If you want the war to end a fast as possible the only solution is a draft.

[Neshanic]

Yes, that will end the war. Quickly.

I want this war to end. Everyone here wants it to end. We cannot control the outcome of this mess , when it is being used like a hammer over the heads of everyone against it by the Neocons. To take away all the "Surge", and Bush using it as a personal republican tool to keep everyone running in circles screaming, and arguing about the report, which report, and timing it to result in another republican in the White House it must be done.

The war will screech to a halt when everyone republican is on the line, and start proceedings to gear it up.

Then see how fast the republicans run to cover.

[ThomWV]

1. It is not the 'only' fast solution. Impeachment would do the same but faster.

[Neshanic]

3. We do not do the "impeachment thing" remember?

The hearings that would start that would be televised would shut the war down cold. The republicans would be terrified.

[Captain Hilts]

2. True. Men and women. nt

[Warpy]

5. Women? Sure, as soon as men have babies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Yes WOMEN

and I promise they won't even break a nail either

You want equality, be willing to pay in the good, the bad and the ugly

[NotGivingUp]

24. we do not have equality,..if we don't get all the good, we're not taking all the bad and the ugly.nt

[BlooInBloo]

20. I don't get the connection.

[Warpy]

40. We already risk our lives giving birth

and forcing us into the military during the safest of those years is lunacy.

When men give birth, we'll talk about equal responsibilities in wars of corporate convenience.

[BlooInBloo]

43. Gotcha.

[wuushew]

44. Reproduction is not obligatory

current population levels can be maintained or expanded solely through immigration.

[Warpy]

46. Again, bullshit.

Better check out a few figures, there.

[Warpy]

4. Hell no, it won't!

There are too many Middle American fools who support a draft as one's patriotic duty, an honor to serve, make a man out of Junior, blah blah blah.

All a damned draft will do is give a madman unlimited access to working class kids to blow up in Iran and Syria and wherever else he decides to steal some oil.

NO DRAFT!

We've already done this experiment after WWII and it was a fucking FAILURE.

[Neshanic]

6. The hearings starting alone would freak the nation into action.

That's all it would take. Then watch as the republicans peel off at light speed. The whole national discussion of the war would change in days. The republicans would be at wits end trying to cover the bases.

That's all it would take.

[Warpy]

8. Bullshit.

Like I said, we already went down this path, only the madmen in charge then weren't nearly as dangerous as the ones we are now stuck with.

There is a reason we abolished the damned draft.

THINK!

[Neshanic]

10. I am, try telling our presidential candidates that. They will have to cross the never- ending war

issue. Bush himself said it. The quote about the war continuing into the his hope the next presidents term.

[AndyTiedye]

26. 70% Disapprove of the War Already. Even a Draft Won't Persuade The Rest

The Fundies would be all too happy to send their own kids off to the new Crusade.
Their kids probably do not agree (or they would be there already).
That segment would be all too happy to support a draft, especially of their own kids.

[Neshanic]

29. Then explain the disconnect.

Do you think for a moment the national discussion of what is really going on in Iraq would not change if a draft was persued?

[AndyTiedye]

41. Given that the "National Discussion" is Mediated by the Repiglickin' Media, No.

I expect we would get a big selling job about how "fair" the draft is going to be.
There is no such thing as a fair draft, of course.
The powerful will always protect their offspring, just look at our pResident for an example.

[AndyTiedye]

54. They Ignore our Protests and Keep Them Off of TV

Anything more than that would be a pretext for all that martial law stuff they are just waiting for an excuse to trot out.

AND THE DRAFT WOULD PROVIDE THE TROOPS THEY WOULD NEED TO ENFORCE MARTIAL LAW!

[JerseygirlCT]

11. I'm with you.

If anyone thinks a draft will accomplish what the facts have not so far, they're kidding themselves.

As if -- as you say -- unlimited amounts of cannon fodder would suddenly wake people up? They're not paying attention because they don't want to pat attention.

And the people with the most invested, emotionally, in this war (besides the Bush organization) are the people serving and their poor families -- who simply cannot believe for the most part that their loved ones are fighting and dying for absofuckinglutely nothing. Instead, they rationalize.

Which is what would happen on a larger scale with a draft. As we invade Iran. And then Syria.

The madman's got a year and half left folks. Plenty of time to do more damage. Let's not give him more tools in the form of our young people.

[Neshanic]

12. The war will continue for years then. When there is sacrifice by the

by those very very families you mention, with 20,000 bonuses, and hired mercenaries, then why would anyone care? It's someone elses problem.

Those very familes you mention are scarificing now. So you want to continue this into 2012? That's the choice.

Wake up the nation or it's business as usual.

[AndyTiedye]

27. The War Cannot Continue Much Longer Without Fresh Cannon Fodder

Some people think that the draft ended the Vietnam war. The draft kept it going. Once they ended the draft, they had to end the war. Who would sign up to die for a mistake?

Why is giving them the means to expand the war even being considered in the context of ending it?

