I'm going to say this once, the bin Laden tape is a fake.....

[Aviation Pro]

Read the content, look at the words and study the syntax. This appears to be the comments of someone who reads the NY Times and other western literature, not a radical fundamentalist.

The tape is a fake.

""One should pause, think and reflect," the speaker says, according to the transcript. "Why have the Democrats failed to stop this war, despite them being the majority?"

The answer to that question, he later says, is "the same reasons which led to the failure of former President Kennedy to stop the Vietnam War. Those with with real power and influence are those with the most capital. And since the democratic system permits major corporations to back candidates, be they presidential or congressional, there shouldn't be any cause for astonishment -- and there isn't any -- in the Democrats' failure to stop the war." Watch segment of reported bin Laden tape »

The transcript also shows bin Laden blaming global warming on large corporations.

"The life of all mankind is in danger because of the global warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the factories the major corporations," it says.

"And despite this brazen attack on the people , the leaders of the West -- especially Bush, Blair, Sarkozy and Brown -- still talk about freedom and human rights with a flagrant disregard for the intellects of humans?"

The reference to French President Nicolas Sarkozy and new British Prime Minister Gordon Brown suggests that the tape was done this summer.

In the transcript, bin Laden urges conversion to Islam.

"To conclude, I invite you to embrace Islam, for the greatest mistake one can make in the world and one that is uncorrectable is to die while not surrendering to Allah, the Most High, in all aspects of one's life -- i.e., to die outside of Islam," the transcript says."

[boston bean]

1. Bin Laden is a progressive democrat, didn't you know?? nt

[Aviation Pro]

2. Right......

...who attacked the most liberal city in the U.S. Riiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhhttttttttt.

[zbdent]

51. and don't forget ... ordered all that Anthrax mailed to the lefty

politicians ...

[Ken Burch]

100. Osama attacked Burlington, Vermont?

Geez, when did THAT happen?

[Nikki Stone1]

159. LOL!!

:D

[Aviation Pro]

161. Ok, the most liberal city with a population greater than .....

....5 million.

[Richard Steele]

28. Yup. Not exactly the most SUBTLE subtext, is it? nm

[hang a left]

47. Actually he is a neo-con pundit

From the American Enterprise Institute



I'll be here all week.

[HughMoran]

73. lmao - yeah, who knew?

This country's leadership is a damned joke. Bush acknowledged this video and said it was a reminder that we should be afraid? Day after day, this moran just makes me want to vomit into my mouth.

[chukchi1]

114. where and how to express disgust

:puke:
I'd like to suggest you vomit into chimp's mouth instead. Far more satisfying I'd think.

[PurpleChez]

128. Regurgophiles - Worst. Jerry. Springer. Ever.

[HamdenRice]

93. Maybe the text was written by a disgruntled progressive CIA man who just finished JFK

by Oliver Stone and who admires Dwight Eisenhower. What an utterly bizarre message.

I think some disgruntled liberal CIA guy actually tried to slip in some subliminal messages to the sheeple.

[Maat]

109. I like your theory.

HeeHee. Who knows?

[razors edge]

3. Short of a 4WD

dialysis machine, how could he survive the "stan" mountains without governmental help from someone?

[sabbat hunter]

9. there are other methods

if true dialysis is not available, it is possible to flush the toxins out of the body, but they arent very effective and must be done for many hours in a day.

Not to mention he has many followers along the afghan/pakistan border so who is to say who wasn't giving him aid and comfort. (the border area of both countries is only nominally under control of the central government, really is ran by the local tribesmen/taliban.)

[Cleita]

14. My late husband was one who used the flush method for dialysis.

You still had to have sterile conditions and access to the pharmaceutical solutions in order to so so. I doubt if things were very sanitary in Tora Bora and that there was enough clean water to accomplish that.

[razors edge]

17. I think he could get help also,

but that should be the thing the CIA (and others) would identify and utilize.

Leave some supplies loose to pilfering, and tag them with GPS.

I hope the intelligence services are smarter than me.

[cui bono]

31. But you're presuming that they actually WANT to find him. eom

[Megahurtz]

36. Or That They Don't Already Know

where he is.

[timtom]

48. Or that he's still alive...

Come to think of it, what proof do we have that HE engineered 9/11?

[razors edge]

69. None.

Last i checked, he was not listed on the FBI's most wanted list in relation to 9-11.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

Nope, still no 9-11 mention.

[Homer Wells]

167. I seem to recall that, on that unhappy day,

The news reported that Bin Laden insisted that his organization had nothing to do with the attacks, and only after several days of chaos here, did he finally say that al Qaeda was involved.

Hell, sometimes paranoia is the mind set needed to get at the answers.



:eyes:

[donkeyotay]

171. That was the first time we waited for dimson to "make his case" for war.

I'll never forget it. Bush showed the evidence to Blair, and Tony told us we could trust them. (It was top secret, you know. They can't tell us squat. National security. Trust us.)

[razors edge]

65. I know better.

Devil's advocate here, so to speak.

I was only pointing out that we could have found him if we wanted to, except for the fact he is most likely dead or hanging out in the beach condo next to Ken Lay's.

[nebenaube]

193. oh man, that is so "Red Dawn"

LOL

[sabbat hunter]

4. Bin Laden

was well educated and always appears as if he keeps up with current events in the US.


