What The Hell Is Going On?-Staging Nukes For Iran? By Larry Johnson (Updated)

[kpete]

Staging Nukes for Iran?
By Larry Johnson on Sep 5, 2007 in Current Affairs

Why the hubbub over a B-52 taking off from a B-52 base in Minot, North Dakota and subsequently landing at a B-52 base in Barksdale, Louisiana? That’s like getting excited if you see a postal worker in uniform walking out of a post office. And how does someone watching a B-52 land identify the cruise missiles as nukes? It just does not make sense.

So I called a old friend and retired B-52 pilot and asked him. What he told me offers one compelling case of circumstantial evidence. My buddy, let’s call him Jack D. Ripper, reminded me that the only times you put weapons on a plane is when they are on alert or if you are tasked to move the weapons to a specific site.

Then he told me something I had not heard before.

Barksdale Air Force Base is being used as a jumping off point for Middle East operations. Gee, why would we want cruise missile nukes at Barksdale Air Force Base. Can’t imagine we would need to use them in Iraq. Why would we want to preposition nuclear weapons at a base conducting Middle East operations?

His final point was to observe that someone on the inside obviously leaked the info that the planes were carrying nukes. A B-52 landing at Barksdale is a non-event. A B-52 landing with nukes. That is something else.

Now maybe there is an innocent explanation for this? I can’t think of one. What is certain is that the pilots of this plane did not just make a last minute decision to strap on some nukes and take them for a joy ride. We need some tough questions and clear answers. What the hell is going on? Did someone at Barksdale try to indirectly warn the American people that the Bush Administration is staging nukes for Iran? I don’t know, but it is a question worth asking.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/09/05/staging-nukes-for-iran/

.......

UPDATE from comments

Comment by hoosierhoops

I worked on nuclear submarines for the Navy at Mare Island Naval shipyard for 20 years. As a Nuc worker I handled nuclear material and weapons for 15 of those years. The controls on weapons and nuclear fuel is insanely tight.. This story just CAN’T happen. The amount of people involved in logistics..Code 105 radcon, Engineers, Nuclear riggers, Code 1390 Engineers..Gawd the paperwork involved for anyone of the groups to sign off on.
This story is impossible.. Something else is afoot..
Who signed off and who told them too?
AND WHY do we need to be moving nuclear weapons unless a logistics operation is underway?
IT JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN…They don’t just move weapons from Minot for the hell of it..
Ring…
hello?
hey..we are a little low on thermonuclear tipped weapons this week..
OK, we’ll send you a few..
Make it 6
OK

[JuniperLea]

1. We're screwn... n/t

[motocicleta]

so screwn

K n R ... Larry Johnson is an interesting figure.

[Generator]

30. Super duper screwn

[Roland99]

58. Are you saying this is HUGH?!!?

[JuniperLea]

102. Way hugh... I'm series!!!1!!! eom

[Double T]

2. Intentionally leaked information to send a message to our 'foes'.

[Joe for Clark]

16. Oh - that message was directly to us.

Good for you kids!! They did the right thing.

I always thought they will.

Read carfully just what those kids in the 82nd Airborne sent to the times.
You know what they are going to have to pay for doing that- and I don't mean officially.

TO our enemies - how many of our "enemies" have nuclear weapons exactly??

You don't think that was a warning?? If it is - who do you think they were really talking to??

Joe

[skids]

32. Yeah I'm on the fence about whether the leak was intentional...

...but if it was intentional, even if a message was primarily for saber rattling, you know they amply considered the effect it would have on the populance and decided they liked what they saw.

[Joe for Clark]

36. I guess I am a little prejudiced about the thing -

Cause I wonder- what was there to gain by such a thing??

And to lose.

Joe

[Demeter]

62. The Leakers Gained Their Souls; The Worst They Can Lose Is Their Lives

and if they do die for this, they will die knowing that they tried their best to avert nuclear holocaust.

When it's safe for them to be revealed, they are all in line for the best medals, memorials and honors America and the world can bestow.

[Cobalt-60]

52. Intentional

Look, this sort of thing just doesn't happen by accident.
And it could have been covered quite easily.
I classify it as a nuclear saber rattle from junior.
It's a stupid cheap stunt complete with excess handling of atomic weapons.

[screembloodymurder]

54. I agree.

Our President is an asshole, a third grade bully and unstable to boot. His empty threats would be laughable if he weren't so pathetic.

[peacetalksforall]

73. Leaker or planter. Cheap stunt may say nearly all. The imagination

for planting fear and sending message by these people is abysmal. They only appeal to a small sector of people who want to believe in George Bush so much that they won't think for themselves.

George and Dick are diobolically unimaginative.
Chertoff and other including MS Rice are void of imagination.

I can't take a position, yet.

Planting this kind of 'mistake' to send a message to someone is embarassing to the military and too bizarre to accept. They've gone overboard, if true.

[LSK]

103. what the hell are our foes supposed to do? they are not even doing anything

What is Iran supposed to do? Stop the non-operations they don't have going on in Iraq?

[Raksha]

122. I thought the exact same thing about Iraq!

Re What is Iran supposed to do? Stop the non-operations they don't have going on in Iraq?

I'll NEVER forget Bush saying, during the propaganda build-up to the Iraq war: "The ball is in Saddam's court." That sticks in my mind because it's one of the most STUPID things I ever heard in my life!

WTF??? Just what the hell was Saddam supposed to DO? He said he didn't have WMDs and he was telling the truth for once. He was fully cooperating with the U.N. inspectors, who also said they found no evidence of a WMD program. What could Saddam possibly have done that he wasn't doing already?

[slackmaster]

3. How many times must a question be asked...

...Before someone calls it a dupe?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1739811&mesg_id=1739811

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1740996

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1740900

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1738650&mesg_id=1738650

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2978074&mesg_id=2978074

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. Aha Batman.... we've been duped by the Riddler!!!! n/t

[slackmaster]

83. Nice to see someone on DU still has an intact sense of humor

:toast:

[Spazito]

20. I'd rather see multiple threads on this than I am seeing on the

Craig scandal. Somehow this seems more important than the toilet habits of a repub Senator.

[Done]

79. Amen nt

[slackmaster]

82. They all belong in the September 11 forum

:tinfoilhat:

[pacalo]

48. This is the first thread I've seen about this.

Dupes are okay with me.

