Stores checking your receipt- is it unreasonable?

[Clintonista2]

[Pawel K]

1. What?

Are you talking about what costco does at the door when you leave? I am confused.

[Clintonista2]

2. Where have you been the past 2 days?

There's like 50 topics about this subject on DU.

[Pawel K]

94. Been moving

So I am still a bit behind. Someone posted a link below, thanks.

[Quantess]

3. Here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1745824

[BOSSHOG]

4. Not unreasonable at all

If you suspected your plumber was walking out of your house with the secret stash of cash you hide underneath the sink would you ask him about it or choose not to invade his privacy?

If your checkbook was stolen and the guy in front of you was writing a check on your account for his purchases would you be offended if the checkout clerk asked him for ID?

[ewoden]

28. Asking the plumber is not the same as detaining him

or requesting he empty his pockets

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. Store theft is a major cost and major concern. Franchises

are owned by little peopl quite often, and if they lose too much to two legged collectors, they can't hire more people etc.

[napi21]

6. Retail losses from theft costs all of us a fortune every year!

The creativity of shoplifters wold boggle your mind! Checking your receipt is one way to at least slow it down!!!!

[jayfish]

46. Yeah, Cause Throwing Something You Have Stolen...

into a bag with a bunch of stuff you've purchased is soooooooooo creative. :eyes:

Jay

[napi21]

95. It's not only things in your bag not on the receipt, but things that

really cost $100+ ringing up at $9.95! That's actually the newer trick...switching the UPC stickers.

Yes, that should be caught at the checkout by the cashier, but many times it's not! Then there's always the self checkouts!!!!

[jayfish]

96. How Do You Switch UPC Stickers?

With few exceptions that I have seen, UPC codes are embedded in a products packaging. Now I have seen cases where the sticker says one thing, like $9.95, and the UPC scans at .01 but you can't tell me that these door monitors know pricing information for the stores entire inventory. They wouldn't be a receipt checker at Circuit City if they did. I'm also not sure of the ability of the store to attempt to correct a discrepancy after check-out. They have to correct if the error is in their favor. I don't think they can do anything if it is in yours.

Jay

[napi21]

104. Yes most are, but some are stickon that can be carefully pealed

off and reapplied to another item. Some AH's even print their own and just stick them over the original. You'd be surprised at the number of cahsiers who simply scan items and pay no attention to what the item is or it's perceived value. Another trick is to take a more expensive model item and put it in the cheaper model's box. Those are the common newer shoplifiting methods I know of. Other than of course the age old stick it down your pants, in your purse, or pocket, or down your blouse.

I've also seen people arrested for performing feats I would have thought impossible, like kiding a TV between your legs and actually getting out of the without it falling out! This feat was done several times at a major Dept. Store in Pgh. PA. by heavy set women wearing a dress at the time. That one still blows my mind!!!!

[emilyg]

72. Yes. And we all pay for it.

[cwydro]

7. I have way more to worry about

than the local Kmart checking my receipt. I find it amusing actually, since half the time they never even look in the bag.

[Clintonista2]

8. Yea, I've found that too

They usually just glance at the receipt, I doubt if they even read anything on it, unless it's a big item like a TV or something.

[iamthebandfanman]

11. so have i

i think they just wanna see if the size of the bag matches whats on the receipt... i really dont see it as a problem.

people like to steal. *shrugs*
just a way for them them to try and detour it.

[terrya]

9. No, it isn't unreasonable

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. In my opinion, yeah.

I've got better things to do with my time then stand around and wait for some guy to check my reciept.

[Clintonista2]

12. Well, I've got better things to do with my time than stand in line to pay for an item

But I don't consider it unreasonable.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Neither do I.

Because I make a compromise. I stand in the line in order that I can purchase the item that I want.

I don't gain anything from some guy checking my receipt.

[Clintonista2]

19. Theft costs stores hundreds of millions of dollars a year

You don't think you have to pay higher prices because of that?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Do you really think the stores are going to pass savings on to the consumer?

Would you like to buy a bridge?

The guy who checks the receipt isn't going to save me anything, because I already know I'm not stealing anything.

[Clintonista2]

24. Well, I still think theft is wrong, and a store has a right to try to stop it

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Sure.

And I've every right to walk right out the front door without showing my receipt.

[Clintonista2]

30. Evidently, you do not

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. I do not what?

Stores have a right to protect themselves from shoplifting, that doesn't not give them the right to stop me from walking right out the front door.

This isn't brain surgery, Lirwin.

[Left Is Write]

43. He does not have the right to walk out the door without showing his receipt?

Yeah, he does.