Also unless you speak arabic (which you might I dont know) the syntax changes a bit from language to language.

[Aviation Pro]

7. Then the translator took some extreme liberties....

...I am a linguist from a previous time of my life - although not Arabic, mostly Slavic languages - and skewing a translation is one of the worst transgressions a translator can make.

[razors edge]

13. Wasn't he also

educated in England?

If so, and he wished to reach the American people with his message, why not deliver the speech in English?

If he wished his message to be for the Arabic community, how did the US end up with it first?

[sabbat hunter]

16. as far as I can find

His education was in Arabic countries and that he does not speak English although he might be able to understand it.

[razors edge]

19. I'm not sure either

but I thought I remembered reading he went to college in england, I could be wrong.

[H2O Man]

45. His brother Salem

was educated at Millfield, which is a boarding school. Usama did visit his brother in England.

You might also be thinking of English educator Brian Fyfield-Shayler, who lived and taught in Saudia Arabia for a period of time. He taught Usama, then age 11, some English. He has said that as he recalls, Usama was in the middle of his class, neither an outstanding student, nor at risk of failing.

[razors edge]

66. Actually,

I was thinking of my research shortly after 9-11 that referred to him as Tim Osman, I looked for info on that but nothing still exists that would be considered credible so I didn't go there.

They do scrub this place down from time to time, and leave nothing but the kooks references standing to make any mention seem silly.

[SmokingJacket]

5. Aligning progressive arguments with terrorism is the easiest way to

discredit them without actually having to disprove them.

[Canuckistanian]

56. Yup, I think that's it

Just associate OBL with the exact messages that the progressive community uses.

Fits right in with the RW "liberals are with the terrorists" theme.

[donkeyotay]

169. Exactly. Osama has the republi talking points - how odd.

They've been hammering that the dems have failed to deliver, and surprise, surprise Osama says the same thing. The corporate world is concerned that the American people are beginning to see the downside to the freemarket system, and surprise, surprise Osama sounds like a socialist. As you said, they're using hatred for him and associating it with leftwing ideology. Osama is a Republican.

[Sequoia]

6. Same here. I thought so the other times too.

Hey, everbody, the 'mericans are scared. Let's dig out an old tape of Osama, dress it up a bit, blame the Democrats for the fix we're in and by golly it's the anniversary of 9-11.

[Toots]

8. I basically agree with whomever is speaking on the tape

Capital does control events throughout the world and Democrats are powerless to change that..

[Cleita]

Do you also think everyone should convert to Islam to

make Osama or whatever threat is posed in his name to make it go away?

[Toots]

34. No I am not much for organized religion

I also agree with most of what Jesus said, but not the parts about God, only the parts about how to get along with your fellow man.

[superkia]

59. He believes in his faith like christians do theirs.

[Cleita]

78. I'm a Christian by baptism, indoctrination and culture although

not practice, yet I don't think we demand baptism or death anymore. I wouldn't really know because at one time, here in America, we didn't have to go to church if we didn't want to. However, I can't vouch for the idiots who claim to be Christians anymore.

[Cleita]

10. I think the voice is different from the other tapes in pitch. I believe

anyone who has experience in sound tracks could compare this tape to the one where he has dinner in Afghanistan with a visiting Saudi sheik before we attacked Afghanistan. I believe they could figure out that these are two different persons. Also, there was the question of the use of Arabic in a previous tape that indicated that the person on that tape could have been an Egyptian and not Osama. The first tape, the one with Osama and the Sheik having dinner and having some discussion about how well the attack on the WTC went is the authentic Osama. Since I don't know Arabic nor how to sort out sound electronically, I leave it up to those who can do either to figure it out from here.

[sabbat hunter]

20. the only real way is to

have a voice analyzing instrument. Everyones voices are different like fingerprints. they show up completely different when analyzed.

he may sound different due to acoustics in the room, the way his voice was recorded, other noise in the room, etc. but the voice "fingerprint' is always the same.

[davidwparker]

11. What? Emannuel Goldstein (1984) made another appearence? Shocked. n/t

[Virginia Dare]

12. I've already said it about a half a dozen times...n/t

[Gman]

15. If that's OBL, I'll kiss your ass in front of the White House

Starting with the 04 tape and now this one, OBL never talked about current events in his tapes, nor did he address American political parties. This tape is a RNC/WH production.

[Virginia Dare]

21. I'll show you my receipt from Circuit City while eating at an Olive Garden..

and listening to Oasis..:rofl:

[sabbat hunter]

22. if they were going to fake it

why not wait until next year around 911 when it could affect the presidential election? why release it now?

And remember this first appeared on an al qaeda website, it didnt just pop up out of no where.

[TroglodyteScholar]

42. I would venture a guess...

...that this is an early step in a larger 'thug plan that's just ramping up.

[Marie26]

49. Not exactly

The AP caption says the video was originally posted on "an advertisement featured on an Islamic militant Web site where al-Qaida's media arm, Al-Sahab, frequently posts messages." So, it's from a discussion board where militants post - could've been anyone. I want to know who first publicized the story.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. There'll be another one before the election- you can take that to the fucking bank.

