McCain to high-schooler: "Thanks for the question, you little jerk"

[sabra]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/09/04/mccain-laughs-off-the-age-question/

<snip>

When a student at a Concord, N.H., high school suggested McCain was too old to be president, the 71-year-old Republican candidate laughed it off. “Thanks for the question, you little jerk,'’ McCain shot back. “You’re drafted.'’

McCain, also under fire for his support of the Iraq war, told the students that “If this war continues much longer, there will be people in this audience who will serve in the military, who also may be going over there (in Iraq) or to Afghanistan,'’ the AP reported.

[hlthe2b]

1. wowser... just when you think his campaign can't get worse...

[formerrepuke]

2. And they'll be of voting age in 2008.. NOW who is the jerk??

[baby_mouse]

Positively Coulteresque.

Sometimes I think these clowns are deliberately trying to foment revolution.

[Bucky]

80. McCain is definitely missing the smarm factor of Ms Coulter

Credit where it's due: McCain talks to people like they're people. Coulter talks to people like she's trying to get all the other girls at the "cool table" to go tease the new handicapped kid.

[Hieronymus]

3. He's senile.

[MiniMe]

4. Boy, he is in self-destruct mode

[patrice]

5. Playing to his base.

God-intoxicated, blasphemous, authoritarian OLD jerks, who think the whole purpose of younger genertions is to proove to them that they did the "right thing".

[SeattleGirl]

6. Wow, John, way to connect with the young people!

Good grief!

[Arugula Latte]

78. It's okay. He told one kid that The Beatles are "groovy" and

told another that his shirt was "far out," so, you know, he probably had them eating out of the palm of his hand after that. ;)

[StClone]

7. John, by retiring now you are still a hero

You are old, tired and only hurting what has been a decent and honorable career of service to America.

[underpants]

8. Eh that's actually kinda funny

I saw a clip of McCain still campaigning over the weekend. I think that is the right approach I don't see any of them holding up much longer and he can swoop back in an get the nomination....okay probably not. This is still relaxed and funny.

[speedoo]

39. I see nothing funny about a draft or this war.

Curious as to what you think is funny about it.

[underpants]

47. I think it was a funny comment to the "little jerk"

and the threat of being drafted is funny.

[speedoo]

56. So if you were threatened with being drafted, and sent to Iraq...

would you think it was funny?

I am still not understanding where the humor is in this.

[SlowDownFast]

9. McCain's a freakin basket case.

That's what happens when you sell your soul.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. Congrats, John! You might have created a lifelong democrat!!

Keep up the good work. Your check is in the mail.

[renie408]

11. Oh dear. McCain is breaking up. n/t

[bridgit]

12. "Well thank *you* grandpa poopy pants!!"

[SoCalDem]

82. Like my sig says..

:rofl:

[bridgit]

111. heheee!!

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[beberocks]

13. Kid was right; McCain's gone senile

And it is not a reflection of McCain's age--he lost his marbles when he started embracing B*sh policies. He sold his soul to the devil to be president, and people know it. The saddest thing is that even though he is not a chickenhawk--he went through hell during his military service--he wishes that fate on the young people of America. I hope a few of them realized that voting repuke automatically means more war and mandatory military service.

[Kali]

45. sold his soul when he started embracing B*sh, period.

:P >too lazy to look up that photo, but you know which one<

[Cyrano]

14. Ahhh, a man who has wit, humor, a thick skin, respect for the opinions of others,

the understanding that the last thing a high schooler needs is to be mocked (especially by someone in a position of power), and the quickness of mind to come up with a Bush league response.

Go, McCain. None of your opponents need to run you over with a bus. You're doing a good enough job of it yourself.

[LibDemAlways]

15. What is it with repukes and kids?

A couple of years ago then California Education Secretary and former LA Mayor Richard Riordan publically told a small child at an event that her name meant "stupid, dirty girl." Same thing with George Allen and "Macaca." Do these guys have so little respect for young people that they think they can get away with belittling them for a cheap laugh?

I hope this backfires on McCain big time. There was a jerk present, all right - the one standing on the stage.

[supernova]

17. They have little respect for

anyone who isn't a powerful rich white male like themselves.

Still, MacCain's gaffe is funny. :D He's ensuring he will never be the nominee with that attitude.

[momster]

35. They Don't Vote,

so they don't matter. A child doesn't write a check to a campaign, so they don't matter. Plus, for some strange reason, Republican politicians all think they are funny, funnier than Jon Stewart on his best day. If we would all just 'lighten up', we'd see how really funny they are.

Sheesh. If I was that stupid, I'd just lie down and wait for the robins to feed me.

[LibDemAlways]

48. They don't vote, but their parents do. How many people would

vote for someone who called their kid or their friend or relative's kid a jerk? McCain's an idiot, even if he was only trying to be funny.

