On poverty's front line; Poverty is spreading, new census figures show.

[Bluebear]

Cleveland Plain Dealer, 09/06/07

Ohio's poverty crisis likely will draw increased attention in the months ahead. Policy analysts, academics and elected officials all express alarm at a spreading crippler.

Urban poverty, long associated with Cleveland and Youngstown, is mushrooming in small and midsize cities like Canton, Lorain and even Columbus, a recent census report shows.

While experts study the problem, some are living it. They work at homeless shelters, food pantries and crisis centers. They are front-line poverty fighters, local folks who saw the grim trend before the government reported it....

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118906964530510.xml&coll=2

Story continues:
http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118906963830510.xml&coll=2

[EFerrari]

1. Bookmarking for later. Thank you, Bluebear.

:hi:

[Bluebear]

2. Bridges tumbling, people losing homes, a national debt our grandkids will pay...

thank you GOP.

[EFerrari]

4. A million Iraqis killed, a million displaced, al Qaida recruitment up

nukes being flown over American cities.

Thanks, GOP!

[ThomWV]

3. And don't forget Rural poverty.

People living in 3rd owner trailers that should have burned to the ground two owners back, what small manufacturing jobs there used to be are long gone. Driving a car with one of those little teeny skinny spare tires as a permanent front wheel, laying out drunk half the day because there's nothing else to do.

[EFerrari]

5. I hope this is our bottom.

:scared:

[Megahurtz]

29. Wow.

A side of life that many do not realize exists.

[sandnsea]

36. The new tin shack

Around here, a 1974 single wide on a lot can go for nearly $100,000, a 1/2 acre will be over that. Crazy.

[lovuian]

6. Depression

its going to be very ugly

[flashl]

7. Ohio's poverty in 2004 plus favorable Kerry exit polls is why high Republican vote was STRANGE n/t

[prolesunited]

43. Strange?

Don't you really mean the election was rigged in Ohio just like it was in Florida in 2000?

[ProgressiveEconomist]

8. Here's a URL w the best analysis I've seen of the national poverty rate, "spun" by the WH,

Fox "News", the WSJ, and others to credit Dubya for a decline in the national poverty rate, from 12.6 percent in 2005 to 12.3 percent in 2006.

See http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/08/poverty_statement.html .

What the Republican spinners fail to mention is that the poverty rate still remains 9 percent HIGHER than the 11.3 percent to which it had steadily declined until Dubya took office. We have just made up a tiny portion of the historic progress that Dubya's social policies decisively reversed. Also, only the elderly show statistically significant declines in poverty rates from 2005 to 2006; the poverty rate remains where it was the year before for children and non-elderly adults.

IMO, since Social Security is the most effective anti-poverty program we have, it is not surprising that the elderly poverty rate has declined as the Baby Boom bulge in the age distribution starts gaining massive eligibility for Social Security retirement benefits! For the aging of the population, the WH can claim absolutely NO credit.

[bobbolink]

13. Yet, there are increasing numbers of homeless older women.

Yes, Social Security is nice, and must be preserved.

BUT... the amount of money isn't enough to afford a market-rate rent.

[knitter4democracy]

22. And there are long Section 8 waiting lists in many areas.

Michigan's already in a depression, and Ohio probably is, too. Our numbers are the same or worse than during the Great Depression. Bush's plan is just to keep lying and making people feel isolated, like they're the only ones losing their jobs and homes.

[bobbolink]

34. Worse than that -- many have ended waiting lists!!

There's no hope of even beginning to house those on the lists, so they don't spend money or time on maintaining a list.

When Sapphire Blue first posted the info about Housing Trust Fund, HR2895 sponsored by Barney Frank, it had the numbers of people needing housing as opposed to the number of available housing units. You can guess--- there is a HUGE imbalance!

Yet, where is the concern?

Where is the interest on DU in pushing for HR2895?

I've posted about it many times since, and it sinks like a rock.

:cry:

edited to add the numbers I finally found:

Nationwide there are only 6.2
million homes with rents that are affordable for the 9 million
extremely low-income renters, those earning less than 30 percent of an
area's median income. This translates into a shortage of 2.8 million
homes.

[knitter4democracy]

35. That's horrible.

When we were first married, our first year was in this slum-lord run place, a basement apartment. Our families helped us make it passable, though we did insist on the landlord replacing the cat-peed-on carpet, much to his dismay. My mom painted the whole place a brighter white, as well as the bars, Hubby redid every single outlet (and fixed the ones that didn't work), Hubby's grandpa retiled the kitched while MIL and I redid the inside of the cabinets. I spent days cleaning that place. The rent was the most we could afford that year, and money was tight because of it. Thank God we didn't have a car payment that year, or we wouldn't have been able to afford the rent.