[Kajsa]

69. Try that at Costco.

n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

66. They may not pass on any savings to the consumer, but you can

bet your bottom dollar that the consumer will wind up being charged for losses from shoplifted merchandise.

[napi21]

110. Actually I think you would see a savings if shoplifting were all but

eliminitated, but not for the reason you think. Price competition between retailers is fierce! They all send price checkers to the competition to see what like items are selling for so they can remain competative and BEAT the competitions price is they can! The cost of stolen products has to be added to their cost of operations, and any retailer who can drastically reduce theft can underprice their competition on everything and STEAL CUSTOMERS for their own! Those who are lax on security simply can't afford to price match those who are.

BTW, that guy who checks your receipt is at least a deterant to the potential shoplifter who isn't willing to take the chance of getting caught.

[snappyturtle]

67. Stores have security cameras.....use them. ...point them over the checkouts.

Do they check their employees when they leave after their shifts? Pretty soon they'll be checking our pockets and purses...which actually makes more sense if they are truly looking for thieved items.

To answer your question: You don't think you have to pay higher prices because of that?
Answer: I'm sure we do and they probably write it off to boot....sounds like a win win to me.

[iamthebandfanman]

14. oh please

it takes them all of less than a minute... the last time it happened to me i bet it took less than 20 seconds.

[Clintonista2]

17. I don't even stop walking

I flash the receipt while walking out

[Left Is Write]

45. If all you do is "flash" the receipt while still in motion -

how, exactly, do you think that contributes to loss prevention?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. LOL

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Yeah, exactly.

There's better things I can do with those twenty seconds. Pick my nose. Scratch my ass. All of them more important to me than some guy checking my receipt.

[jayfish]

68. Shoot Maybe They Should Install Backscatter X-Ray Devices...

at the doors. That would take about a second to get through. I sure everyone would be ok with that. I mean a stores gotta do what a scores gotta do to keep prices low, low, low. ...right?

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-11-30-tsa-xray_x.htm

Transportation Security Administration screeners at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport will test a "backscatter" machine that could vastly improve weapons detection but has been labeled a "virtual strip search" by the American Civil Liberties Union. Backscatter can show clear images of nude bodies.

[ewoden]

74. Hey then they might be tempted to check my "package"

That might really be embarrassing.

[jayfish]

79. That Might Give New Meaning To The Term Shrinkage. -NT-

Jay

[jpgray]

16. How do you feel about luggage searches at the airport?

Or ID checks at a bar/club?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. I'm fine with luggage checks at airports.

ID checks at bars, convenience stores, R-rated movies, etc. are pretty stupid. Especially when the person's clearly over age.

[jpgray]

23. Isn't that a far more invasive search to prevent the commission of a crime?

Don't mean to ask such a leading question, but how is the airport example significantly different? They don't have probable cause or a warrant in either case.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. If you decide you don't want to go through the metal detector...

you've got a right to walk right out of the airport.

[Clintonista2]

32. And if you don't like receipt checks, you can walk right out of the store

Without buying anything.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. That's true.

I also have the right to go in, buy something, and then walk right out the door.

[jpgray]

38. If you decide you don't want to have your receipt checked, you have a right not to shop there

It still seems similar to me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Nobody's saying you don't.

[jayfish]

81. Why The Difficulty In Discerning...

entry from exit? Luggage and ID checks are prerequisites for entrance, not exit. They have the right to keep you from entering but little-to-no right to stop you from leaving.

Jay

[ewoden]

84. moreover, Luggage and ID checks are also mandated by Federal law

for entry to an airport security zone. There is no legal requirement (for the store or the customer) to check one's purchases at the door of a store.

[jpgray]

88. And if there were? Would that be a reasonable law?

Is the law governing airport security reasonable?

[ewoden]

89. for the supposed goal for protection of the commons yes

But one can't say the same if a law was passed to require shopping bag searches for receipt match.

[jpgray]

87. If you behave suspiciously in an airport and refuse to be searched and then try to leave

I suspect you may get some attention from security staff and police.

[jayfish]

93. Yeah, An Airport Is A Bit Different Though.

It really doesn't fit in but the OP used it so I had to generalize a bit. I suspected someone would spot it.
Jay

[FSogol]

13. The solution: Don't shop at stores that do this if you don't like it.

:shrug:

[ewoden]

50. Other solution

politely decline to be searched.

[Clintonista2]

77. You're not being "searched"

[ewoden]

82. Good one

crim. law. Search-An examination of a man's house, premises or person, for the purpose of discovering proof of his guilt in relation to some crime or misdemeanor of which be is accused.