This is the "surge" edition. :eyes:

[trashcanistanista]

67. Good one!

Is that the best they can do to promote their stupid surge? LOL :rofl:

[Gman]

90. Has anyone done a Whois on the website

and for that matter, where is the website? We're told it's an AQ website. So we have to take their word for it. FOr all we know, the whois information would show the domain registered to someone named K Rove. Of course, the website whois info will be blocked for "privacy reasons". Hell, the website could be run by some arm of the Office of Special Plans or something. We don't know a damn thing about this video except what we're told.

As I said above, this video and the November 04 video are distinctly different from the previous OBL videos as OBL never mentioned American politics previously or any other current events. If it is OBL on the tape, he's making the tapes in exchange for his freedom and maybe cash as he needs Bush and Bush needs OBL.

[TheDoorbellRang]

91. when I saw them talk about this tape yesterday

I immediately thought: "Oh, how convenient this comes right before Petraeus gives his Iraq report. OBL 'says' that the Dems haven't ended the war in Iraq. So if the Dems do say it's time to pull out of Iraq, they're doing what OBL/terrorists want."
I wonder if there have been any independent analysts on this tape yet. I remember on the one he supposedly released before November '04, some professor said it was a fake, but his words didn't reach the M$M.

[rosesaylavee]

103. Good catch - did you know about this though

Websites shut down

The US said that any video message would be closely scrutinised and that efforts to capture the al-Qaeda continued.

Soon after Washington announced it had the video, all the websites that usually carry statements from al-Qaeda went down and were unaccessible, in an unprecedented shutdown, according to the Associated Press news agency.

The reason for the shutdown was not immediately known.

Evan H Kohlmann, an expert at globalterroralert.com, said he suspected it was the work of al-Qaeda itself, trying to find how the video leaked to US officials.

Others suspected US hand behind the shutdown.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/80630CF4-9BC4-481C-B6A0-E0E242136377.htm

Yeah. That's not fishy at all.

[EVDebs]

104. What makes you think they won't send another Oct Surprise video ? eom

[WorseBeforeBetter]

118. To attempt to garner support for the surge ... conveniently timed before the Petraeus report.

Or something unthinkable is about to go down. Iran, in this country, somewhere. The the tape serves as a reminder to Americans that the bogeyman still exists and we need to do WHATEVER we need to do to fight "evil."

Why would OBL decide, after an absence of three years, to magically re-appear now?

[truedelphi]

126. Me too. I consider it a bogeyman scare tactic

Very convenient that it comes out right before the Betrayus reports.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

182. "Betrayus" - good one. (n/t)

[truedelphi]

183. Wish I could claim to have thunk it up

But as usual, one of the more clever minds here at DU beat me to it.

[kenfrequed]

131. This is prep work

Something they can back reference to later as the election gets tighter. It also will allow the re-thugs to run more anti-dem in their anguage during primary season, make outrageous statements and get press coverage for it.

Whatever the source of these OBL tapes it is clear they are part of a political fix.

[BuyingThyme]

18. Has the CIA made a statement yet regarding authenticity?

The last time I paid attention it came within a couple hours.

[canetoad]

25. Needs to be more scrutiny of Site institute

Admittedly, I haven't seen this latest video yet (link anyone?) but all previous screen caps displayed the source as the Site Institute.

If you check their website http://www.siteinstitute.org/index.html there is no mention at all of this latest vid. So where did it come from?

[dailykoff]

23. Note the GOP talking point re. JFK:

Kennedy didn't fail to stop the Vietnam War; the CIA stopped Kennedy so that LBJ could reverse the positive steps he'd already taken to end it, which is probably why they turned Dealy Plaza into a turkey shoot.

[Desertrose]

24. I agree...fake -and where'd he get the dye to darken his beard?

Yeah...sure he's holed up in some cave. Riiight. :eyes:

DR

[sabbat hunter]

29. dyes can be made out of

many things, including what is found in the wild.

you dont need to go to your neighborhood salon or drug store in order to dye clothing, beards, hair, etc.

[earthlover]

71. I heard an expert say that using die on hair would be frowned on in his culture

[NMDemDist2]

85. not so, I was informed today, they are encouraged to do so

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1757866&mesg_id=1757947

[Yupster]

83. They talk of caves, but every time a big AQ guy is caught

it's in a city in Pakistan.

I'm assuming that's where Osama is too.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

113. Perhaps he's in the midst of a mid-life crisis.

Hide the gray, work on the 'ol abs, buy a shiny, red sports car, and get busy with those 72 virgins while still on Earth. Even his nose looks different, and I'm basing that solely on what I watched on KO last night. Did he fly in Dr. 90210?

It's fake and I can't believe my government thinks I'm that stupid. Oh wait, yes I can. He's either dead or as another poster says below, living next to Ken Lay in beach front property.

[SOS]

122. Plastic surgeon who does nose jobs also lives in the cave.....

[kaybea]

184. Great graphic! Not only nose job but orbital bones shaved...

cheekbones flattened, and brows lifted!

[japple]

129. It looks like one of those hook-on beards--the kind they

sell in novelty stores. Or the kind that are used on television comedy programs.

[StarryNite]

26. If would be easy for him to keep up

with our news if he were, say, staying on somebody's ranch in Texas. You know, somebody with whom his family had close ties.

[Karenina]

33. He's been hiding out in a bunker at the pig farm

scarfing Lay's chips and swilling Dr. Pepper since 2001. Check the archives. I called it then! ;-)

[LuckyLib]

115. One of the news programs last night said that the beard might have been fake, that he

is clean-shaven, in hiding . . . I've always maintained he's sitting in a sports bar in San Diego in his khakis and plaid LLBean button down, watching the Padres. ;-)

[Aviation Pro]

27. Also where's any mention of Bush?

So UBL mentions the Democrats but not Bush.

