Whoopi Goldberg Defends Vick

[AngryAmish]

NEW YORK -- Whoopi Goldberg started her stint on ABC's "The View" Tuesday by coming to the defense of convicted felon Michael Vick.

Just 15 minutes into the show she brought up Vick's conviction on dogfighting charges.

"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg.

"There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of our country."

note: this not from The Onion

[yardwork]

1. That was an incredibly stupid thing for her to say.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Oh, then that makes it okay. Glad we cleared that up! nt

[alfredo]

20. I saw it and I don't feel she was defending his actions, just saying

he was a product of his upbringing. That doesn't mean she approves, but she understands why he thought it was OK to do.

I was raised in a community that had cock fightin and dog fighting. That's what the good ole boys did for fun. A few years back a guy on my mail route showed me some new spurs for his fighting cocks.
These are the English style similar to what he had.

[Annces]

22. Well if you had any backbone

You would have shown your disapproval of that. People have minds of their own, no matter where they are raised.

And why show that horrible picture?

[alfredo]

51. I agree it is brutal, but cock fighting was legal at that time here

in Kentucky.

I carried mail in an area called crack alley. It was a very dangerous neighborhood. If I had gone around being a snitch, I may not be here today.

[idgiehkt]

45. it's not a logical explanation

no one knows better what is a crime and what isn't than criminals. This isn't something he did out in the open, this was kept hidden.

I hope you reported that guy.

[alfredo]

47. My safety on my mail route depends on being neutral. That's why

we railed against the homeland security people wanting mail carriers to become snitches. I did report animal abuse because I know the relationship between that and child/spouse abuse.

Cock fighting was legal in Ky at that time, and I believe it is still legal.

[idgiehkt]

55. It's only legal in Louisiana, and will be illegal there in 8/2008

I understand your concern for your safety...animal fighting people are not the most upstanding characters and many are dangerous. But you can always make an anonymous report. Good for you for reporting the animal abuse (though cock-fighting is also animal abuse).

[alfredo]

67. Yes it is, but at that time it was legal.

Around that time my substitute got shot at. It took me a few days but I found out who it was. He went back to prison. Though I did that, I wasn't going to turn in a person for smoking weed, or prostitution. Everyone on the route knew what happened and that I was hopping mad. They helped me find the perp. Those actions were in line with the unwritten rules of that community. Though I didn't live there, I was a part of that community and did my best to live by their rules. That was out of respect for them and for my own safety.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Why the fuck is what people say on the View "news?"

Jesus fucking Christ.

[CatWoman]

4. on a pogo stick!!!!

:hi:

[Link93]

8. It's right up there with Meet the Press in my book.

:sarcasm:

[qnr]

74. Probably because it's a show that millions watch, and the OP was giving

a heads up to those of us that don't watch it, or TV period. I don't think it's "news" either, but at least I won't be blindsided if someone asks about it.

[AlCzervik]

5. this is a dupe which i'm sure will turn into a flamefest.

the "View" isn't news imo.

[partylessinOhio]

6. When WaWa throws Whoopi to the wolves it will be big news.

It will happen sooner than later.

[zabet]

7. She needs to stick to comedy..

"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg.
:wtf:
I do not know of anywhere where dogfighting is
anything more than a crime. Not an accepted normality of culture. :eyes:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. Still legal in Oklahoma. Even though OK is pretty backwards.

It's an extension of the Third World Third Coast as I call it. Texas to Florida and some states north of there.

[idgiehkt]

48. No, not legal in OK

As of 2007, dog fighting is a felony in 48 states and a misdemeanor in Idaho and Wyoming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfighting
I don't think cock-fighting is legal in any states either


a bust in OK
http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/press_releases/the_hsus_praises_oklahoma_law_enforcement_officials_for_dog_fighting_bust.html

[ESS]

9. By her logic...

"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg.
"There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of our country."

By her logic it is perfectly acceptable to be a bigot, racist, anti-semite, rapist, pedophile, murderer, as long as it is indicative to your particular part of the world. Maybe those Catholic Priests should try this logic...you know..."sexual relations with minor boys is indicative of our profession"...And isn't this a perfect thing for George W. and his gang to say...if they could define and pronounce the word indicative.

[poverlay]

13. No where that I read did Ms. Goldberg state that it was "perfectly acceptable". You're smearing her

unjustly.