[JohnyCanuck]

50. I agree n/t

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr Rabble]

4. We spoke about this yesterday.

This story stinks from the word go. Really, we can only guess what these maniacs are really up to with the release of this information, but whatever it is...it isn't good.

I just can not believe that nuclear weapons are part of the US leadership's negotiation tools. Staggering.

[Megahurtz]

9. I Just Hope This News

gets far and wide and is talked about a lot more. Everyone needs to hear about this hypocrisy.

Chastising other Countries for Nuclear Weapons when we have our own,
and giving them away to other "chosen" Countries as well! :crazy:

This story stinks is right so lets get the word out.

[mod mom]

38. especially when faced w cornered rats w possible war crimes charges hanging

around. (and don't forget the bravado spewing from * "we're kicking ass in Iraq" What president in their right mind would talk like a spoiled frat boy at a rivalry football game?)

[Joe for Clark]

17. Sure it is - it is the ultimate threat.

That is what this is the end - just a game of chicken.

You really think anyone could send this message thru - that didn't understand??

There is no doubt in my mind where this one came from or why it did.

And not all of us read every single post on DU -

If this was posted before - good- post it again and again.

I think it is significant. And welcome.

Joe

[Mr Rabble]

28. Sure. That much is obvious.

I dont think that this is in any way directed at Iran's leadership, but rather the US leadership's primary enemy- the US population.

The thing which is most disturbing to me is that nuclear weapons are being used as "the stick". That is insane beyond belief.

[Joe for Clark]

31. It is insane -

But that is - apparently - the way it works.

Joe

[peacebird]

5. o.m.g.

I wondered how it came out that this "accident" happened.... seemed fishy but...

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Last night I went DRY RUN

yep, thanks Larry

[zippy890]

7. someone..trying to warn the American people'??

this is both scary and weirdly re-assuring - that there are people
on the 'inside' who are willing to get this information out.

I hope people are listening

[havocmom]

14. Or somebody setting up an excuse for the Air Force to hold a Stand Down?

What, Sept. 14 for a Stand Down to review procedure? Hmm. Wasn't there an exercise going on 9-11-01 which interfered with the Air Force's ability to respond to hijacked airliners? They have this warhead error and are having a Stand Down? What else is coming up on the calendar?

Congress gets back on bushco's case re progress report and benchmarks when? Reports due when? Somebody working up an excuse for not handing homework in on time?

Deep gnawing feeling that things are getting complicated for cheney, whose chief of staff recently remarked something about America needing a bombing of such to get things going the way they want...

Things are getting rather cloudy in one big hurry. Senators having their arrests and pleas leaked, then deciding to stand and fight (maybe he is just deep in denial, or maybe he is pissed about the leak and taking it to someone, and was the leak a warning to others on the Hill?), dead GOP operatives in a love triangle in FL, indications that there have been some secret testimonies to Congress (They SURE knew a LOT about Gonzo's visit to Ashcroft in the hospital) and some sort of anonymous poster (or several) with an awful lot of good info doin the 'Deep Modem' thing on well respected sites... Sure a lot of excrement caught in various ventilating devices.

Yep, things are NOT going cheney's way. cheney doesn't strike most as the sort to come along peacefully.

His chief of staff remarked that they needed a bombing in US. A really strange incident with armed warheads on a plane; how did that story come out anyway? The Air Force holding a Stand Down just prior to a whole lotta face the music time for cheney/bush junta re the Iraq occupation?

Where's dick?

[EVDebs]

21. Ptech's software and Air Force, FAA, DoD, WH, DoJ, younameit...

Notable clientele:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptech

Wargames on that fateful day also known about, Vigilant guardian, Northern vigilance, etc.,

http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html

Put two and two together and get what Bush wants

"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell

[shanti]

49. why, the dick

is most likely in his bunker. he built that puppy for a reason!

[CrispyQ]

76. The best of the best is probably available.

The story is from last summer, but the move should be about complete.

Military to Idle NORAD Compound
Operations Will Move to Nearby Base, But Cold War Bunker to Stand Ready

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 29, 2006; Page A02

COLORADO SPRINGS, July 28 -- Facing new enemies in a different kind of war, the Pentagon said Friday that it plans to move out of the famous war room that was built beneath a mountain here in the 1960s with enough concrete to survive a Soviet missile strike.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) will transfer surveillance operations from Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center, an iconic Cold War venue depicted in such movies as "War Games" and "The Sum of All Fears," to an office building a dozen miles away at Peterson Air Force Base.

~more at link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/28/AR2006072801617.html


:tinfoilhat:

[krispos42]

57. I would say something snarky, like...

"The tinfoil is strong with this one"...


But I think you might be right.

It occured to me, when I heard about the stand-down, that the AF might be doing it to get caught up on all of the maintenence on their aircraft and get the crews and support people ready for a few days of round-the-clock combat operations in Iran. Get the air wings in the peak of readiness for... something.

And now we have preparations or a procedural and handling drill for a nuclear strike. And/or a deliberate de-fanging of the Air Force to create an intentional gap in our air defenses.

God, I hope the Navy boys are on alert.

Oh, and didn't they just move a surface-to-air missile battery up to the DC area? Can't forget that one, can we?




Oh, and it just occured to me... I'll be FLYING on September 14th and 18th!!!

Shit!!!!!!!

[Supersedeas]

100. it is very odd that this ever became public knowledge--no doubt someone made a conscious effort

[Raksha]

8. The leaker could be signaling to us that it WILL come down to a coup,

and they want us to know why ahead of time. That's my theory anyway.

[Joe for Clark]

18. I think it is a heads up -

I think it is prudent to take it as such.

And in context right now.

Joe

[MissWaverly]

27. me too, I think there's a chill wind right now

I think finally the sanity part of people's brains has kicked in.

[Purveyor]

10. K&R The 'talkback' section for this article is worth reading. Some interesting stuff there... n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

13. This comment was interesting:

From
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/09/05/staging-nukes-for-iran/

I worked on nuclear submarines for the Navy at Mare Island Naval shipyard for 20 years. As a Nuc worker I handled nuclear material and weapons for 15 of those years. The controls on weapons and nuclear fuel is insanely tight.. This story just CAN’T happen. The amount of people involved in logistics..Code 105 radcon, Engineers, Nuclear riggers, Code 1390 Engineers..Gawd the paperwork involved for anyone of the groups to sign off on.
This story is impossible.. Something else is afoot..
Who signed off and who told them too?
AND WHY do we need to be moving nuclear weapons unless a logistics operation is underway?
IT JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN…They don’t just move weapons from Minot for the hell of it..