It disgusts me that we can't fix this, that we choose not to fix this. We had family to help--not everyone does.

[bobbolink]

38. If you did all those fix-it things in a Section 8, you would be evicted!

You're not allowed to improve Section 8 apartments.

Really.

You know, I'm not so sure that it's bad for young couples to spend a year or two in run-down apartments. Having some real-life experience with what others live with isn't always bad. Especially professional people---adding some reality to those they may later be dealing with.

What would be really bad is if it endangered your health, which so many Section 8 apartments do, and there is NO way to get that to change. Nor is there any recourse for abuse that takes place. I know....I witnessed an assistant manager physically abusing an elderly woman, and there was NOTHING that could be done. As the one compassionate person I found said, "He's an equal opportunity abuser, and there's nothing that can be done. If he was abusing one group and not another, we could get him then."

You wouldn't be able to insist a Section 8 landlord replace a peed-on carpet. There is just NO recourse!

"It disgusts me that we can't fix this, that we choose not to fix this."

Yes, that's why I'm so very upset with "liberals". They COULD, but it isn't important. I can't even get people to commit a few minutes to the Housing Trust Fund issue! :cry:

I'm one of those with no family. Believe me, with *anything* -- doctors, legal issues, anything at all, without family, you are nobody and dismissed.

[Odin2005]

40. WHAAAAAAT? that's fucking absurd!

:grr:

[bobbolink]

46. Of course it's absurd, but it's in the lease agreement you sign for Section 8.

It's also MORE absurd that so many Section 8 tenants are consigned to abuse, with no recourse.

[knitter4democracy]

41. Wrong on a million levels.

People should live in safe housing. Mold is not okay (why we moved out of that apartment at the end of the year), ruined carpets are not okay, and anything unsafe is not okay--especially if public funds are helping out. Those landlords have the means to fix it.

Housing's a huge issue, and we should fight more for it, especially after Katrina.

[bobbolink]

47. Excuse me? You're saying I'm wrong?

Have you seen the form you MUST sign before moving into a Section 8 apartment?

[knitter4democracy]

52. No, no, no! I'm saying the policy is wrong.

So very morally wrong on a million moral levels. I'm sure you're right--I looked at a Section 8 lease once, but it was a long time ago, and I don't remember it well. I remember it was more complicated than my dad's rentals' leases.

[bobbolink]

55. Thanks for clarifying. You had me terminally confuddled. ^_^

Yes, the Section 8 leases are complicated -- they leave plenty of opportunity for evicting someone who is a bit too "mouthy". In other words, if a tenant decides to try to fight some of the unreasonable and abusive policies, there are built in ways to get 'em out, even if they have been very good tenants.

I recently saw this in action, and it's really ugly.

Also, the threat of eviction is constantly over the heads of residents, to keep them in line.

Yeah, makes daily living so wunnerful.

[Odin2005]

39. I waited over a year and a half to get Section 8 rental assistance.

the length of the waiting lists is just criminal.

[knitter4democracy]

42. My aunt moved before she got one.

It was something like four years. Um, yeah, that's helpful. :eyes: Seriously--how are people supposed to live like that? Good thing she could leave that job and move where she wanted to live, but not everyone's that lucky.

[bobbolink]

49. How many DIE in the waiting process???

Yet, it's not important enough to track, so we don't even have a guess at the number of deaths.

So, what are we going to do about it?

[knitter4democracy]

53. I know our city's talking about how to fix it.

Me, I'd love to have the city take over all the abandoned houses in town, the crack dens and such, and bulldoze them, clean up the site, and build a new house there that's a rental for ten years and then goes up for the option to buy. I don't think they'd do it with their crappy budget, but I can dream.

[bobbolink]

54. Please see this post!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1776002&mesg_id=1776002

"then goes up for the option to buy"

But, that would only be available to those who have the money! Poor folk can't *ever* buy a house now!

Do you realize that I'm waaaay to poor (don't even have half the required amount!!) to get a habitat house?! Yet, that's all that so many people think about!

Also, I had a neighbor would could have *just* afforded the $400 a month for a habitat house, but... being 70 and in poor health, could NEVER have put in the required 500 hours! Yet, that's seen as the be-all and end-all.

Those of us who are on the bottom are up shit creek!

[bobbolink]

48. If you read #34, you see that many now are even CLOSED.

So, what are we going to do about it??

[Hydra]

9. I must admit

I will be evilly pleased when most people are down here at the bottom with me.