I think she should be applauded for drawing attention to the real problem: The culture of an area that not only allows, but encourages such horrific things.

We should be taking the fight to the cause of the problem. Not dealing with that makes fixing the symptom(Vick), an exciting excercise in futility.

[PurpleChez]

27. you may be right, at least insofar as that she DIDN'T say "perfectly acceptible"

BUT...what she DID say—"this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from"—sure as heck sounds like an attempt to excuse or justify, or at least to normalize, Vick's abhorent behavior. I sure as shit ain't gonna be applauding miss whoopie for this one.

[PurpleChez]

25. My background is about seven-eights German

My people like to hold torchlight parades and...well...commit various crimes against humanity. What can I perhaps justify as being "not an unsual thing" where we come from?

[poverlay]

10. Hey, we're all here because we value context. Ms. Goldberg just provided some very good context.

No where in that article did Ms. Goldberg express support for Mr. Vick, only understanding. Those here who want to rush to judgment, lump her in with him, and instantly condemn her, should go hang out at that website that specializes in such things. What's it called? Oh yeah, Free Republic!

[idgiehkt]

29. I disagree. Vick is from Newport News.

Someone needs to buy her a clue:
"She said if the case had involved somebody from New York City her feelings would have been different."

There is no context or logic in that whatsoever. Dogs are fought in the inner cities as much or more as in coastal VA. For instance, if you watch the animal planet shows, Animal Cops Detroit and Animal Precinct (filmed in New York City) deal with dog-fighting busts much more than Animal Cops: Houston, which deals with many more cases of neglected farm animals.

It's irrelevant anyway as being involved in this violated Vick's NFL contract because of the illegal gambling aspect. He signed that contract, so he knew it was wrong to be involved in it regardless of the surroundings he grew up in.

You know, there is a reason they don't hold dog fights on the town square on saturday afternoon. It's because it's illegal and the people that do it know this better than anyone.

[David__77]

11. I don't care, I love Whoopi, and always will!

Did you know that she originally was going to call herself "Whoopi Cushion" as her comedy name? I just learned that about her... Whoopi is great. I really don't know about this Vick thing, but I don't agree with her from what I've heard. Nonetheless, she's a good progressive.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. There is a difference between explaining and defending.

And the fact that it is a criminal offense almost everywhere, doesn't mean it is rare, i.e. 'unusual'. There have been two dogfighting rings busted around here in the past year. And dogs that have survived this treatment show up in shelters on a regular basis. So, no, it is not an unusual thing.

Doesn't mean it's good. Just that it exists. And people raised around it don't see it as wrong any more than bullfighting is seen as wrong in Spain (though that, too, is finally changing).

[tularetom]

14. There are parts of our country where stringing up black people

was not an unusual thing. Does this mean that was OK to Ms Goldberg?

[Raine]

40. That's what I was thinking too

I'd like to see her response on that.

[iamthebandfanman]

15. yeah i tuned in to watch

and was shocked to hear her defend such sick actions.
i dont care what your culture is. we have laws. follow them or face the consequence. especially when its something so sick.
anybody who does that to an animal can do it to a person.

i turned the channel directly afterwards.

[Buns_of_Fire]

16. Far be it for me to abandon my traditional role of pouring gas on a fire...

...but before this devolves into a North-South flame war, HERE is another link that has some reasonable (nay, even trenchant!) comments.

(...mumbling to himself, "...blessed be the peacemakers...".......)

[MessiahRp]

17. I have yet to figure out the whole, "this is okay because of his race" thing.

Jamie Foxx said it, Clinton Portis said it, Whoopi's saying it, the NAACP said it. This is so wrong on so many levels. If a white redneck were to have committed this crime it would be no less appalling.

What these people are doing is using his race and upbringing to absolve him from the ability to discern right and wrong. I think that's sad and completely irresponsible. What kind of message does that send to black youth? "Hey Michael Vick was black so it's okay for him to murder dogs. What people universally think is bad and wrong, you can do because you're black!"

This shouldn't be a racial thing at all. This should be clearly on it's face an issue between right or wrong and without a doubt in any rational person's mind, one that understands the laws of our country, there really is no need to debate this.

Just as there is no defense for a rapist, a child abuser or a murderer, there is no defense for an animal murderer.

The guy is a criminal and that's the end of it. Members of the black community that come out to defend him and use the "it's okay because he's black" defense do their cause no favors for more serious issues down the road.