As a former Airforce aircraft mechanic I was stunned when I heard the report that nukes had inadvertantly been loaded on a B-52 and flown across country. It would be a mistake of staggering porportions if this had happened by mistake. Anyone who is familiar with Airforce proceedures regarding even the simplist of proceedures where aircraft are concerned would know that it would be all but impossible to make this kind of mistake.

Those who work on the line are some of the most profesional men and women I have ever known. Every one of them understand the inherent risks that are involved in this kind of work and follow the proceedures accordingly. With the many layers of control that exist in this kind of work, there are too many individuals that have to sign off on anything that is done. Even more so when handling weapons of any kind.

Clearly someone on the inside wanted us to know this had happened

[Joe for Clark]

19. Nice post -and dead on the money.

There is no other expaination.

We are being warned.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

12. Oh - doesn't it really mean that the kids are "turning out"

It is all in context -

Hell of a point made here.

I really hope and believe - before this goes too far - those kids are going to speak - they already are a little at a time.

I have no doubt of the source on this one. It is incredible in its honesty.

And honesty is in direct contradiction to military advancement.

Oh - it is the best thing about Americans - Our officers can fall in battle with the full knowledge that the lower echelon will follow thru. It is unique - different. When a leader falls in our army - the next in line picks up and carries on. From Bunker hill to this day.

This army IS those kids. They aren't trying to make Colonel - just do their job. DO the right thing - as they were brought up to do.

I think it is our best hope.

Joe

[Annces]

15. Somebody pull out their crystal ball n/t

[Joe for Clark]

22. That is not right - you think somebody is going to hand you a

perfect solution. Absolute truth?

That doesn't exist.

The best you have, any of us have - is some reading between the lines.

That is the only truth you can hopw to expect in this life.

Joe

[havocmom]

23. The Air Force scares me. All those Rapture Ready Fundies in the brass

Army, Marine Corp are exhausted, but the Air Force could start on helluva war from way up high and be home for supper.

Or, that Stand Down thing could be one more excuse to have very good, highly trained people too slow to respond to 'another Pearl Harbor'.

The Air Force scares me.

Where's dick?

[CrispyQ]

77. They scare me too. -nt

[texanshatingbush]

95. I wholeheartedly agree with you.......

My first thought on hearing about the "accidental" transit of the nuclear warheads was that some fundy wing-nut colonels from Colorado Springs had decided to take things into their own hands and nuke everyone they perceived as opposing "God's plan for America and His anointed leader". Those guys creep me out, and the Air Force seems unable or unwilling to flush them from the system, in order to protect our Constitution and rule of law.

In the interest of full disclosure: I am a church-going Episcopalian !

[coco77]

119. They are taking there orders from...

Pastor Hagee...

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I didn't handle this material

and didn't even handle it in the US

but some of the crap we handled required quite a bit of security... the joys of hazmat

Spot on, somebody gave an order that moved this material without the usual tracking

I'd hate to post what is going through my mind right now... but one misplaced nuke is a nightmare on its own, now six of them...

Something bout we don't want the proof to be a mushroom cloud over an American City

Yep, I've been thinking dry run, but dry run for what?

[kpete]

25. some telling comments at:

http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559956

Exclamation Re: B-52 mistakenly flies with nukes aboard

When I was in the Air Force and worked on these types of missiles we never would have sent these missiles out on a B-52 for decommissioning. These missiles would have had their warheads removed and boxed up for shipping and the missile body it self would have been boxed up and both items would have been shipped out on and C-5. This was the only way we where could have shipped them not on or in a B-52. This could not have happened, we are not being told the whole store there has to be more to it!!!!!!!!!!!


Originally Posted by Unregistered

The three officers who leaked the story to the press should be punished just as harshly as those responsible for this snafu. This was a classified incident and it should've stayed that way. There was no serious danger to the public, nor any real need-to-know on the public's part. It is clearly a one-time incident and probably resulted from combination of factors. The Air Force, regardles of the publicity, will conduct a thorough investigation and implement certain procedures to ensure this never happens again. So all of this publicity is irrelevant and accomplishes nothing other than giving our enemies and peaceniks verbal ammunition to use against us politically

and the response

With all due respect...Horsedung!

If we lose track of 5 nukes and fly them unknowingly over the country...yeah, the public has a right to know that.

We don't need to keep secrets of our screwups...I'm sorry, but someone needs to be held accountable here. This is a major deal.

[coco77]

120. Just think about what we don't know...

they have been classifying any and everything since they have been in office...

[burrowowl]

132. WHY WERE THE NUKES ON BOARD!?!?

[Telly Savalas]

26. Larry Johnson is a busy man.

He pretty much carries the Chiefs offense on his back, but he still finds time to write essays on foreign policy. Impressive.

[Flarney]

67. That would explain his contract holdout...he had too much on his plate for training camp... n/t

[Wiley50]

29. Malloy Opened His Show With This Story Tonight n/t

[roamer65]

33. I have read that these are low-yield nukes in the 5-150 kt range.

Just enough to take out a nuclear facility like Natanz, correct?

[krispos42]

59. one-third to ten times Nagasaki or HIroshima

They aren't the massive hydrogen bombs that were tested in the '50s, but trust me, they're plenty big.

One of these detonated a couple of hundred yards above Central Park would take out most of Manhattan and parts of the Bronx and New Jersey. Probably kill a half-million people in the first second after detonation. Hundreds of thousands more as the shock wave smashed buildings into rubble. Immediate, massive fires.

Radiation and fast-moving nuclear particles kills tens of thousands more within 24 hours, tens or hundreds of thousands within a week.

Radioactive cloud drifts over the Bronx and fans out over Westchester county, the coastline of Connecticut, and the north shore of Long Island. Probably to Martha's Vineyard.

Another half-million people inhale dust full of strange, decaying isotopes that were formed when a sleet of nuclear particles slammed into rock and wood and steel before the shock wave and mushroom cloud sends the stuff into the atmosphere. Hundreds of thousands will be dead of cancer in a few months.



I don't think these penetrate deeply into the earth, so there is no way the explosion can be contained underground. The detonation WILL spray millions of tons of radioactive debris in the air if the nukes are set for a ground burst. Be a hell of a crater, too. Proabably a quarter mile wide and 50 feet deep.