70% oppose the war now. The rest either think it's the next Crusade or that it's for Israel (or both, for the End Times crowd). They'd be delighted to send their kids (who are somewhat less than delighted at the idea, or they'd be there already).

[bluestateguy]

7. No it won't

A draft only gives this Administration more men--and this crowd would never draft women; the Focus on the Family types would go ballistic--for going into Iran.

I'm sure a draft would stir up anti-war sentiment. I don't doubt that, but tens of thousands of young men would simply, dutifully march off to war, either because they support the cause, or because they just believe that you must always do what the government tells you to do.

The practical effect of your policy prescription is more Americans marching off to war and being killed or wounded. A larger anti-war movement would not even phase this Administration.

[Neshanic]

9. In reality, do you actually think the Admin would support this?

The neocons know that they can wage war when the war is not affecting anyone.

What people would dutifully march off to comply? All young republicans are terrified of actually going to war. They would recoil at the idea of being drafted. The kids against the war would bot go and demonstrate. 1968 revisted.

Rove, Cheney, bush and all cowards during Vietnam did not go, what makes you think that their devotees would jump out of bed to comply?

The administration would be thrown for a complete loop on it, and all reports and propoganda would be halted, as the national sicussion woul pre-empt all. Republican representatives would be hounded when they return to their home states.

Just starting the formal hearings would wake the nation from the stupor, and innoculate them from republican lies about how "good" the war is going.

[tnlefty]

13. What type of formal hearings do you think would have to happen?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but am curious about hearings vs. some sort of debate on the floors of either the house or senate. Congress would have to enact a draft, but I'm not understanding 'hearings'.

[Neshanic]

15. A serious push to reinstate the draft, by the democrats. This will

start the folding of the republicans like a cheap card table.

Out the door goes the "weak on defense" democrat name calling.

The republicans and the administration would be in panic mode.

[tnlefty]

21. Again, what type of hearings vs. debate on either the house or

senate floor? I don't think that 'formal hearings' would be required, and I do believe that if this is initiated by democrats, they will be toast for decades.

[Neshanic]

37. Ah, yes decades. we the ones who cannot impeach the most criminal of criminals.

The stench of lies, corruption, war, domestic murder by inaction....oh yes, please do not judge us harshly history!

[tnlefty]

50. Why do you mention formal hearings?

I've asked what your interpretation is, and I've yet to receive an answer. In other words I don't think that formal hearings are required, but perhaps debate on either floor of the house or the senate. I don't think 'formal hearings' would be required to change the law to include females in a draft, just debate on either or both floors of the house or senate.

In your mind what do these 'hearings' consist of...

And yes, I do think that either party pushing for a return of the draft will be spat upon by the public for many years.

[AndyTiedye]

22. The Repiggies Would Be Delighted to See The Democrats Commit Electoral Suicide!

I think we can all agree that a draft would be very, very unpopular.

I think it is also obvious that it is necessary to the PNAC/neocons' grand designs of conquest.

So how do they get their draft and avoid taking the heat for it?

If the neocons can trick the Democrats into bringing up the draft, then DEMOCRATS GET THE BLAME WHEN JOHNNY COMES HOME IN A BOX!

Then Repiglickins sweep the 2008 elections, and we get at least 4 more years of ever expanding war, and ever-increasing casualties, as the draft turns into a fucking hurricane and we have several million barely-trained troops over there.

[Neshanic]

36. So pose your end. The war is not ending anytime soon.

[AndyTiedye]

52. They Cannot Fight a War Without Soldiers

The only power we have to end this war is to refuse to fight in it.
The draft would make that refusal a criminal act.
Why do you think this would help end the war?

[JVS]

14. Throw more gas on that fire! It'll go out

[Neshanic]

16. Seems that it works for the republicans.

[AndyTiedye]

18. No, It Won't. A Draft Would Be Used to Provide Cannon Fodder to Expand the War to Iran and Syria

A draft would remove the only power we still have — the power NOT to fight their wars for them.

Once they have the power to force us to do that, they would happily militarize the entire country to build their empire.
There will always be safe champagne units for their own kids, just like there was for Bush the last time we had a "fair" draft.

[tomreedtoon]

19. What makes you think Republicans will be drafted?

It won't happen. It didn't happen for Dubya, did it? They will get special treatment while blacks, Hispanics and poor whites will be slaughtered in combat. Just like in Vietnam.

The naivete of people who believe in "simple solutions," whether on the left or the right, never fails to astound me.

[Neshanic]

30. Again, it's opening the box. The lies will be exposed as the nation

finally gets it. The truth.

[backscatter712]

23. The draft is fucking evil.

It is even worse than slavery. Why do I say that?

In both the draft and slavery, human beings are being forced into labor. Except with slavery, that's usually mundane labor, like tending crops, or mining, even though the jobs may be dangerous. With the draft, human beings are being given guns and force to participate in homicide. You can't get a job worse than that of killing others.

I will never, ever support the draft for any reason. I'm too old to be drafted, but if I was drafted, I'd be headed straight to Canada. If my friends are drafted, I'll help them evade.