In this case i guess it is not a search since you are assumed guilty and they are searching to prove you are not.

I stand corrected :-)

[jayfish]

83. That Sounds Like The Old "If You Hate It Here...

in the USA then leave" argument I hear a lot. I never have understood the idea that I have to recalibrate everything I do to satisfy some master somewhere. Especially since the master in question has no legal authority to detain me unless they have a reasonable suspicion that I have committed a crime against them.

Jay

[PATRICK]

20. Thieves can beat

the check. It might look good for the insurance company or upper management. Lots of security(Australia) is intimidation and show that impresses the hell out of regular folk. The purpose is also to AVOID arresting anyone by catching "mistakes" before they walk out the door. It is a system criminals understand as sort of a gentleman's agreement. If we don't correct you at the checkpoint you away and free. Someone openly blundering or breaking PAST the checkpoint has to be either an amateur or a disruptive innocent and most likely to arouse the ire of the system.

[PATRICK]

27. Not to embarass a local store

which did the right thing, but my son nabbed a phony check presentation gimmick. They had a store warning on the guy and it was the POLICE(who happened to be stopping by for goodies) who lazily let the guy go with his fluffy BS explanation. Once they checked the identity the guy had long gone. Ooops. No one is very good at actually catching anyone. 99% of most security is show and the exception is just as likely to be some innocent who runs afoul of the net.

[Arkansas Granny]

70. Sometimes looking good for the insurance company can save

thousands of dollars annually on premiums. If you have certain written policies for your company it can mean a great savings on insurance costs.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. As long as they check everyone, I'm okay with it

[ewoden]

48. But they don't check everyone....

only those who submit to the search.

[JVS]

29. They had me waiting right there at the register, They can check there if they like.

I got shit to do, you miserable fucking greeters.

[Clintonista2]

41. except that

I've had to re-enter the store plenty of times because I've forgot something. Couldn't a thief simply put something in his store bag that has his legitimate items in it?

[JVS]

53. If you're coming back in, that's a different story.

But basically. I've already gone through enough of an audit by bringing my purchases to the register to be scanned and then paying for them. Checking me on the way out is like the bank stopping you at the door to go through your wallet to make sure that they didn't give you too much.

[Evoman]

33. Meh....I don't let them check my receipt because I think its stupid.

It doesn't get "unreasonable" until some jerk off tries to stop me. As long as they let me walk past, and people who want to show their receipts can stop if they way, I don't care.

I do find it interesting that people bother to stop.

[ewoden]

44. EVO you are the man!!

Stopping to be checked I hear is not that Bahhhhhhhhhhhhdd

[Evoman]

52. Yeah.

If the choice is between not bad, and good, I'll pick good. Again, this isn't a big deal in Canada...but when I'm in the states, I find it amusing that there is sometimes a LINE UP to have your receipts checked. Thats the fucking dumbest thing ever....why would people line up to be checked???

[ewoden]

56. To get those Low Low Walmart prices

that avoiding loss prevention assures us will be passed on to the consumer.

[Evoman]

61. Pffft....I still get those low low walmart prices, and I don't stand in any fucking line up

AFTER I give good money for their crap.

(not that I really shop at walmart if I can help it. I hate fucking walmart).

[azurnoir]

34. No that is not unreasonable

annoying yes, but....

[City of Mills]

36. I voted 'Other'

And I decline to explain further. What are you gonna do about it, detain me? ;)

[ewoden]

40. Paper's please :-)

[jayfish]

42. The Reasonableness Of The Practice Is Not The Issue.

It's whether or not the store has the right to physically detain you if you say "No Thanks".

Jay

[merci_me]

47. If you don't like the store's policy

you don't have to shop there and you can tell them why. If you didn't know the policy, you can always turn around and head back to the customer service desk and return the item and let them know why.

I no longer shop at Circuit City because of their policy of dropping their full time employees and replacing them with part time, so they don't have to pay benefits. I do check them out on prices, just in case I can get a better price there. Then I get a price confirmation from them and take it to a competitor, who matches prices. Twice I've done this and made a major purchase. Then I sent a photocopy of my receipt to Circuit City along with a note telling them why I won't buy from them. But if you don't mind that policy, that's up to you.

[ewoden]

54. Not to bait you but

Supposing you entered into the CC to price compare and you have a handbag, or a backpack, or in the possession of a PDA. Would you submit to a search to determine if those items were truly yours?

[Evoman]

55. Or, if you don't like the stores policy, you can still shop there and walk out.

Its up to them if they want to ban you, but since they like the green, they won't.
It just so happens that my policy is that I don't follow store policy. It all works out perfectly. If they don't like it, they don't have to sell me shit.