Rp

[PurpleChez]

30. I agree with you 100%

I remember a few months back, during the brouhaha surrounding the Don Imus situation. The conversation grew to include discussion of disparaging language in rap lyrics. Now, whether or not I agree, I understand that "nigger" is a special case, perhaps unique, with all sorts of history and layers of meaning attached to it. But people here at DU were posting that we also must not criticize rappers for calling women hos (or is it "hoz"?) and bitches (bitchez), because that's what "they" hear growing up. I'm sorry...we all "hear stuff growning up" that we learn by the time we're 14 isn't appropriate for normal conversation. I know it's gonna make me sound like some sort of redneck rethug reationary, but I'm tired of "the 'Hood" being invoked as the catch-all explanation for any antisocial act that comes to mind.

[gratuitous]

18. Yeah, but here's the thing . . .

Whether or not dog fighting is customary or part of a culture, it's clearly against the law everywhere in the United States. See, that's why it's done in secret. So, whether Vick is just being a product of his environment or not, he put his career and a heueueuege contract in jeopardy just to watch one dog kill another. My understanding is that he wasn't betting on the fights and wasn't taking a cut of any purses, so he didn't even have the bad excuse of having a financial interest.

Now, I don't know what background encourages this sort of behavior, certainly none I've ever encountered.

[PurpleChez]

31. Yeah...i'd be ashamed to suggest

that my culture justified, excused, or even simply explained this sort of conduct. It's an insult to the other 99.997% of African Americans who don't think that keepin' it real involves torturing and executing dogs.

[idgiehkt]

54. "he put his career and a heueueuege contract in jeopardy just to watch one dog kill another."

That is the most lucid statement I've seen on this whole affair. I may quote you. That is the point. If Vick can read, then he knew this was in violation of his contract, regardless of legality. It was the contract that promised him tens of millions of dollars...it seems to me that the man thought he was untouchable. That is what my dad, who played high school football, thinks, and it makes sense to me. Been treated like a golden God since college, begin to think you are invincible.

[PurpleChez]

19. I had been so pleased that I hadn't heard anybody try to defend Vick

by saying that torturing dogs was "part of his culture." I thought that maybe what Vick did was just so heinous that no one would try to defend it based on "culture" or "the 'Hood" or "it's what 'they' see/hear growing up." Murdering and torturing animals is absolutely unacceptable in the united states, regardless of whatever "culture" you grow up in. Congratulations, Whoopie...you've made yourself irrelevant.

[mslawstudent]

21. Being human encourages this sort of behavior

That's why its so disgusting. Its a throwback to everything we've learned not to do, slavery, gladiator fights, etc. Its forgetting empathy and numbing yourself against the pain of others. It doesn't matter how prevelant or not dogfighting is, it needs to stop.

Murdering a dog isn't the bad part of it to most people, its the inflicting pain needlessly for entertainment.

[RiverStone]

23. Her comments are 100% B.S.

I like Goldberg in the movies - but she sure missed the boat on this one.

I also grew up in the South (North Carolina and Georgia).

It is not and was not part of any ACCEPTABLE culture I knew there. Whoopi, slavery was part of the South's culture at one time too. Just because a few idiot/coward/kooks get their rocks off on torturing dogs and watching them die a terrible death --- does not make that inbreed behavior part of southern culture!

Grits, fireflies, thunderstorms, hospitality - that's what I remember.

Vick is a low life prick who never deserves to wear an NFL uniform again! Shame on Whoopi for coming up with a very lame defense of the man.

No defense exists for his actions.

[chefgirl]

24. Talk about distortion!!

Shame on Whoopi for coming up with a very lame defense of the man.

No defense exists for his actions.


Problem is, she was NOT defending him or his actions. In fact, she made a point of saying exactly that, once or twice.

The point she was trying to make was that she could understand why Michael Vick didn't 'get' why so many people found it so abhorent. She made the point that it was a part of his 'cultural upbringing'. (whether or not she was correct about that is a seperate argument)

She also went on to say that she was glad to see that Vick finally did seem to 'get' it and understand why it was such a horrible thing to do.

Who needs RW media with our side doing such a wonderful job of spinning peoples' words??

-chef-

[CatWoman]

34. right on, Chef!!