Bringing back the draft, even to end a war, is completely unacceptable. Maybe if the military runs out of troops, the warmongers will finally find something else to do. Let them have a draft, and they will never run out of troops.

[wuushew]

25. This is the same country that loves the lottery despite the odds

if people play for money despite the extremely small chane of winning, why would the population be motivated by the chance of "losing" in the draft lotto?

The number of young males who are mentally and physically fit for armed combat will always be overshadowed by those who are not. Presumably those who are not still participate in the democratic process via voting.


Also it is wrong to assume that every draftee will automatically multiply war opposition with the addition of mom's, sis's or dad's vote.

[Puregonzo1188]

28. That is simpley not true. Viet Nam had a draft and the war lasted for quite a long time. (n/t)

[Neshanic]

31. Strange, I remember giant demonstrations also.

[Major Hogwash]

33. And when they ended the draft in '72, the Vietnam War could not be fed any more men!

So, the war machine ground to a halt in '73.

So, your argument for a draft isn't valid.

[Neshanic]

35. What?

[Frogger]

32. First of all,

there will be no draft while the Repukes can prevent it because they are thinking as you do. And while the Dems are in control of Congress they will get the blame if a draft does pass, for it will take their votes both to pass it, and to pass it over Bush's cetain veto.

Second, a return to the draft is not what we fought for during the Vietnam era. The abolition of the draft was one of the great, great achivements of the Peace movement. Are we so willing to violate our principles for political gain? Then how are we better than the Republicans???

Third, let's say that you are right, and it will bring this war to an end. The Vietnam War could never have been fought without the draft. It would never have been started. Some future President will, like Lyndon Johnson before him, have this power, and have some strategic situation that he thinks will justify using it. Once the draft is re-instated, it won't disappear as soon as we have met our immediate objective of ending the war. Besides, are you right in your assumptions? Given that power, maybe the war will just drag on anyway as troops pour into Iraq and stave off the inevitable defeat for several more years.

I simply have a hard time believeing that that a return to forced servitude is a desirable goal, regardless of the reason. I have a hard time believing that the Democratic Party, which has fought for liberties since its inception, would ever be a party to such a dastardly scheme.

[Neshanic]

38. Well say the war lasts to 2012. Will more lives be saved ending it in 2009?

[Frogger]

42. Depends on how many

deaths it takes to end it early, I suppose. I sort of think you are thinking like an accountant, though. If the war is right, it should be continued regardless of how long it takes to win. If it is wrong, it should be ended immediately regardless of the political consequences.

Naturally we all agree that it is wrong, here. But, I do not believe 1)that a draft will end the war, 2) that miliatry conscription, a form of slavery, is morally justified even if it would, or 3) that a draft can be passed at all.

And I am very leary about putting that much power back into the hands of the Executive. Even a Democratic one. It wasn't the Republicans that started the Vietnam War, it was the Democratic Lyndon B. Johnson.

[Neshanic]

34. Ok let's not. Give your predictions of the future war that has no end.

Let's see....

The war will drag on if we like it or not until the 2008 election. Yes or no?

Our candidate will be put in the uncomfortable position of explaining why they want to end the war when/if Iraq is bombed, another terror attack happens. Yes or no?

The republicans right up to the conventions will all be pro war and we are portrayed as weak on defense. Yes or no?

When/IF(and that's a BIG if), a Democrat is elected as president, do you actually think they will withdraw all the troops? Yes or no?

Do you think that draft will NEVER be brought up again, as our troops fight for years to come? Yes or no?

Do you think it is far fetched that the republicans want us IF we win in the election to be the ones in power and then all blame is on us when we try to extricate ourselves? Yes or no?

Since there is no draft now, do you agree or disagree that the average american is rather disengaged from the war on a daily basis?

If there were a push to reinstate it do you agree or disagree that it would be much harder to have multiple fantasy reports from Iraq, and it would change the dynamics of the whole war discussion?

Do you think that the neocons would actually sit still with the administration when it is introduced? They the very people who invented the "unseen war at home" with a compliant MSM.

Post your reasons, and theories of when the war will end and who will do it, and why.

[bdamomma]

39. these slimeballs will not introduce another draft, because they

have their mercenary groups that are killing innocent Iraqis out in Iraq, it's all about the privatization of oil.

[murloc]

45. Its also a solution to how to escalate the war quickly

A draft will solve Bush's problems on how to invade Iran and few others countries while continuing the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Providing more bodies for the war, is not the way to end it.

[Richard Steele]

47. That move wouldn't end the war as quickly as it ended the Dem majority. nm

[Cleita]

48. Another solution is for Congress to stop funding it.

That would stop it on a dime.

[H2O Man]

49. Not. n.t

[Javaman]

51. Dang, how did I miss this thread???

:popcorn:

[tritsofme]

53. And who is going to initiate a draft? The Democratic Congress?

What a horribly stupid idea, it would only work if you feel like losing every election for the next 30 years.