[Eurobabe]

16. He's NUTZ!!! Do not let this geezer near the football!!

[iverglas]

18. reminds me of John Kerry

C'mon, everybody remembers:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/01/kerry.remarks/index.html

The controversy started Monday when Kerry, speaking at a rally for California gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides at Pasadena City College, said: "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Afterward, a Kerry aide explained that the senator had "mangled" a prepared statement, which was actually supposed to be a barb at Bush: "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."

And everybody remembers the disingenuous outcry by people pretending to believe Kerry was insulting members of the armed forces.

Obviously, some people remember it very well. And they obviously believe that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

McCain was making a joke, for the love of all the universe. Pretending to think otherwise, or even to be outraged at the joke itself, is just dumb and ugly.

And not much different from all the right-wing outrage visible on the net about John Edwards proposing to force people to get healthcare ...

[CTyankee]

24. Except that McCain's remark was so, well, Republican.

Meanspirited. Calling someone "a little jerk" is an insult. Kerry's and Edwards'remarks were not.

[LibDemAlways]

25. I realize McCain was only trying (and not succeeding) at

being funny, but I still get the sense that it was one of those only "half-joking" moments, and an inappropriate thing for a Presidential candidate to say in the first place.

[Virginia Dare]

49. Yep, just imagine it was HRC calling some kid a little jerk....

what would the reaction be?

[iverglas]

50. I dunno

First I'd have to imagine that John McCain ACTUALLY CALLED A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT A JERK. I'm afraid I'm just not as ready to believe 18 absurd things before breakfast as I'd need to be, to believe that ... or as disingenuous as I'd have to be to pretend that to think that this exchange did not occur in jest.

I mean, sheesh. The high school student in question had just called McCain a senile old goat who shouldn't be president, and McCain responded in character. I'll bet there are lots of people here who really, really don't get the joke. Not.

I would suggest that s/he who has never called anyone a derogatory name in jest cast the first stone here. Forgive me if I snicker at anyone who tries to claim that designation.

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. Yeah, he was obviously trying to put on the whole "hey kid, get off my lawn" act

I loathe McCain more than anyone and hope he finishes dead last in the Republican primaries, but there are more than enough things to legitimately criticize him over that this just seems silly.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

52. Sure I've called people derogatory names in jest,

but here's the kicker: I'm not a 70 something year old guy running for pres addressing a 17 year old. And capping it off by saying that some of this kid's friends could be serving in the military in an unnecessary war that most of the country have turned against.

Slight difference don't you think?

[DS1]

98. Most are

and it's not a polite question in the first place.

[karynnj]

86. Shock - She's far too mature to do that

A person of stature highh enough to contemplate being President doesn't get into that kind of fight with a kid.

(and I don't like Hillary Clinton.)

[WinkyDink]

57. "Whippersnapper" is a joke; "jerk" is kidding on the square.

As for your Biblical allusion: maybe our Presidential candidates can at least hold THEMSELVES, for their own INTERESTS, to a higher standard.

But hey~~~McCain can make these types of wisecracks all year long, for all I care. Let the Republican Primaries voters' senses of humor be the ones tested.

[iverglas]

60. and once again, I am the only person at DU

who knows how to use a fucking INTERNET SEARCH ENGINE.

I refer you and anyone else who suffers from this deficiency to post 59.

And I just dare any of you to keep on pretending to be outraged.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

63. And I see a difference between calling a colleague or an

adult a jerk & calling a 17 year old a jerk.

BTW, I don't find calling anyone a jerk 'endearing' but hey, to each his own. If you think it's just honky dory how about if we use it on you?

[Ghost in the Machine]

79. So it's *your* job to tell us how to think or what to be outraged at??

All you've shown is that McCain likes to belittle people by calling them "little jerks", which is what I call someone when I really want to say "you low life fucking scumbag jackass. "Little Jerk" just sounds better in the grocery store or around old church ladies.

But feel free to keep on thinking that you're all high & mighty, and more intelligent than anyone else here because you can 'use teh googles' :eyes: No, really... you're the smartest person here. I mean it! Really!

I'm more annoyed at your statement than anything McLame had to say. I've probably forgotten more about computers, the internet & search engines than you've ever learned.

[iverglas]

84. nah

So it's *your* job to tell us how to think or what to be outraged at??

It's just my job to keep on pointing out the silly tricks that so many people like to play in their efforts to portray something as something it isn't.

All you've shown is that McCain likes to belittle people by calling them "little jerks"

Look! There's one now!


I've probably forgotten more about computers, the internet & search engines than you've ever learned.

Hmm. I guess you're referring to my statement:

and once again, I am the only person at DU who knows how to use a fucking INTERNET SEARCH ENGINE

and pretending not to notice that it was A FACETIOUS STATEMENT DRIPPING WITH SARCASM directed at people who care more about their own self-rightous mock indignation over nothing than about finding out whether there is something in the great wide world that they don't know and that it might be useful to know before spewing forth self-rightous indignation that, if not mock, is just dumb.

