answer me this:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

The surge was intended to provide political growth and stability in Iraq.
Every expert has said the political situation has gotten much worse.
Now, every GOP congresscritter is saying "WAIT FOR A MILITARY GENERAL, in control of the US armed forces, TO MOUTH THE WHITE HOUSE WORDS, before we tell you that the Military aspect of the surge is working.

Political gains vs. Military result

OF COURSE a high tech army will gain territory against even an insurgent led civil war. Temporarily. But that was not the goal.

So, the question is, WHY ARE THE DEMOCRATS in Congress putting up with this shit? where are our speach-writers and talking heads? WHy are they failing to dissect this issue and put it in terms simple enough for even the 28% to understand? All this crap about metrics, surges, and crap, is, in fact, crap. Our leaders are falling down on the job again. It is though they want to fail and want to give Team Bush free rein on Iraq and Iran.

[cali]

1. Agreed, they need to be hammering the same points:

The utter shambles of the Iraqi gov't
The failure of the Iraqi National Police Force
The number of refugees
The deplorable state of Iraqi infrastructure

[cali]

2. self-delete- dupe

[radfringe]

3. catch-22 situation

what needs to be done won't be done because there is not enough votes

the only way to get votes is to apply pressure on congress, but pressure won't be applied because there are not enough votes

then there's the fear factor - bush/cheney use fear to shove their agenda through congress

many fear "losing" congress/presidency in 2008 so they don't want to rock the boat by supporting something like impeachment...

as for me - I've been saying it for a long long time - if the dems don't show some balls, if they don't stand up for what they believe and do it now - then how do I know they will have balls and stand up in the future?

[izzie]

4. I think you will find they are even as the few that love this war get

more play. The man in the WH always does. The Gen. will go with Bush or some thing he can use. After all he is a Gen. I never thought Walker was a Dem. but since he did not say what was wanted by the GOP he seems to have turned out to be a liberal. Your either with us or a lover of terrorists it seems. That never changes with these WH people and their backers. It is like talking to a wall. Heck most are still fighting the Vietnam war and saying us liberal lost it, as if the country of Vietnam had not one thing in the mix.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. yeah, I heard on cspan that

that democrat party President JOHNSON pulled the troops out of viet nam. I was wondering what happened to Nixon, anyway.

[izzie]

8. It is like the GOP has lost any thoughts of what went on in Vietnam

I guess it must be the liberals fault as they were so busy spitting on every on. They just could not give up that sport to fight any more. Left all those silver spoon boys home to party on as the Dem. lost their war. It is a strange history to hear them. One almost forgets that the country side was not ever for us in the first place and wanted all over seas powers to just get the hell out of their country which the Fr. found out before us and told us about but why would be hear them. We knew better. I believe also that Nixon and Ford took the army out of the country. Johnson was just lost on it and left for Texas. Oh well what can one do. They get up in the House and even say some pretty wild things about Vietnam and now it will be Iraq. I do not get this war thing with this GOP at all, My whole family were in the GOP and war to them was a no no. It was a waste of men, money and to build things to blow up was down right foolish. I grew up thinking the Dem. were the party that took us to war in-fact.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. one thing that both Nixon and Johnson had in common

was that they both hated the number of US dead, and took it personally. Johnson had nightmares, Nixon drank heavily. Johnson had some camelot aides, nixon had kissenger, telling them it was OK, but necessary.

Today's PResident sheds croc tears without the slightest bit of empathy or concern. He is a sick person.

[Orsino]

6. Why do the Dems put up with it?

Because, by and large, they are as insulated from the consequences of their actions as are the GOP. there are many exceptions, but *'s war hasn't yet bubbled up into Congress to a great extent.

Until Congress looks like us, they won't act in our interests.

[spanone]

7. NO political gains....we were gamed again...the surge is bullshit.

a way to keep feeding the military industrial complex

[sandnsea]

9. All of them aren't

But the media is only reporting on the usual suspects, and ignoring those who have already said what you said and, I would add, have told us this propaganda push was going to happen.

The question is, why is everybody listening to the White House instead of our own Democrats?

[lonestarnot]

11. Because we are still surging?

:shrug: 12-13 billion a week and every day more loss of humanity.