The tape is a fake.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. In your OP. Paragraph 7, word 15, but I still agree it's fake. eom.

[Aviation Pro]

39. Ah, there it is....

...must have skipped over it.

[TrogL]

101. You said you were only going to say that once

[Aviation Pro]

137. Yeah, I did....

...so? :-)

[ClintonTyree]

177. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to OBL......

recruiting wise and for getting Muslims everywhere riled up. He wouldn't want to kill the golden goose. Bush has been an "Allah send" for OBL.

[Flabbergasted]

30. I agree.

[B Calm]

32. What!! You don't believe he's running from cave to cave with his beautician

who dyes his beard and make films from time to time, releasing them when it is critical for Bush to drum up war support?

[Flabbergasted]

43. Uh......Dennis Miller?

[Peace Patriot]

35. I heard someone quoting the things OBL was supposed to have said on this tape,

on the radio a few hours ago, and I....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: and :rofl: -ed!!!!!

It is such a crock of shit, lecturing "the Democrats" on capitalism. I mean, come on.

This is so-o-o-o-o Karl Rove!

[tom_paine]

37. Bushies pretending to be Bin Laden pretending to be a Liberal Democrat

I am surprised it doesn't sound weirder and MORE disjointed considering what it is.

Hell yes, the tape is a fake, but what percentage of Imperial Subjects of Amerika will even bother to notice Bin Laden's suddenly messed up eye, and his dyed beard?

1%? 5%? 10%?

Anybody gullible enough to think more than 10% sure hasn't done a lot of talking to random Imperial Subjects of Amerika, as I have these past seven years.

And Bushler's Propaganda wins again.

Like a Jew in 1937 Germany (which all of us DUers are, metaphorically-speaking) it is quite demoralizing the way these lying murdering Bushies suceed again and again and AGAIN.

[spanone]

40. nothing would surprise me, nothing, absolutely nothing, ziltch, nada, zero, 000

[gateley]

150. Agree. As I read over these posts, it became obvious that We The People

naturally assume that this Admin is giving us tweaked info. Like the boy who cried wolf, can they really expect us to believe anything anymore? On the other hand, if it is legit and the tone is a result of the translation, we still wouldn't believe it. Nice mess we're in. Can you imagine having an Administration who, when info was released, we believed to be true? At this point I'd believe Gravel, Paul and Kucinich -- not 100% about the others -- maybe Biden.

[KoKo]

41. Agree...more propaganda and Matthew's Show was making it to be Hit against Dems

so there's one strike and then that the Osama Tapes always occur at "interesting times."

One would think the "bad guys" in the CIA (Bush bots) would learn not to be so obvious...wouldn't one. :eyes:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

44. Maybe they hired Judith Miller? eom

[BeHereNow]

46. Brief translation: If you side with OBL on these issues, you support TERRORISM.

Complain about corporate hegemony in the ME?
YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN OBL!
Complain about global warming?
YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN OBL!

What utter bullshit and propaganda.

BHN

[Individualist]

97. No doubt at all that's the message the propagandists want to convey,

and it clearly targets progressives.

[Joanne98]

50. I think it's fake too.

[Schema Thing]

52. lol, Just because * doesn't read, doesn't mean Bin Laden doesn't read

Bin Laden is quite well read in "western literature".

[Olney Blue]

53. He doesn't look like a cave dweller.

[glitch]

54. Only their base is dumb enough buy this, and to believe Wahabi = progressive.

The world is no longer laughing at us, they are shaking their heads and avoiding our eyes, deeply embarrassed and ashamed for us, since apparently we aren't capable of it ourselves.

[Lugnut]

55. When I hear the words, "Bin Laden tape"

I assume it's a fake.

[superkia]

57. i cant imagine any of our politicians being involved in the writing.

It looks to me whoever wrote it if it wasn't OBL, is trying to use what our own system is doing against us that we don't like to fire us up against that same system. Now I know no one would leap to say that maybe it is OBL and this is truly why they attack us instead of Bushs excuse that its our freedom that we have here or had here? Sounds like OBL trying to let American people know what is going on from his point of view.

Pointing out that the corporations and money are running and destroying our country as we the people pay the price, talking of misappropriation of wealth. There just seems to be too much truth about our government that I don't think they would want out and thats why you don't hear most of it on the media. Unless of course now the media is controlled anymore?


Just some of the things that I don't think our politicians would promote :


This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children - also in Iraq - as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

As for it's results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief among them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterised by "pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth". This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr to the region.

[kineneb]

58. photo isn't the same person, either

different nose and shape of eye area... study old pix next to the new one. Not same guy. Whole thing= bogus.

[Warren DeMontague]

Last time, they made him sound like Michael Moore. Now he's Al Gore.

:eyes:

[rucky]

61. You do realize now, that any candidate who says anything remotely..

like what "Osama" said will be compared to him.

[TheDoorbellRang]

92. That's just what I thought n/t

[walldude]

62. The fact that he mentioned Chomsky certainly made me

suspicious. Why would he single out Chomsky?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

120. Exactly -- that jumped out immediately. (n/t)

[rudy23]

63. It's designed to get the Dems to run from the progressive wing of the party

because now people will associate those themes with Bin Laden.

And it's going to work.

[Individualist]

98. Exactly!

The AEI probably had some help from DLC in putting this farce together.

This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

[rudy23]

99. I would not be surprised if it were DLC. Nothing surprises me about the DLC--they're like Rove but

smarter.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Look at these pictures from NPR. It looks like a completely different dude.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14248784





Maybe he's supposed to be "older", but the shape of the forehead, the shape of the eyes, the shape of the eyebrows is totally different.

My opinion? Same outfit, different dude.

[PADemD]

74. Agree

His left eyebrow in the older picture is straight. It is curved in the new picture.

[truedelphi]

127. Plus why would he be wearing the same outfit?

After three years, wouldn't he need a change of clothes??

[BrklynLiberal]

154. Newer photo looks more like Saddam Hussein than OBL.

[Warren DeMontague]

160. Yeah, I noticed that too.

I wonder if that was some sort of Freudian slip.

[RaleighNCDUer]

168. Even that "same outfit":

it hangs differently on #2 than on #1 - #2 is more broadshouldered and deep chested. Definitely more robust than #1.

[eridani]

68. Wondering why nobody ever brings up voice-morphing on these threads?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=358&topic_id=3185

[book_worm]

70. well then the media, including KO have been taken in

I don't think it's fake.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

119. Corporate Media is complicit. (n/t)

[kenfrequed]

132. The biggies

That is the main media outlets are cowards. The have calculated the amount of reputation damage they would assume in challenging these tapes and compared it to the damage they might take if it later comes out that the tapes were lies.

Judith Miller taught them this. They can later jsut wring their hands and whine "oh we were lied to, oh my whatever shall we do but have another orgy of self-analysis without actually finding the problem."

They are complicit only as much as their silence in investigation would suggest. Part of the conspiracy? No. But surely cowards for not investigating it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

170. It's been 'certified' by the FBI, so without specific contrary information

KO can hardly call it a fake publicly. It would then be used by the Bushbots to impugn his credibility.

[orleans]

72. michael scheurer said this is a tape before another attack

because he is saying there will be another attack and invites us to join islam and those are the rules before a strike--warning, and invitation

(i haven't read the transcript--does he say there will be another attack?)

[RaleighNCDUer]

172. So where was the warning and invitation before 9/11? Before the

embassy bombings? Before the Cole attack?

[orleans]

180. maybe he did but we never saw it because there was no youtube. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. And I will repeat what I have said somewhere else

it does not matter.

The question you should be pushing is not whether this is real ornot, but what the hell is this man still doing sending love letters to our media, instead of being six feet under?

Remember bush, dead or alive... why hasn't this man been caught?

(Incidentally some of the things in that tape do fit the ideology of the Muslim brotherhood and its founder, Katib... assumiing for a second that this is real, Al Zahari wrote it)

[AntiFascist]

133. The right-wing Muslim Brotherhood fought communism....

why would he now seem to be supporting communism? It seems that back when he was being supported by the CIA to fight the Soviet Union he bought into the whole "Godless Communism" rhetoric.

[leeroysphitz]

76. Sounds like Goldsteinism. nt

[B Calm]

96. Very much so..

[Major Hogwash]

77. It is so bad, it looks like O'Reilly dressed up as bin Laden for this tape!

It's the worst impersonation of bin Laden I've ever seen!

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. While I have heard only a few snippits quoted on the teevee, I thought it sounded like a SCRIPT

written by the WH. ESPECIALLY the ..."Why have the Democrats failed to stop this war, despite them being the majority?"

PUHLEEEEEZE.

I agree. The tape is a fake.

[FredStembottom]

80. This has the wrong ring to it - for me:

"To conclude, I invite you to embrace Islam". "...to die outside of Islam"

Strict adherents to religions don't use the generic, corporate name given to their religion when urging others to convert.

The televangelists never say "I urge you to convert to Christianity". They say "Give your heart to Jesus!"

I can't help but feel that OBL would say "embrace Allah" and "...to die outside Allah's blessing" - or some such.

[Vidar]

81. Of course it its.

[chknltl]

82. What's this? Osama's dissen the Dems now?????

So I suppose he is testin the waters, he's thinkin about throwin his turban into the ring as a republican. Sheesh, just when you think the neo-nuts couldn't sink any lower! This means bush will have to give OBL a Presidential Pardon and tweak the Constitution a bit in regards to the requirements to being a POTUS...(you have to admit bush has been playen fast and loose with the Constitution!)

So those whacky repugs are thinkin about running OBL...well I suppose he could be more popular than Tancredo and with a little work...who knows??? Next thing you know we'll be seing him anouncing on Letterman! He might even get gingrich or rove to be campaign manager. The very thought of a turbaned-turdblossom makes me want to get VERY VERY drunk!

OBL will easily get the Anti-Hillary votes, perhaps even securing a few from right here in the DU from what I can tell! (Have you seen some of THOSE threads???) If he promises to lift the ban on assault rifles, allowing those who pass the NRA guidelines for gun ownership to own FULLY AUTOMATIC AK-47s he should easily secure the gun nutters votes too!

I'll bet he's gonna promise to have our troops home by Ramadan thereby quelling any fears of a potential surge into Iran... thus stealing away the Ron Paul backers!

