Am I crazy, or did Cheney just try to nuke Iran?

[smoogatz]

Rove and Gonzo both gone; Bush isolated and exposed (not to mention completely over his head with no one, now, to protect him). Bush sent out of the country, to APEC conference in Australia, which he thinks is the OPEC conference in Austria. Cheney running the country from his bunker. Six (!) nuclear armed cruise missiles somehow appear on the wing pilons of a B-52, which then flies them from Minot, ND to Barksdale AFB in Louisiana, which, we are told, is a major AF staging base for flights to and from the Middle East. Said nukes seem clearly to have been placed on the B-52 in flagrant violation of multiple layers of strict security regulation and protocol, for which the AF has no, repeat, no explanation. So, did Cheney and the NSA (or some other, even more shadowy para-governmental organization) temporarily sieze control of a portion of America's nuclear arsenal, off the books and in flagrant violation of all established protocol (and the law, as if that mattered to these maniacs), to use against a nation with which we are not at war? Please, tell me it didn't happen that way. Tell me I'm crazy.

[seemslikeadream]

1. Cheney by way of the Dominionists

sounds plausible to me

Nukes Over Amerika (Weekend Edition)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1765351

Was A Covert Attempt To Bomb Iran W/ Nuclear Weapons Foiled By A Military Leak?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=173147&mesg_id=173147

David Lindorff: Was That Nuclear-Armed B-52 Destined for Iran?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1767427&mesg_id=1767427


Loose Nukes Looming Near - by Captain Eric H. May
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1769053&mesg_id=1769053

[Richard Steele]

2. That might be assuming too much.

All we know for sure is that someone tried to
move six nukes to somewhere they shouldn't be,
and the operation wasn't on the up-and-up.

He wouldn't need to STEAL nukes to nuke Iran, you know.

[smoogatz]

4. If he couldn't get Bush and the Joint Chiefs on board, he would.

Even with Bush out of the country, Cheney by himself can't legally authorize a nuclear attack. The football goes with Bush. No?

[Richard Steele]

11. Ah, I see what you mean.

Yes, that would explain the need for these to be transferred
illegally and surreptitiously.

[EFerrari]

7. Maybe assuming too much but a valid question. n/t

[Richard Steele]

9. Oh, definitely. If Cheney really was involved...

...I'd say it was more likely he was going to nuke Seattle
just as an EXCUSE to nuke Iran.

[Lint Head]

3. I think you could be on to something.

With the F15's standing down at Langley this is very suspicious. The American people are being kept in the dark. :dem:

[babylonsister]

5. Dave Lindorff seems to think that's what happened, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1767427&mesg_id=1767427

[Colorado Progressive]

6. Well there are lots of crazy thoughts on DU all the time. Many seem crazy

until we find out they were correct. I hope you are wrong. That whole story about armed nukes accidentally flying over us was pretty disturbing. But I think if Cheney wanted to nuke Iran he would just use a warship and be done with it, wouldnt it be easier?

[GeorgeGist]

8. Not Iran ...

but someone else to blame on Iran/Osama ... is my guess.

Modern cruise missiles normally travel at supersonic or at high subsonic speeds, are self-navigating, and fly in a non-ballistic very low altitude trajectory in order to avoid radar detection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile

[Stephanie]

10. sorry, i don't think you're crazy

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070906/480/8bda6545507d435abe58f55af66e8a64

Always a bridesmaid.

[MODemocrat]

41. Seriously, I'm wondering if Dick Cheney really is mentally ill

As people used to say: "That old man just don't act right." :P :crazy: :scared:

[Stephanie]

56. Seriously, I think his heart disease has made him mentally unstable.

Heart surgery is known to cause depression. He's had four heart atacks. He's wearing that terrifying defibrillator thingy all the time. God knows what medications he's on. I think all that has make him deeply paranoid and depressed.

[havocmom]

61. Didn't dick's chief of staff recently remark that the US needed another bombing or something

to get us all back on track?

dick and the end-times crusaders in the Air Force scare me.

