I assume now that we had the dog and pony show, people realize the war will not end.

[Neshanic]

It will not end this winter.

It will not end all the way up to the conventions.

It will not end after a republican or democrat is elected.

That's the way it is when our people do not play for keeps the way the republicans do. Keith interviewed John Dean , and he said it. John Dean confirmed it.

So all the whining about the move on ad, our apologists like Kerry that never met a situation he would not apologize for, our candidates and how they are comitted to end the war, it is all horseshit.

Cindy has more guts than anyone here on this board.

And for all you non-Vietnam war era gang, welcome to the Iraq war era, cause that's what is going to be.

When and IF a democrat is electered to be president, which I seriously doubt at this point, look for the sudden change after the swearing in.

I suggested that we as Democrats force the republicans hand with the draft, of course it would not begin, but start serious and never-ending discussion on it to wake the nation. As usual the usual suspects are appalled. How could someone pose such a thing? It's lost on people who think that Pelosi and Reid can do something, anything. They can't. It's out of their control.

So now we can "reduce our troops to the pre-surge amount this summer". How convenient. Then this summer will turn to "later", then "later"....

Welcome to the war that will not end. Brought to you by our own that have no spine. Oh and by the way for all you Cindy "bad form" tsk tskers...you do not deserve her in any way.

[WillyT]

1. Yep... K & R !!!

I love how we're gonna win in '08, and everything is gonna change then.

As you say... HORSESHIT!

:puke:

[TwilightGardener]

2. It was really anticlimactic. We all knew what was coming, and now here it is, and so what?

Honestly, I don't think we'll see any strengthening of support for the war because of Petraeus. I think most Americans are just waiting for this fucking disaster to come to an end somehow.

[Neshanic]

4. The key word "somehow".

Sooner or later it will sink in. It's all theater. The war is not ending.

[Benhurst]

3. Recommended #3

:kick:

[TankLV]

5. Yep.

I can ad nothing more.

The next Dem president will be like Johnson - forced to escalate the war, only to lose to another nixon...

God help us all...

[MiniMe]

6. Part 2 & 3 are tomorrow. Lets hope the Senators have more balls than

the house critters.

[Neshanic]

7. The national theater. The ending is already been written.

[HughMoran]

8. This never-ending war is NOT good for Republicans

It may lead to the destruction of their party for a long time to come. That is what they were getting at - it's as if the Dems know this and are willing to let the Republicans hang themselves. Unfortunately, the killing continues. :(

[Neshanic]

9. On the contrary. It's their hope of having the WH in 2008

"it's as if the Dems know this and are willing to let the Republicans hang themselves."

You really have to stop believing that our side is that intelligent.

After today it's officially the end of the "triangulating, smart scheming, master plotters, know it all, we keep our powder dry" democrats.

[HughMoran]

11. lol - there's no reason to believe that having the war as an issue is good for R's

Please give at least some support for your supposition. I don't buy it at all.

I don't care if the Dems are intelligent or stupid or conniving,

I don't care if there is a Karl Rove around every corner,

people in this country are SICK AND TIRED of this war - if the last election didn't bring that into focus for you, then I don't know what will.

All the evil politicking you describe will not change the basic instincts of the American public.

Republicans are doomed for a long, long time.

[Neshanic]

12. Fear is everything. Republicans love it. many things are possible until the elections.

So the country is tired of a war. Is that going to stop it? Has It? Will it?

The majority want the moron impeached. Has he? Will he be?

Facts are facts. We are staying in the war for a long, long, time.

[AndyTiedye]

10. A Draft Would Allow the War to Continue for Decades

I suggested that we as Democrats force the republicans hand with the draft

Then the Repiglickins would say "thank you very much" as they sweep the 2008 elections.
They would also sweep into Iran and Syria, bolstered by all that fresh cannon fodder.

of course it would not begin,

I think it far more likely that it will. They would love to have the draft if they can blame the Democrats for it.

but start serious and never-ending discussion on it

What would you count as evidence of such a "discussion"? Seeing it on TV? Don't hold your breath.

to wake the nation.

The nation is awake. In a historic shift, we elected the Democrats last fall to put things right. We did NOT elect the Democrats to draft our kids!!!
If the Democrats enact a draft, the electorate will feel utterly betrayed and will abandon our party in droves.
The Repiggies would win the Presidency by a landslide, even without any electoral fraud, and they would sweep back into power in the House and Senate.

