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The Dems were really stupid to cave in on the funding.

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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:15 PM
Original message
The Dems were really stupid to cave in on the funding.

They could have sent another Bill upping the ante, knowing that it would be vetoed. Then that veto would not have been over ridden, as they knew it would not, but it would have made them appear strong. All the while they could still be secretly supporting the US Occupation, which most of them do support. Will the Dems be stupid again in the next round? Yeah. They are too stupid to play their game and look like winners, instead of whiners.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. muckraking?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I am viewing the situation and expressing a conclusion.
Disagreements are welcome.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I understand. It's been used to describe uncovering corruption
I should recognize that's the most understood definition today.

Here's where I'm coming from in my own uneducated usage:


The Man with the Muck Rake

By Theodore Roosevelt
April 15th, 1906

{snip}

In “Pilgrim's Progress” the Man with the Muck Rake is set forth as the example of him whose vision is fixed on carnal instead of spiritual things. Yet he also typifies the man who in this life consistently refuses to see aught that is lofty, and fixes his eyes with solemn intentness only on that which is vile and debasing.

Now, it is very necessary that we should not flinch from seeing what is vile and debasing. There is filth on the floor, and it must be scraped up with the muck rake; and there are times and places where this service is the most needed of all the services that can be performed. But the man who never does anything else, who never thinks or speaks or writes, save of his feats with the muck rake, speedily becomes, not a help but one of the most potent forces for evil.

There are in the body politic, economic and social, many and grave evils, and there is urgent necessity for the sternest war upon them. There should be relentless exposure of and attack upon every evil man, whether politician or business man, every evil practice, whether in politics, business, or social life. I hail as a benefactor every writer or speaker, every man who, on the platform or in a book, magazine, or newspaper, with merciless severity makes such attack, provided always that he in his turn remembers that the attack is of use only if it is absolutely truthful.

The liar is no whit better than the thief, and if his mendacity takes the form of slander he may be worse than most thieves. It puts a premium upon knavery untruthfully to attack an honest man, or even with hysterical exaggeration to assail a bad man with untruth.

An epidemic of indiscriminate assault upon character does no good, but very great harm. The soul of every scoundrel is gladdened whenever an honest man is assailed, or even when a scoundrel is untruthfully assailed.

Now, it is easy to twist out of shape what I have just said, easy to affect to misunderstand it, and if it is slurred over in repetition not difficult really to misunderstand it. Some persons are sincerely incapable of understanding that to denounce mud slinging does not mean the endorsement of whitewashing; and both the interested individuals who need whitewashing and those others who practice mud slinging like to encourage such confusion of ideas.

One of the chief counts against those who make indiscriminate assault upon men in business or men in public life is that they invite a reaction which is sure to tell powerfully in favor of the unscrupulous scoundrel who really ought to be attacked, who ought to be exposed, who ought, if possible, to be put in the penitentiary. If Aristides is praised overmuch as just, people get tired of hearing it; and overcensure of the unjust finally and from similar reasons results in their favor.

Any excess is almost sure to invite a reaction; and, unfortunately, the reactions instead of taking the form of punishment of those guilty of the excess, is apt to take the form either of punishment of the unoffending or of giving immunity, and even strength, to offenders. The effort to make financial or political profit out of the destruction of character can only result in public calamity. Gross and reckless assaults on character, whether on the stump or in newspaper, magazine, or book, create a morbid and vicious public sentiment, and at the same time act as a profound deterrent to able men of normal sensitiveness and tend to prevent them from entering the public service at any price . . .


speech: http://www.quotedb.com/speeches/man-with-the-muck-rake
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't think they understood the symbolic importance of taking W down a notch...
The man has been ALLOWED to run rough-shod and shit over this country in spite of a Democratic Senate, Congress and approval ratings in the 20's...

By letting Bush get his way, EVERY FUCKING TIME, Democrats are doing the neo-con's job of convincing people that government doesn't WORK - that government isn't the "tool" through which people can change things...

Do they have a veto-proof override majority? No. They don't need one to FORCE the Republicans to COME TO THE FUCKING TABLE, rather than just have us approve THEIR agenda and continue to chalk it up to "wait until '08"...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. If they don't continue to fund the war or
if they deauthorize the war, bush can't veto anything.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. All the Republicans have to do is say, "See? They're soft on terror."
The Dems will cave every time. They can't figure out how to get past that talking point.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Dems are afraid of what the public feels about them.
Edited on Sat Sep-08-07 06:46 PM by Disturbed
Rethugs don't care so much. Dems do not know how to fight the Rethugs & frame the talking points. Well, I mean most Dems. The other framing is "support the troops". Who really supports them? It sure as Hell is not the Rethugs. Dems, for the most part, are inept at fighting the Rethug Machine.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Actually, they can figure it out perfectly well, but they won't.
They're quislings. Traitors. All they will do is give us lip service while they continue to sell out the country.

This country so badly needs a revolution.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. A Revolution is remote.
Most Americans are apathetic. They feel powerless & hate politics & politicians. The Mass Media is more of a PR arm for the the Regime in power & most Americans care more about Entertainment & Sports than they do about how Govt. is operating. Both parties play their games on America & divide the spoils.The only reason Iraq is an issue is because of the losing of it. Had the US Regime prevailed it would be a non issue. The Dems are counting on the Rethugs to implode, so the choice has to be Dems.
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