[peacetalksforall]

75. So, what would it do in Iran and the neighborhood? For how many

years would the poison stay in the blood, sands, soils, and waters?

[krispos42]

97. Depends on where it hit

If they targeted a facility with a ground burst, the initial deaths would be fairly low, because it's an isolated part of the country. However, the plume of radioactive dust will spread and drift all the way across Pakistan and India and maybe Bangladesh. Nearly 2 billion people.

It takes about a month before the various radioactive isotopes have decaysed enough to make travel and decontamination easy and possible at ground zero and the immediate downwind area. Further down, the materials will disperse over millions of square miles. But until then, everybody in the fallout immediate zone will be receiving doses of radiation that will eventually kill them. Perhaps in a month, perhaps in a year. Not to mention all of the mutated fetuses, shattered immune systems, and cancers that will be caused.

Further away, incidences of cancers, tumors, mutations, and miscarriages will climb sharply. You know how Iraqis have been dealing with the depleted uranium problem? Like that, but probably somewhat worse in the short term.

One bomb detonated in an isolated area will not be too big a of a deal, relatively speaking. Due to the distances involved, only a small fraction of people would eventually have problems in the Subcontinent area.

However, using a nuclear weapon unprovoked is unacceptable, and it scares me that "One bomb detonated in an isolated will not be too big of a deal, relatively speaking" might become official Bush policy.

Remember, the lack of advanced health care on the Subcontinent area will magnify the effects.

[peacetalksforall]

113. And my theory - that our 'owners' want the melting water of the

Himalyas - piped to Israel and the Mediterranean parallel to the oil pipelines. So, contaminate the glaciers and you have radiation traveling through the pipelines side by side with the water.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Let me add another link

"We Are Going To Hit Iran. Bigtime"
by Maccabee
Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 03:50:24 PM PDT
I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and tasked to specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

I asked her why she is telling me this.

Her answer was really amazing.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlasBabylon/message/33441

[guruoo]

92. It appears that original story has been scrubbed

from dailykos. Either that, or the link is bad.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/1/183018/1527

[lyonn]

131. The lady officer telling the story

could be in fear of her own life plus the entire crew on her carrier. The people responsible for reporting nukes on the B-52 might, we can only hope, have saved Iran from an attack and our ships at sea from attack. Hell, the MSM has already found new Breaking News and we are now back to the debates and Sen. Craig. This is like a horror story....

[guruoo]

134. The author put her in danger....

by going into so much detail about her position.

[burrowowl]

35. I have a hard time believing

that no one knew Nukes were aboard!
Either the military has gotten sloppy as hell not following SOP or there is lying about how the Nukes were stores on the aircraft.
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

My tinfoil hat is going crazy!

[populistdriven]

37. Barksdale Air Force Base, LA was our first strike base for Iraq in 91

Russians test firing missiles over the north pole.....

[jimshoes]

39. Pssst george, and especially you DICK!

[Phrogman]

40. I think these "Iran attack preparation" leaks are designed to scare Americans......

These have been going on now for over a year.
This has to be some kind of mental preparation of the masses for something coming up.

Why would congress deny us the relief of knowing that an attack could not be initiated without consultation and debate?

So why would the government put the thinking half of the population in a state of mental stress for this long?

Are they expecting that we'll be so relieved that the wait is over that we won't go ballistic back at home when the first bombs start to fall in Iran?

Or do they know that they're not going to do it and they just want to wear us down?
It sucks to be the target of a Psyop by ones own elected leaders.

[roamer65]

41. The two main goals for the Iran war will be:

1. Weaken Iran militarily by destroying most of its military, industrial and nuclear facilities. I have no doubt * will use low-yield nuclear weapons in this goal.

2. Running the "Khuzestan Gambit" to try to separate the oil rich province from Iran and getting it to join with the Shi'a partition of Iraq in a Arab Shi'a superstate.


The true end result will be an absolute cluster fuck that Russia and China won't be able to stay out of...in other words...World War III.

[kineneb]

45. re: #2

Boy, do they underestimate the nationalism of the average Iranian. Yes, they may be Arab Shi'a, but they are Persian first. BushCo will mess with Iran at their own risk. If BushCo did not understand the ethnic dynamics in Iraq, they are totally clueless when it comes to Iranian nationalism.

I am not into prayer, but I sure am thinking positive thoughts for my relatives still in Iran.

Russia and China have economic agreements with Iran. I don't think they will stand by passively if the manure hits the ventilator.

[peacetalksforall]

80. And the barons will have achieved their other objective -

make us a third world country - take us back to the depression - that is, the ones who survive.

WW III could be the great equalizer of the top three countries. And be assured, the rich of those three countries won't be touched.

Mercenaries will score. Unless the gift of a conscience touches them.

[FourScore]

42. K&R

You are an amazing researcher kpete. I don't know hoew you do it.

[CGowen]

43. Do we know what kind of nukes they were ?

I was reading the Iran Study and they were talking about different scenarios: 3kt nukes, 10kt nukes and a 400 kt nuke (B61-11)

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Study_US_preparing_massive_military_attack_0828.html

[Snazzy]

44. w-80 dial-a-nuke

5-140 kt per FAS, 10-150 kt in Navy Times article (or vice versa, forget who had which rating).

[Kablooie]

46. This is something I felt back in January.

I felt that Bush's true goal was to escalate things until he has an opportunity to drop a nuclear bomb.

I wrote a post about it on Jan 15, 07.

I still think a specific goal is to use a nuclear weapon before he leaves office.

[JohnyCanuck]

51. Not only that,

If Dubya is hot to prove his manhood by launching a nuclear attack, you can bet your bottom dollar the puppet's string puller, i.e. Dr. Strangelove Cheney, is pulling Pinocchio's strings from behind the curtain too.

[Eurobabe]

65. Bush is one SICK fuck, if he gives the go ahead

I think it's CHENEY behind this shit, he's been too quiet lately.

All behind the back of Congress. Where is the goddamn oversight on these LOONS??

[peacetalksforall]

84. And Chency could drop by his heart the next day.

Congress has already given their approval by saying they don't need to give their approval and by the likes of Joe Leiberman and the Nelsons, Landrieau, etc. who paved the way. They are lily-white compared to all the other Senators - the ones you don't expect it from, Including Ted Kennedy. Insiduous act of death and traitorism.. Please, please tell me I'm wrong and how I'm wrong.