[JVS]

57. If they don't like the customer's policy they can either ban him or kick him out.

They have no right to any cooperation from the customers though

[Wcross]

51. I do not stop after I have paid.

If they have reason to believe I have stolen something they have the right to try to detain me. I don't have the time to stop and let some idiot look at the receipt the cashier just gave me at the register.
I stopped once and the guy said he "Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overcharged", I asked him how much the pickles were and he didn't know. I told him that he was wasting our time and left.

[ewoden]

60. "Price check at the door. Vlassic Pickles"

Great post

[Quantess]

58. It's one way of deterring theft.

If they do it to everyone who walks out of their store, then why would anyone feel insulted? It's not like they single out only the suspicious ones.

As long as they aren't making anyone feel singled out, or embarrassed, then why are people so opposed to a policy of receipt-checking? They don't want people stealing. It doesn't mean they suspect you. It just is a way for them to deter theft.

[ewoden]

65. If they don't suspect me why should they feel the need to check?

Are they just obsessive compulsive? Should they seek help?

[Quantess]

73. By asking everyone, then no one should be insulted or embarrassed.

Imagine if a store checked receipts of only the most suspicious looking/acting 20% of people exiting the store. How rude and insulting would that be?

[ewoden]

78. Not at all if the suspicion was based on

observation of an activity that really was suspicious. Like a big coat worn in the middle of summer, wearing five layers of clothes with tags on them. Somebody observed putting an item in the bag away from the check-out counter, etc.

Just being at the store and purchasing something does not a criminal make. it is lawful to ask for a voluntary search, it is insulting to ask me for one. Your mileage obviously differs.

[Quantess]

85. I think the problem with only demanding to see a receipt from a suspicious few,

the store will end up making people angry for wrongly suspecting them. Have you ever been wrongly suspected of theft? I have, and it made me very insulted, angry, and bitter. However, I don't get any emotional reaction at all when I exit stores like Costco and Circuit City because I know they aren't singling me out.

[ewoden]

90. "Have you ever been wrongly suspected of theft? "

Yes every time I'm asked to submit to a search of my parcels at a store. If being randomly searched is okay with you so long as everybody is subject to it, I wonder how you would feel if everyone was randomly wire-tapped?

[Quantess]

100. Is it really a "search of parcels"?

Or is it comparing your receipt with the contents of your shopping cart? I don't know of any major stores that search the parcels of every customer.

There may be some little stores who routinely search people's bags as they leave, but I doubt anyone would want to shop there. They'd go out of business if they searched everyone's parcels.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. They have a right to ask for a VOLUNTARY SEARCH

and I have a right to say no

Yes, it is that damn simple

[brooklynite]

62. I think a fair summary is: "house rules"

You can choose to shop in their store or not, but once you enter their property, you can be expected to follow their rules. If they want you to check your bags upon entering, show a receipt at the door, take only 3 items into the dressing room, stand in one line to pay and another to pick up your merchandise, that's their choice. They take the risk of annoying you so much that you'll take your business elsewhere, but ultimately its their decision how to run their store.

[Evoman]

63. No.

How about I buy my shit and leave? It works for me.

[Pithlet]

75. Legally, that isn't true.

They can make all those policies, sure. And they can kick you out of the store if you don't comply with them. But if you don't break an actual law, they can't hold you against your will.

[Bill McBlueState]

64. Whether it's reasonable isn't the main issue

The main issue is whether the law requires me to allow an employee to check my receipt. If the law makes no such requirement of me, then it doesn't matter whether the store is being reasonable. They can ask for it, and depending on my mood and my schedule, I may or may not comply.

[Pithlet]

71. The policy itself isn't unreasonable.

It's just not against the law to not comply with it, and they can't treat you like a criminal and detain you if you refuse to comply. Store policies can't be enforced beyond refusal to do business with customers who won't comply, unless the policy itself is also based on law, like checking ID for alcohol and cigarettes.

[cgrindley]

76. I don't like to use bags, so it's entirely reasonable

although I hate the idea of recycling bags or worse, using those stupid hippy reusable bags, I often simply carry my purchases in my hands (hand were the original bags, you know)... so it might look like I'm shoplifting that video game or dvd. I don't mind showing my receipt in such circumstances because a "reasonable" person would clearly have "probable" grounds to suppose that I was shoplifting.

If my purchases were in an official store bag and I was clearly walking away from the check out. Fuck them. They don't have any "reasonable" grounds to suspect me.