So oh look -- there goes another one!

[Ghost in the Machine]

89. A question about your search?

I see you posted your reply #59 at 3:55 pm. According to the linked article, this happened this morning, and was posted on the internet at 11:55 am.

"September 4, 2007, 11:55 am
McCain Laughs Off the Age Question

McCain
Sen. John McCain might take some solace in the fact that many in his high-school audience this morning will still be too young to vote next year." http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/09/04/mccain-laughs-off-the-age-question

So we have a time of 4 hours between this article being posted and YOU posting here. Now I'm sure it took you a few minutes to search all the internet, gather your links, then post them here... right? So I figure you started your search around 3:30 pm, correct?

Not many, if ANY search engine spiders would have picked up on that article yet. Busy sites with constantly changing content get searched more, and faster, than sites with static content that doesn't change. However, given that 3.5 hour period, it's doubtful that Google or Yahoo spiders picked it up yet.

Try your search again in a couple of hours.. or even now, since it's been 3 hours since your initial search.

I'll stick to this issue, since we are going to disagree about whether we "lovingly" call someone a 'little jerk'.

[iverglas]

92. I have a good solution for that problem

Not many, if ANY search engine spiders would have picked up on that article yet.

I just don't open my mouth until I know what I'm talking about.

In this particular case, I really didn't have any difficulty recognizing a joke when I saw it -- as I think you'll see my post 18 at 1:43 pm indicates -- without needing any third-party interpretation to help me out.


I'll stick to this issue, since we are going to disagree about whether we "lovingly" call someone a 'little jerk'.

Well, good luck finding someone to disagree with on that. You could try the reporter who wrote that McCain meant it lovingly when he referred to an aide haranguing him about his lousy driving as such, since that's who said it, not moi. Or maybe the aide himself. Hell, maybe somebody will find the kid from this story and ask him how he took the remarks actually made to him. I'm not saying that something can't be objectively objectionable even if the person it is said to takes no exception to it, but I do think that the kid in question just might have some insight into the atmosphere in which the words were spoken. And I do think that's a very relevant consideration.

[Ghost in the Machine]

103. "And I do think that's a very relevant consideration." I agree with you 100% about that.

As long as the kid wasn't offended, I guess it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Like I said, I wasn't outraged over his statement... I think it was a dumb move, but who knows. I think it sounded belittling myself, but then again, I don't know the tone & inflection it was said with. Maybe he should have said "little brat" and no one would have raised an eyebrow. Hell, I call my kids 'little brats' all the time.. but I wouldn't belittle them by calling the "little jerks", even if I was kidding...

[iverglas]

108. I think it's an idiosyncracy, almost a verbal tic, being overread

When I found all those references to him saying "you little jerk", I was reminded of nothing so much as the fugitive criminal I've always remembered hearing about on the news many years ago.

I don't remember whether he was in the US or in Canada ... but his identifying feature was that he called inanimate objects "turkey". If he wanted the salt shaker, he'd say "pass me that turkey", was the example I remember being given as what to watch for in case one encountered him. So I just had a vision of McCain saying "pass me that little jerk".

Maybe he should switch to "thanks for the question, you turkey!"

[WinkyDink]

94. Well, aren't you just the clever little jerk?

[iverglas]

101. must be

Hey, at least I know that when someone says imitation is the sincerest form of flattery s/he is not making a "Biblical allusion". Yeeeesh. Everybody knows it was Shakespeare.

http://www.bartleby.com/100/690.57.html

John Bartlett (1820–1905). Familiar Quotations, 10th ed. 1919.

NUMBER: 8307
AUTHOR: Miscellaneous
QUOTATION: Imitation is the sincerest flattery.
ATTRIBUTION: C. C. Colton (1780–1832): The Lacon.

Haha! Gotcha. Little self-deprecating humour there. I actually assumed it was Shakespeare.

http://www.worldofquotes.com/topic/Flattery/index.html

Nay, do not think I flatter. For what advancement may I hope from thee, That no revenue hast but thy good spirits To feed and clothe thee? Why should the poor be flattered? No, let the candied tongue like absurd pomp, And crook the pregnant hinges of the knee Where thrift may follow fawning.
Author: William Shakespeare
Source: Hamlet Prince of Denmark (Hamlet at III, ii)

That means: never worry what someone on an internet board thinks of you, 'cause what they think of you is of no never mind at all.


When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'

[Dora]

120. See, now that's an example of "disingenuous."

Thanks!

And while we're all still pretending to be outraged, we'll just keep on pretending that the sky is blue. It can't be, right? I mean, just because we say blue is blue and that the sky is blue doesn't mean that it is, right?

Oh, now I'm being disingenuous. Silly me! I'm American!

