Businesses Are Not Something You Have a Personal Relationship With

[mondo joe]

Setting aside the whole legality of the receipts/search/being detained business -

I'm always shocked by complaints that a store wanting to see a receipt or have you check your bag is an insult.

The store isn't your friend or your family. Trust is what you have in your personal relationships.

You might have some faith or trust or respect as a bonus. But your interaction with your employer, your grocery, your Costco the Airport, or any other business is financial and to varying degrees formalized.

If you think your relationship with the electronics tore is based on TRUST, just refuse the receipt for your next big ticket item, or just throw it away - after all, you trust each other, right? So you won't need your receipt.

Costco isn't insulting its members by screening everything that leaves the store. They're not saying you're a common criminal.

But you might be. :-)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. on the flip side, because they are not my friend, i might not want to concede any of my rights

to them

[mondo joe]

2. I agree completely. You shouldn't concede your rights.

And I don't want to either.

But it is worth getting clear on what are actually rights. :-)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. true. i am not defending the circuit city guy, i didnt really read that story

i am just saying that if i object to being searched a business cannot expect me to cooperate. they are not my friends.

[ewoden]

3. Thanks Mondo for telling us how we should feel...

What next, how we should think? :-)

By the way that soulless relationship sounds a lot like Moore's diatribe about GM in Michigan. The old unfettered capitalism bit. As the monologue goes if there is no morality in commerce then the sale of crack cocaine is one of the purest forms of market influence and nobody should be outraged if GM sold crack, right?.

[mondo joe]

6. I'm not telling you how to feel. I'm reminding you of reality.

:-)

Since I support decriminalization of drugs, if they are legal I'm not particularly worried about who sells them.

[Clintonista2]

5. Circuit City can treat you like shit, and there's a solution-

Don't shop there. If they were specifically targetting a certain group (i.e; only checking receipts of Black people), then we would have a problem.

[ewoden]

7. And so if all stores adopt this, we shop where?

just asking.

I personally let them know I don't like the practice. They usually leave me alone after a couple of times. And the moral to that is that YES they actually do select certain groups, and the group they search is the sheeple.

[mondo joe]

9. If all stores adopt WHAT exactly?

[ewoden]

11. Policies stating that I

must submit to search of my parcels to shop there.

I'm not saying thatit is right or wrong, legal or not. I'm saying that one is still free in this country to argue with that, if one so chooses.

[mondo joe]

13. That's a legal question.

You're still free tyo argue with anything you like. Creationists are proof of that.

[ewoden]

16. So not liking to be searhed is the same as

believing in a myth in your opinion? Oh how far this society is falling.

[mondo joe]

18. Try reading it again. My point is you can argue against anything you like.

There are no prohibitions on arguing, on disliking or on being very vocal about it.

[ewoden]

20. I read it right the first time, as you intended

arguing anything is like being a creationist. Hey that's ok though.

[ret5hd]

8. Theoretically, how long may a business entity legally detain you...

without evidence of a crime on your part?

30 seconds?

1 hour?

1 day?

[ewoden]

14. A "reasonable amount of time" in most states where such

laws exist.

In the words of the sheeple, "it's not that baaaaaaad." :-)

[EFerrari]

10. So, you set aside the core issue and make this about trust?

:wtf:

This has nothing to do with trust but with due process.

Got me to post. Congrats!

[mondo joe]

12. This isn't about that - it's a SEPARATE issue.

I don't think the main issue is about trust. It's a set of legal questions.

[EFerrari]

27. Then, I guess I just don't understand your OP. n/t

[mondo joe]

30. For what it's worth, the Circuit City story resulted in a number of posts

with sentiments I've seen befoer -- that having to check your bags at some stores is perceived as an insult, or that checking your receipt (even at membership places like Costco) is an insult, or makes people feel they are accused of being theives.

My OP is not about the legality of the particular Circuit City incident, which is still being debated and will likely be resolved in court.

I'm just talking about the phenomenon of people thinking their relatinship with a store is based on trust.

[EFerrari]

32. Thanks for the clarification. n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. Last I checked, due process applies to the government.

Not to what a private entity does on its own private property.

[EFerrari]

25. Nope. It's what citizens can expect or, what we used to expect. n/t

[treestar]

17. It's a two way contract

Costco you might be more willing to bend for - there are reasons for it - since you are a member, the relationship is closer, so to speak. And there it could be part of the contract.

