Children don't belong on ATVs -- yet another victim

[theHandpuppet]

We won't allow children to drive cars that have seat belts and air bags and on smooth paved roads but it's okay for them to go tearing off in rugged terrain on ATVs??? How utterly stupid and irresponsible is that? Sadly, here's another victim...

http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/articles/2007/09/05/news/local_news/2news_atvinjury.txt
Boy hurt in ATV crash
South Webster principal's son is hospitalized

By JEFF BARRON
PDT Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 5, 2007 12:17 AM EDT

The 12-year-old son of South Webster High School Principal Bob Johnson was critically injured Sunday in an all-terrain vehicle crash in Bloom Township.

Capt. Robert Woodford, of the Scioto County Sheriff's Office, said Riley Johnson, a Wheelersburg resident, suffered incapacitating injuries and was taken to Cabell Huntington Hospital in Huntington, W.Va., after the 2:53 p.m. crash.

Woodford said an incapacitating injury is one step above a fatal injury.

<snipping>

Johnson reportedly was ejected from the vehicle, then it rolled over on him.... MORE

[glowing]

1. Shit happens! What do you suggest putting a bubble around the

damn kids. See nothing, do nothing, experience nothing. There are risks in life. A school bus crash could do something similar to the little tyke. Many sports can be dangerous, but kids still play. Get over it. We hate to see it, the pain the parents will feel, but they have to live too. Should I have never skied, snow boarded, surfed, used the waverunner, drive on one of the most dangerous roads in America every day with my family...

[renie408]

5. No, I think the only thing you should stay away from is a keyboard. n/t

[theHandpuppet]

6. I expect that children are given limits for a reason

And as adults we supposedly understand that not all activities are suited for kids. Otherwise our 8 year olds would be driving themselves to school. Even then they would have had training and had to have passed competency tests to get a license. An ATV is NOT a toy and parents need to be parents, not pals.

[CRF450]

66. So your saying that my parents were not being "parents"?

Because they bought me a dirtbike for my tenth birthday? Hell they got me a helmet, gloves and boots to go along with it. My brother who rides a motorcycle mostly taught me how to shift, and basically ride the bike. My parents made sure I wore my safety gear evertime I went out. I usually rode on the field paths and made a few little trails in the woods behind our yard.

Sure its not a toy but its fun as hell.

[1932]

17. No. But it would be helpful if society knew the dangers and if product designers took simple

steps to make their products safer when they become aware of the dangers.

I have a friend who is a lawyer whose firm worked for an insurance company and I remember her first year of practicing -- she said, 'never ride on an ATV and never go on amusement park rides.' She was shocked by the number of claims where the same facts and patterns were repeated over and over again.

With ATVS, it was always the torque sent the front wheels in the air and filliping back on the rider (but there was also the occasional claim where someone was decapitated because they ran into a clothes line, or something similar). I wonder if making ATVs front wheel drive would save a lot of people from serious injury?

[glowing]

45. We played on these growing up. Supervision is a must as well as

proper gear. I also rode horses (which bucked me off a time or two), bailed hay, rode snowmobiles, skied and a number of other things that these days would just set off the whole safety patrol police that pop up here. I also had an adult uncle who was flipped and suffered head trauma and dealt with that. There is a risk in living life. I would rather die living, than fearing and never have done.

[XOKCowboy]

59. You're going to take some heat but I totally agree...

My 2 brothers and I drove tractors and farm trucks before we were 10, we rode raw broke horses and worked cattle, fought range fires. We broke a few bones, got more than a few cuts and scrapes (My mom went through a lot of Mercurchrome) and nearly killed ourselves a few times. Yes now and again a kid would get seriously hurt or killed in our community and it was almost always because they did something stupid. Back then the news would be met with sympathy for the family's loss but also an admonition to us kids "See what happens when you don't watch what you're doing?"

There is a risk in living life. I would rather die living, than fearing and never have done. Very well said.

[1932]

71. What about correcting dangerous design flaws?

[XOKCowboy]

73. That's why there are no 3-wheelers anymore

What else is your point? Do today's 4 wheel drive ATVs have design flaws? Care to elaborate?

[CRF450]

75. I'm wondering the same thing

The death rate and injuries were so great on 3 wheelers because they tip over so damn easy, thats why they have been outlawed for 20 years. Theirs still some around though, and I have ridden a few, they are scary as hell to ride! Quads are also known for rollovers, but heres the thing. You have two different groups of 4 wheelers. You got utility ATV's and then the high performance sport ATV's. Utility ATV's are made for work type of use, pulling stuff and such. They may have good size engines, but their not geared for speed but pulling power, and they are very heavy weighing 500+ pounds. Sport ATV's are way lighter at under 400 pounds, they sit lower and they have a much wider wheel base that reduces the chance of a rollover.

I actually consider dirtbikes safer than quads, yet so many people dont feel that way because they "dont have to ballance":shrug: A quad can seriously hurt the rider in a rollover especially at high speeds, where as a bike would usually flip to another direction. But if hits the rider, he/she wont injured as much since they are so light now. Full size motorcross bikes weigh from 198 to 225 pounds.

[1932]

79. Well, it seems a lot of people are still getting injured other ways on them...

...so let's put our heads together...

[alittlelark]

61. I have kids of the same age... NO WAY would I let them ATV.

They have friends who do (2 broken shoulders; 1 broken collarbone). WTF - When we were kids we had dirtbikes... thin, unstable, and in tune w/ you..... These kids have "PROTECTION'and are therefore able to damage themselves in egregious ways.



