Whoopi defends Michael Vick

[Wiregrass Willie]

Whoopi Goldberg decided to defend Michael Vick for his dogfighting. And what logic did she use to defend him? "There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of our country ...this is part of his cultural upbringing."


http://mediatory.rul.tvsquad.com/2007/09/04/whoopi-debuts-on-the-view-defends-michael-vick/

I am an 8th generation Georgian. I was born in the South, raised in the South, worked in the South and retired in the South.

Once as a little boy in the 1950s, I was visiting my grandparents in rural Georgia. I was told that some low life white trash (my grandfather's description) had held a dog fight in a neighbors barn. From that day until I heard of Michael Vick and his dog exploits, I had never heard anybody mention or speak of dog fights. I had assumed that it was a tawdry part of rural America that had died a quiet death in the 1950s.

I must ad the caveat that I am not up to speed on the traditions and customs of the barrios and the inner cities. But other than that, I can say that dog fighting is NOT a part of southern culture.

I liked Whoopi, up until today.

[Taverner]

1. I keep saying this, she wasn't defending him

She was providing context and the media translated that into defense.

[Wiregrass Willie]

4. Her "context" makes her either a fool or a liar n/t

[Taverner]

6. What? You're saying there aren't dogfights in the rural south - ever?

Because of your andectotal experience?

[Wiregrass Willie]

14. I'm saying it's not a part of the culture

And if it has happened in the past 50 years, I have not heard of it. And I have friends and relatives across the southern cultural spectrum.

[Taverner]

16. That's hardly a statistical sample

[renie408]

24. I would be willing to bet a whole lot of money

on the fact that dogfighting is not culturally endemic in the southeast. I have lived in the deep South my whole life and have never heard of anyone fighting dogs. I have asked everybody I know and some people I don't about it and the best I can get are rumors on the order of somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who does it. I am NOT saying it doesn't happen, I am just saying that this perception that dogfighting is a southern tradition occurring on a regular basis across the South is erroneous.

[Taverner]

30. Are you white or are you black?

These are two parallel cultures in the South...

[renie408]

34. I am white...And where do you live?

The neighbors who live behind us, across from us and next to us are black. They don't know anybody that fights dogs. One of my closest friends is black and he doesn't know anybody that fights dogs. Dogfighting might be prevalent in small pockets, but it isn't a broad based cultural 'thing' down here for either race.

Actually, the only dogfighting that anybody I know said that they had heard of was in URBAN areas and involved gangs. And that was more of a 'my cousin Eddie has a friend who knows somebody who is in a gang and they fight dogs' king of thing.

What I would like to know is where you live?

[emilyg]

12. Yes.

[cali]

9. Here's some context for you: Joe Blow sets a cross on fire

on the lawn of a black family while dressed in full KKK paraphanelia. Sam Celebrity says on TV that the context is the culture and history of the South.

[rudeboy666]

10. Bad argument

Not only are the cases categorically different but your attempted analogy misrepresents the attempted EXPLANATION on the part of Ms. Goldberg (now, whether her explanation works is another matter).

For instance, explaining the context that breeds murderers (e.g. the 9-11 terrorists) does not automatically imply advocacy.

[Taverner]

11. No context would be the KKK started up after the Civil War By angry Confederate Soldiers

And actually died out, only to resurface by two ad execs from Indiana.

[republicansarewhores]

33. Well damn...

Lynchings used to be a tradition in the deep South also. Is Whoopi gonna give the same leeway?

No longer a Whoopi fan. Bring back Rosie.

RAW

[AlCzervik]

2. Dupe, at least 4,000 threads on this already.

[Connie_Corleone]

3. Deja Vu? Wasn't this discussed yesterday?

Some people heard of dog fights, some people haven't.

It's called life experience. And, I still like Whoopi.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. You defend the prosecution of the Jena 6.

So why should I take you seriously speaking out against dog fighting when you support white supremacy?

[Wiregrass Willie]

18. I don't support white supremacy

But I do support imprisoning anybody that physically attacks and harms a fellow citizen. Do we want a nation of laws or of outlaws ?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. I don't believe you.

I don't think anybody else believes you either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1695393#1696091

[coco77]

20. For 22 years?

[renie408]

23. Yeah, that was extreme.

You can't go around beating the shit out of people, but a 22 year sentence seemed stiff to me.

[Wiregrass Willie]

25. I may could agree with you about the sentence.

But that is not what you were arguing. Yo were wanting to free them and apologize to them.