All of my advocacy against kidnapping, poverty, injustice and hunger got blank looks from most of the people I talked to. "You mean that happens here? Preposterous!" and "Well, it's their fault for living in that area, not having better income, being lazy or ignorant, etc."

I love the way reality hits with a solid blunt object.

[bobbolink]

11. I'm with you on that one, Hydra! We've been swept under the rug for waaay too long,

and that includes by so many liberals and progressives and Dems who say they care. I know well those blank looks you mention. :mad:

I, also, came to the conclusion that not until most people are in our shoes will anything change. And by that time, it could very well be too late. Oh wellllllllll.....

I used to think that a strong middle class was very important to Democracy. Not any more. What I see is people getting fat and happy and not giving a rip about others.

So, welcome to the bottom to all of 'em!

[Hydra]

14. Here's what I took away from my advocacy

People don't REALLY mind what's going on. They make polite noises of distress when the subject of white slavery comes up, or starving children, or working poor. The wisest thing I've heard lately was this:

The lower class wants everyone to be equal
The middle class wants what the upper class has
the upper class wants to keep what they have and keep the other two groups out

If the middle class has to die to destroy this culture of "privilege", so be it. Maybe then they'll "get it."

[bobbolink]

15. "Polite noises" about sums it up. But, we've made it easy to be ignored.

We haven't come together and interrupted peoples' lives in any way.

We haven't messed up traffic.

We haven't MADE people sit up and take notice.

We haven't nailed our 95 complaints to church doors.

We've complied by quietly dying, one by one, so as not to disturb anyone.


We need to get rastier! :hi:




We've also fought each other, trying to make ourselves feel safer by cosying up to power.

Nothing will change until/unless we come together and fight together to MAKE it change!


Oh, and as far as what you wrote about the muddleclass..... you notice all the people rushing to post on this thread...

:(

[Hydra]

17. Let them have their illusion

We don't have to scream, and we know how to survive on very little.

That will all be ending shortly.

We can hope that we learn our lesson for a generation or so and keep the Rothchilds and the rockefellers out of our economy.

[bobbolink]

18. Some of us AREN'T surviving.

But, given that it's not important to track the deaths from poverty (and that includes how many people died because of Clinton's ending welfare!), we can't even point to the numbers.

"We don't have to scream"

Well, then, I guess the suffering and deaths will continue....

[Hydra]

19. I understand what you are suggesting

But honestly, they don't care.

We could die in their churches, and it wouldn't bother them, once we were carried out.

They won't care until they are in the same boat as us. As I said(though not well), they will all be joining us soon. This mortgage crisis will make a VERY large number of people homeless and jobless.

Maybe then they will properly appreciate the problem we have.

[bobbolink]

20. I've been known to say to pastors, "We could die on your church steps, and

you'd just step over our bodies and keep going, not missing a beat."

Yeah, I DID TOO say it. :)

There are a few who do care, but....

What pains me the most is the lack of concern and willingness to take action on the part of liberals. :puke:

Again, I say, bring it on......

Let 'em walk in our shoes... the sooner, the better....

[Hydra]

21. It's the cultural myth

that another DUer kindly pointed out to me.

"If you're poor in America, it's your fault."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1745555&mesg_id=1745629

This is the "land of opportunity" and a place where "if you work hard and follow the rules, you can succeed"

Given that mistaken perception, is it a surprise that people would gladly ignore our bodies if we died in public places?

As I said, reality is a b****, and doesn't listen well when argued with by pompous fools that thought "it couldn't happen to them"

[bobbolink]

23. "The Just World Myth".... a piece quoted by undergroundpanther

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/justworld.html

The need to see victims as the recipients of their just deserts can be explained by what psychologists call the Just World Hypothesis. According to the hypothesis, people have a strong desire or need to believe that the world is an orderly, predictable, and just place, where people get what they deserve. Such a belief plays an important function in our lives since in order to plan our lives or achieve our goals we need to assume that our actions will have predictable consequences. Moreover, when we encounter evidence suggesting that the world is not just, we quickly act to restore justice by helping the victim or we persuade ourselves that no injustice has occurred.

This is a great piece, and is often quoted by DU's undergroundpanther.

As panther said to me just yesterday, it's time to scare the "normals". :hi:

Sorry, the I couldn't get the link you posted.

[Hydra]

25. Link fixed

thanks for pointing it out. UndergroundPanther has many good points, but I object to the sociopath argument he/she frequently uses. That's just lazy thinking, since most people easily disregard the value of other people's lives.

[bobbolink]

33. I'm not willing to get into an argument on the "value" of another poor person's assertions.

That is one of the things I was talking about---using our energy to fight each other.