[paparush]

81. Yes. David Addington - But, he said in 2004.

From Salon.com -
Its in the news because Jack Goldsmith has written a book in which he quotes Addington...

shared the White House's concern that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act might prevent wiretaps on international calls involving terrorists. But Goldsmith deplored the way the White House tried to fix the problem, which was highly contemptuous of Congress and the courts. "We're one bomb away from getting rid of that obnoxious court," Goldsmith recalls Addington telling him in February 2004.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/04/addington/index.html

[LakeSamish706]

12. If that is a reallity, I hate to think what the rest of the world thinks about us...

And where do things go from here? What the hell would happen if these nukes actually made their way to Iran by way of a US B-52 and were dropped on a very populated city? This would be far worse than what happened in Japan during the second world war... Damn...

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. Given Only The Two Choices, Then The Far More Reasonable Answer Is The Former.

Sorry.

[seemslikeadream]

15. David Lindorff: Was That Nuclear-Armed B-52 Destined for Iran?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1767427&mesg_id=1767427

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Yeah, And?

I'm sorry, am I supposed to bow down and take as fact anything he editorializes?

And what's being said in the OP is even more than that pal. And based on the OP (which, by the way bub, is what my response was TOWARDS, not some friggin dae lindorff article), and the choices within it, the former is far more likely. The premise in the OP is beyond far fetched.

[seemslikeadream]

19. hey bub I am in no way your pal

and I don't think Lindorff is either

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slowry]

79. YHBT n/t

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seemslikeadream]

28. Larry Johnson is NOT crazy either

"Did someone at Barksdale try to indirectly warn the American people that the Bush Administration is staging nukes for Iran?"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/09/05/staging-nukes-for-iran

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Listen Pal, I'm Not Sure What Part Of This You Are Failing To Understand:

The OP is NOT saying the same thing as what is in that article. The OP is going far beyond what that article is saying. Why is this so hard for you to recognize? Why do you seem to be fixated on this false concept that somehow my response was towards someone else OTHER than the OP and the OP's question? Can you point me to where in EITHER of your links there is a claim that cheney was attempting to STEAL nukes and use them now to bomb Iran? Can you do that for me? If not, then both of your posts carry no merit or relevance to my reply whatsoever. :hi:

[seemslikeadream]

36. OK I understand now the Admin was not stealing them they were just going to use them

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Who Knows. All I Know Is That I Was Responding To The OP, And The Direct Premise Of The OP.

Under those terms, and within the boundaries of the two limited choices given, the far better choice was the former option, being that the premise put forth is beyond far fetched and the product of way too tight tin foil.

[seemslikeadream]

40. That's your opinion

mine's different

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. It Is? For Real? Fuck, I Woulda Sworn For A Second There I Was Taken Over Mentally By An

ill meaning alien that forced me to reply with THEIR views on what they thought about the OP. But I'm BEYOND relieved to now learn that it was of my own free will after all and was in fact my own opinion! Thank GOD!!!

Phew... That was a close call.

[seemslikeadream]

46. You did promise to leave us alone 20 minutes ago

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. Actually I Didn't. You're Just Really Having Some Problems With Context, Huh.

That was insofar as the inner subthread was concerned and my lack of desire to respond to the mindless immaturity and blatant stupidity.

In respect to the outer subthread, I made no such declaration. Try and keep up ok? LOL

But I am off to bed, and since you have failed from the get go to provide anything directly within context to my original reply other than "That's your opinion. Mine's different", I'm fairly certain any further conversation would be utterly useless and empty anyway.

[seemslikeadream]

50. Well I have but did not wasted on you needless to say

Why would I provide you with anything, it definetly would be a waste of my time. I was under the impression you were here just to play

[slowry]

80. YHBT n/t

[BeHereNow]

84. Okay...WHAT the hell does YHBT mean?

"You have been trolled?"
If so...
In this case, that would not be news.

BHN

[seemslikeadream]

16. Cheney is the crazy one

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. 5 nukes been moved so they say

but maybe he is planning to nuke his own country

[bemildred]

22. Six, they say it was now. nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. presumably Bush authorized this?

or else they couldn't be moved?:nuke:

[seemslikeadream]

27. practice loading a nuclear warhead, but never taking off with one.

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_nuclear_warhead_070905/

As a gesture to Russia and the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, the first Bush administration took it one step farther in 1991 by ordering all bombers to halt nuclear ground alerts, which allowed bomber crews to practice loading a nuclear warhead, but never taking off with one.