:hi:

[chefgirl]

44. Hey CatWoman!

Long time no see! :hi:

-chef-

[RiverStone]

37. nothing distorted with my hearing

...she could understand why Michael Vick didn't 'get' why so many people found it so abhorent.

Now that's a distortion. Vick got it, he just did not give a damn or held out an ounce of compassion for the dogs that were tortured and killed by an illegal dog fighting operation that he funded. Her "understanding" alone suggests an enabling attitude.

With all due respect chefgirl - there is no perspective, cultural upbringing, or understanding needed for Vick at all.

Nothing to spin here. I don't work for the MSM...

peace~ :)

[chefgirl]

39. Apparently, there is

Vick got it, he just did not give a damn

I won't argue about whether or not Vick 'got it'. Once again you're spinning.

All I did was give an accurate representation of what Whoppi said, not the veracity of the point she made.

Maybe he DID get it, WTF knows??

-chef-

[PurpleChez]

63. 'Her "understanding" alone suggests an enabling attitude'

THAT is perhaps the most lucid comment I've heard in this entire thread. She may not have been "defending" Vick, but she WAS trying to portray Vick's actions as somehow more normal than most of us are inclined to believe. As other posters have already suggested, we certainly would not be so generous with our "understanding" if similar "explanations" were put forth about pedophile priests or the perpetrators of lynchings.

No, you are NOT spinning.

[PurpleChez]

38. "she was glad to see that Vick finally did seem to 'get' it" -- that, too, is bullshit

If Whoopie -- or anybody reading her comments -- believes that Vick has experienced some spiritual revelation I've got swampland in florida I'd love to sell you. Vick is feigning remorse only because he got caught. If he hadn't been caught he and the other members of the Bad Newz posse (or krew or entourage or whatever) would still be wetting down dogs and electrocuting them. There is no more sincerity in Vick than in some rethug who gets caught with a hooker and suddenly redidicates his life to Jesus. I can't believe that Whoopie, or anybody else, would get suckered into this.

[chefgirl]

42. Again,

Vick is feigning remorse only because he got caught.

Again, that may or may not be true, but the fact remains, she was NOT defending what he did.

-chef-

[PurpleChez]

59. I agree, with reservations....

She may not have been defending Vick, but I would certainly argue that she was trying to paint his actions as somehow being more "normal" that most people believe them to be. And that is still troublesome.

[chefgirl]

64. I still think you might have misinterpreted her remarks

In all honesty, I don't think she was trying to paint his actions as 'more normal' than most people believe them to be.

What she was trying to convey was why she thinks 'Michael Vick' felt his actions were normal or acceptable.

-chef-

[PurpleChez]

71. I read the original quote and I just don't see that.

[PurpleChez]

33. Grits, fireflies, thunderstorms, hospitality....

you forgot Sweet Tea. When I moved to GA almost ten years ago there were a number of negative southern stereotypes that came to life for me up there in the hills of Habersham County, but also some very positive ones as well. The reality of southern hospitality was very welcoming. I also like the tradition of calling people "Miss First Name" and "Mr. First Name", because it is at once familiar and respectful. It's almost like an honor--rather than an obligation--that you get to call so-and-so MISS So-and-So.

But coming to a full stop on the highway when passing a funeral procession is a tradition I could do without. Fine for those small town streets, but not on a divided highway.

[Supersedeas]

26. one of those blame the South thangs?

[MonkeyFunk]

28. I don't see where she's defending him.

She's exlaining something.

[idgiehkt]

35. I don't care for it

"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from."

The same could be said about Bush getting out of Vietnam, about Laura and Jenna acting like drunken sods publicly, about Linday Lohan running over that kid's leg and pursuing those other people in a high speed chase (her father is an addict/alcoholic). The only valid statement that one could make in regards to this is that minorities get tougher sentences in this country for the same crimes that whites do, and even that needs to be backed up with statistics...people need to stop excusing Vick and devoting their energies to the argument whether the sentencing will be fair and why or why not. I don't believe that what Goldberg is saying is statistically accurate, and I don't think it should be taken at face value. Interestingly I just read she was born in New York City, so it's probably human nature for her to think dog-fighting happens 'somewhere else'. Everyone thinks dog-fighting happens somewhere else.

[PurpleChez]

36. "this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from"

may not be a defense, but it sure sounds like the start of a justification to me.

[MonkeyFunk]

41. well

nowhere does she say he shouldn't be prosecuted, or that what he did was OK. I just don't see a defense.