I'm not willing to take part in that.

When you disagree with someone who is on your side, you can do it with sensitivity and courtesy.

[Megahurtz]

30. I know what you mean. n/t

[coco77]

10. And the media will show a blip...

[bobbolink]

12. thank you, Bluebear! Time again to call/write about HR2895!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2895

Sponsor: Rep. Barney Frank National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act of 2007
To establish the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund in the Treasury of the United States to provide for the construction, rehabilitation, and preservation of decent, safe, and affordable housing for low-income families.

Here's the list of co-sponsors..... If your Rep is on the list (and some are Rs) please write/call and thank him/her. If NOT on the list, please write/call and ask them to sign on as co-sponsor. THEN... spread this to everyone you know! Thanks!

edited for an update of co-sponsors:

Rep Abercrombie, Neil (HI-1] - 7/18/2007
Rep Allen, Thomas H. (ME-1] - 8/2/2007
Rep Baldwin, Tammy (WI-2] - 7/27/2007
Rep Barrow, John (GA-12] - 7/27/2007
Rep Blumenauer, Earl (OR-3] - 7/18/2007
Rep Capps, Lois (CA-23] - 9/4/2007
Rep Capuano, Michael E. (MA-8] - 9/4/2007
Rep Carson, Julia (IN-7] - 9/4/2007
Rep Castor, Kathy (FL-11] - 7/27/2007
Rep Clarke, Yvette D. (NY-11] - 9/4/2007
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy (MO-1] - 6/28/2007
Rep Cleaver, Emanuel (MO-5] - 7/19/2007
Rep Cohen, Steve (TN-9] - 9/4/2007
Rep Courtney, Joe (CT-2] - 9/4/2007
Rep Crowley, Joseph (NY-7] - 9/4/2007
Rep Davis, Susan A. (CA-53] - 9/4/2007
Rep Delahunt, William D. (MA-10] - 9/4/2007
Rep Dent, Charles W. (PA-15] - 6/28/2007
Rep Ellison, Keith (MN-5] - 7/19/2007
Rep Emanuel, Rahm (IL-5] - 7/18/2007
Rep Emerson, Jo Ann (MO-8] - 7/27/2007
Rep English, Phil (PA-3] - 6/28/2007
Rep Farr, Sam (CA-17] - 7/18/2007
Rep Gilchrest, Wayne T. (MD-1] - 7/27/2007
Rep Green, Al (TX-9] - 6/28/2007
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. (AZ-7] - 8/2/2007
Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. (NY-22] - 7/18/2007
Rep Hinojosa, Ruben (TX-15] - 6/28/2007
Rep Honda, Michael M. (CA-15] - 9/4/2007
Rep Israel, Steve (NY-2] - 9/4/2007
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. (IL-2] - 7/27/2007
Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice (TX-30] - 7/18/2007
Rep Jones, Stephanie Tubbs (OH-11] - 9/4/2007
Rep Kaptur, Marcy (OH-9] - 9/4/2007
Rep Kildee, Dale E. (MI-5] - 7/18/2007
Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. (OH-10] - 9/4/2007
Rep Larson, John B. (CT-1] - 7/18/2007
Rep Lee, Barbara (CA-9] - 6/28/2007
Rep Lofgren, Zoe (CA-16] - 9/4/2007
Rep Lynch, Stephen F. (MA-9] - 6/28/2007
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. (NY-14] - 9/4/2007
Rep McCarthy, Carolyn (NY-4] - 9/4/2007
Rep McCollum, Betty (MN-4] - 7/18/2007
Rep McGovern, James P. (MA-3] - 9/4/2007
Rep McHugh, John M. (NY-23] - 6/28/2007
Rep Michaud, Michael H. (ME-2] - 7/18/2007
Rep Miller, Gary G. (CA-42] - 6/28/2007
Rep Miller, George (CA-7] - 9/4/2007
Rep Moore, Gwen (WI-4] - 8/2/2007
Rep Murphy, Christopher S. (CT-5] - 6/28/2007
Rep Nadler, Jerrold (NY-8] - 9/4/2007
Rep Pastor, Ed (AZ-4] - 9/4/2007
Rep Payne, Donald M. (NJ-10] - 7/11/2007
Rep Ramstad, Jim (MN-3] - 6/28/2007
Rep Renzi, Rick (AZ-1] - 6/28/2007
Rep Rush, Bobby L. (IL-1] - 9/4/2007
Rep Ryan, Tim (OH-17] - 9/4/2007
Rep Scott, Robert C. "Bobby" (VA-3] - 9/4/2007
Rep Shays, Christopher (CT-4] - 6/28/2007
Rep Sherman, Brad (CA-27] - 9/4/2007
Rep Smith, Christopher H. (NJ-4] - 6/28/2007
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. (NY-12] - 6/28/2007
Rep Walsh, James T. (NY-25] - 7/18/2007
Rep Waters, Maxine (CA-35] - 6/28/2007
Rep Watson, Diane E. (CA-33] - 9/4/2007
Rep Watt, Melvin L. (NC-12] - 9/4/2007
Rep Welch, Peter (VT] - 7/18/2007



Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-HI)
Rep. Thomas Allen (D-ME]
Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI]
Rep. John Barrow (D-GA]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR]
Rep. Kathy Castor (D-FL]
Rep. William Clay (D-MO]
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO]
Rep. Charles Dent (R-PA]
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL]
Rep. Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO]
Rep. Philip English (R-PA]
Rep. Sam Farr (D-CA]
Rep. Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD]
Rep. Al Green (D-TX]
Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ]
Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY]
Rep. Rubén Hinojosa (D-TX]
Rep. Jesse Jackson (D-IL]
Rep. Eddie Johnson (D-TX]
Rep. Dale Kildee (D-MI]
Rep. John Larson (D-CT]
Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA]
Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA]
Rep. Betty McCollum (D-MN]
Rep. John McHugh (R-NY]
Rep. Michael Michaud (D-ME]
Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA]
Rep. Gwen Moore (D-WI]
Rep. Christopher Murphy (D-CT]
Rep. Donald Payne (D-NJ]
Rep. James Ramstad (R-MN]
Rep. Rick Renzi (R-AZ]
Rep. Christopher Shays (R-CT]
Rep. Christopher Smith (R-NJ]
Rep. Nydia Velázquez (D-NY]
Rep. James Walsh (R-NY]
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA]
Rep. Peter Welch (D-VT]

[ulysses]

16. can't be!

The New Economy lifted all boats! That's what made it safe to "end welfare as we knew it"!

[bobbolink]

24. I would suggest, though, that the "front line" of poverty isn't either the experts or the providers

The FRONT LINE is we poor folk, ourselves!

We are never asked, never consulted, and decisions made about our lives without our input.

Those "front line poverty fighters" need to take a back seat, sometimes....

[Hydra]

31. And lose the chance to have us under their thumbs?

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

26. Nonsense! Bush has been great for the economy.

:sarcasm:

[marmar]

27. Thank you Bluebear.....Economists and BushCo slight-of-hand with poverty numbers....

won't work much longer. Reality will bite them in the ass. Not that they'll give a damn.

[Megahurtz]

28. And If This Country Continues

with it's present day policies and the way it treats it's own people, it's only going to get worse.
It seems as if the U.S. is turning into a Third World Country.

[bobbolink]

37. It needs to get worse-- the sooner the better, and much worse for the muddleclass.

That's the only way it's gonna change.... hit the muddleclass hard, so they wake up and understand what poor folk have been dealing with for so long!

[Sapphire Blue]

44. Poverty & homelessness are knocking on "muddleclass" doors right now.

The "muddleclass" seems to think that if they close the blinds & don't answer the door, it won't get them. So what if it's gotten their neighbor... they just close the blinds facing their neighbor's house so they don't have to see it. Then one day, the bulldozer rams the front of their house down... they've been hit w/a job loss, a devastating illness, or other catastrophe. What does their neighbor across the street do? Why, they close their blinds so they don't have to see it.

And so it goes.

Someday, we might start caring about each other again. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[bobbolink]

50. Those of us who've been kicked and kicked, have lost a lot of our ability to care.

The crash of the muddleclass can't happen fast enough.

When THEY suffer and start to care, then maybe things will come together and we'll all be able to find our humanity again.

That is the biggest tragedy of all..... even death of poor people no longer fazes the muddleclass.

:cry:

[Nikia]

45. I disagree

The polarization of rich and poor makes things worse I think. Many middle class people are afraid of being poor so they identify with the rich. If they weren't so afraid and things weren't rapidly becoming either or, they might be willing to be more generous with the poor and not turn their back on poor friends and neighbors.

[bobbolink]

51. Dream on. They've had it good, and turned their backs!

They chose to believe all the Reagan crap about it being all our fault being poor, so that was their choice.

Things were good for them in the 90's, but that didn't make them become caring and generous.

During the Depression, people reached out because they were still human enough to care.

So, your argument doesn't hold up.

People CHOSE whether to care or not care.

When they are finally in the ditch themselves, things will look different to them.

Sad, but true.

[EFerrari]

32. Kick