The Defense Department does transport nuclear warheads by air, but instead of bombers it uses C-17 or C-130 cargo aircraft.

The Chain of Custody, paperwork, and Command Control are exhaustive for verifiably secure handling of nuclear weapons.

Many credible comments on various news blogs state that the paperwork required to move nuclear munitions is redundant, exhaustive, taken very seriously, and so stringent that it is "idiot proof."

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. were they on the wings of the B52s

if so, people need to be worried

[seemslikeadream]

32. yes three on each side and there were 12 - 6 nukes

[Rosa Luxemburg]

35. we hope that Osama bin ladin has NOTstolen them and

we hope that he doesn't drop them on 6 American cities! Congress should investigate fast.

[seemslikeadream]

37. OMG

Do you think somebody should warn bush about that?

[havocmom]

62. Six came up AFTER many pointed out you don't often see five on a B52

Originally reported B52 with FIVE armed weapons landed in Louisiana. When a few got curious about FIVE on a plane that loads six, the reports were edited. Which makes me wonder if ONE is still unaccounted for.

Isn't there a big search for some rich guy in Nevada? Hmmm.... Tinfoil? maybe but many of our worst tin foil speculation of yesteryear have turned out to be mild in comparison to what we have found out has really gone down.

[goforit]

20. Sounding like a true tinfoil hatter your are. Definitely plausable.

[seemslikeadream]

26. Nuclear armed B-52 flights are not common:

http://204.71.60.35/d_newswire/issues/2007_9_5.html#149D6ECF


The risk of flying accidents, however, led the United States to abandon all nuclear-armed bomber flights in 1968, according to Hans Kristensen, a nuclear weapons expert with the Federation of American Scientists.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

31. congress should investigate this then?

[bbgrunt]

30. I'm worried that he's trying to nuke us.

[seemslikeadream]

33. me too

[fooj]

54. Add me to the list.

[havocmom]

63. It'd be one way to split the California electorial vote

for sure!

[undergroundpanther]

69. Add me too

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1001206,00.html
http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=120

[FourScore]

39. I think you've hit it right on target!!! eom

[sce56]

42. There has been a lot posted on this subject some has been deep sixed to TinFoil land AKA 911Forum!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1757405|Nukes over Amerika (continued)>



On Edit only one of those was deepsixed why one and not all? That is a question. But the big topic is the fact that we should see the atomic clock change time again to less than five minutes to midnight!

[seemslikeadream]

44. Only one of those links has been moved Please don't misrepresent

[sce56]

49. Clock Timeline it is now 5 Minutes to Midnight

Clock Timeline


IT IS 5 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
2007 — The world stands at the brink of a second nuclear age. The United States and Russia remain ready to stage a nuclear attack within minutes, North Korea conducts a nuclear test, and many in the international community worry that Iran plans to acquire the Bomb. Climate change also presents a dire challenge to humanity. Damage to ecosystems is already taking place; flooding, destructive storms, increased drought, and polar ice melt are causing loss of life and property.

IT IS 7 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
2002 — Concerns regarding a nuclear terrorist attack underscore the enormous amount of unsecured--and sometimes unaccounted for--weapon-grade nuclear materials located throughout the world. Meanwhile, the United States expresses a desire to design new nuclear weapons, with an emphasis on those able to destroy hardened and deeply buried targets. It also rejects a series of arms control treaties and announces it will withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
9 Minutes to Midnight

IT IS 9 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
1998 — India and Pakistan stage nuclear weapons tests only three weeks apart. “The tests are a symptom of the failure of the international community to fully commit itself to control the spread of nuclear weapons—and to work toward substantial reductions in the numbers of these weapons,” a dismayed Bulletin reports. Russia and the United States continue to serve as poor examples to the rest of the world. Together, they still maintain 7,000 warheads ready to fire at each other within 15 minutes.
14 Minutes to Midnight

IT IS 14 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
1995 — Hopes for a large post-Cold War peace dividend and a renouncing of nuclear weapons fade. Particularly in the United States, hard-liners seem reluctant to soften their rhetoric or actions, as they claim that a resurgent Russia could provide as much of a threat as the Soviet Union. Such talk slows the rollback in global nuclear forces; more than 40,000 nuclear weapons remain worldwide. There is also concern that terrorists could exploit poorly secured nuclear facilities in the former Soviet Union.