[McCamy Taylor]

47. Is it time to put peace keepers in Iran that we know for sure Cheney and *

would never nuke? Like a bunch of nuns and Nobel peace prize winners and important scientists from around the world? They would only have to volunteer to stay there for a few months at a time and they could rotate in and out. Since Russia and China trade with Iran, they could donate some VIPs to man the peace keeping mission, too. That way the US would lose tremendous face with its allies if it tried anything.

The mission could end in January 2009.

[liberation]

61. Iran has a much better life insurance policy: China

They are one of China's main energy providers.

The largest standing army in the world is less than 1000 miles away from the troops in Iraq, the last thing the largest standing army in the world wants to see is its supply of oil threatened.

Bush would bomb Iran even if Mother Theresa was being there as a human shield, Bush will do squat having China as Iran's main oil client. China can in a second dump the billions of dollars it has in reserves, and make our currency so worthless as to make the depression of 29 look like a picnic.

Bush is such a dumb ass that he can't even bluff right, you don't fucking bluff a country that in one second can turn your economy into dust.

[Individualist]

109. and Russia

[pingzing58]

53. This story should not go away until the truth is known. Excellent, thanks.

[orleans]

55. K&R. i don't remember olbermann talking about this (on wednesday) n/t

[mod mom]

72. He didn't and I was very disappointed. It was up at Huff Po and it seems he

follows a lot of the same stories they do, so I thought for sure he would. I also sent it to him (and I'm sure others did as well.) It's up all over the internet does anyone know if the corporate media is touching it?

[havocmom]

88. Waiting to get more info?

Just a guess. KO & his team seem pretty good about getting ducks in line. Will be watching this evening to see if they cover it.

[mod mom]

89. I just emailed him asking him to host Larry Johnson as a guest tonight.

If for no other reason than to calm fears-it needs discussing.

[havocmom]

91. Good deed! Johnson is very sane but not blind.

He is a treasure to those who love America.

[donkeyotay]

99. I saw the story on teevee yesterday, but the facts were different

Footage of a B-52 bomber, and they said it was an accident - that the nukes were going for decommissioning and that the accidental part was that someone forgot to remove the warheads. On the internet one comment said that decommissioned nukes would not be flown on B-52s. The question I have is where would nukes be sent for decommissioning? Barksdale?

So is the media covering the story in a way to reassure us while still threatening Iran? Maybe. I'm inclined to think that Johnson's version makes more sense.

[orleans]

133. story ran on cnn thursday--at least as a crawl n/t

[colorado_ufo]

56. Let us all refresh our memories about Barksdale and 9/11!

Do a quick Google. Air Force One flew there right after the attacks, and there is much more. As the old saying goes, "The plot thickens."

[Joanne98]

63. Has anybody asked the "Christians" yet! George Bush's Praetorian Guard

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chris%20_Hedges/America's_Holy_Warriors.html

America's Holy Warriors

by Chris Hedges, Truthdig
www.alternet.org, January 4, 2007


The radical Christian Right is coming dangerously close to its goal of taking over the country's military and law enforcement.
The drive by the Christian right to take control of military chaplaincies, which now sees radical Christians holding roughly 50 percent of chaplaincy appointments in the armed services and service academies, is part of a much larger effort to politicize the military and law enforcement. This effort signals the final and perhaps most deadly stage in the long campaign by the radical Christian right to dismantle America's open society and build a theocratic state. A successful politicization of the military would signal the end of our democracy.
During the past two years I traveled across the country to research and write the book "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America." I repeatedly listened to radical preachers attack as corrupt and godless most American institutions, from federal agencies that provide housing and social welfare to public schools and the media. But there were two institutions that never came under attack -- the military and law enforcement. While these preachers had no interest in communicating with local leaders of other faiths, or those in the community who did not subscribe to their call for a radical Christian state, they assiduously courted and flattered the military and police. They held special services and appreciation days for all four branches of the armed services and for various law enforcement agencies. They encouraged their young men and women to enlist or to join the police or state troopers. They sought out sympathetic military and police officials to attend church events where these officials were lauded and feted for their Christian probity and patriotism. They painted the war in Iraq not as an occupation but as an apocalyptic battle by Christians against Islam, a religion they regularly branded as "satanic." All this befits a movement whose final aesthetic is violence. It also befits a movement that, in the end, would need the military and police forces to seize power in American society.
One of the arguments used to assuage our fears that the mass movement being built by the Christian right is fascist at its core is that it has not yet created a Praetorian Guard, referring to the paramilitary force that defied legal constraints, made violence part of the political discourse and eventually plunged ancient Rome into tyranny and despotism. A paramilitary force that operates outside the law, one that sows fear among potential opponents and is capable of physically silencing those branded by their leaders as traitors, is a vital instrument in the hands of despotic movements. Communist and fascist movements during the last century each built paramilitary forces that operated beyond the reach of the law.
And yet we may be further down this road than we care to admit. Erik Prince, the secretive, mega-millionaire, right-wing Christian founder of Blackwater, the private security firm that has built a formidable mercenary force in Iraq, champions his company as a patriotic extension of the U.S. military. His employees, in an act as cynical as it is deceitful, take an oath of loyalty to the Constitution. These mercenary units in Iraq, including Blackwater, contain some 20,000 fighters. They unleash indiscriminate and wanton violence against unarmed Iraqis, have no accountability and are beyond the reach of legitimate authority. The appearance of these paramilitary fighters, heavily armed and wearing their trademark black uniforms, patrolling the streets of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, gave us a grim taste of the future. It was a stark reminder that the tyranny we impose on others we will one day impose on ourselves.
"Contracting out security to groups like Blackwater undermines our constitutional democracy," said Michael Ratner, the president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "Their actions may not be subject to constitutional limitations that apply to both federal and state officials and employees -- including First Amendment and Fourth Amendment rights to be free from illegal searches and seizures. Unlike police officers they are not trained in protecting constitutional rights and unlike police officers or the military they have no system of accountability whether within their organization or outside it. These kind of paramilitary groups bring to mind Nazi Party brownshirts, functioning as an extrajudicial enforcement mechanism that can and does operate outside the law. The use of these paramilitary groups is an extremely dangerous threat to our rights."
The politicization of the military, the fostering of the belief that violence must be used to further a peculiar ideology rather than defend a democracy, was on display recently when Air Force and Army generals and colonels, filmed in uniform at the Pentagon, appeared in a promotional video distributed by the Christian Embassy, a radical Washington-based organization dedicated to building a "Christian America."
The video, first written about by Jeff Sharlet in the December issue of Harper's Magazine and filmed shortly after 9/11, has led the Military Religious Freedom Foundation to raise a legal protest against the Christian Embassy's proselytizing within the Department of Defense. The video was hastily pulled from the Christian Embassy website and was removed from YouTube a few days ago under threats of copyright enforcement.
Dan Cooper, an undersecretary of veterans affairs, says in the video that his weekly prayer sessions are "more important than doing the job." Maj. Gen. Jack Catton says that his being an adviser to the Joint Chiefs of Staff is a "wonderful opportunity" to evangelize men and women setting defense policy. "My first priority is my faith," he says. "I think it's a huge impact. ... You have many men and women who are seeking God's counsel and wisdom as they advise the chairman and the secretary of defense."
Col. Ralph Benson, a Pentagon chaplain, says in the video: "Christian Embassy is a blessing to the Washington area, a blessing to our capital; it's a blessing to our country. They are interceding on behalf of people all over the United States, talking to ambassadors, talking to people in the Congress, in the Senate, talking to people in the Pentagon, and being able to share the message of Jesus Christ in a very, very important time in our world is winning a worldwide war on terrorism. What more do we need than Christian people leading us and guiding us, so, they're needed in this hour."
The group has burrowed deep inside the Pentagon. It hosts weekly Bible sessions with senior officers, by its own count some 40 generals, and weekly prayer breakfasts each Wednesday from 7 to 7:50 a.m. in the executive dining room as well as numerous outreach events to, in the words of the organization, "share and sharpen one another in their quest to bridge the gap between faith and work."
If the United States falls into a period of instability caused by another catastrophic terrorist attack, an economic meltdown or a series of environmental disasters, these paramilitary forces, protected and assisted by fellow ideologues in the police and military, could swiftly abolish what is left of our eroding democracy. War, with the huge profits it hands to businesses and right-wing interests that often help bankroll the Christian right, could become a permanent condition. And the thugs with automatic weapons, black uniforms and wraparound sunglasses who appeared on street corners in Baghdad and New Orleans could appear on streets across the U.S. Such a presence could paralyze us with fear, leaving us unable to question or protest the closed system and secrecy of an emergent totalitarian state and unable to voice dissent.
"The Bush administration has already come close to painting our current wars as wars against Islam -- many in the Christian right apparently have this belief," Ratner said. "If these wars, bad enough as imperial wars, are fought as religious wars, we are facing a very dark age that could go on for a hundred years and that will be very bloody."