[Cameron27]

19. What a dumb-ass

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

20. I love the smell of self imploding wing nuts in the morning! n/t

[Forkboy]

21. What a dick.

[IDemo]

22. Definite Worst Person in the World nominee for tonight

[sailor65]

23. Am I the only one who sees this

as what was probably a humorous situation? These were high school kids who probably got a laugh out of it. The OP's link even acknowledges it as a "Laugh Line."

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

27. I'm sure several of us see that. However, if there's a god

then the media will twist this the way they twisted Gore's words. You know, "I invented the internet", my mother sang "look for the union label", etc. All of which were twisted by the press.

[tabasco]

34. Gore never uttered the words "I invented the internet."

Total bullshit. They didn't twist his words, they put them in his mouth.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

40. I thought I saw him on Leno or Letterman saying that,

but it was said in a totally joking way. The same way he joked when he said that his mom sang "look for the union label" when he was in his crib. The audience got the joke. The media did their typical "Gore's a liar" bullshit. Which went beyond bullshit & into criminal behavior.

I will never forgive or forget modo, cici, & the other offenders.

[tabasco]

64. Here's a site that discusses the lie.

It didn't start on Leno. It's possible that Gore made a joke about it later.

[noahmijo]

117. To clarify this "incident" happened on Larry King Gore actually said

"During my time (or tenure) in the Senate I took the initiative of creating the internet"

Which is an accurate statement considering he pushed the idea of expanding arpanet into what it is today and he pushed for the funding for it.

It amazes me AMAZES me to this day that your average American doesn't realize that Gore is a primary reason why they get to play couch commando on their right wing blogs every Sunday morning after church.

[Catherine Vincent]

119. No. The media has and will twist it in jerky McCain's favor.

Blitzer showed the clip and thought McCain he was coming back into form, or something like that. I thought, :wtf:

[countingbluecars]

41. I don't see the humor

in "you little jerk".

[wicket]

81. You're not the only one

:hi:

[Ghost in the Machine]

95. It may have been more humorous if he'd said "little BRAT"...

but I guess it could have been funny if said in a "why I oughta.." or "why you little.." way. It's impossible to capture tone & inflection in black & white print.

I'm not outraged or upset over it, I just think it may have showed a little insensitivity on his part, even if he was just trying to put off a "hey, I'm a funny guy!" image of himself...

[HughMoran]

100. Yeah, it was clearly a yuk-yuk line

OTOH, he looked like an ass when he stood firm on his assinine view of civil unions.

[Enrique]

112. you're not the only one

[tanyev]

26. And McCain merrily crosses the line from maverick into mad cow.

[TwilightGardener]

28. Holy shit, folks, he was clearly kidding--he has kids that age, I think

he understands that they can grasp the humor. Apparently none of you can.

[underpants]

29. :-)

I did

See post above

[shain from kane]

32. "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" Here's another laugh for you. When does it

being funny?




"McCain began his answer by changing the words to a popular Beach Boys song," the Georgetown Times reports.

"'Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran,' he sang to the tune of Barbara Ann," the paper notes.

[speedoo]

36. Yeah, right. Stupid and morbid fucking joke, if he actually intended humor.

He should stop embarrassing himself. Seriously, end his campaign and go back to Arizona and think about resigning from the Senate as well.

I really think he is unstable, at this point.

[libnnc]

42. Making jokes about drafting kids into endless war...

Ha. Ha. Hee. Hee.

Stop. It.

You're killing me....



what a fucking freak :freak:

[Mandate My Ass]

43. If so, it stopped being funny at "you're drafted."

He might as well have said the kid would be dead before long while old John McCain would still be living his useless, bushco ass-kissing life.

[DemGa]

30. McCain's mentally unstable

I think Turd Blossom got that one right.

[rosesaylavee]

31. He's just acting true to form

Thanks to SoCalDem for the above pic. Anyone know where to buy the bumper sticker? I would buy several if I could find a source.

[speedoo]

33. Nice, McCain. Now go kiss *'s ass some more.

The man is officially now a fucking retard.

[Mr. Ected]

37. I Still Hope He Gets the Nomination

In fact, I PRAY that he gets the nomination.

Go John!!

You'd be the best thing to happen to the Democratic Party since...Bush.

[AlCzervik]

38. Oh looks like someone is defensive. It's not his age that disqualifies him

it's his suckiness.

[BootinUp]

44. What a dodo. lol. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

46. Not too young to send to Iraq, though, right John?

[Critters2]

53. So, he's decided he doesn't want to be president? nt

[BlueIris]

54. Yikers.

Shudder.

[Superman Returns]

55. come on people

context is everything. This was clearly a joke, he said it in a comical way. Faux outrage is dumb. Criticize him for his politics not this silly stuff.