[renie408]

35. I was not arguing with anybody. You have me confused with another poster. n/t

[Wiregrass Willie]

37. You're right. And I apologize.

I only realized that after I had posted it.

But to expand on what I said, I agree that 22 years is a lot for assault and battery. I would suggest a sentence of about five years -- of which the perp would probably serve no more than two.

[ecstatic]

7. No dogfights, but surely riots, lynchings, and assassinations of humans nt

[bullimiami]

8. what keeps getting lost is the fact that its a crime.

dogfighting is a crime, soliciting prostitution is a crime, cruising for gay sex in a public bathroom is a crime, lying to congress-starting a war-torture. crime crime crime.

im full up sick of discussing the morality. are we a country of laws or are the laws only for whoever isnt powerful or popular enough to get away with it?

vick, vitter, craig, bushcheneyrumsfeldgonzales. All need to be prosecuted for the crimes they have committed just as any poor bastard who gets caught with crack or stealing does.

I hate the democrats in congress for not being offended that the white house has turned into a den of gangsters and for not knowing the right thing to do is enforce the laws and prosecute crimes.

[gatorboy]

17. Who the hell let Logical Man in????

Get outta here with yer...Yer logicness! We'll have none of that here!

[Toucano]

13. Maybe Whoopi listens to NPR

where she might have heard on July 20, 2007:

"Vick's case is shining a spotlight on a bloody industry that is thriving in urban areas and the rural South — despite being outlawed in all 50 states."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12104472

Perhaps her statement was influenced by information she received.

Dog fighting takes place in the South. The north. Cities & Rural areas.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Whoopi said. An explanation is not an excuse, nor was it a criticism of Southern Culture.

[fedupfisherman]

15. Wow............

So is chicken fighting a part of his upbringing too?

[Kahuna]

21. She did not defend him. She tried to explain that among certain

groups, this sort of thing is done. And she is right. She is only guilty of doing a poor job of making her point.

I'll clear it up right now. I'm a black person from the hood. And a lot of young brothers with pit bulls DO fight their dogs. Now, Vick took it to another level with the organization and betting. But a lot of young brothers do fight their dogs.

[renie408]

22. I think the problem is...

that dogfighting is being portrayed like it occurs on every street corner south of the Mason-Dixon line. At least that is the perception I get when I hear people saying, "Oh, dogfighting is a Southern cultural thing." I was born and raised in a part of the South a helluva sight deeper than Michael Vick and I have never heard of anybody fighting dogs. Not one person I have asked about it knows for certain about dogfighting.

[Kahuna]

27. Whoopie didn't explain it well. I think that she did err in blaming it

on the "southern" culture vs. a "ghetto" culture which is where the blame truly belongs. I know for a fact that ghetto youth fight their pits and rotweilers. And knowing that as a fact does not mean I'm CONDONING it. Sheesh. (not sheesh to you)

[renie408]

36. Yes!! The only dogfighting I have heard rumors of were in an urban area and

involved 'gangs'. At least that is what one of my neighbor's told me. But that happens even in the northeast, right?

[Wiregrass Willie]

26. I hate to say this, but I may owe you folks an apology

When I read this article this morning, I was reading "Whoopi" but I was thinking "Oprah". I have been a long time fan of Oprah's and was disappointed when I thought she was supporting Vick and maligning the South.

I now realize we are talking about Whoopi Goldberg, who I have never cared anything about, anyway.

Please pardon my error.

(I know ! I know ! Never admit you were wrong )

Willie

[Kahuna]

28. Whatever. I'll jump over ten Oprah to get to one Whoopi...

I love me some Whoopi. She's the real deal.

[Karenina]

29. "you folks?"

Can somebody open up a window, let some air into this room?

[Wiregrass Willie]

32. I suppose I should have said "youse guys" n/t

[Raejeanowl]

31. I Don't Think She Was Defending Him, Per Se

I will concede the credit to her usual great common sense at the end of the day if it proves wrong.

But it did bother me that she was looking for mitigating factors. What I heard was, consider Vick's roots, and this will explain how it might have seemed different, more acceptable to him. Valid argument? Beats the hell out of me.

Conversely, my other thought was, well, if people came from racist backgrounds in the south, do we use that in defense of their hate crimes? My daddy and granddaddy were KKK, therefore, I can't help myself?

Is this the "He Didn't Know Any Better" defense?