From what I can tell he does not speak or write english very well, making him one with most of the members of the free republic...those guys just might appreciate the camaraderie...(boy wouldn't it be funny seeing anne coulter in a burkha as a faux news anchor!)

Hmmm...this could turn into a tighter race than we thought....I wonder what OBL's views are on the abortion issue??? If he is a 'right to lifer' we may be in deep trouble gang!

[Control-Z]

84. Leno is already making fun.

I would guess Letterman's at it as well. Is anyone gonna buy this crap?

[arewenotdemo]

86. Not a fake.

It's simply our bad luck that Osama is clearly more intelligent and more articulate than the knuckledragger that cuts farts in the Oval Office these days.

Why would the Nazis take the huge risk of getting caught at producing such a video?

Especially when every time Osama shows his face the American public is potentially reminded of Bush's utter failure to avenge 9/11.

[earthlover]

87. the tape didn't help Kerry....even though by this logic, it should have

Every time been forgotten is trotted out on tape, it brings back the security issue into people's focus. it reminds people of 9/11. when people fear, they tend to support their leaders. it is psychologically difficult to be fearful and believe their leaders are incompetent boobs.

[malaise]

88. Duh!

Bin Laden is a fake period. He's been declared dead three times. I swear he is Bush and Cheney's Santa Claus. I'm betting he'll die for the 4th time just before the 2008 elections. I can't believe this bullshit.

[hack89]

89. We know that brown people can't be deucated and literate

don't we? Despite that fact that he is college educated and a savvy leaser, we know he is completely unable to understand his enemy and tailor a message for them.

I have no idea if the video is real or not but your theory disturbing for a progressive board.

[FearofFutility]

94. I found another, more believable, Osama tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUsvMDIiFA

[B Calm]

95. There is something very sinister about the republican party.......

They'll do anything to promote fear to stay in power. I think they will be even more sinister when they lose power. Imagine another 9-11 event under democratic rule..

[rosesaylavee]

102. Adel Darwish editor of Middle East magazine agrees with you...

Adel Darwish, political editor of Middle East magazine, told Al Jazeera that he had "doubts" about the authenticity of the tape.

"Any kid these days with an electronic kit can alter images and edit the way that he or she likes," he said on Friday.

"There is no close-up of bin Laden, the beard is thick and black and then there are large segments where the image is a still."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6802B0DA-6818-4277-A334-1E67824137E4.htm

[EVDebs]

107. The military has voice morphing technology since 1999. Read Wm Arkin's fine article

When seeing and hearing isn't believing
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

[gateley]

156. Wow -- fascinating article & food for thought -- thanks! n/t

[go west young man]

105. Plus you gotta give him credit for his sublime plug for Grecian Formula 44

even though he is a radical fundamentalist that would never embrace a vanity or consumerism. Maybe he just found a real good bargain and couldn't help himself as he felt a little dusty lately.

[EVDebs]

108. The nosejob is also a botched job too. He should sue ! nt

[AikidoSoul]

106. AlJazeera reports "Authentiicity doubted"

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6802B0DA-6818-4277-A334-1E67824137E4.htm

SNIP

Authenticity doubted

Adel Darwish, political editor of Middle East magazine, told Al Jazeera that he had "doubts" about the authenticity of the tape.

"Any kid these days with an electronic kit can alter images and edit the way that he or she likes," he said on Friday.


"There is no close-up of bin Laden, the beard is thick and black and then there are large segments where the image is a still."


Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera's senior political analyst, said bin Laden had released the video to tell the Americans that he was still alive and still leading.

" underlines the strength of words in this new asymmetrical warfare in the 21st century between the US and al-Qaeda," he said.

Bin Laden was last seen in a video statement shortly before the US presidential election in 2004.

Since then, he has issued a number of audio messages, the last in July 2006 when he vowed al-Qaeda would fight the US across the world.

SNIP

[frogcycle]

110. somebody correct me if i misrecall

but was not the sequence of events that:

• an announcement came out on an arab-language website predicting release of a tape
  
• the website crashed
  
• WH said it had and was reviewing the tape
  
• govt agencies said it looked legit
  
• tape became available
  
• bush made inane remarks about it
  

Anybody think this was not a staged event?

[everydayis911]

111. Well you know

I find this tape like all other things Bush FAKE. Sounds like Osama has been listening to Faux Noise. Maybe Karl Rove works for Osama now. It's just another distraction tactic for something big to come probably in a few weeks or sooner. I just wonder what city is going to be sacrificed this time. Are they going to use nukes? It would not surprise me at all.

[Einsteinia]

112. Can you say, "Clutch Cargo"?

The whole series of soft mumbling voice overs has been fake. I particularly love the Photoshoped gold curtains in some of them.

[Spazito]

116. It is interesting, your OP induced me to go back and look at the

transcript of the bin Laden tape from Nov/Dec 2001 re 9/11 to see if/how the syntax differs from this transcript. (I believe the bin Laden tape from 2001 was genuine). It seems the bin Laden from 9001 often spoke using, for lack of a better word, parables, to make his point whereas this transcript shows no such use. Here is the transcript from 2001:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/tape.transcript/

[shimbo]

117. Clue Time

This appears to be the comments of someone who reads the NY Times and other western literature, not a radical fundamentalist."

It's always been clear that Bin Laden reads Western literature and bases strategy on it.