[Clintonista2]

80. "Hands were the original bags" - Greatest thing I've ever heard

:rofl:

[meow2u3]

86. That depends on whether the item is bagged or not

If the item is in a bag, receipt checks are unreasonable; however, if the bought item is too large to fit into a bag, receipt checks can be reasonable to check to see if the customer really bought the thing(s).

I used to be a "people greeter" at Wal-Mart 8 years ago, and part of my job description was to check customers' receipts if they left the store with an item or items too large to be bagged. A thankless job AFAIC.

[question everything]

91. Stores are private entermprise

and can do whatever damn they want. If we don't like it, we should not patronize them.

I admit, I did not read all the threads on DU until now. If he refused to show the receipt as a matter of principle, and I admire him for that - he should have gone back to the register, return the items and got a refund.

These things happen in big box stores. What bugs me is when I am paying with a credit card and they want to see an ID "to make sure that the card was not stolen." For which I reply that if it were - it is my problem, not theirs. But, of course, by then I have been through the stores, selected the items and just abandoning everything is too much.

Though, at one point, at a supermarket, someone directed me to a register but when I arrived there, the cashier told me that he was closed.

I just left everything - yes, even perishable items - and walked out.

[Left Is Write]

101. If the credit card you are using is a Visa or Mastercard....

they cannot require ID as a condition of the sale. This violates their merchant contract with Visa/Mastercard. The credit card itself is already considered a form of I.D., and you don't have to show another to use it.

The store is not violating the contract merely by asking for the I.D., but if you refuse to show it, they can't deny the sale because of your refusal.

And for those who write "See I.D." on the back of the card: technically, this invalidates the card. An unsigned Visa/Mastercard is an invalid one.

[question everything]

112. Thank you. I was not aware of this

will certainly remember this if and when a store wants to see and ID when I am paying with a VISA or a MasterCard.

(I wonder how many customers think that they have to provide phone numbers when they complete a transaction. Here I just say NO)

[Norrin Radd]

92. The receipt checking is a weak attempt to frighten would-be

shoplifters, much like the door greeter. Yeah, they may spook a first-timer, while they are checking his or her receipt and contents of the bag, the professional has stuff stashed elsewhere, wearing a blithe poker face. Would it be okay for them to resquest to inspect one's pockets, coat, purse, or bag from a nearby store, as well? I don't think so.

[mhatrw]

97. It's reasonable to ask, but it is illegal to detain those who refuse.

Detaining an innocent person against his will is called false imprisonment. A store can not detain a customer against his will unless the store has probable cause to suspect shoplifting. The mere refusal to submit to a receipt/bag inspection does not constitute probable cause. Nor does unwarranted suspicion (as in "we just thought he was guilty") constitute probable cause. The standard for probable cause for suspecting shoplifting is perceiving the customer doing something that looks like shoplifting. Legally speaking, this issue is cut and dried.

[Deja Q]

98. Maybe a bit more readily acceptable if the alarm goes off first, but nope either way.

Doesn't bother me when they ask. It's also the most social contact I also get in a store.

[fishwax]

99. I think it's not unreasonable either for the store to ask or for the customer to refuse

[Beelzebud]

102. Do they think it changed in the 20 seconds since they printed it out and gave it to me?

[WonderGrunion]

103. It depends on the "Store"

People are under the impression that a Costco or Sam's Club is a public retail outlet. They are not. By requiring the purchase of a membership, they are a private club that has the right to enforce any rules they want on their members as a condition of membership. That includes receipt checks. You can choose to discontinue your membership if it ticks you off, but a member has obligations to a private club as a condition of the membership in said club. If they find those obligations unreasonable, they have no other recourse then to cancel membership.

[Jamastiene]

105. Not really. A hassle maybe, but they do need to do it

sometimes in stores that have notorious reputations as being easy targets for shoplifters. It's definitely a hassle though.

[Hoof Hearted]

106. They can if they want to

but I won't shop there.

Screw it. Either you trust and value me as a human being and a customer or you don't. If I ever inadvertantly purchase something at a place that wants to see a receipt on the way out, I'll turn the cart around and get a refund on everything right then and there.

[walldude]

107. Only place it's ever happened to me is Costco

and I have no problem with them....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Nah. It's Such A Minor And Petty Inconvenience. Don't Change My Life Any.

Besides, I can understand completely why retail stores would want to do it given how much money they lose annually due to shoplifting and human error. So just that alone would on its face make it a reasonable thing to do.

[Katherine Brengle]

109. A lot of stores do this. They check it like, 30 seconds after the cashier gives it to you, what's

the problem with that?

I think it's a reasonable security measure.

[Fox Mulder]

111. Absolutely.