NO THANK YOU !!!!

[Orsino]

80. False dichotomy.

No one suggested removing all safety equipment from automobiles, either.

[zanne]

2. I agree with you...

I understand that parents want their kids to have what their friends have, but I have a feeling that this is more than that. I've seen more than one parent on their kids' ATV, tearing up the turf in a public park. There are recreational vehicles for adults. That's fine; when they're 16, you have to let go a little bit. But young kids with ATVs? Nah.

[cali]

3. Was the kid alone?

I do think that kids under 16 shouldn't ride those things alone, and I oppose ATVs for other reasons (don't think they should be banned, though)

I live in an area where children commonly- very commonly- ride those things. Accidents on ATVs seem to happen here with less frequency than fatal accidents in cars driven by teens.

Also want to add that my son has been an extreme skier for years, and he was skiing glades and other off piste areas since he was 12 or so. Yeah, he always wears a helmet, but it's surely as risky as ATV riding.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Are there any fun experiences you'd discourage?

I ask that in all seriousness. Does anything go just as long as it's "fun"?

[Drifter]

4. A boy in our area ...

was killed on one last week. He was an experienced rider in a familiar area.
When I was young, my friends brother was killed on one (back when they made them with 3 wheels).

Accidents happen, and there is not much you can do about it. You won't be able to keep children off of them.

Cheers
Drifter

[theHandpuppet]

8. Sure you can keep them off ATVs

It's called parenting. The same thing that keeps your 8 year old from driving the family car.

[renie408]

10. Ding Ding Ding!! Right answer!!

Yes, there are risks in life. But growing up is about learning how to handle APPROPRIATE risks. We ride and train hunter horses as a family. My eleven year old daughter is active in training horses to WTC and jump, which could definitely be dangerous. BUT...she is always supervised, always wears proper safety gear and we always make sure that she rides horses within her abilities. We also have a four wheeler that we use around the farm as a sort of mini-tractor in places where the real tractor would be too big or too much. And the only time I let her drive that is to pull the manure spreader from stall to stall. The 16.1 hd TB she rides doesn't scare me at all. The four wheeler does.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. We kept our kids off of them

DH and I said "NO you can't ride them."

It really wasn't that hard. It's called parenting.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. I agree, but you have to realize, I wouldn't let me sons have skate boards either. eom

[Subdivisions]

9. Children don't belong on ATVs? Tell that

to the people of places like western Wyoming, where I used to live. ATVs are a part of the way of life in many places and children in these areas start riding before some of your kids started riding bicycles. If you try to legislate kids off of ATVs, you'll get the fight of your life.

[renie408]

11. How about educate instead of legislate? Get the message about the dangers of

ATV's out to people who might not otherwise take the risks seriously?

We have a farm and our ATV is part of how we run our farm. Both our kids drive it practically on a daily basis. But the youngest only in a limited manner and the oldest has had the dangers of rollovers drilled into his brain.

[Subdivisions]

14. Exactly. Farms and ranches are perfect examples of how

important ATVs are to the fabric of this nation.

[theHandpuppet]

15. So are cars and trucks

But at least we require people to be of a certain age, have proper training and obtain a license before they're allowed to use them. ATVs are NOT toys but way too many kids are given ATVs as playthings.

BTW, regarding your comment as to the importance of ATVs to "the fabric of the nation" -- a bit melodramatic, don't you think, or should I start singing the Star Spangled Banner with that?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

62. I would expect a response like that from you.

Your interpretation of my avatar is interesting, as well as your assumption that I'm a "Mr." I don't know what you're so furious about, but your foul tirades do nothing to promote your case.

[Subdivisions]

64. I'm not furious. Just responding to your Star-Spangled

smartass remark.

As for expecting such a response from me, I don't break on someone until they've asked for it. Go back and see for yourself.

The fact that you are female doesn't insulate you from getting bullshit called on a stupid comment -- ESPECIALLY when that comment is snarky.

[theHandpuppet]

68. Oh really?

Do you think my response calling your comment melodramatic was worthy of your foul-mouthed and foul-minded tirade, one which I interpreted as a thinly-veiled homophobic attack?

And I still find your comment, "ATVs are important to the fabric of this nation" so melodramatic as to the point of being silly. This is obviously a subject you feel passionately about but your rebuttals really have nothing to do with the real subject we're discussing, which is kids and ATVs. Not ATVs for farmers and ranchers or for doing chores, but 10 year old joyriders. So go ahead and launch another foul-mouthed response. I worked in a shipyard for over a decade, so I've heard it all.

[Subdivisions]

69. "...thinly-veiled homophobic attack."

Your thoughts, not mine!

"And I still find your comment, "ATVs are important to the fabric of this nation" so melodramatic as to the point of being silly. This is obviously a subject you feel passionately about but your rebuttals really have nothing to do with the real subject we're discussing, which is kids and ATVs. Not ATVs for farmers and ranchers or for doing chores, but 10 year old joyriders. So go ahead and launch another foul-mouthed response. I worked in a shipyard for over a decade, so I've heard it all."

Foul-mouthed? Look, you snarked me. It wasn't about the melodramatic part. It was the Star-Spangled Banner one that set me off. You conveniently missed that. And actually I'm not at all passionate about the subject of ATVs. I was merely commenting on what I have seen with my own two eyes. If you had given a respectful response to my post, we would never have gone down this road.

