here for a lot of news also, so I do not see this place as 'in the dumper' but having the normal give and take, and crappy stuff, and good stuff, just like REAL life.

[Beausoir]

19. I agree. Like any internet message board, there are loonies and crazy times.

But this is still the first place I come for news and discussion.

There are so many good people here. Lots of dramatics as well....but some very good and fine people.

[Spazito]

20. I totally agree!

One only has to remember the "Popefest" or the "Foleyfest" to know DU ebbs and flows on different news stories. Not to mention the 2004 Primaries, lol.

DU is still the BEST place on the net for news, commentary, wit and, yes, the occasional 'infestation' which doesn't last very long as the mods are quite efficient, imo.

[HughMoran]

22. I much prefer a constructive criticism of DU

...and you have just provided this. DU is not in the dumper, we are constantly learning and we will make mistakes as a group. Big deal, next week the controversies this past week will be mostly forgotten.

[frogcycle]

26. I agree

I just posted on another thread that I probably should have added a question mark to my thread title. And in fact, it was just the first "DU" word I came up with for a thread title. At least it stimulated conversation - both in that thread and in spinoffs like this. Unlike my less interestingly titled posts which just disappear in nanoseconds! I wrote it in a fit of pique at a candidate-bashing thread that was just spinning out of control, with the OP calling anyone who responded various flavors of idiot. As someone suggested, if we just stop feeding those threads they'll go away. And if someone else feeds them, just hide them.

But I just loved that the very first response was to call me Hitler! Laughed my butt off.

[hfojvt]

38. nice post, Hitler

"Nice post, Hitler" is an old lounge joke from a few years ago. Maybe even older.

It wasn't like he was being a series moran.

[frogcycle]

40. ah, then I'm glad I laughed rather than go postal! n/t

[tom_paine]

27. I agree with you, Pacifist Patriot

[lonestarnot]

28. Oh that's good, because I didn't really think it was in the dumper anyway.

[SmokingJacket]

29. I love DU, but I do think it's at low ebb lately.

Lots of petty sniping, old regulars gone, etc. It's still got the news, and interesting commentary, but less. It reflects the confused mood of the country lately.

Soon something will happen to recharge the place, as it always does.

Though... it might be that the usual PRIMARY MADNESS is starting already, in which case... :hide:

[zehnkatzen]

30. Low ebb? My word, no!

Even at the amateur level on DU, I find comraderie and information that I wouldn't find otherwise.

I have to do some self-filtering, but then I had to do that with the mainstream media too! That's why God gave me a brain.

Also, as a Mike Malloy fan, it gives me a chance to connect with people that I have a common passion with.

Low ebb? I should say not! More exciting than ever!

[Mnemosyne]

31. Same as it ever was...Thanks PP! n/t

[redqueen]

32. Well put... t'was ever thus.

:thumbsup:

[mdmc]

33. best place to support dem policies on the internets

a little too big for discussion of ideas or ideals, but good for "me too" kicks.

I once had a thread locked because it discussed utilizing third parties to help Dems get more votes (In NYS a third party can endorse a D or R - voters can vote on third party lines for democrats IF dems are able to secure the ballot line). It got locked because it mentioned third parties :eyes:

In NYS both Chuck Schumer and (NYS AG candidate) Eliot Spitzer owe their election victories to votes cast on a third party line for them.

Why would a thread get locked if it is about helping Dems win elections?
:shrug:

The thread is on my journal if you want to look at it. It really shouldn't have been locked.

[MGKrebs]

34. I think it has changed.

It just seems that there is a higher proportion of conflict and confrontation, and perhaps this is because there is a higher proportion of members posting BS that needs to be challenged.

My theory is that many folks who were here pretty early felt a sense of ownership or camaraderie. A sense of responsibility in how the forum developed. I suspect that there is less of that now. Many, many members seem to post whatever first reaction flows through their fingertips with little regard for any consequences it might have. But words do matter. Let me suggest this: If our words to each other of condolence, or support, or caring have an effect, then most certainly our words of deception, thoughtlessness, and temper can too. People read these words and they feel things because of it.

Having said all that, I think DU is going through an adolescence, and like many adolescents has to challenge the status quo and grow into a new personality, perhaps even one a little different than intended. It is possible that some would need to try to destroy what has been built by others before they can feel ownership in something new. If the owners permit, the "younger generation" will get the chance to build it's own version of what DU is. What would you have it be?

[pingzing58]

36. What I'm looking for here are the facts and background (investigative) information on the decisions

our governmental leaders are making on our behalf. Forums such as this one, to which I gladly contribute for the opportunity to participate, give us the chance to debate (prepared or unprepared, intellectual or vicsceral, fact or opinion) the issues that affect our lives. My thoughts and positions on issues are clarified as I read the many posts and respond to some of them. For all of those who have felt locked out of the debate they should be invited to this forum. My dissapointment with the Daily Kos and Huffington post is that they have always been or have degenerated into an elitism that is no longer open to the wide and varied views of the Democratic right. They have been assimilated into the ever more and becoming meaningless and ineffectual center in my opinion. But here, someone might just listen.

[TahitiNut]

35. Then what is it?

[MADem]

37. I agree. Discussion boards are for discussions, and if people let a

moronic view define THEM, well, it says as much about their willingness to step up and fight back as it does about the idiots making the foolish comments in the first place.

Plus, it's primary season--and all sorts of types come out during that time, including people who aren't really friendly to the cause. Ya gotta challenge when needed, and not sweat the small stuff.

[BlueIris]

39. I disagree with you, but this is a great post and I bookmarked it.

I may have to steal some of it, actually.

And although I have seen a marked downturn in quality on this site the last few months, (I blame the primary wars and the bad behavior they are inspiring in many "regulars") I'll still post here.

[Hekate]

41. Nicely done, PP! It's been awhile since I've seen you here -- nice to have you chime in just now.

:hi:

Hekate

[SlingBlade]

42. Democratic Underground going down hill

Not a chance, No other progressive site holds a dimly lit candle to D.U.
This is hands down the best site on the internet for open minded individuals
to discuss the issues of our time.
That doesn't mean we all agree, It means the platform for discussion exist here for all to partake
in with an easy to read and understand format.
That is something as a whole you will find no place else.

I love Democratic Underground I like many other progressive site's.

[roxnev]

43. I like the no bad mouthing democrats

I used to hang out at KOs, but the Republicans took over, If a Democrat in congress vote for something that can be a wedge isue the jump all over them, but they never say a word about ever Republican that voted for the same thing.

[socretes73]

44. You Are 100% Correct

NEVER - I say NEVER give up the fight!

[natrat]

46. inteligent open minded people , no censorship--what's to complain about

[baby_mouse]

49. Rar!

Proper!

:yourock: