Biden just depressed the living shit out of me

[spanone]

they are going to fund this war.....he just said as much.

enough for one day.

[liberalmuse]

1. We have no real representation.

The Republicans are anti-American facist thugs, but without the weak-kneed Democrats now in power enabling them, they wouldn't get away with turning America into the next Nazi Germany. I wish we could purge the lot of them. I wish we could clone the Black Caucus, Kucinich and Feingold. The rest can go to hell.

[peacetalksforall]

7. Yes, we should try referring to BC, K and F, then define it - perhaps

it would sink in with some. We ARE NOT represented by Democrats except BC, K and F.

I will edit my post below to include Feingold and the Black Caucus.

[peacetalksforall]

12. The list of thos disappointing are surprising and expected.

Clinton and Shurmer - expected

Kerry and Kennedy - not

We need to talk Iran in parallel. I fear that what they are agreeing to includes a secret pact to throw in Iran.

I will accept all reasoned arguments against that fear.

[Cha]

32. You've got their

number! Fucking dinos WANT THAT OIL, too!

[peacetalksforall]

2. I assume Iraq? Since no one NO ONE of our leaders will talk

about Iran except Kucinich Feingold Black Caucus. I can't bear listening to our so-called leaders. So, Biden is talking Iraq?

[Hamlette]

3. if you know Bush won't withdraw troops would you defund the war?

I remember debating this for 7 years in Vietnam before the dems finally defunded the war but by then most of the troops were home. I thought Biden made the best argument I've heard so far.

[NNN0LHI]

5. Bush would let them all die and blame the entire fiasco on the Democrats

And that strategy would probably work too.

Don

[derby378]

6. Those who fund the war fund the raping of innocent Iraqi girls

Make that the starting point of the debate over Iraq. Every day the occupation drags on is another day that the list of atrocities against the Iraqi people is compounded.

[cali]

8. Yeah, that's an argument that will go over well

with the American people. Not.

[ProSense]

11. That's the same BS argument they used in May

when the voted to continue funding this catastrophe

[OzarkDem]

4. So, uninsured cancer patients can't get help

but we can afford the cost of funding an illegal and unnecessary war in Iraq all on our own without any help from another country.

[derby378]

14. Cancer patients left to die because there's an Iraqi girl who hasn't been raped yet

Here's a partial list of Bush-enabling DINOs and some of the Democratic candidates who will challenge them in 2008:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1519118

[OzarkDem]

20. We need more Democrats

in the Democratic party. Our greatest weakness at this time is the non-Dems who get elected under the party's banner for political convenience.

[patrioticintellect]

9. Of course Biden is...

And of course, Edwards, Clinton, Dodd, and Obama will too.

And Edwards will stand up and say, "No funding. No excuses." But that's the biggest load of BS ever because for one, where does one go after that? What do we do? That's all anti- and no pro-. It provides us with no way out of this mess even if it stands up to Bush and sends him a message. Bush isn't going to ever EVER be okay with pulling out troops NOW or in the future or before he is done with his presidency.

That said, the Democrats need to be for defunding the war, using already appropriated funds to bring the troops home, and instituting an international peacekeeping and security force in Iraq to stabilize the chaos we have failed to stabilize.

It is time for all those who are supporting other candidates besides Dennis Kucinich, whose 12-point plan is the defunding the war plan that I just spoke of, to stand up and demand that their candidate defund or else, leave him. Come and support Dennis.

Also, start sending messages to the media, to newspapers, call in to talk radio, post all over the internet, or write something. Demand that his plan be discussed and debated in Congress. Whether you think he is fit to be president or not, this is a man who is the purest anti-war candidate and knows better than any politician in our government how to get out of this war and head towards peace and sustainability. He voted against the authorization for war in Iraq and he has voted against funding. He also unlike the other candidates has voted against all antagonistic measures that have been passed in respect to Iran which will at this rate lead inevitably to war with Iran.

It's up to people like you who are on DemocraticUnderground to stand up and take charge. We can get out now. The Democrats, however, want to preserve a possible presidential win in 2008. And the Republicans want to keep going because they know Democrats will self-destruct. The only way out is to change up the dialogue on this war.

Start talking defunding and Kucinich's 12-Point Plan. It's the one sure way out of this mess.

[spanone]

10. I'm leaning to Kucinich every damn day....someone who stands up to this regime

biden called it bu$hs' war.....hey joe, next year it will be YOUR war.

[patrioticintellect]

17. Imagine this Obamites, Clintonites, and Edwardsites, Doddites, and Bidenites

Imagine not having to work to get your candidate to support a policy for BRINGING THE TROOPS HOME NOW.

Imagine not having to worry that your candidate will support a war with Iran.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate supporting nuclear weapons.

Imagine not having to worry about whether or not your candidate is anti-war enough.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate continuing the PATRIOT Act.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate's stance on the Kyoto Protocol.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate's support for NAFTA.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate not supporting a shift to a new health care system that would benefit and lift Americans.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate's weaknesses in regards to corporate or special interests.

Imagine not having to worry about your candidate's campaign funds because your candidate is only accepting money from "grassroots" support.

Imagine sitting back and waiting for people to wake up and join you.

Imagine supporting Dennis Kucinich.

[spanone]

18. It's no longer imaginary......

[patrioticintellect]

28. To all those done imagining...

Join the Action Center at Dennis4President.com today. Or how about, right now. It's free...you get a profile and unlimited posting of whatever you want unlike Obama's, Edwards', Richardson's, or Clinton's website/blog. Plus, you get to meet more great American citizens like yourself.