Ok, I give up. You win. ATVs are bad when not properly respected. I stand on my response to Post #11 by renie408:

"How about educate instead of legislate? Get the message about the dangers of ATV's out to people who might not otherwise take the risks seriously?"

And to back my comment, renie408 continues:

"We have a farm and our ATV is part of how we run our farm. Both our kids drive it practically on a daily basis. But the youngest only in a limited manner and the oldest has had the dangers of rollovers drilled into his brain."

I really do consider anyone who snarks me to be fair game. However, since you've taken exception to my "foul" language, I offer my sincere apologies. I hope we can be friends.

[theHandpuppet]

70. Of course we can be friends.

And I'm sure there are plenty of subjects on which we can agree or we wouldn't be here.

Peace!

:patriot:

[MadHound]

28. My happy ass!

Quite frankly if you're a farmer with an ATV, then you are a foolish farmer, compacting your soil needlessly, using a vehicle that is poorly designed for farm use, and polluting the ground, water and air on which your livelihood resides.

I farm myself, and have absolutely no use for an ATV. Geez, you people act like if there wasn't ATVs, there wouldn't be farms. Well guess what, this country's ag sector was built without ATVs and it can and does thrive without ATVs. But people have gotten so caught up in the fun of riding them that they've come to thing that they need them, which is an absolute crock.

Tell you what, if you need a vehicle to get some serious work done, get a tractor. If you need a vehicle to transport you from point A to point B, get a horse. They're easier on the enviroment and actually produce good things for the soil, unlike ATVs which just cause erosion and soil degradation.

[renie408]

36. It is a good thing you are farmer. Being full of shit must come in handy.

I live on 70 acres the entire perimeter of which is fenced. I keep 24 horses, 12 of which live in stalls which get cleaned every day. We use the four wheeler to pull the manure spreader and to check fence. I can carry fence tools and a couple of T-posts for quick repairs on the four wheeler easier than I can on a horse. I also use my four wheeler to spread fertilizer and lime (which takes forever, but we couldn't afford the PTO driven hopper). We use the tractor to drag the ring and fields, move round bales and grade the driveway. Our tractor is huge. It wouldn't work well for pulling the spreader because it would be awkward to get around the barn.

As for farmers not using ATV's, you are just full of shit. I live in the middle of serious boonieville farmland and every farmer I know keeps ATV's for getting around the farm and for small pulling jobs that a tractor is too much for. Who wants to haul the tractor out to move some fence posts or a couple of bales of hay?

[MadHound]

37. Hope you still enjoy your farm when your soil quality goes to hell

Quite frankly it sounds to me like you've got the wrong equipment for your farm, too big a tractor and not enough other equipment.

And just because lots of farmers do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. After all, how's all that pesticide and chemical fertilizer working out?

Quite frankly if you're using your ATV to haul a pocketful of fence tools and a couple of T posts, you're either one weakass farmer or a lazyass one:shrug: And using your ATV to spread manure is inefficient and costly for gas and time.

Perhaps you should rethink your farm equipment a bit there.

[renie408]

40. You don't know anything about farming, do you?

You are pulling this all out of your ass. Do you honestly think that the amount I am driving my four wheeler around my farm is compacting the soil in my pastures more than my HORSES do? And I am not lazy, you asshole. Who on fucking earth carts a bunch of t-posts AND fence repair equipment a couple of miles if they don't have to? Do have the slightest idea how long the perimeter fence on 70 acres is? And before you comment on whether or not I need a four wheeler, you jerk, try getting the tractor AND manure spreader around the shavings bin and into the 12 foot wide aisleway of my barn. The more you try to defend your judgmental comments, the more you show your ignorance. Oh, and how do you figure my four wheeler uses more gas and time than using the tractor? And I don't use pesticides, asswipe. Who mentioned pesticides anywhere? I spread lime and I do use fertilizer and it is working out just fine, thanks for asking. We use proper ph levels in our soil (the lime) and bushhogging to control weeds. Oh, that's the other thing we use the tractor for. The bushhog.

You don't know jack about farming. What, do you have a tenth of an acre in your backyard that you throw your coffee grounds on? I guess that makes you an expert on all methods of farming, including keeping livestock.

[MadHound]

42. Hahahahaha! I love the internet

People can make an assumption about others, without knowing a damn thing, and then wind up with egg all over their face. It is priceless.

Okey dokey honey child, let me tell you what I've got. For the home plot I have a twenty acre orchard and fruit farm. For the down the road plot, I've got a hundred acres that I either hay or run cattle on. I've grown up around farms and agriculture all my life and can tell you everything about your soil, what you need in it, what you have in it, and whether or not it is any good just from one good sample(yes, I've been trained in soil testing and sampling) Yes, ATVs compact the soil more than horses do because of their larger footprint and the way the wheel impacts the ground. Don't believe me, you can either go google it or talk to your county extension agent.

If you go back and look at your previous post, you will notice that you said you carted a couple of t-posts and the tools. Now you're upping it to several posts and tools. Either way, carting t-posts on an ATV is not the brightest thing to do, since there's no real easy or safe way to haul them. And like I said, if you're using it for doing just a couple of posts, then you're either weak or lazy. Or possibly foolish.:shrug:

The reason that I mentioned pesticides is to counter your claim that "every farmer is doing it" If you would read for comprehension, perhaps you would get that.