[Swamp Rat]

57. tic toc tic toc tic toc

[cgrindley]

43. option 1 (nt)

[appleannie1]

47. People that should know think the same Read the link.

Why the hubbub over a B-52 taking off from a B-52 base in Minot, North Dakota and subsequently landing at a B-52 base in Barksdale, Louisiana? That’s like getting excited if you see a postal worker in uniform walking out of a post office. And how does someone watching a B-52 land identify the cruise missiles as nukes? It just does not make sense.

So I called a old friend and retired B-52 pilot and asked him. What he told me offers one compelling case of circumstantial evidence. My buddy, let’s call him Jack D. Ripper, reminded me that the only times you put weapons on a plane is when they are on alert or if you are tasked to move the weapons to a specific site.

Then he told me something I had not heard before.

Barksdale Air Force Base is being used as a jumping off point for Middle East operations. Gee, why would we want cruise missile nukes at Barksdale Air Force Base. Can’t imagine we would need to use them in Iraq. Why would we want to preposition nuclear weapons at a base conducting Middle East operations?

His final point was to observe that someone on the inside obviously leaked the info that the planes were carrying nukes. A B-52 landing at Barksdale is a non-event. A B-52 landing with nukes. That is something else.

Now maybe there is an innocent explanation for this? I can’t think of one. What is certain is that the pilots of this plane did not just make a last minute decision to strap on some nukes and take them for a joy ride. We need some tough questions and clear answers. What the hell is going on? Did someone at Barksdale try to indirectly warn the American people that the Bush Administration is staging nukes for Iran? I don’t know, but it is a question worth asking.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/09/05/staging-nukes-for-iran/#comment-24412

[defendandprotect]

51. Didn't Bush put Cheney in charge of EVERYTHING . . . . ????

[appleannie1]

53. IMO Cheney is in charge of

everything, even when Bush is in the WH. I think that Rove might have damped Cheney's control in some things, but Cheney has always been able to control Bush.

[defendandprotect]

52. We need to get Congress and prez candidates EXCITED about this -- !!!!

[ClayZ]

55. Darth Cheney and Haliburton did lots of business in IRAN

Perhaps there is something he wants to get rid of there that would incriminate him further.

[EFerrari]

59. Like Mr. Chalabi. n/t

[barbtries]

58. i wish i could n/t

[backscatter712]

60. Nope, you're not crazy.

When you look into all the security procedures, the armed guards, the chain-of-custody rules, the two-man rule, and so on, I've come to the conclusion that the only way that those nukes could have ended up on that B-52 is because they were ordered to. In a sidestep of the normal channels. The only way it could have happened is if someone very high up, most likely Bush or Cheney themselves, ordered it.

Why Bush or Cheney ordered those nukes flown isn't known. It does scare the hell out of me. I have the sinking feeling that we're soon going to see nuclear weapons used in anger for the first time since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[DS1]

64. Or maybe it was headed TO Iran, but got diverted to LA when mission called off.

:shrug:

[Kelly Rupert]

65. Sure. It didn't happen that way. You're crazy.

The Air Force has a pretty believable explanation: They were supposed to remove those warheads from those missiles for refitting and upgrading, followed all procedures for doing so, but due to bureaucratic incompetence/laziness on the part of several officers, neglected to actually remove the warheads.

Everything else you have written did not happen.

[smoogatz]

66. Those officers have been relieved of duty and will face

courts martial, I assume? Any idea what their names are? And why was the initial story that the warheads were to be decommissioned?

On edit: it's somehow much more comforting to think I'm crazy than to think Cheney would actually try to jump chain of command and, more or less on his own, decide to unilaterally kill millions of people. And I have been kind of jumpy lately. And I've got this slight tic in my left eye...

[Kelly Rupert]

67. Yes, they have.

"The munitions squadron commander has been relieved of his duties, and final action is pending the outcome of the investigation," he said. "In addition, other airmen were decertified from their duties involving munitions."
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hMeYdNxXsPRbgtMslk-LOEHfOrLw

No names have been released, of course; this is an internal matter and will remain so. Quite frankly, this is embarrassing enough for the Pentagon, and they have no intention of releasing any more information at all (which, incidentally, is why you're finding so little solid information).