Chris Hedges is the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chris%20_Hedges/America's_Holy_Warriors.html

[peacetalksforall]

93. While we watched sports and serials and shopped, these

people groomed, were groomed, and placed. Civic jobs, school boards, all layers of judges, lawyers, chaplains as we're learning, legislators, commentators and experts on everything science and not science through the Heritage Foundation and tons of others - gaining key seats with corporate tv hosts in front of the camera. All because of their votes, their precious votes that the right wing always counts on. Plus,the gullibility and bigotry they rely on. They married the up with the politics of Jews, the ones who are blind about Israel and what they want the U.S. to do for Israel and for each other (for a little profit on the side) - the Jews who were on their Christian list before all the new politics of the marriage were placed in cement and then replaced in a revival of redirection of hate towards Moslems and 'Mexicans' (all Central Americans are identified as Mexicans in their world).

[Ganja Ninja]

64. I worked on nukes in the navy too.

I agree. There's no way they ever confuse a nuke with anything else. In the first place the nukes are locked away securely at all times. They would not store them with conventional weapons. They would never confuse them with conventional weapons because they would never get the chance. The nukes are locked away and guarded and hooked to alarms at all times. This was no mistake.

[slackmaster]

85. You're probably right, and speaking of the Navy...

Why on Earth is anyone concerned about a plane armed with nuclear weapons flying over the continental USA, which has been happening frequently for half a century, when the United States Navy has a large presence in the Indian Ocean right now (and presumably well armed with nuclear weapons)?

[mikeyj84]

66. B-52/Nukes

WTF? The Air Force response was they were mistakingly loaded on the planes,what a crock of shit! how do you mistake nuclear war heads. more lies, more lies, more lies. If these idiots have any intention of using them, God help us all!

[kenfrequed]

69. Hmm

I agree, it seems difficult to believe that Nuclear weapons could accidentally be moved.

[slackmaster]

86. If they had any intention of using them but decided not to, then why...

Did we hear about it?

[PianoBlack]

68. This is.....

This is unthinkable. He is going to screw us and run. That's his plan. He is setting up this war so that we can't get out of it with a change of power. He is going to bomb Iran and then leave the mess for someone else to clean up knowing that he is financially secure for the rest of his days.

War with Iran=higher oil prices= more money for Bush's friends= more kickbacks to a former president who got them set for life= the rest of us are screwed

[kestrel91316]

130. Bush is poisoning the well. He knows damned well no Repubican

could get elected President in 2008, so if it's going to be a Dem, he's making sure their presidency is going to be a living hell.

Bush will start WWIII but won't have to deal with the consequences. He'll be on that ranch in Paraguay.

[kenfrequed]

70. What if?

What if they weren't actually moved?

What if they are still in Iowa or someplace else where no one would look for them?

[Kelly Rupert]

71. This article is somewhat ridiculous.

Do you actually--ACTUALLY--believe that nuking anyone requires close-range staging?

You realize, of course, that our long-range missiles (say, those in Minot) are perfectly capable of hitting Iran. You also realize, of course, that we have nuclear submarines capable of hitting Iran. There's...simply no benefit to American strategic options by doing this.

[spoony]

78. Thank you.

Jesus, sometimes the convoluted web of tin foil here is just too damn much.

[mod mom]

87. If you read commentary you would discover the troubling aspect is the disregard for strict

protocol in moving these. It appears from folks with experience that there is USUALLY closely followed, checked and rechecked oversight that what is ridiculous, is that this could actually happen.

[Kelly Rupert]

101. Yes, that is certainly troubling. But

it wasn't what the headline, the article, or most posters here are talking about.