And again, from the sounds of it, you have the wrong equipment, specifically too large of a tractor. I can manuever mine around fine in the barn, and the center aisle is only ten feet wide. Of course I've got a little 25 horse New Holland. Speaking of tractors, yes, your ATV is cranking out more pollution than your tractor, especially if its a two cycle engine on that ATV. Hell, my tractor is putting out less emissions than the cars on the road, including hybrids, but that's because I run it on biodiesel, which is cheap too;) And since you are using the wrong machine for the job, it is going to take you longer. My neighbor spreads his manure with an ATV, and bitches about the time it takes, while I can spread it in about half the time since I have the right tool for the job.

Oh, and just to keep your farmer's creds, it's "brushhog", not "bushhog"

But hey, it's your farm to run into the dirt if you please. Just don't say that you weren't warned.

[renie408]

43. No, actually we have always called it 'bushhogging', you know, like the piece of equipment

named that. So does my hay guy and the guy I had to pay to do it last year because our bushhog blew it's gear box. Maybe its a regional thing.

Hey, go and god bless. I guess I am going to just have to continue to compact my soil. For the life of me, I can't figure out how the four wheeler does that more than a tractor or truck, but I am just going to have to take my chances.

Hey, I know I have completely pissed you off, but how is your hay this year? We have none, the hay guy has none and I can't find any from Virginia to Alabama. We are looking at feeding afalfa cubes and Dengie hay after about December when our hay runs out.

[MadHound]

44. Must be a dialect thing, here in Missouri its brushhog, like the piece of equipment

:shrug: One of those things.

And hey, you didn't piss me off, just one of those spirited debate things. Sometimes I just get carried away, sorry.

As far as hay goes, we're sitting OK for the winter, but then again most of our cattle's going to slaughter here in a month so we won't need much. We got a good first cut, but everything since then has been crap because the drought hit at the end of June and hasn't let up. Corn's gone to hell and back too, dry and a lot got blown down around here about a month ago, big storm. What really pissed me off was the big freeze back in April, killed off all my fruit tree blossoms, so no apples, pears or peaches this year(though I did get in blackberries and raspberries). That's why they say that a farmer is the biggest gambler around;)

I wish you luck in finding hay, I'd say come on out and get some of mine, but there's really none to spare around here either. Those alfalfa cubes are going to be expensive, sorry to hear that.

You take care of yourself out there in SC, and I hope you've got an easy row to hoe. Next time we'll have to be a bit more civil, God knows we farmers have to stick together. Peace:hi:

[riderinthestorm]

38. 40 horse farmer here, no ATV

I'm not trying to get into it with you cause I don't know your operation or your location but the ATV isn't the most efficient thing on a farm at. all. and they are really unsafe. For the record we train and compete in eventing at the highest levels and run events at our own farm (a seriously risky endeavor - for those of you who don't know what eventing is, it is the sport that Christopher Reeves was competing in when he was paralyzed) and even I think ATV's are too unsafe for this family.

We have a farm truck, a 50 hp John Deere, a 25 hp John Deere, a Gator and a golf cart (and misc. stuff like spreaders etc.) for dealing with chores, hauling, getting around, and maintenance work. We also have a couple of scooters. It wouldn't be pretty but we could do everything with the little John Deere if we had to get rid of everything else. I can't imagine trying to take fence repair materials on an ATV for example - 16' boards, fence posts, tamping bar, hammer, etc. etc. - it just doesn't seem practical (or ahem, safe).

One of our friends had her son killed when he took a header into a tree with his ATV. Perhaps because of that, noone I know in serious boonieville farmland around me has ATVs, or perhaps it's just cause they are too damn unsafe.

[renie408]

41. Ok, now that I am a little calmer...

I use a four wheeler because I can't get the tractor and spreader to make the turn behind the barn between the shavings bin and the fenceline. I am a 43 year old woman who maintains the farm (mostly) by herself. When I am finished with the barn a couple of days a week, I hook a little cart we have to the four wheeler, throw some posts in there and the fence tools and check the fenceline. We have a combination of humane and hotwire for the perimeter fencing everywhere but by the road, the house and the barn. A lot of it runs through the woods, where wood fencing is not so practical (way more expensive to replace when a tree comes down on it). I have been in the horse business for 33 years. I live in upstate SC and whether you believe it or not, nearly all the farmers I know use ATV's for getting around their farms. Some of these guys farm upwards of 10,000 acres. It isn't practical to use a tractor or truck all the time. In fact, I bought my four wheeler from the guy I get my hay from.

We have an F350 diesel extended cab truck, a big tractor (it's my husband's, I don't know what the hp is), the four wheeler and the little spreader. Of these things, the ATV works best for the spreader. I promise. And I don't turn my kids loose on it, but yeah, I do let my 16 year old son check fence for me sometimes. My 11 year old daughter will sometimes spread for me or pull the spreader from stall to stall.

It is ridiculous to say that farmers don't need ATV's or that they are 'compacting the soil' or that they use less gas than a tractor or truck or whatever. YOU don't use one. Fine. Don't assume that the way you do it is the only or best way.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

65. Oh yes, we struggled and starved out on the farm before ATVs were invented

:eyes:

Sorry, but I'm a farmer, have been to some extent all my life. I've been trained in soil control, soil quality, practice sustainable farming methods, and quite frankly, ATVs are far more hype than their worth. They compact the soil, lead to severe erosion, degredate stream banks and beds, cause ungodly pollution, and lead to death and disability. Oh, and having watched my farming neighbors struggle with their ATVs, they simply aren't the right piece of equipment for the vast majority of jobs.

