OK, nevermind

[RB TexLa]

[Starbucks Anarchist]

1. And... go!

:popcorn:

[BattyDem]

6. You got it!

:popcorn:

[OhioChick]

2. Or Over-Eating? n/t

[razors edge]

3. About as much as

if we paid for no treatment necessitated by obesity.

[bluestateguy]

4. I got it: Just let all the sick people die!

Why didn't I think of that?

[RB TexLa]

5. .

[azurnoir]

10. So healthy people are immortal? LOL n/t

[azurnoir]

7. Along with the money saving stats

lets get some on how much smokers pay in taxes to both and federal governments, so drop those and then we'll talk. Oh yes lets not forget the smoking lawsuit settlements those also came out of the pockets of smkers

[RB TexLa]

8. .

[azurnoir]

15. Exactly you are profiting from

others addiction, why not just deal heroin cut out the middle man.

[RB TexLa]

17. .

[azurnoir]

25. If your a smoker

this is a weird thread are you feeling ornery?

[ISUGRADIA]

9. Ya get lung cancer

*buzz* cut it out yourself. Yeah, that will work. So insurance does not pay, what do we do, let people just die?

[RB TexLa]

11. .

[Cerridwen]

12. 1st hand or 2nd hand? We could keep the kids off whose parents

smoke and the spouses (SOs) of those who smoke and those who work around cigarette smoke; take Vegas casinos completely out of the mix.

Oh, and speaking of kids, I hear pregnancy and child-birth are extremely dangerous so we could exclude them, too.

Anyone who drives over the speed-limit, ever. Let's not forget those who live with stress of any kind; that causes all kinds of health problems.

I'm sure we'll get many other fine examples in this thread, as well.

Just in case I guess I'll add this :sarcasm: and this :popcorn:

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Hey we could exclude sick people!

Oh wait, we already do that.

Uh no thanks on your wonderful idea. Quite frankly it is evil.

[Cleita]

20. Yes, the insurance companies do already do that, which is

why we have a healthcare crisis to begin with.

[baldguy]

14. Or injuries suffered in car accidents

If they weren't wearing their seatbelt, or speeding, or making an illegal turn, following to close, didn't yield the right-of-way...

[Deja Q]

16. How about a compromise; have a person get more benefits as they prove they are improving themselves?

That way one can still start with coverage, but if they don't shape up or improve from their base point, they'd lose?

We all have to do our part, but there are plenty of reasons WHY people engage in self-destructive patterns in the first place. Typically depression due to ambient stress... Oh, since stress is a big reason why people get and can't eliminate BELLY FAT, maybe our society has to do something to help reduce stress?

[Warren Stupidity]

26. You are actually serious.

What a joke. Perhaps we could fund another huge bloated federal agency: The Department of Health Security, to patrol our lifestyles?

[lynne]

18. How about alcohol use?? We could exclude both alcohol related disease & accidents -

- a DOUBLE PLAY!!! :bounce:

[Cleita]

19. No one should be denied health care even if they are

responsible for their illness. That isn't liberal nor compassionate. I suppose next we should deny coverage for people who get sick from toxins in their environment because they chose to live near a toxic dump or lake. Where does it stop?

[whistle]

21. How about no health care costs for sexual related illnesses

[Colorado Progressive]

30. Quick way to get rid of humans! nt

[whistle]

33. Exactly, humans get sick amd need heathcare but the right wing is always

...trying to find ways for blaming illnesses on the person. Always! Then the logical next step by RW is to not pay for the health care of humans who get those illnesses. :wtf:

[backscatter712]

22. It might save money, but it would be very, very cruel.

Emphysema and lung cancer are horrible diseases. To tell someone suffering from them "Sorry, you're SOL, because you smoked and brought it upon yourself." would be inhuman.

[Double T]

23. Great. Then they can refuse treatment to alcohol drinkers, sports enthusiastes,.......

race car drivers, construction workers, miners, popcorn factory workers, or anyone else that puts themselves in a hazardous or dangerous environment, situation or workplace.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Really? How you going to do that?

"I will never file a health insurance claim for something related to my smoking"

that is ridiculous. How are you going to pay for lung cancer surgery? How are you going to pay for anything if you get disabled with emphysema? I simply don't believe you on this, talk is cheap, internet chat is even cheaper.

Your idea is hideous. Single payer systems reduce overall healthcare costs right off the bat by eliminating the rent extraction from the insurance industry. Simply requiring everyone who is working and their employers to pay in will provide adequate funding for a healthcare system just as good as the currently far superior ones found in other major industrialized democracies.

[RB TexLa]

27. .

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Until proven otherwise I consider your promise bullshit.

I'm sure you intend to not get treated for lung cancer, I just don't believe you will carry through with it.

[treestar]

29. Not enough proof of linkage

Some people get lung cancer without smoking.

Granted we know it's not good for someone, but the bureaucracy will not be able to handle the determination on whether the person smoked enough for the exclusion.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

36. Yes they do.

Beverly Sills, famous opera singer, died of lung cancer and obviously never smoked.

Dana Reeve, widow of Christopher Reeve, died of lung cancer due to secondhand smoke from being a nightclub singer. Not from smoking.

People can get emphysema and die from that too, without ever smoking.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

31. Then your insurer will never cover your costs again

Because they can and will rule that any condition you suffer from is aggravated by smoking, and refuse to pay.

[Colorado Progressive]

32. I think the last thing we need is MORE pre-existing conditions/exclusions

I think most Americans have a vice of some sort that causes health problems. For instance, sitting in a cat 5 hurricane saying "Jesus will protect me". (that quote was actually from someone riding out Felix (edit)but it applies to many Americans too.)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Smokers die earlier and use less long term nursing care

That more than offsets the cost of their illnesses. If people adopted healthier lifestyles en masse, it might actually cost more in the long run, that's why I don't necessarily support the argument that we should have universal health care because it will save money. I think we should have it because it is the moral thing to do for our citizens.

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. So a kid who lives in the L.A. basin gets lung cancer...

Who's gonna say whether the kid got cancer from firsthand cigarette smoke, secondhand, or air pollution?

What a hoot your suggestion is!

[ChromeFoundry]

37. All this would do is increase profits

for the insurers... United Health Care posted their largest profits in their history last year. I had this insurance, and my groups costs increased January 1st.

This is a ridiculous idea, that because a corporation is saving money it would be passed on to you, the consumer. They'll fuck you every which way to Sunday if it means larger profits to them.

Oil, Pharmicudicals and Insurance all operate in this manner.

[Lars39]

38. You expect a pat on the back for denying people health care?

[valerief]

39. Let's just get rid of the docs and nurses. We can use monkeys instead.

That's what the chimperor would really like.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Ok this is perhaps the worst case of editing one's own posts

that I have ever seen.

RGBolen, for the record, proposed that in his version of single payer universal healthcare smokers would be denied coverage in order to save money.

[LeftishBrit]

41. I strongly disagree with that

Tax cigarettes and put the tax into the health service; but I am strongly against the government using something like health care to reward or punish people's lifestyles.

Health care isn't a privilege that you have to earn; it's a right.

And as someone said upthread, people with healthy lifestyles may cost the systen just as much in the end, as they are more likely to live to be very old.