Rule of Thumb

If your candidate is in any way frustrating you, join the Kucinich campaign. I promise he will never let you down. And in the meantime, you will be part of a revolution.

Politics & life don't get much better than that.

[spanone]

29. DONE

[beachmom]

13. So you suggest we just not send a bill? that's ridiculous. What

we want is a change in policy, and a FUTURE cutoff in funding with notice (a deadline -- which is the Reid/Feingold resolution). We can only get that with 67 votes.

There is NO SUPPORT for a sudden cutoff of funding in the Senate, by refusing to pass a bill. Even Feingold is against that.

[spanone]

15. Fund the withdrawal. that's my ridiculous idea. yes

[beachmom]

19. You need 67 votes to mandate funding that withdrawal.

Without it being in the law it is simply continued funding as Biden explained.

Then when Bush needs another funding bill, he will say so and laugh at anyone who said the last one was to fund the withdrawal, since it would NEVER get the votes to pass, with that provision in it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here; I'm trying to explain the reality.

[spanone]

23. I know the reality. The reality is that they could make one hell of a statement.

They could tend to their flock. They could stand in unison.

[beachmom]

34. The reality is that is not going to happen, when even people like Feingold

don't support that. Now, what most Democrats would like to do is to send a STRINGS ATTACHED bill to Bush. But we don't have the votes to overcome a filibuster for the Reid/Feingold bill, or the timetable (last I heard). That is what they are working on negotiations for now. Perhaps using the word "goal" and a date. That is not nothing, and will definitely piss off Bush.

[spanone]

37. they will attach NOTHING to the bill and you know that.

[beachmom]

39. No, they are working on an amendment right now. People

are disappointed in what they've heard, but they are working on it. The moderate R's have been awfully quiet, I noticed, which means they're still in play.

[spanone]

40. We'll see about that. Biden sure didn't give any hint of it.

[beachmom]

45. Biden is running for president and is not part of the negotiations

currently under way. At least that I am aware of.

[peacetalksforall]

16. A thought - we continually talk about the design of progaganda

by the WH to keep the nation in fear.

Some Democrats hold the same fear of their own representatives.

I refuse to believe that the Cheney administration has something on our representatives or that they are mesmerized by the charm of Bush - this has to be because of their (our Dem leaders) gift to the corporations and barons.

[amandabeech]

21. Biden just said that we need 67 votes in the Senate to override Shrub's inevitable veto.

Until Harry Reid can line up 67 votes, I don't think that we'll see any withdrawal motion unless Reid wants folks to stand up and be counted.

We can talk all we want here, but really, we need veto-proof majorities in Congress with a war supporter in the White House. If one of our anti-war candidates makes it to the White House, we'll be okay with ordinary majorities.

[Skidmore]

22. Time to start voting out incumbents, Biden included.

[amandabeech]

30. Actually, we'll vote our both incumbents and Shrub at the same time.

That Nov. 2008. There's not much we can do from now 'til then, except work for campaigns.

[Eurobabe]

24. Yep, I couldn't believe my ears either

Playing right into Asshat's hands, give these bastard GOPers more money, watch them hand this Iraq disaster off to the new president.

[Wiregrass Willie]

25. What depressed me most ..

was when Russert implied that Gen. Petraeus may be less than forthcoming (which surprised me) Biden jumps up and talks about what a great and honorable man the general is. That may be true, but if our Representatives have so little intelligence as to fail to question the good man honestly, where will we all end up ? With a few more years of occupation (there is no war) -- I'd wager.

Question him, Xerox, question him !

[aquart]

26. There's a reason Biden is on this show.

And it ain't because he speaks truth to power.

[spanone]

27. They should have had Dennis Kucinich. Amen.

[Cha]

31. Where the fuck is all the money

coming from and the Blood? I hope those assholes in congress are replaced by representatives who REALLY represent the people, SOMEDAY!!

The greedy monsters WANT THAT OIL.

[spanone]

33. If we get a democratic president AND congress...WE will own this war. Lock stock & barrel.

and i have no confidence the democrats will end it.

[Cha]

38. If it keeps going badly like it

was doomed from the fucking beginning then the American People should THROW THE BUMS OUT. There is such a thing as a complete shake-up and removal of cancerous growth. Fuck the OIL.

[spanone]

35. wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september wait till septemb

er, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september, wait till september,

[OneBlueSky]

42. um . . . maybe they meant september 2008? . . . n/t

.

[spanone]

43. you're probably correct...i think it will be waaaay too late

democrats could be in serious trouble by then

[Venus Dog]

36. It's usually a good thing to be suspect of anyone hanging around Congress as long as Biden has

and I'm not singling him out - there's many of them - Dem or repuke. No one should be in that position for as long as they have.

[Individualist]

41. Just as I expected

Maybe it's time to change the name of the party to the Origami party.

[cboy4]

44. I'd be curious to know who felt Biden's performance today

helped his campaign.

I thought he really hurt himself, especially with that dramatic talk about why Bush deserves billions more to continue the nightmare in Iraq.

Especially when the previous guests suggested it could take another five years to train the Iraqi police forced.

Boy oh boy.

[Frogger]

46. What's the

good of having Congress if they are just going to play footsie with the Repukesx(

[BlooInBloo]

47. He doesn't depress me. What depresses me is that some people actually WANT him...

.... to be President.

Joe "More War" Biden - fucking our troops like he already fucked over catastrophic medical event victims.