[PurpleChez]

56. and I can respect that, but I also agree with another poster

in that I suspect we would all be much less generous if we heard similar "explanations" being used in reference to other situations, such as pedophile priests.

[Toucano]

46. Exactly. Adding additional information based on HER experience

and understanding is not defending him.

What a fucked up country!

[idgiehkt]

53. number one, it's not her experience, and number two, she didn't back up her statement

it's speculation. It's not her experience because she grew up in New York, and her statement leads me to believe she has no experience with dog-fighting. If she'd said "my relatives in Newport News fought dogs in the back yard every summer when I went to visit, but I never saw that in New York" it would be a different story. She's never seen it in either place apparently although it occurs in both places. She needs to just express her concern and empathy for Vick and stop making misleading statements.

[Toucano]

57. Of course it's her experience.

Where she grew up is irrelevant. Her experience (ie travel, friends, relatives) in the Southern United States exposed her to a sub-culture that created the impression that dog-fighting is NOT SO UNCOMMON. There's no requirement that she list those experiences.

It's a fucking daytime CHAT show. She's not required to "back up her statement" or provide a LINK for the love of GOD. Whenever anyone speaks without citing a source, it's implied that what they're saying is based on their experience. Whether their conclusion is CORRECT or not isn't the point. Good people can be wrong, as she clearly is.

Misleading statement? Only to anyone who thinks all people on TV are almanacs or encyclopedias.

At any rate, nothing she said justifies the vitriol and MISREPRESENTATION of her statement being perpetuated in the media. Certain DU members are still swallowing the MSM shit, despite saying they despise it.

[idgiehkt]

61. I did not find that in the linked article

"Her experience (ie travel, friends, relatives) in the Southern United States exposed her to a sub-culture that created the impression that dog-fighting is NOT SO UNCOMMON."

I didn't watch the show, so I don't know if she is basing this on her travel, relatives, whatever, or if she's just heard that dogs are fought more down south than up north. I don't believe that it is true.

This is the closest I got to what you are saying, from the article:
"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg.

I don't think where she grew up is irrelevant at all. She spent the first part of her youth in a housing project where probably no dogs were allowed. Back then dog-fighting was probably not as common in the inner cities, now it is. It is now everywhere. I think if you are going to try to pour calumney on the commission of a crime this gruesome, you should at least be factual about your defense of it. Has anyone found out whether Vick himself was even exposed to dog-fighting, as part of his 'cultural experience' before he got rich and decided to follow the growing trend and open a dog-fighting kennel? That's a presumption everyone is making but I haven't seen him quoted anywhere as saying something like "where I grew up, it was on every corner". Maybe it wasn't...maybe he just followed in the footsteps of rich acquaintances he met through football and other associations.

[Toucano]

68. It isn't in the linked article. That's the POINT!

If two people, say you and I, are sitting in a restaurant discussing Michael Vick and I said, "From his background, it's not so uncommon," would you ask me for a LINKED ARTICLE? Probably not. It's a CHAT show!! The people are CHATTING.

If it were just you and I, as in the above scenario, you might ask me a follow up question, such as, "Why do you think that?" or "What do you mean?" Then I might elaborate. If you didn't ask a follow up question, you could wisely and safely assume that something in my EXPERIENCE lead me to my opinion (a book, a magazine, a trip I took, someone I talked to, etc.) That's the nature of conversation.

People who aren't stark raving lunatics form ideas and opinions BASED ON THEIR EXPERIENCES. Those ideas and opinions can be accurate or inaccurate. For the record, I find her idea about Michael Vick to be inaccurate, and if pressed to, I could probably find statistics on arrests that would demonstrate that. I, however, could be wrong.

On the CHAT SHOW, no one asked a follow-up question. Knowing Goldberg is not a lunatic, we can safely assume she spoke based on some (erroneous though it may be) experience of her own, for no other reason than that's what people do. Providing links or backing up ideas with statistics is not something people do when they're away from computers or libraries. Again, that's the nature of discourse.

The problem is that a media outlet wrote the headline GOLDBERG DEFENDS VICK and a lot of people are swallowing it without thinking about whether it was actually true or not.

Thanks for your patience, but may I offer one more analogy?

Let's say that you and I are bored one afternoon and talking about Lindsay Lohan being arrested with cocaine. I might say, "At those Hollywood night clubs, cocaine use is not so uncommon."