[Raine]

116. I agree

I've heard others reply in somewhat the same way...I don't like to keep myself churned up over stuff that is what it is...a joke.

[Ino]

58. I can see where "you little jerk" would be joking...

a little chagrined payback at having his age pointed out, a tit-for-tat. But following it up with You're drafted is bullying, threatening, I can single you out and snuff you out. Much like a boss who answers a good-natured poke at him with the "joking" reply you're fired. The comment is inappropriate and out-of-proportion, a muscle flex designed to intimidate.

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran

[iverglas]

59. OH LOOK. Here's an interesting thing

I thought I'd see whether this exchange had made it to youtube. I searched the site for

McCain jerk

and this is what I got, from 3 months ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkeNWqOLTjk

McCain greets a journalist who is off camera and says (as best I can tell), while shaking his hand and smiling:

"Good t'see ya showed up ya li'l jerk, I didn't see ya in Iowa."


Now, here's one that seems to be in reference to someone else:

http://blogs.thestate.com/bradwarthensblog/2007/05/so_thats_where_.html

Thursday, 17 May 2007
So THAT'S where 'that little jerk' was...

When John McCain was peering into the lights looking for "that little jerk" Lindsey Graham, his friend and ally was still on the way back from Washington.

I'm not familiar with the cast of characters myself, but here's some more:

http://jakers.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/was-john-mccain-wearing-flip-flops-or-crocs/

“That little jerk, Lindsey Graham…”–John McCain referring to the Robin to his Batman at the afterparty after the May 16, 2007 debate held in Columbia, South Carolina.

And from even longer ago:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19085-2004May11.html

Wednesday, May 12, 2004; Page C01

John McCain drives like he lives: with conviction, impatience and a willingness to cross dividing lines.

"JOHN, A TRUCK!" an aide yells from the back seat.

"I see it, I see it," says McCain, veering right, just missing the truck.

"Joe, you're a little jerk," McCain tells the aide. He means this lovingly.

But wait, there's more!

http://greenmountainpolitics1.blogspot.com/2007/03/on-bus.html

We know a grand entrance when we see it and so we said, "Actually Senator we're from GreenMountainPolitics1, which is a New Hampshire Primary Blog."

The good Senator, without missing a beat, stuck out his hand and growled in a most good natured way, "Oh yeah, how did you get on here you little jerk?"

And GreenMountainPolitics1, without missing a beat, growled right back, "Diaz let us on!" and shook the Senator's hand.

It's a term of endearment, about which no one who has ever been the butt of it ever seems to have pitched a fit. And there's the proof. Not that I needed any. I thought it was plain from the starting gate, and equally plain that very many of the people all over the internet and media pitching a fit about the incident in question are witless ... as in too dim to get it, or to disingenuous to acknowledge it.

The great wonkette acknowledges the joke, but strives to be in the witless category anyhow:
http://wonkette.com/politics/how-to-make-friends-and-influence-people-dept'/john-mccain-old-and-in-the-way-296233.php

forget the Youtubes and the Myspaces, the best way to alienate teens is right to their adorable, shiny faces!

The Boston Globe is made of, er, sterner stuff:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/09/mccain_addresse.html

McCain addresses age issue with humor

Talk about not respecting your elders. ...

Gee; yeah, eh?

[Dora]

66. Are you saying you think it's appropriate?

I think it reflects a pattern of passive-aggressive name-calling. You know what they say, if you can't say something nice about the person who's right in front of you, just call him a "little jerk" and call it affection.

But it looks like McCain has followed the leader. Bush loves giving those around him nicknames - and they're usually faintly derogatory.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

67. Oh no. We're just

too dim to get it, or to disingenuous to acknowledge it..

See. That's our problem. We just don't like being called names in 'jest'. Bad Dora! Bad wakemeup! Bad. Bad. Bad. Humorless DUers! :sarcasm:

I think it was Paul O'Neill who was the only WH official who spoke out & said that he found dumbya's 'pet names' degrading.

[iverglas]

68. I'm saying that I think people pitching fits about it

are either too dim to grasp the real meaning or too disingenuous to admit that they do. In fact, I think that's pretty much what I have said already.

I think it reflects a pattern of passive-aggressive name-calling.

Yeah, I think it's a great big important thing that needs to be psychoanalyzed into the ground, too. Not.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

69. Yes. You're right. Because I don't like name calling then

I'm dim or disingenuous. So you just called me names. Way to get your point across. Not.

[iverglas]

71. ah, if only I'd said that

then I might have been wrong. But I didn't. Hard bananas, eh?

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

72. Your favorite move. Post something then deny it.

How's that block feature working out for you? Oh. I forgot. You didn't put anyone on block. :rofl:

It's a term of endearment, about which no one who has ever been the butt of it ever seems to have pitched a fit. And there's the proof. Not that I needed any. I thought it was plain from the starting gate, and equally plain that very many of the people all over the internet and media pitching a fit about the incident in question are witless ... as in too dim to get it, or to disingenuous to acknowledge it.

i.e anyone who objects is dim or disingenuous, meaning me.