And the arguement that "everybody's doing it" is a logical fallacy. Everyone sprayed chemicals on their croplands for years and decades and look where that has left us, sterile soil, increased water pollution and contaminants in our food. Many times it isn't a bright idea to follow the herd.

Oh, and as far as your little insult, it simply goes to show how intellectually void you are on this topic. Tell you what, perhaps you should call your county extension agent or DNR and talk to them. Education is a good thing, and having facts will mean that you won't have to grasp at insults to make your arguements.

[Subdivisions]

67. My happy ass! n/t

[ThomWV]

12. A local boy was killed on one not a mile from where I sit - let me tell you what happened

I live out in the country and every nice weekend we see hundreds of the damned things running around here.

Two years ago a boy was killed about a mile from here after what could only be described as a minor accident on one of the things. Two boys were riding the things on the back roads in this area and while coming down the road the lead vehicle hit a bump and was tossed off the roadway. The driver went into a barbed wire fence that ran parallel to the road that enclosed a small pen where a neighbor had kept some livestock. The boy's throat was slit by the wire even though he was not hurt badly otherwise. The lady who owned the house (a retired couple in their 60s) was on her porch when the accident happened. She later told us that the boy jumped right up after it happened and started running toward her house. He collapsed before finishing the 100 feet from the accident site to the house - he had already bled out that much. He died on the spot, 13 years old.

[renate]

29. oh God, that's so sad

That just breaks my heart... how scared he must have been. What a horrible shock--a nightmare really--for everyone there, and for his parents. :cry:

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. We had one who crushed his throat when he hit a wire that closed off the private road he'd

been riding on. He also managed to run away from the scene only to collapse a few minutes later. I think he was 11 or 12. :(

[JerseygirlCT]

13. I'm with you. Not a chance mine are allowed on those! nt

[Blue Diadem]

16. I don't like it either.

There are a lot of parents out there who put their children in risky situations for the sake of "fun". It's their choice.

There's been so many atv accidents around here this summer that it's hard to keep track anymore. Jut off the top of my head, there's the group of 3, 7 yr old and two tweenagers who were life flighted after their two atv's tumbled into a ditch..I heard the 7 yr old was so torn up his hip bones were exposed. There's the little girl who spent the summer in a wheel chair with broken legs and a broken arm. There's the 5-6 yr old child hospitalized with head injuries..2nd time for him..

It's not just kids either. Several years ago a woman was decapitated while riding one. She ran into a newly put up wire..luckily her child riding with her wasn't injured..at least not physically.

[Beausoir]

18. Nope. I love my children too much to endanger them on one of those stupid things.

[cali]

19. By your lights I must be

a lousy parent. By the time my son was 11 or 12, he was skiing glades, racing and skiing moguls. Is it as dangerous as riding an ATV?
Yep. And I wouldn't have denied him the experience for anything.

[Connonym]

20. I don't agree that it's the same level of danger

When you're skiing you don't have a heavy machine that can land on top of you and generally speaking skiing is done in a controlled environment with medical assistance available and some level of adult supervision. By comparison, riding an ATV is a free for all with the addition of heavy machinery and the ability to critically injure others. I don't know, statistics may prove me totally wrong but I have no problem with my kids skiing but no way are they going ATV-ing. This is ironic because just yesterday I was noticing the neighbor kid, all of about 5, riding a mini version of an ATV and I was shaking my head. We're so sedentary now that we don't even put kids on bikes or tricycles? I think that's just a damned shame and no wonder our health statistics are worse than other industrialized nations. We're just setting our kids up for a lifetime of health issues with the way we feed them and let them lead sedentary lives. Are we going to see the average lifespan declining? I suspect we will.

[momster]

21. Was He Taught to Ski?

Or did you just strap a pair to his feet and give him a push down a mountain? So many kids aren't taught anything about how to handle a large, heavy piece of equipment or are given a half hour lesson. ATV's are tippy and considering how much even older teens panic when a car (for instance) goes into a slide, I'm sure some 10 yr old doesn't know how to react when her over-powered ATV starts to tip, even if she is strong enough to put it back on true.

Mind you, my D has had a mini-bike since she was 11. She and her father fixed it up together and they ride in the mountains. But my dh is a fully qualified rider and a paranoid about safety. She never rides alone and never after dark. This doesn't mean she couldn't get hurt if she has a stupidity attack but at least she isn't riding anything that's going to get away from her.

[Beausoir]

26. Nope. I would never say you were a lousy parent.

My husband works in the ER. He sees firsthand what happens.

We have decided that the risks far outweigh any benefit...for OUR kids.

You get to make your own decisions for YOUR kids.

[NC_Nurse]

23. SAD, but true.

Many people think because they have 3 or 4 wheels that they are more stable than a mini-bike or dirt bike.
They may be at slow speeds, but once you start hauling ass there seems to be less difference.
I've took care of a kid who rolled one and it cut his pancreas in half. He was lucky to be alive.
Another kid in this area was decapitiated when he was flying down a back road and didn't see a chain across it.

I didn't allow donor-cycles or ATV's for my kids, they took it well since I have lots of horror stories. ;)

Education would probably be the best route. When we go to the beach and rent waverunners, they always make you watch a film about all the people
who've crashed them. It's pretty spooky, but makes the point. Maybe they could require it at ATV dealerships...just a thought.

