So a U.S. military helicopter was dispatched to rescue...

[theHandpuppet]

... 20 American tourists from an island off the Nicaraguan coast (vacationing scuba divers, according to news reports) with Felix on the way but our government left thousands stranded in NOLA to rot amidst the destruction and corpses. Where were the helicopters then?

Um... perhaps someone can explain this to me in a way that makes some rational sense but right now I am OUTRAGED.

[peacetalksforall]

1. Democracy Now - last Thrursday film of rotting body on ground for two weeks.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Small-scale rescue, very doable. Still, can't help but get the

feeling that there's a little more value placed on white moneyed vacationers.

edit to add--look at all the rescue attempts for assholes who get themsleves stuck on mountains during climbs/hikes.

[BlooInBloo]

3. The difference between the tourists and the nola victims is clear.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

4. I'm assuming the tourists weren't poor black people.

[theHandpuppet]

6. From the film clips I saw, not a brown face among them

They just sauntered off the back of that big-assed copter as if it was their due, just another sunny day in privileged Amerikka. And I'll bet there was also a plane waiting to fly them back to the states.

[SteelPenguin]

5. Rational?

As in rational decision, or rational explanation?

I think the difference is the level. If there had been 20 people on a rooftop in NOLA, and that was all, they would have been airlifted in hours. The problem was scale. There weren't 20 people in NOLA, there were 60 THOUSAND. So they froze. Brownie froze, the Governor froze, everyone just froze.

I'm sure someone will look at this and say "oh well it's ok to save rich people" but I don't think that's it. I think the incompetence of the necessary officials involved in NOLA was so great that they were incapable of even grasping the extent of the problem they were facing. Just look at Brownie's emails at the time joking around.

[theHandpuppet]

8. Then they could have saved 20 at a time

Beats doing nothing and leaving people to die.

[SteelPenguin]

14. Well I think people were

There were a few (boats etc) going in and out but obviously 20 at a time you're not going to make a dent on 60,000.

The problem is decisionmaking. There were people who were doing nothing waiting for an order, because an evacuation of that scale takes coordination from the top, or it'll just get worse. These were all professionals so they were told to take a position at X, or wait for orders from Y, and they did so. The coordination and leadership was absent. As far as major actions the President, Brownie and FEMA, the governor, they all froze into this beurocratic incompetent nightmare simply because of the scale.

If it had been 20 or 100 or even a 1000 they would have all been gone quickly. The decision to send 5 chopppers in is easy to make "do it", but the ability to coordinate thousands, or even tens of thousands of rescue workers, thousands of pieces of materiel and land sea and air vehicles, and get them to work together to save those people was beyond the ken of a man whose last job was to judge show horses.

NOLA/Katrina is the perfect example and representation of the Republican Party and the current administration. Utter incompetence and arrogance coupled with backscratching and moneygrubbing which leads to innocent people dying.

[TwilightGardener]

10. I agree with you that it was the scale of the disaster that makes the difference here, but

as the other poster said, if all you can save is 20 at a time, then better to save groups of 20 than none at all. Of course, many WERE eventually saved, but only after days of no food, water, sitting on a roof, etc.--almost too late.

[SteelPenguin]

15. Of course it's better to save small groups

However when you're trying to coordinate a large scale rescue effort you don't just say "hey anyone witha helicopter fly over to the convention center and start picking people up"

Obviously, that would be better than doing absolutely nothing, but what would have been EVEN better would have been an actual extraction of those people that was coordinated. The problem was that the scale screamed for someone who had any clue on how to coordinate that sort of action, and there was nobody with that qualification involved because the guy in charge was lucky enough to have shared a dorm with Bush's raquetball buddy or whatever.

The scale caused them to freeze because they couldn't figure out the coordination and meanwhile people died.

[notadmblnd]

12. That is just a poor excuse.

There was ample time and transportation to evacuate the poor from the city but Mayor Nagin chose to park the buses and let them drown along with the people. Then after the storm when transportation attempted to roll from surrounding cities/states to evacuate the people, they were stopped from entering at the outskirts of the city.

[SteelPenguin]

17. utter incompetence is a poor excuse?

sure, but it's an explanation. There was incompetence at every step of the way from the Mayor up to the President. The question though wasn't about what caused the people to be stranded, but why the difference in rescue of 20 vs. 60,000 and the difference, post disaster is obviously scale.

[notadmblnd]

22. No, that the scale of the disaster was unmanageable

but incompetence I think is a poor excuse too. What happened in NO was intentional. Just go back and read the threads from that night here on DU. When a fire broke out in a garbage chute at the Superdome, the national guard was prepared to lock the doors (with the people inside) and pull the plug on the entire rescue operation. The only thing that stopped them was that the fire chief refused to leave until the fire was out and the smoke had cleared. When survivors tried to walk out the next few days they were stopped from leaving the city limits at one of the bridges. bush was playing politics, wouldn't send in help unless Gov Blanco would turn over authority of the City over to the Feds. They didn't plan the storm, but they sure as hell intentionally neglected those people. It was not incompetence.