[iverglas]

76. talk about yer res ipsa loquitur!

How's that block feature working out for you? Oh. I forgot. You didn't put anyone on block.

Hey -- I'll bet you're hoping someone will believe I have other posters on "block" (does that feature actually still exist)? And that I didn't object strenuously to the introduction of the feature *and* carefully go through the Guns forum at this site putting every single person who disagreed with me about firearms policy on "block" as what turned out to be a rather successful practical joke (the targets thought it was funny, anyhow) to demonstrate the stupidity of the entire thing. Is that what you were doing? Eh? Ne'er mind. We know.

But hey, thanks for the excellent demonstration of what disingenuous ... or was that dim? ... looks like when it's at home. Well done.


So yuppers, after demonstrating conclusively that McCain uses the expression "you little jerk" as a term of endearment, I did shorely say:

the people all over the internet and media pitching a fit about the incident in question are witless ... as in too dim to get it, or to disingenuous to acknowledge it.

And then you said:

You're right. Because I don't like name calling then I'm dim or disingenuous.

And like I did say: IF I HAD SAID that someone who didn't like name calling, you or anyone else, was dim or disingenuous, then I might have been wrong.

If only I had said that, eh?

If you were nearby, I'd invite you to my living room tonight, so that you could pitch a self-righteous fit of indignation when I call the apple of my eye a dork, as I am pretty sure to do at some point in the evening. I mean, surely that's name-calling, so surely you wouldn't like it, and surely anyone who berated me for it wouldn't be at all dim or disingenuous ...

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

90. I guess you're one of those that run around

calling people you don't know names.

Being American, dim & disingenuous, I find that rude.

[Ghost in the Machine]

105. Terms of endearment

You said:

"So yuppers, after demonstrating conclusively that McCain uses the expression "you little jerk" as a term of endearment, I did shorely say:

the people all over the internet and media pitching a fit about the incident in question are witless ... as in too dim to get it, or to disingenuous to acknowledge it."

Would you be just as supportive of his actions if you found out his 'pet nickname for his wife was "you dumb bitch" or "you dumb c*nt"? I mean, afterall, he's just kidding, right? It's not like he means it or anything. It's not degrading or belittling either, is it?

There's a BIG difference also between you calling your child, whom you have a lifelong relationship with, a "dork", and a stranger, even though he is a public figure, calling some kid he doesn't even know a "little jerk".

[Dora]

74. I am neither dim nor disingenuous. But thanks for inspiring me to check my dictionary.

After some checking, I disagree with your use of disingenuous, but that's a quibble. It has a nice number of syllables, and is used rarely enough that most people just think it Sounds Right.

so....

You think it's No Big Deal for an elected official to exhibit a pattern of calling people jerks.

A pattern of calling people names, particularly when in the public eye, demonstrates a marked incapacity to observe the boundary between private jocularity and public humor.

People who behave like this do it because 1) they aren't aware of these social niceties, or 2) they don't give a damn.

People with Asperger's fall into the first category. Power-hungry fascists fall into the second.

Who is overanalyzing? I've posted twice now on the subject. And you?

[iverglas]

77. and what dictionary was that?

My Oxford Concise is trapped in a packing box at the moment, so I'll have to use online resources.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/disingenuous

1. Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating: ...
2. Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf.

Hmm. It strikes me that expressions of mock outrage fall within that "not straightforward or candid" bit. And the pretense of not grasping the meaning of an idiosyncratic use of an expression, like pretending not to notice that something is a figure of speech or other rhetorical device (you know, like sarcasm), qualifies quite well as "faux-naïf". So I don't know what your problem with my use of the word is.


A pattern of calling people names, particularly when in the public eye, demonstrates a marked incapacity to observe the boundary between private jocularity and public humor.

An idiosyncratic use of a PARTICULAR "name" to address people in a jocularly familiar way just doesn't actually come under the rubric of "a pattern of calling people names", you see.

And if a single one of the butts of this particular name had ever given any indication that s/he found it anything other than amusing, if even worth thinking about long enough to find it anything, there might be a point to that boundary business. I'm not seeing one.


People who behave like this do it because 1) they aren't aware of these social niceties, or 2) they don't give a damn.

Yes. Sadly, you've failed to establish that the "this" they behave like is something that only people in class (1) or class (2) behave like. So you could just as well be saying that people who sleep on their left side do it because 1) they aren't aware of these social niceties, or 2) they don't give a damn.


Who is overanalyzing? I've posted twice now on the subject. And you?