Am I actually saying it's ACCEPTABLE or defending her use of cocaine? Obviously not. It might be true, it might not be true. But it would be an idea I might have based on my experience - which could be any number of sources. In fact, it might be expressing more of an indictment against a sub-culture that uses narcotics.

[idgiehkt]

73. using all caps like that is distracting, even if it isn't every word

It makes it harder to read and understand, not easier.

I haven't read anywhere that even her simple statement has truth to it. I haven't read quotes from Vick saying that dog-fighting was part of his specific childhood background or culture. It seems to be becoming part of the culture of very wealthy men, like canned hunts. If she's going to try to pour calumney on this it should be accurate. As to your first point I wouldn't ask you for a linked article; I would ask you 'oh, was he exposed to this in childhood, before he became a star football player'? It wouldn't sway my opinion on the 'degree' of his guilt, which I think is really what motivates this kind of statement...but I would definitely like to know if Vick has said that he was surrounded by dog-fighting growing up. Otherwise it is speculation and reaching.

[mitchum]

43. By that, did she mean Virginia or da hood?

[Toucano]

49. GOD! Where's the dumper thread gone? n/t

[depakid]

50. Exactly HOW is this defending him?

Sometimes DU'ers knee jerk reactions to things surprise even me....

[AZBlue]

52. Yeah, well cross-burning and white hoods are indicative to certain parts too.

That doesn't make them ok. They are both reprehensible and indefensible.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard anyone say.

[Toucano]

58. She didn't say it made it okay. n/t

[AZBlue]

62. She did.

She may not have used the word "okay" in her comments, but she explained it, excused it, defended it. That's the same thing as "okay."

[Toucano]

65. Whaa? Explain = Defend = Excuse = Okay?

OMG!

So if I EXPLAIN the Crusades to someone, I'm DEFENDING them? Excusing them? Saying they're okay?

I speak three languages and in every one of them EXPLAIN, DEFEND, and EXCUSE are different words from each other. I'm gonna guess that's because they MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS!

Sad.

[AZBlue]

66. If you spoke three languages you'd realize that words have different meanings and connotations.

That's all I have to say - I won't stoop to your level and be rude, nor will I respond to another rude remark.

[Toucano]

70. I wasn't trying to be rude. But honestly - you actually said

To explain
To defend
To excuse

are all the same thing.

Maybe you meant to say something different, but c'mon! It came out sounding pretty stupid, didn't it? A statement that dumb is bound to invite a bit of snark.

Besides, despite your pledge to the contrary, you still managed to respond with a rude remark by implying that I'm somehow lying about having three languages. As if I would care. :crazy:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

72. Explain it in English.

:shrug:

[ikojo]

60. So, Whoopi, some people come from areas of the

country where it is acceptable to be a racist...would you defend them?

How stupid!

In parts of Africa it's a cultural thing to "circumcise" young women...doesn't make it right in western society.

[Kajsa]

69. To quote Whoopi,

"This is a kid who comes from a culture where this is not questioned."

If that's the case,( I doubt it) I hope they question it now.

[idgiehkt]

75. I believe she has genuine empathy for his plight

but he is not a 'kid' but an successful multi-millionaire and in all of north america dog-fighting is a crime. Dog-fighters know this better than anyone else. This defense is insulting to Vick, that is what they fail to recognize

[Kajsa]

76. You are so right, Idgie.

He knew what he was doing.

Yes, she is sincere with her empathy.

It may explain this crime, but
it doesn't excuse it.

[idgiehkt]

78. I think statements like hers are a kind of coping mechanism

I would call it 'denial' although some will probably take issue with that. People do not want to see Vick as sadistic, for whatever reason. The fact is that he was sadistic to these animals, and no cultural references can explain that away without insulting Vick. I mean, a psychologist could probably analyze what growing up around brutality to animals can do to the psyche of a child, but to me that is something that should be pulled out of the DSM, instead of insulting a whole culture by saying people don't 'know better'.

[Kajsa]

80. Agreed!

I couldn't have said it better.

;-)

:hi:

[Catchawave]

77. I'm from that 'certain part of our country'

It's just a pit bull bloodbath down here :eyes:

[Kajsa]

79. That's what I thought, Catchawave.

( got the sarcasm ;-))

That's all Southerners need right now,

more friggin, negative stereotyping!

;(