[mod mom]

106. LJ poses"Maybe there is an innocent explanation for this"-but he can think of one.

some of the comments from NoQuarter appear to be from folks with experience (already quoted here on DU):

Comment by hoosierhoops | 2007-09-05 22:05:58

I worked on nuclear submarines for the Navy at Mare Island Naval shipyard for 20 years. As a Nuc worker I handled nuclear material and weapons for 15 of those years. The controls on weapons and nuclear fuel is insanely tight.. This story just CAN’T happen. The amount of people involved in logistics..Code 105 radcon, Engineers, Nuclear riggers, Code 1390 Engineers..Gawd the paperwork involved for anyone of the groups to sign off on.
This story is impossible.. Something else is afoot..
Who signed off and who told them too?
AND WHY do we need to be moving nuclear weapons unless a logistics operation is underway?
IT JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN…They don’t just move weapons from Minot for the hell of it..
Ring…
hello?
hey..we are a little low on thermonuclear tipped weapons this week..
OK, we’ll send you a few..
Make it 6
OK
_____________________________________
It doesn’t happen!!!!



Comment by JerryB | 2007-09-05 22:47:24

As a former Airforce aircraft mechanic I was stunned when I heard the report that nukes had inadvertantly been loaded on a B-52 and flown across country. It would be a mistake of staggering porportions if this had happened by mistake. Anyone who is familiar with Airforce proceedures regarding even the simplist of proceedures where aircraft are concerned would know that it would be all but impossible to make this kind of mistake.

Those who work on the line are some of the most profesional men and women I have ever known. Every one of them understand the inherent risks that are involved in this kind of work and follow the proceedures accordingly. With the many layers of control that exist in this kind of work, there are too many individuals that have to sign off on anything that is done. Even more so when handling weapons of any kind.

Clearly someone on the inside wanted us to know this had happened



Comment by clif | 2007-09-05 23:05:12

As a former Army EOD officer, I remember NOBODY touches a nuke with out many levels of command double checking on things, and signing off on multiple forms, and with the requirement of asecond person to double check each moveit is incredulas to thnk this cold be accidental.

I don’treally know which is truly the scarier senario …

Bush and Cheney are intentionally planning a nuke strike on Iran…

Or they have screwed up the military so bad, that the military can LOSE five nukes and nobody knows about it until they are found in a different state, in an uauthorised place with NO control over who as custody of the nuclear weapons. (because the pilot and flight commander did not sign for live active nuclear weapons according to the “official story” put out at this moment )…

sleep well tonight thinking this is the military george bush commands…..



LIKE LARRY PONDERS-MAYBE THIS IS ALL INNOCENT, BUT AFTER LIVING THROUGH YEARS OF LIES AND DECEPTION FROM THE * CABAL, WE MUST ASK THE TOUGH QUESTIONS JUST IN CASE.

[Kelly Rupert]

108. Given the incredible logistical strains on the military,

and the thousands of daily opportunities for disaster, I would go with the truly frightening (and, what's more, plausible) scenario that we simply lost a half-dozen nukes, because the right people got lazy at the wrong time.

There is no strategic benefit to this. It's just a monumental fuckup that should cost the jobs of everyone involved.

[mod mom]

111. If you are incorrect and this was a covert action by a rogue element and the the jobs

lost were those of patriots who wished to get the word out prior to an even more monumental fuckup, then those responsible for informing The Military Times are heroes.

Either way we need an immediate and full investigation.

[Kelly Rupert]

126. If I am incorrect,

and there ends up being a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran, I will donate $100 to DU that very day and start a thread to apologize. I am not kidding. (After all, if someone in power is hellbent on kickin' it Strangelove style, they're not going to let a minor setback like this stop them.)

There will be an investigation, though probably an internal one. This is an enormous embarrassment to the Pentagon.

[ColonelTom]

94. What, me worry?

Gee, they're loading nuclear missiles onto bombers. Why worry? I'll start paying attention when the bombs start falling. :sarcasm:

[Kelly Rupert]

105. What benefit is there to doing this?

We already have, by our missile stockpile, unlimited nuclear first-strike and second-strike potential for every point on the globe. Why on Earth would Bush order this? What benefit is there?

For that matter, why would we use B-52s for a strike on Iran? Ship-based missiles, B-1s, and B-2s are all better-suited to the job, if we're talking about nuking Iranian nuclear facilities. If we intend to go all glass-parking-lot, missiles are better-suited.

Moreover, sneaking around nukes does not make sense in the slightest. If they had simply filled out proper protocol, nobody would have noticed, and nobody would have cared. And honestly, if we're going to nuke Iran, it's not like we'll be able to be sneaky about it. It'll be pretty fucking obvious that we did it.

[ColonelTom]

117. What, do you think this was an accident?

How do you "accidentally" end up with several nuclear-tipped missiles on a B-52? They're on there for a reason, and I seriously doubt it's just for kicks.

"Filled out proper protocol" - you can't just midnight-requisition a few nuclear missiles! We've had several ex-military personnel post that there are extensive procedures required before they can be moved. The WH wants us to believe this was just some sort of missed paperwork? PLEASE.

[Kelly Rupert]

125. Yes, actually, I do.

The missiles were supposed to have their nuclear warheads removed earlier. They were not, due to an administrative oversight. As a result, proper procedures for transporting nuclear material were not followed, because nobody knew the missiles were carrying a live payload.

Nobody ordered the missiles moved. Nobody wanted them moved. Nobody even knew they were being moved until the plane had already landed. That's what you're not getting.

[debbierlus]

115. From what I read, it wouldn't be long range nukes that will be used

If the Neo-crazies are insane enough to use nukes, I have read that they will be the bunker buster type nuclear bombs for short range targets.

[Kelly Rupert]

128. The RNEP "Bunker-buster nuke" was never developed.

It was proposed (and funding for initial research authorized for FY2003), but Congress discontinued funding, and the project was abandoned in 2005.

Oh, and before you say "they probably developed it in secret with secret money:" First, it's impossible to test a nuclear weapon without anyone noticing. Secondly, the primary use of any strategic weapon is deterrence.

[ToeBot]

74. Has anyone questioned the responsible commanders about their "Precious bodily fluids"? nt

[ColonelTom]

81. Reversal of long-standing U.S. policy

Yikes.

The risk of flying accidents, however, led the United States to abandon all nuclear-armed bomber flights in 1968, according to Hans Kristensen, a nuclear weapons expert with the Federation of American Scientists.