Me?? I thought McCain's quip was mildly amusing -- as, in fact, an example of self-deprecating humour. Being Canadian, I'm used to self-deprecating humour. I understand that it is a foreign language to people in some other places. I could spend a while deconstructing what he said, and explaining how it falls into that class of humour if you like, but it would probably be pointless.

I was astounded that anyone could perceive it as anything else. Or would claim to perceive it as anything else.

So I did my research -- I tried to determine whether there was audio of the exchange in question, that would either confirm or refute the impression I got from the transcription of it. I had no bloody idea that I would find that McCain regularly uses the expression as a term of endearment, and that I would find multiple instances when it had been done and no one got all self-righteously indignant about it.

And I shared my findings. And was amazed (okay, that's sarcasm) to find that there were those who still wanted to do the self-righteous indignation thing. And there we are.

[Dora]

83. On sincerity, disingenuousness, and self-deprecating humor

I'm perfectly sincere when I say that I think it's inappropriate for McCain to call anybody a jerk in a public forum. It's unprofessional and it's Just Bad Manners.

Your labeling opinions with qualities that you can denigrate, e.g., "self-righteous" and "disingenous," only leads to an impression that it's difficult for you to defend your own opinion. And I hold fast that your use of disingenous is inappropriate in this context.

"I thought McCain's quip was mildly amusing -- as, in fact, an example of self-deprecating humour. Being Canadian, I'm used to self-deprecating humour."

Being American, I understand that my American-ness has willy-nilly to do with this conversation, but I'm going to go ahead and throw it into the mix because you did too. You declaim your nationality, and I'll declaim mine, and so on and so forth.

Being American (LOL! Look at me!) I understand that "self-deprecating humour" is, in fact, humor that's directed at oneself, usually a gentle self-directed put-down that's said in an effort to make others more comfortable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deprecation

McCain is calling other people jerks, has called other people jerks. Hmmm. Is everybody comfortable?

Who is disingenuous now???

[iverglas]

87. I'll try to help you

The high school student in question said (and it's interesting that this wasn't in the opening post; how many people have seen it?):

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/09/mccain_addresse.html

If elected, you'd be older than Ronald Reagan, making you the oldest president. Do you ever worry you might die in office or get Alzheimer's or some other disease that might affect your judgment?

According to that report, the crowd groaned. And then McCain said:

Thanks for the question, you little jerk. You're drafted.

I see that as mocking himself, by behaving in a stereotypical way for humourous effect. But it's always possible that I read too much in. Looking at the context, however -- I know, it's a lot of work --

http://www.wluctv6.com/Global/story.asp?S=7024905&nav=81AX

McCain started a 2-day trip through New Hampshire by explaining why he was not shrinking from his support for a temporary increase of troops in Iraq.

But students seemed to be more interested in pushing McCain on the environment, his support for gay rights and even his age.

To one student who questioned whether McCain might be too old to be president, the 71-year-old responded, "Thanks for the question, you little jerk" -- and added, "You're drafted."

-- it just strikes me that he was doing one of those self-referential things, referring back to his own position on sending more troops to Iraq (likely and deservedly unpopular among his audience), and poking fun at himself in reference to that.

Let's say I'm chubby, and I'm running for president of the health club, and fielding questions in a relaxed and informal atmosphere. I propose that skinny people pay higher dues (after all, skinny people earn more money on average). A skinny person gets up and asks whether I'm not too chubby to be running the health club. I say, jocularly, Thanks for the question, you big twit. Your fees just doubled.

(I'm just not familiar with the "you little jerk" epithet, but I say "you big twit" to my cats and my co-vivant all the time.)

The question itself was kinda insulting, but on the other hand my girth is arguably a bit of an issue, and I'd rather laugh it off than acknowledge it. I do so by jokingly dismissing the questioner and simultaneously poking fun at my own proposal.

Yes, the draft might be seen by some as an inappropriate subject matter for jocularity. Some who objected might even be people who would never ever engage in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_comedy

You say that self-deprecation is used "to make others more comfortable". Actually, Wiki says, and I agree, that it "can also be used to better oneself in social situations", and I would say that it is very commonly used to ingratiate one's self with others for one's own reasons, rather than in their interests.

I don't know whether McCain is prone to self-deprecating humour, so I don't know whether my interpretation was even reasonable. I'm not married to it. The joke here doesn't have to be self-deprecating to be funny.

But huh. Actually, it turns out he's rather renown for it ...

http://www.google.ca/search?num=30&hl=en&safe=off&q=mccain+self-deprecating+humor&btnG=Search&meta=

[iverglas]

91. wait, I screwed up the sequence!

All that googling made me dizzy. Here's how it went:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6895461,00.html

First:

An unflinching John McCain was told Tuesday by New Hampshire high school students he might be too old to be president and too conservative to be respected.

McCain, the Arizona senator whose presidential bid has stumbled through the summer, countered the Concord High School students with humor.