[smoogatz]

68. Apparently the chain of custody issue is problematic,

as it involves several officers and crew members, all of whom have to sign off for each warhead. It's not, according to one poster responding to the Navy Times story, as though the nukes and the conventional warheads are kept in bins next to each other. That's why I'm having a little trouble with the official "it was a screwup" story. Either it was a colossal, systemic failure (not altogether beyond the realm of possibility, considering who's CinC) or it was intentional. If it was intentional, who was responsible and what were they up to?

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_nuclear_warhead_070905/

[Kelly Rupert]

70. If it's intentional, what's the point?

Nobody's answered that, really. Conspiracies require a motive.

It doesn't take sneaking a nuke around without anybody involved knowing about it to nuke Iran. I don't see why people seem to think the Pentagon is always hatching some convoluted Keystone Kops plan to nuke Iran. We have nukes. We have missiles. We have submarines and carrier groups in the area.

Nuking Iran would not be particularly difficult to pull off.

[smoogatz]

73. It would if Bush and the Joint Chiefs weren't on board.

If it was Cheney acting on his own, he'd have to circumvent normal procedures. I'll be interested in the statements of the AF officers involved, if they're ever declassified.

[Kelly Rupert]

82. Who will drop it?

Which of the following do you believe?

1. There exist officers in the Air Force who would, in brazen treason, conspire together to sneak nukes around, against the orders of their superior officers, knowing full well that doing so would end their careers. They do this in order to bring about a nuclear strike on Iran, something which will be easily traced to them, and which will end in a court-martial and execution for all involved.

2. Any airman in the Air Force will either consent to, or will politely decline and not tell a superior officer about, the following statement: "Hello. I am not your superior officer, but am acting through the power of the Vice President. We have a B-52 ready for departure. Please take it, along with a crew of similar-minded people, and drop a nuke on Iran. Thank you."

3. Dick Cheney has a private air force.

Creating a network of traitors in the Air Force is a pretty complex plan any way you look at it.

[smoogatz]

83. Maybe it's the Abu Ghraib scenario all over again.

Unclear chain of command, CIA and contractors showing up and bossing people around, high ranking but anonymous officers giving contradictory orders, ordinary grunts trying to keep everybody happy—and when the shit hits the fan the whole thing gets buried because there are no written orders (or they're classified), and nobody takes the blame except two or three enlisted people. I don't think Abu Ghraib was a mistake, and I doubt that this was, either.

And hey, if Cheney can have a private army (Blackwater), why can't he have a private air force?

[Freddie Stubbs]

71. If this were the case, do you really beleive that they would have let the press get wind of it?

:shrug:

[smoogatz]

74. In the Navy Times article, it was leaked by three AF officers

who insisted on anonymity. Why do you suppose they'd do that?

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_nuclear_warhead_070905/

[BeHereNow]

75. Okay, that is a HORIFFYING read.

did you check out the comment section?
Holy Mother of God!
It is SO past time to get the hell out of this
country gone mad...

BHN

[smoogatz]

77. I take the comments with a grain of salt, but

what's consistent in the ones from folks who claim some knowledge of the protocol and procedures for handling nukes is a sense of outrage and astonishment that such a thing could have happened. It's apparently several orders of crazy beyond a standard military grade fuckup. That's what worries me about the whole thing.

[BeHereNow]

78. Yeah, THOSE are the comments I was referring to...people who KNOW this is beyond the pale.

Lord have mercy on us all.
And somewhere, someone is a true HERO for blowing the
whistle on this operation of doom.
We may never know who, but may we always
thank him/her in our souls.

It is SO clear they (Cheney INC) were up to NO GOOD.

AND, add this to the mix, just days before the anniversary of
you know what...

BHN
:hide:

[PATRICK]

72. Patterns of behavior

of which we have had too many examples suggest you have good reason. Bush is always out of Dodge. the current SOD, Gates, is most unlikely to organize such a horror. 9/11 shows the same patterns exactly as we see now. At the least Cheney seems desperate to repeat their biggest success. All roads paved to hell lead to Cheney.

[BeHereNow]

76. AMEN!!!

Scott Ritter is right-CHENEY is the biggest threat to
this country and the entire world!
BHN