[AnneD]

24. I am a Nurse......

and during my clinical, I was amazed and saddened by the high number of children in ortho and neuro that were victims of ATV accidents. Children paralyzed or in persistent vegetative comas as a result of ATV accidents (which the tax payer picked up costs after parents go through their resources). And these were the lucky kids. ATV's are unstable when driven off road and flip over to easily while on the road. On top of that, they are too large for younger kids to handle. To give a kid the keys to an ATV IS like giving them keys to a motor cycle or the family car. On top of that-children (esp teens) are not fully supervised while on these vehicles and can use them inappropriately.

If kids insist on going off road-get them a mountain bike. It is kinder to the environment, healthier for them, and less dangerous. Personally, I would like them banned for kids under 18. Adults have every right to do stupid things that put their life in danger. Hell, they drive motor cycles without helmets on highways just to prove Darwin's theory.

But kids should be protected at every reasonable opportunity until they have the maturity (we hope) to make appropriate decisions. This is not a question of freedoms, but of public health and safety. Just because you can doesn't mean you should and if parents lack the spine to say no, then it should be illegal for those under 18.

Death rates have go up 24% and that doesn't count the permanent injuries. They are just too unsafe. See this link for info.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/31/earlyshow/living/parenting/main3116736.shtml

[Colonel Bat Guano]

25. Some of you will laugh, but...

...don't put a kid on a Segway too early either.

I went on a rented Segway ride with my nine year old son. We both got the half hour instruction, and we seemed to be okay with it. But my son crashed twice -- once missing a turn and going into the bushes, with the Segway landing on top of him. Scary, but he was okay. He wanted to go back at that point, so we turned around -- and he crashed again, this time going off a paved trail and into a guard rail at 15+ mph. Hurt his leg and we gave up on the ride at that point, the rental guy came out to pick us up.

When he went off the trail the second time, he went right, "only" into concrete and metal, with light scrapes. If he went left, in fifteen feet he would have been in two lanes of busy traffic and almost certainly would have been hit by a car (or cars).

So jokes aside, oh yeah, you can fall off a Segway, and I don't think I'd recommend them for pre teens.

[AnneD]

27. I hadn't thought about it....

but I defiantly wouldn't put a kid on a Segway either. My daughter was 12 when I finally relented and let her have a skateboard. She went to a safety workshop and wore padding and a helmet. She could skate in certain areas and had supervision until she could skate well and knew the rules. She got fairly good at it but outgrew it eventually.

And speaking of outgrowing-you have to watch out for those growing bones and muscles. Thanks for the heads up. I don't think I'd want a Segway for myself either.

I enjoy rock climbing and other things but I can evaluate my abilities and the risk. Kids do not always exercise good judgment 'cause they are kids.

[renate]

30. I'm so paranoid I won't let my kids use Heelies

They look so safe, and SO many kids have them, but just Google "heelies" and "safety" and you'll see what I mean. (The main problems seem to be 1) tipping backwards and being unable to catch yourself , because of the way the shoe is designed of course, and 2) a rock getting stuck in the wheel and the wheel suddenly stops on a dime while the rest of the kid keeps on going forward--for a split second, anyway. The tipping over backwards is the head-injuries part that scares me; I know kids can fall down forwards and break an arm just like they can on a bike or skateboard.)

I would let them use Heelies if they wore a helmet, but that's not cool, even though they don't have issues with wearing a helmet when they rollerblade or ride a bike. So, no Heelies. BOY OH BOY have we had some fun discussions about that. But signing up for parenting means signing up for being unpopular sometimes. :)

[AlCzervik]

33. omg i fing hate those things! My daughter wanted so i told "You will wear a helmet with them"

needless to say she no longer wanted heelies.

[MadHound]

32. ATVs are utterly useless vehicles that are a threat to the enviroment as well

The compact soil, promote erosion, tear up streams, pollute the air, and make too much noise. Being a farmer, I find it ridiculous that so many of my fellow farmers insist on using these things when they're obviously not the right tool for the job. Yet as one of my neighbors says, they're more fun than a tractor, yet more impractical too.

I've got a neighbor whose set up his own little ATV course for him, the kids and grandkids to ride around on. Besides breaking the peace and quiet of the country, he's ruining his soil(and possibly mine quite soon, thanks to erosion) and pissing of his neighbors on all sides, he also allows his kids and grandkids to ride improperly and unsafely. Too many times have I seen small kids, seven or eight, riding an ATV to big for them, without a helmet, sometimes carrying a three year old sibling along for the ride.

I hate the damn things and simply wish they would disappear. Sadly, they seem to be the next macho toy for mindless pleasure.

[malakai2]

72. Well...

The thing is that for some uses, they are a better option than any other tool. If I couldn't use one for my job (prairie dog conservation work), I'd be unable to do my job...a horse wouldn't work (long hours, equipment likely to spook horses, etc.), a truck would be unable to negotiate the terrain, and covering thousands of acres on any given day on foot is an impossibility. I can easily imagine, given the lack of proper roads in many areas near where I live, that a lot of ranchers would be unable to support their lifestyle in today's market without ATVs. Get out near the 100th meridian and westward, and the whole tractor/horse/ATV equation is not as it would be further east...not that intensive agriculture has any business on the plains west of the 100th, but that's the way the world is.