[theHandpuppet]

18. And they re-elected that incompetent Bushbot

That's what gets me. Frankly I don't know how he sleeps at night.

[peacetalksforall]

7. Where's the link - I think we have to know who authorized it and paid for it -

which agency - what was the chain that resulted in a rescue.

We need to know why some of our citizens are crapped on and some vacationers are graced - why they weren't evacuated before they had to be rescued.

Was the U.S. right there?

By the way - I think it's time to reframe NOLA. I think it's time, given what we know of the inattention and disrespect for it's citizens that we call the entire episode - WARD 13. When the hurricane hit WARD 13. Whatever it is - WARD 13. Call it WARD 13. The rest of the city is doing better. WARD 13 is what they want to bulldoze down and take. There are terrorists in WARD 13 - our own right wing leaders.

[theHandpuppet]

9. This was a report and film on The Today Show this morning

I saw and heard it for myself. I would imagine that MSNBC will have clips as well. If you want "links" I'm sure there are reports out there but I'm telling you what I saw with my own eyes this morning.

[peacetalksforall]

24. Thanks for reporting to us and for the lead.

[theHandpuppet]

16. Here's a link/article for you

I grabbed this one off weather.com

Tourists airlifted, natives stranded in Honduras

9:23 a.m. ET 9/4/2007
The Associated Press
LA CEIBA, Honduras (AP) -- Hurricane Felix roared ashore early Tuesday as a fearsome category 5 storm -- the first time in recorded history that two top-scale storms have made landfall in the same season.

<snipping>

On Tuesday, in the final hours before Hurricane Felix was expected to hit, Grupo Taca Airlines frantically airlifted tourists from the Honduran island of Roatan, popular for its pristine reefs and diving resorts, while the U.S. Southern Command said in a statement that a Chinook helicopter evacuated 19 U.S. citizens, including tourists and members of U.S. Joint Task Force-Bravo who were visiting the island.

Bob Shearer, 54, from Butler, Pa., said he was disappointed his family's scuba diving trip to Roatan was cut short by the evacuation order.

"I only got seven dives in. I hope they didn't jump the gun too soon," he said as he waited for a flight home in the San Pedro Sula airport.

Well gee, Bob, glad you're so worried about the thousands who are going to DIE because of this hurricane!! :grr:

[peacetalksforall]

25. Only seven dives in and worrying that their could have been more.

[stillcool]

11. Interesting...

especially in that neck of the woods.

[obxhead]

13. OK

We can't scream at them for inaction in the past and then fault them for action in the present.

I would like to know who was so important for them to send the chopper though.

[theHandpuppet]

19. This will give you a clue on who gets the Chinook

I posted this above but just in case anyone missed it...

Tourists airlifted, natives stranded in Honduras

9:23 a.m. ET 9/4/2007
The Associated Press
LA CEIBA, Honduras (AP) -- Hurricane Felix roared ashore early Tuesday as a fearsome category 5 storm -- the first time in recorded history that two top-scale storms have made landfall in the same season.

<snipping>

On Tuesday, in the final hours before Hurricane Felix was expected to hit, Grupo Taca Airlines frantically airlifted tourists from the Honduran island of Roatan, popular for its pristine reefs and diving resorts, while the U.S. Southern Command said in a statement that a Chinook helicopter evacuated 19 U.S. citizens, including tourists and members of U.S. Joint Task Force-Bravo who were visiting the island.

Bob Shearer, 54, from Butler, Pa., said he was disappointed his family's scuba diving trip to Roatan was cut short by the evacuation order.

"I only got seven dives in. I hope they didn't jump the gun too soon," he said as he waited for a flight home in the San Pedro Sula airport.

Well gee, Bob, glad you're so worried about the thousands who are going to DIE because of this hurricane!!

[Xenotime]

20. This is disgusting...

People are still suffering and these people are treated like VIP

[TwilightGardener]

21. Did these people not watch the forecasts? Why go there during hurricane season

for vacation? Why not leave BEFORE helicopters are required--why put rescue crews in danger, and cause that expense? I sure hope they have to reimburse the government for their ride.

[havocmom]

23. Didn't some Coast Guard officers get in trouble for sending choppers up in NOLA

as soon as it was possible to fly? Seem to recall the Coasties went into action, doing what they train to do, and some caught hell for it.

Anybody have links? I have to leave soon but will check back when I have time to do a google hunt and post what I find if no one beats me to it.

Semper Paratus really pissed off bushco. Semper Paratus- the Coast Guard was there and working.