"Thanks for the question, you little jerk," McCain joked back to one student who asked the 71-year-old about his age. "You're drafted."

and then:

"If elected, you'd be older than Ronald Reagan, making you the oldest president. Do you ever worry you might die in office or get Alzheimer's or some other disease that might affect your judgment?" one student asked.

The audience groaned; McCain slid into a joke.

"I think it was one of my sons that alleged I'm getting to the point I hide my own Easter eggs," McCain said to laughter. "When you saw my 95-year-old mother (on a video introduction), you saw the kind of genes I have."

Now we will certainly all agree that *that* one was self-deprecating humour.

Now, looking at it yet again, it isn't clear that there wasn't a single question, referred to twice in the news report, with McCain's initial response given first and his elaboration given later in the article ...

Whatever. It was a joke. Every media report of the event has referred to humour and joking in some part of speech (noun, verb, adjective ...) or other when discussing it.

[WinkyDink]

96. Clarified:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/09/04/mccain-laughs-off-the-age-question

[WinkyDink]

97. That McCain ALWAYS calls others "jerks" does NOT make "jerk" any less a pejorative.

Moreover, this time he said it to a KID. Ooooh, BMOC, John!

[HughMoran]

106. You are correct

...but too many people here didn't get the joke, so it's now your fault for pointing it out - lol.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

107. Do you run around calling people (that you don't know)

names, too? And do you think it's funny? And are you 70 something & running for pres & call 17 year olds' names?

[HughMoran]

110. Keith Olberman just pointed out that it was clearly a joke

Perhaps not a funny joke, but not all that it's being made out to be...

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

114. I got that it was a joke. I don't find it humorous calling

people names. Especially 17 year olds. And the 17 year old actually asked a legitimate question: Raygun was asked the same thing. And, I find name calling bullying.

Also, unless mccain can see into someone's soul ala dumbya, & know how the person will react then someday it's gonna backfire. Someone, somewhere will take exception & fire back.

[HughMoran]

115. Oh, I agree, McCain is a jackass - especially since announcing

But I have to give him kudos - he's been a good sport by going on TDS many times and he can give and take unlike most Republicans. I know this man was just trying to have fun with a kid who was clearly giving him a nice undercut. I still think he's turned into an ass kissing Bush butt-licker though - so don't confuse my letting him slide on this joke thing with any support for him whatsoever.

[countingbluecars]

61. What a good role model.

I do not find calling a student "a little jerk" in any way funny. This was not the appropriate audience for such a "joke". Have we come to expect so little character in a presidential candidate?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

62. “If this war continues much longer, there will be people in this audience who will serve...."

Well, John (aka "Surge Protector"), if you're so worried about this war continuing much longer and some of these kids serving over there, why don't you do something to end it so that more people don't have to go over there?:puke:

[Disturbed]

65. McLame has always had this wacky sense of humor.

Remember when he said if Dems gain a majority in Congress that he would commit suicide? That was funny, wasn't it?

[Supersedeas]

70. If.....if the war goes on much long....he really believes there's an "if" there

[Manifestor_of_Light]

73. All Republicans are bullies. You didn't know that????

Threats and a total lack of humor or empathy or compassion.

Why is anyone surprised at this?

[Charlie Brown]

75. the worst thing about McCain's response is that it was a perfectly valid question (his age)

The student's delivery of the question was a little informal and blunt, but it does represent a valid concern for many voters , and McCain didn't seem particularly prepared to address it. All he could do was joke it off and call the kid a name.

There were plenty of better ways to respond to what is an issue for Americans (a President in his 70s), than McCain's "go to hell" response to the speaker. Sadly, this only lends credibility to the student's inferral that McCain is more susceptible to mental lapses or senility than a more intelligent response.

[Disturbed]

85. McLame is too arrogant to realize that he is done.

Most Americans don't want him to be Pres. His hero status has expired.

[opihimoimoi]

88. THE GOP is filled JERKs and Quirks......the whole lot of them...JERKS

[Coexist]

93. what a cranky old coot.

my my my.

[BootinUp]

109. the most appropriate response. lol.

[Initech]

99. What an ass!

There are a lot of really annoying candidates this go-round, but three that I really despise are John McCain (huge hypocritical douchebag), Rudy Guiliani (worst mayor ever), and Mitt Romney (annoying fundie freakwad). I seriously pray that none of them gets selected.

[LisaL]

102. Whether McCain wants it or not, his age is something that

voters are going to take into consideration.
Now, calling someone who brings that up a "little jerk" doesn't seem like a good way to win voters over, but maybe it's just me. LOL.

[lanlady]

104. McCain has his W.C. Fields moment

What a buffoon.

[Yukari Yakumo]

113. The current state of the McCain campaign...

{flush}

[Catherine Vincent]

118. That was a jerky thing to say.

It appears McCain says such things just to get cheers and jeers from the audience. And the kid was right, he is too old.