They do compact the soil to an extent, although to just what extent and how damaging it really is depends where you are. Riding an ATV over beach dune vegetation in Florida will scar the dune for decades, riding over portions of the Great Plains that were once home to millions of 2000 pound bison and are currently home to millions of 1500 pound cattle is a bit less of a problem. Though within the plains, riding one along a wet creek bottom like a lot of lazy ass hunters do at the start of deer season can cause significantly more problems than ranchers or wildlife managers riding them along upland fencelines and over prairie dog towns or just plain open range. Depends on the soil type, vegetation associations, how wet the ground is at the time, and a few other factors. Topography matters, as does whether or not the rider adheres to designated trails. I've seen places where people have driven off trails in the Black Hills, across highly erosive slopes that were closed to ATVs specifically because they were so potentially erosive, creating illegal trails that then erode and damage other resources. Go 50 miles east onto the grassland, where the topography is relatively flat and not so erosive, and there aren't any designated trails except in the proposed wilderness areas...and erosion from ATV use isn't a problem.

I'm not wild about kids riding them, anyone who can't comfortably reach and operate all the controls quickly and reflexively has no business using an ATV. That said, having spent many long days in the field over the past three years with many adults of all ATV skill levels, I'm most worried about 1)speed freaks, 2)highly experienced individuals, and 3)highly inexperienced individuals, in that order, with adolescents lumped into the appropriate category alongside adults. Some of the individuals I've worked with thought it was cute to try and break 60 mph on runs to and from worksites through tall grass...badger holes, sinkholes, abandoned masses of barbed wire, and all sorts of other nasty surprises notwithstanding. Others felt comfortable enough with their machines to attempt to scale hills at unsafe angles, swing the rear end around wildly to make ridiculously tight turns, straddle deeply rutted two-track at speed, and a lot of other activities bred of overconfidence, such that I'm amazed I have yet to fill out police and work reports detailing how so-and-so ended up pinned under his ATV. The inexperienced drivers, those with a healthy fear of what ATV mistakes can do to their health, are the ones who usually drive the way they are supposed to.

As it happens, a few of the individuals I've worked with HAVE had to deal with ATV-related deaths of coworkers at their home offices, with most of those deaths involving the speedy and overconfident drivers. Some hit cattle grates at speeds well in excess of what was reasonable for the conditions and lost control, others attempted to cross or climb hills that were too steep and rolled the machines onto themselves, that sort of thing. Only one of them had a novice death, where the woman did almost everything right...had a helmet on, was driving at a speed appropriate for her skill level...but she didn't know how to kick away from an ATV that was tipping. Hard to teach that adequately in ATV safety classes. When her machine had a mechanical failure going down a hill and accelerated out of control, she hit the brake hard and flipped forward, and died when she kissed a rock.

I suppose if the people who are using these things strictly for recreation had to deal personally with incidents like those, or be responsible for the safety of the people with them in field conditions, they'd see these machines as tools for specific purposes rather than toys. Or maybe that's just me, after riding around on ATVs for 8 or 10 hours a day, months at a stretch, I don't see how anyone could consider riding them for the sake of riding them to be fun. But then that seems to be how most of the deaths and injuries happen...people try to make riding them fun, by going fast, trying to do stunts, pushing beyond their skillset. I wonder if a strict licensing program, with a mandatory safety course, to be passed on a recurring basis, might not be a bad idea? That's how my agency does it (or rather, is supposed to do it...budget cuts mean cut corners), seems to drive the lesson home for a fair number of the people I work with.

[guitar man]

34. The problem I see around here

is the kids riding the wrong machine. I came up riding dirt bikes and later small street bikes. The limitation was, especially with a small kid like I was, the size of the bike I could physically hold up, touch the ground on and pick up off the ground. Dad's rule was, if I couldn't pick the bike up off the ground and then kick start it, I wasn't ready to ride it yet.

Not so with 4 wheel electric start ATVs. Kids can get on a much bigger and more powerful machine than they should ever be riding. Parents need to be aware and educated about the machinery they turn their kids loose with.

A 12 year old should be riding a machine like this:

http://powersports.honda.com/atvs/sport/model.asp?ModelName=TRX90EX&ModelYear=2008&ModelId=TRX90EX8

Not like these:

http://powersports.honda.com/atvs/sport/model.asp?ModelName=TRX700XX&ModelYear=2008&ModelId=TRX700XX8


http://powersports.honda.com/atvs/utility/model.asp?ModelName=FourTrax+Rincon+GPScape&ModelYear=2008&ModelId=TRX680FGA8

The article didn't say, but I'd be curious to know what machine he was riding.

[CRF450]

48. I agree for the most part but...

12 years get borderline too big for those TRX90's. And alot times its the same deal with dirtbikes about how they do the age ratings. They dont recommend full size dirtbikes for teens under 16 but their are ALOT that can handle one just fine. Which is why I agree your logic on that. If he can pick it up and start it and reach the ground then he is ready to ride it.

[hogwyld]

35. These damn things should be outright banned!

They have no practicle purpose other than destroying the environment, and using up natural resources. A horse can go a hell of a lot more places than these can.
Ranks right up there with my hatred of SUV's. Remember, they are kids, and they need to be able to achieve adulthood safely.