Until then, the Air Force kept about 12 strategic bombers in the air at all times, with each one usually carrying two to four nuclear gravity bombs.

Several accidents occurred (see GSN, June 20, 2005), including a crash in Spain in 1966 and then a crash at an air base in Greenland on Jan. 21, 1968. The plane’s nuclear weapons did not explode in the latter incident, but their radioactive fissile material was dispersed at the crash site.

Defense Secretary Robert McNamara that day ordered the grounding of all nuclear-armed aircraft, a policy that has continued for four decades. Instead of flying with nuclear weapons, armed bombers were kept on alert on the ground with flight crews nearby to enable the planes to take off within minutes, if necessary.

In 1991, President George H.W. Bush reduced the bomber alert status further by ordering nuclear weapons to be removed from the aircraft and kept in nearby storage facilities.

“To my knowledge, the recent incident was the first time that a live nuclear weapon has been flown on a U.S. bomber in the air since 1968,” Kristensen said. “But I’m sure there are bound to be some surprises in the classified files somewhere.”

U.S. nuclear weapons are routinely transported around the nation and the world, he said, but special transport aircraft are employed to maximize safety.

[mmonk]

90. Moving these by B-52s is disturbing.

Are these missile warheads or gravity nuclear bombs?

[TexasLawyer]

96. kick

[paparush]

98. This story is Psy Ops against Iran and the American People

Fear. Fear. Fear.

Its a not so subtle reminder to Iran. We have the nukes. Congress gave us the green light. Your time is coming.

Its a reminder to the 'Murkin People. We have the means. Congress gave us approval to use them.
9/11 ->Pearl Harbor -> Japan -> Hiroshima. Nukes were justified.

Its all psy ops. And its a harbinger of dark days ahead.

[LSK]

104. there should be Congressional Hearings on this

[slackmaster]

107. No, Congress has much bigger fish to fry

If they only would.

[LSK]

110. bigger than nuking Iran???

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

112. Any possible contemplated nuking of Iran has nothing to do with the B-52 incident

The nukes that would actually be used are already in place on Navy ships that have been in the area constantly for many years.

People, don't allow yourselves to be taken in by this distraction.

[bos1]

121. Agreed. just the massive SNAFU

deserves it.

[debbierlus]

114. Good point. I can't believe this didn't occur to me!

That story didn't even register as a tip to something much larger. Excellent post. K & R!

[msedano]

116. sure it can happen out of pure stupidity

do you remember the blatant stupidity of some lifers? where there are b-52s there are special weapons. end of story, it's slim pickens for conspiracy theories here. at any rate, i sure hope so.



mvs

http://readraza.com
http://labloga.blogspot.com

[bos1]

123. "slim pickens". Ha. I get it.

He's the guy who rode the nuke in "Dr Strangelove".

[windbreeze]

118. the best we can do is NOT assume anything...

staging nukes for Iran...uhhh...maybe...but how bout we remember some other things that may or may not be important....

the air defense tech battalion sent to the WH, just recently...(and now all of our air defenses ARE grounded on the 14th?)
the put options on the stock market...betting on a huge fall by the 19th of Sept..billions, in fact..
9/11 is a Tuesday again...(whether or not that matters, I just mention it) and the 14th is a Friday..(news dump day, people hurrying to get home for the week-end)
how many times have we heard someone say(Chertoff/Cheney) that cities in this country could be nuked this year...??
it has been announced to the world at large, that NO defensive planes/bombers/fighters will be allowed in the air on the 14th of Sept...in order to do a procedural review???? what??? we will voluntarilly shut down ALL of our defenses in order to do a PROCEDURAL REVIEW???
The Democratic Congress will be back in session....

so once again...nuke staging for Iran?? or...something else entirely...False Flag maybe?...

the military is NOT going to make a blunder like this..there are procedures to follow...and anyone involved in this caper KNEW those procedures, inside and out.....this was NO accidental shipping of nukes...it was DELIBERATE...but IF this were a mistake(just for the sake of argument)...it would seem to me, the military would have kept this as quiet as possible, relieved everyone involved of their duties, and COURT MARTIALED them all...from the top guy, right down to the grunt on the ground...

One thing is for sure...we got some real nutcases running this country...and I put nothing past them...including nuking the capital...in order to take on Iran..Seemed to me, that I read somewhere that * wasn't going to be in DC..around that time...anyone know what his plans are for next week..???

I too have been trying to figure out what this whole incident means...I am not saying that my thoughts are correct...I am saying something stinks..and we better stay awake and alert...Some have come right out and told us, they expect some of our cities to be nuked this year...how many times do we have to be told?? Do we think they wouldn't do it...and then try to say someone else did???(Iran?) HAH!! we certainly couldn't still be that naive...could we?? If we are willing to believe they wouldn't...then just out of curiosity....what does anyone think would happen IF that particular city were bombed?? Would we be willing to wait for an investigation or proof of who did what??? what would the American people do?? I imagine I can just hear it...The bastards just bombed our capital...let's go get them...we'll turn the ME into a sea of glass...UH HUH...think not?? well, ok then...

The real point is, everything that happens, happens for a reason...nothing is coincidental...it is all deliberate..did someone blow the whistle? possibly...and I say Thank You if they did...would that deter an intention? I honestly don't know...but because they spoke up about what they saw...whatever might happen or might have been planned, just may have become a whole lot harder to cover up...let's hope...wb

[Joe Chi Minh]

124. It's funny, I was only thinking this afternoon, maybe it will take a

nuclear holocaust to crush the US/UK military-industrial complex, whereupon, i.e. when we ourselves are finally nuked, I imagine, its principals might well be torn, limb from limb by the populace. It could even be safe for everyone to fly in small planes again.

But nuclear war, it seems to me, is the natural outcome of the ambitions of the m-i complex - even if they didn't proximately intend it; which alas it is apparently well-documented they do, in any case.

It would be fun to see our surviving politicians walking around in animal skins, way down the pecking order, but not at that price.

[mod mom]

127. Wasn't it you KCabot, who recently quoted Einstein:

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones..." -Albert Einstein

[Joe Chi Minh]

129. It was, mod mom, and I'd been regretting all day that I hadn't added

that bit about the latest in post-Apocalyptic sartorial perquisites.

Coincidentally, it looks like the prayer of Bishop Mauro Morelli I cite in my signature line for the downfall of the global financial system may be being answered. We shall see.