The WTC attack is rooted in the idea that America is economically unstable, an idea he apparently lifted from "The Great Reckoning", and includes ideas from "Clash of Civilizations". The attack was purposely executed during a period of economic weakness.

[Aviation Pro]

138. Welcome to DU....

...enjoy your stay.

[eallen]

144. Bingo. Fundamentalism is a reaction to modernity.

Where we should be banging on the Bushies is precisely that bin Laden is still free. Because they used 9/11 as an excuse to start a war in Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11.

:hippie:

[Warren DeMontague]

146. Not only that, but the Bush admin. is chock to the gills with anti-modern Fundamentalists,

themselves.

[Warren DeMontague]

145. Whatever the hypothetical boogeyman who is dragged out at politically convenient times may or

may not read, that tape smells like utter bullshit to me.

It's a guy in a turban with a big nose and a beard: "Oh, shit, it must be Osama Bin Laden"





Look at the shape of the eyes. The shape of the eyebrows. You could put Gore Vidal in a long beard and some denim and try to pass him off as a member of ZZ Top, too, but that wouldn't make it so. If anything, this new dude looks more like Saddam Hussein than OBL, which may be a little subconscious wish fulfillment on the part of whoever concocted this thing.

[Kajsa]

121. The content was probably written by

Adam Gadahn of Orange County, Calif.
He's proclaimed himself to be a member of Al Qaeda.
No doubt he's way up the ranks with his background and translation
skills. it sounds like him.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Investigation/story?id=1115448&page=1

Yes, that Orange County, Republican Central.

[OnyxCollie]

123. The last Osama tape sounded like English translated into Arabic.

It was dismissed with, "Well, he's hiding out with the Pashtun, and uh, that's why he sounds different. Look at the shiny keys! Look! Look!"

Now we get an Osama with a different beard, different eyebrows, and comments that would persuade someone to think that Osama's beliefs mirror progressive ideals.

It's like the switch out of Dick York for Dick Sargent on Bewitched.

Fun fact: Dick Sargent's birth name was Richard Cox (Dick Cox, ouch).

[CGowen]

124. FOX News Report: Bin Laden Already Dead; Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Report: Bin Laden Already Dead

Wednesday, December 26, 2001


Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

[tomreedtoon]

125. It's impossible for us to verify that tape.

First, we would need the actual tapes, not any tapes doctored by the government, and in the original whatever-the-hell-language bin Laden speaks. Probably impossible to get those.

Second, we would need a translator for the whatever-the-hell-language, who ALSO had a good ear for human voices, rhythms, inflections, et cetera. There we might have a bit better luck; the Bushies fired a bunch of them for being gay. I don't think the rest of us would have a problem with that.

That person would have to decide whether the "original" bin Laden tapes match the current one.

For that matter, does it matter? Nobody here has been able to verify that bin Laden is still alive anyway. The person who made the tape may be the "new" bin Laden, maybe his illegitimate son by Barbara Bush, who's taken over the family's terrorism business from Dad.

It is a false idea that the word use disproves the validity of the tape. It's a translation, after all, by a Bushie who has an agenda - and probably has read too many wordy, blowsy, intellectual-sounding National Review articles to remember how to speak like a normal human.

[AntiFascist]

130. How convenient....

Now, if one is a Democrat, or fights global warming, or fights big corporate power, or embraces Islam (radical or not), one can now be associated with Osama bin Ladin. "You're either with us or with the terrorists." Why do I think he still works for the right wing of the CIA?

[Fearless]

134. Who did the translation?

[kenfrequed]

135. which one?

The translation from english to arabic by whoever cooked up these phoney tapes?

Or the translation from arabic back to english for the sheep that watch Faux news?

[Fearless]

136. Who was it that translated what he may or may not have said from Arabic

If it was a republican organization or a party faithful to their cause in Iraq/Afghanistan, then the tape need not be fake. It could be real. They could have just fudged what he said to fulfill their political goals. Whose going to debate that? Translations from Arabic are difficult at best into English.

[kenfrequed]

148. meh

Possibly, the problem is if there is audio to the tape then the story can easily be smashed. The only way for the Neo-con job to work would be to have them tape it which is something very easy for them to do.

[Fearless]

165. Perhaps

Actually another thread was started a little while after this one based off a CNN story about investigating the issue of whether or not it was real.

[Emit]

179. MEMRI does a lot of translations from arab newspapers that are aired on US tv

but I can't find any note of who translated this video

http://memri.org/index.html

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1511

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html

[Emit]

185. Looks like SITE did the translation

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1764233&mesg_id=1768956

[peacetheonlyway]

139. you're spot on

the guy doesn't even look vaguely similar to bin laden.

it's either a pissed off progressive trying to tell the democrats to piss or get off the pot, or it's the Psych Warfare division of the pentagon with some really bad video editing software.

[2beToby]

140. I've got 3 minutes of the video from liveleak

OBL Video via Liveleak


I make no claims to being a video analyst, but at least I can finally see for myself.

Edit: Wow, I'm real smooth. The same site has the full 26 minutes message here
Full Version

[Teena]

149. Here's the weird thing about the first bin Laden video....

the fake bin Laden spoke as if he didn't even know anyone was going to do 9/11!

That makes perfect sense that they had him saying that because then the CIA cannot be made to produce evidence that they were investigating him in advance of it. If they had no evidence gathered, as we now know they didn't, they can just say - "See? Even Bin Laden himself didn't even know the 19 high-jackers were going to do it." That also gets the Bush administration off the hook as well.