[MissB]

39. I've posted this before. Our newspaper ran a four part series. Worth the read.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianatv/

[Blue Diadem]

51. Thanks missb, that's an excellent series. n/t

[Beausoir]

53. That is a very sad read. Thank you for posting it.

[Bigmack]

46. "Buy your kid a ATV for his birthday."

His LAST birthday.

We winter in the desert in SoCal, and the Ocotillo Wells Off-Road Vehicle area is nearby. The life-flights and ambo calls at that place are constant on weekends. Doesn't that cost society... all of us... something?

My favorite story was on the TV news, so I don't have a link, but it seems a little kid about 6 was brought in to the ER after an ATV accident.

The staff was curious about the tape all over his hands/gloves. The parents said....

wait for it....

"He's so small his hands kept losing their grip on the controls, so we taped his hands onto the handle bars."

Nature... just trying to cull the herd.

[CRF450]

47. Some of yaw need to get a clue.

Offroading is a lifestyle many such as myself participate in. Dirtbiking for me is an awsome and fun sport and I have invloved in it since 10 years old and I wont ever give it up. My parents made sure I wear basic gear such as a helmet, glove, boots. Most professional motorcross riders you see have been riding dirtbikes and quads since 4 or 5 years old. Most of these accidents happen because parents just dont look after those kids much and dont make them wear a helmet atleast.

Letting a 6 year old ride an ATV shouldn't be much concern as long as they wear the proper safety gear, and taught to operate to vehicle properly under parental supervision.

Their are many risks in the sport, and thats how life is in general. Shit happens and you move on.

[spoony]

81. "you move on"

Unless your kid dies. Then they don't move on; they don't move at all.

And that helmet, yeah that'll help preserve the brain whilst the ATV crushes the rest of the body in a rollover.

[qdemn7]

49. The Horror!!

High School 1971-1975

I attended South San Antonio High School from August 1971 to May 1975. I was in Army JROTC all 4 years, We had an honest-to-god 50 ft Small Bore Rifle ( 22 caliber ) range in the ROTC department on the 2nd floor of our school. We had a Rifle Team that was outstanding. My Sophomore year, ROTC admitted females. Several women were always on the team and they were all SUPERIOR shots. One classmate of mine named Rosemary had every damn SBR medal the NRA ever issued. Up to and including Distinguished Expert. In addition she had enough trophies to put any bowler to shame. She was such a better shot than me it was pathetic. (I was not on the team.)

Not ONCE did we ever have an accident. NEVER. Hearing protection was mandatory. In addition we never had any gun-phobic adults claiming the school was teaching children to kill or guns were the spawn of Satan.

In addition we drilled with real M-14 rifles assault rifles. All these things needed was a firing pin inserted to make them fully functional. The barrels were not blocked. The did have the external full-auto selector switch removed, however. I got to fire them (semi-auto) at a summer camp in 1972.

The viewpoint espoused by some here is symptomatic of just how far this society has turned into a nation of phobic entities afraid of damn near anyone and everything.

[CRF450]

50. And let me say this

3 years ago one boy was hit by a car while riding his dirtbike across the road. Soon after one was seriously injured because he was riding his dirtbike on the road. The last on happend over a quarter mile from my house, and one who was killed was 3 miles away.

I'll say again I love offroading in general but seing kids riding up and down the road all the time a 4 wheeler or dirtibke pisses me off to no end!!

[kitty1]

52. We had a recent tragic incident in my province involving a child

driving an ATV on a farm road near his home in rural Manitoba. The child was only about 9 years old at the time. The quad rolled over some uneven ground. He died in his father's arms.
His father, a very religious man stated that he was happy his child knew Jesus and was with him in heaven.
This father is still of the opinion though that children shouldn't be prohibited from driving ATVs.
Currently, anyone 14 years old and under can ride an ATV in the province, as long as there is supervision and the driver remains on private property.
It looks like the government here is now seriously considering making amendments about children driving ATV's and regulations with that.

[WritersBlock]

56. This hits close to home for me.

One member of our family is permanently and severely disabled due to a head injury from a 3-wheeler accident.

Another is lying in her grave because of a 4-wheeler accident.

I hate the fucking things.

[Subdivisions]

57. I am very sorry to hear that. n/t

[WritersBlock]

58. Thank you. n/t

[tabasco]

60. I used to ride dirt bikes when I was that age.

I would let my kid ride a dirt bike if I taught him/her how to ride and I was with them. Maybe 14 and above I would let them ride alone. I would just make sure they weren't bothering anybody. I was never supervised when I was riding dirt bikes as a youngster but I am just lucky I didn't get paralyzed.

[JCMach1]

74. Adults Don't Belong on Motorcycles (How Many People Have to Die)

My cousin's wife died horrifically last Summer in a freak accident.

it's not just ATV's.

We either have to swallow the risk in balance with the fun, or rationally come to understand our society constantly papers over and represses the dangers.

[CRF450]

76. So should we ban cars in general?

[JCMach1]

77. you are presenting that as a bad thing... imagine if the US had organized the economy

around trains, trams, and other mass transit?

Cities in the US would be very clean, green, and more pleasant places to visit.

[CRF450]

78. Yes and no

Cars have always been a part our sifestyle and it will remain that way a long time. And because of how widespread communities are it wouldn't be practicle at all to wait for a bus out in the country. Motorcycle riding is also a lifestyle to many and a hobby to others. For me its a lifestyle since I have been into dirtbiking since 10 years old, I am about to get my first motorcycle too, most likely a 600cc sportbike.