Typical retail - they should be trying to get you in there to buy their crap - IOW, ordering you around is the last thing they want to appear to do. That's why they get those chips and detectors - CC is saving money on that.

If they expect customers to help them let them be real nice about it rather than authoritarian.

The issue to this story is: the security guard and the cop were under the impression they could force it and use the power of the state to back it up.

[ewoden]

19. Businesses Are Not Something You Have a Personal Relationship With

All businesses? The doctor's office? The Law office? Your financial advisor? Really?

So when Allstate denies one's clain to restore your house after a hurricane, one shouldn't take it personally?

So when the airline pilot arrives to fly your pane drunk, hey it's only business, don't take it personally?

Darn I had no idea serving you clients or customers was so devoid of trust, respect, morals.

[mondo joe]

21. Really. Your relationships with your doctor, lawyer etc are also

formal relationships with laws and regulations.

When a pilot tries to fly drunk it's not personal - it's a legal violation.

When Allstate denies a claim that's not personal either - it's either in your contract and he's fucking you over or it's not and you're SOL.

I'm glad you're learning.

[ewoden]

26. No expectation of any morals. You are so easily pleased n/t

[mondo joe]

28. Morals are personal. This is a formal, legal relationship.

You can go through life expecting others to satisfy your moral sense, if that's how you like to spend your time.

IMO you are better served by being a smart advocate for your rights and responsibilities.

[snappyturtle]

22. What ever happened to the attitude that the customer is always right?

I remember shopping at local department stores in the fifties and sixties when the people at the door, held the door, so customers could exit easily. Now we're checked like thieves 50 feet from the cash register. I don't shop at the stores doing this anymore. When I did I showed them my displeasure by my actions. I would take my time retrieving my receipt from my zipped wallet in my purse. I would present the receipt so the inspector could take a 10 second look see and then reverse the receipt retrieval. By the time I got that done there would be a line behind me....oh well. I never said one word. Thank goodness I don't deal with these people anymore.....until I suppose the local grocery or Walgreens decide to check purchases. Why don't they put a camera over the cash register if this procedure is so important to their bottom line. Do they inspect their employees when they leave after a shift?

I also want to know from those who think this policy is so swell, what happens if the inspector finds an item in my possession I haven't paid for although I obviously went through the checkout? Is it the checker's fault or mine? When I shopped at Sam's Club once every six weeks my bill would be between four and five hundred dollars....I was too busy packing a cart and boxes with my purchases to watch the checker scan evey item. This "mistake" I've proposed could happen....so then what?

[mondo joe]

24. IMO you did exactly the right thing. If you don't like how a store treats you,

don't spend your money there.

[EFerrari]

29. If we observed that logic in all aspects of daily life

we'd be housebound.

It's the "love it or leave it" argument on wheels.

[mondo joe]

31. Nonsense. Stores are competing for your $. If you support the ones

you like, and not the ones you don't, it leads to more of what you want.

Or you could just keep spending your money there and complain about it.

[EFerrari]

36. What's funny about this is, I rarely go to stores at all.

I order up everything on line or over the phone.

But, I reserve the right to complain. :)

[snappyturtle]

33. YES! I agree with you. I do not like this policy of stores and the above poster

never answered my question. They lure us into their stores and treat us like shit when we leave. I had a gift shop....probably had some theft....but for the most part people who check out are very honest. I think the "problem" lies with their employees or there really isn't a big problem at all it's just intimidation.....like "don't you even think about stealing from us"....poor business practices. If they make it an ordeal for me I hand it back in kind.

[mondo joe]

34. "Hand it back in kind"? Hand it back to whom, exactly?

[snappyturtle]

37. If they're bent on interrupting my departure I make certain that

it takes long enough to gum up the works a bit. I figure if the "inspector" is annoyed management will find out and save me the time from telling them myself. If they make me march to their drummer I just change the tempo a bit. I say nothing...do just what they want....maybe just not how they want. What can they say?

[EFerrari]

35. How come I can never find a Home Depot employee when

I need help finding a thingy? They're ALL at the doors! lol

:hi:

[porphyrian]

23. If it's your personal business, you do. - n/t