They would like us to believe that Mohmmad Atta - the supposed ring-leader - cooked up the whole thing. Oddly enough, isn't he the guy several people saw aboard one of Jack Abramoff's gambling boats? Uh, huh. But Atta is supposed to be dead so there is no one to charge with the crime.

[gateley]

163. Check out 1:39 - 1:40 on the tape -- is that an OBVIOUS cut, or is it just me? n/t

[2beToby]

164. It's an obvious something,

I just don't know what...

I wish I could hear what people from other countries are saying about this tape.

[BlueJac]

141. That was film at Crawford, Texas

Bush's ranch is a great place to hide.

[dailykoff]

142. Just in time for Halloween!

Get your OBL fake beard and CIA decoder ring now!

[debbierlus]

143. The fact they are so blatant & the media doesn't even raise a question is DISGUSTING

[B Calm]

181. Oh man... that's exactly what I been thinking too..

[Fire Walk With Me]

147. Would it be suprising if Bin Laden could access the same internet sites that we do?

Wouldn't it make you feel dirty if Bush read DU?

[Teena]

152. Nope!

Just keep it real and they can't do a thing to you. The CIA admits to reading our posts already to keep us safe, you know - so what's the big deal?

By the way - Bin Laden is long dead.

[BlooInBloo]

151. Sayeth the counterfeit tape expert.

[Aviation Pro]

155. I never said I was an expert....

...I say it's an elaborate forgery. Has this filthy, disgusting administration done or said anything in the last seven years that tells you that this is not a lie? You can badger me all you want with the usual meme of "show me your proof!" But in the end they, the scumbags who have been effing up this country and the world, have the burden of proof.

[Major Hogwash]

173. You don't have to be, it's obvious. I've got a beard just like the Osama in this video.

I bought it for $5 at the local costume shop!

Muslims don't dye their beards!

[BrklynLiberal]

153. It would come asno shock to me to find out that the entire tape was a fake.

[Aviation Pro]

157. Another thought....(global warming link)

...the reference to "global warming" by the counterfeit bin Laden is a direct link to President Gore.

[Warren DeMontague]

162. 'Course. All they need now is for him to come out for Plan B Contraception and the teaching of

evolution in public schools in Kansas. :eyes:

[Historic NY]

158. Okay who sent OBL the Grecian formula..................

has his nose gotten bigger, he reminds me of some of my Slavic friends, big hands,ears and facial features.

[zalinda]

166. Calling Larry Flynt......we need a distraction from

the fake bin Laden tape.

zalinda

[whistle]

174. I second that, now who faked it and why?

[Honeycombe8]

175. Hmmm. That does sound suspicious...maybe. But the Islamic fundies DO read...

western news accounts and keep up with politics. They use the internet, so they probably read the newspapers on the Net. These aren't stupid people.

[autorank]

176. I've wondered about this. I just assume they're lying all the time.

Old Bin has a habit of showing up at just the right time for the Republicans.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

178. The Google

Language Tools.

[Babsbrain]

186. I am dumbfounded that ANYONE would believe this is real

Run these two videos side by side:
http://www.lauramansfield.com/obl_9907.rm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CnDOm67O28

One is from 2004 and the other is the current one.

There are whole sections that are carbon copies of each other.
This is a very badly done engineering job.

Doesn't anyone wonder why the majority of the tape is a still picture? Which is shown twice?

[Emit]

187. I see the similarity, same background, but the figures are different. I also noticed that a 1:58

the more recent video stops and goes to still frame until the end. What is up with that?

[Babsbrain]

188. How do the figures look different to you?

There is amazing similarity in the two videos.

The voices, when you play both videos together, are not the same.

The current video has jerky engineering for about two minutes, then the still picture for a long time, then some video, then it switches back to the original still picture. You can prove that by rewinding the second still back to the first and they are identical. This proves that it is engineered. And done so badly.

Watch the hands in the newest video.

I actually think this is the product of a couple of 14 year olds.

[Emit]

189. The color of the beard, for one.

:shrug:


Also, the attire of the two men are very similar, but arranged differently.

Are you sure you're looking at the two different tapes?

And, on the new video, it stills after 1:58, and never resumes.

[Babsbrain]

190. Well. ya got me on the beard thing.

There does seem to be some difference in beards. LOL

The recent video stops but then resumes again about halfway...when he is saying 'money talks'. It then reverts to the first still picture for the remainder of the video. I don't have a timer...using real networks to view the video.

Maybe you are using a different viewer?

[Emit]

191. I see now where it resumes and then stops again -- it actually reverts back to the original still

image. Very weird.

[Emit]

192. Here's an explanation of the stop-start thing

Latest Bin Laden Video Is a Forgery: All References to Current Events Are Made During Video Freeze
by George Maschke
Sun Sep 9th, 2007 at 06:10:31 AM EST

Osama Bin Laden's widely publicized video address to the American people has a peculiarity that casts serious doubt on its authenticity: the video freezes at about 1 minute and 36 58 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The audio track does appear to be in the voice of a single speaker. What I suspect was done is that an older, unreleased video was dubbed over for this release, with the video frozen when the audio track departed from that of the original video.

LINK

That would give credence to your thoughts that this tape is an old one.