As usual the usual suspects are appalled. How could someone pose such a thing?

A better question is WHY?
You say you want to end the war, but you would at the same time give the warmongers the cannon fodder they need to continue and expand it forever
while at the same time ensuring a huge electoral victory for the Repiglickins, ALL of whom support the war.

A draft gives them the manpower to expand the war into Iran. A draft gives them the manpower to do martial law.

It's lost on people who think that Pelosi and Reid can do something, anything. They can't. It's out of their control.

Then it it madness to give this out-of-control regime EVEN MORE POWER!!
Why do you want to do that???

[Neshanic]

13. Yes and....?

[AndyTiedye]

14. No Draft Means the War Has to End When they Run Out of Cannon Fodder

That is how the Vietnam war ended.

They are running low on cannon fodder now. It is the only reason they are even backing off of the "surge" troop levels. They would send in even more if they could.



Now will you please explain HOW you think the Democrats can push through a draft and make the electorate blame the Repigs for it. Especiallly when the Repigs own the media.

What part of ELECTORAL SUICIDE don't you understand?

[PFunk]

15. Actually I think we are on the verge of the "Mercinary age".

Since we are fast running out of willing recruits for our military. Add to the fact that calling for any sort of draft would be a death kiss to that party. The only option for those who want to keep this mess going is to go with mercs. At least for the short run until you can 'properganize' the population into accepting a pro-military goverment-which I don't see happening. However going with a merc military will only work if you have the cash for it. Which I see the US not being in that position for long.

[Neshanic]

17. True, that was brought up by the NPR Neocon. They are not allowed to say "draft"

But the draft will come up, and it's a game of chicken that the republicans know we have no stomach for. They on the otherhand will make bonuses bigger, hire out, and wait until the 2008 election.

[Neshanic]

16. The Vitenam war ended because the nation had had enough,

not for lack of men. It was the culmination of an era of a never ending war with no end in sight. There was no support for it any longer after years of war. The DRAFT was protested and was on everyones mind, and had everyone worried.

But you see we have no draft. American Idol is on, and Brittany Spears is on TV. There are no demonstrations of the magnitude of the late 60's and early 70's. Gee, I wonder why? You think that it is important to get 5 deferments? Or ride out the war in Texas?

The wrongness of the war made the war unpopular over the years. The draft was the other reason. Do they teach anything in school anymore about the riots, killings, civil unrest of that time?

Electoral suicide...thats hysterical. Our party will be on life support after the republicans rake us over in the next months, and then the election.

By the way, I am of that generation. When I was 5 we were at war. when I was in 8th grade, my sisters husband of 2 weeks was blown up. Two months later the neighbors kid. When I was a sophmore in HS the war ended.

You talk about politics and electoral suicide. If we talked honestly about a draft, then you would see the dynamics of even the MSM coverage change drastically. But we won't, the republicans know it, and so they have at us.

[AndyTiedye]

18. Vietnam Was Not Important to Exxon or Israel

The Vitenam war ended because the nation had had enough, not for lack of men. It was the culmination of an era of a never ending war with no end in sight. There was no support for it any longer after years of war. The DRAFT was protested and was on everyones mind, and had everyone worried.

The draft also allowed them to escalate the war, and expand it into Cambodia. They could not have done that without the draft.

But you see we have no draft.

Which is the only reason we have not yet invaded Iran or Syria.

American Idol is on, and Brittany Spears is on TV.

We had much better TV shows back in the 60's!

There are no demonstrations of the magnitude of the late 60's and early 70's. Gee, I wonder why?

We have had quite a few. Unfortunately, they don't get the kind of TV coverage that they used to. Back in the day, demonstrations were considered news. Not anymore.

You think that it is important to get 5 deferments? Or ride out the war in Texas?

I think that rather makes my point that no draft is ever going to be fair.

The wrongness of the war made the war unpopular over the years.

This war is equally unpopular.

The draft was the other reason.

They drafted young men for that war for almost a decade. Doesn't exactly seem like a formula for a quick end to the war.

Do they teach anything in school anymore about the riots, killings, civil unrest of that time?

I suspect it has been highly sanitized by now, and is missing that whiff of tear-gas that accompanied the arrival of the tactical cops.

Electoral suicide...thats hysterical. Our party will be on life support after the republicans rake us over in the next months, and then the election.

That is because the people are already very unhappy about the war. We elected a Democratic Congressional majority to end it. If they don't, they will probably lose next year.
If, instead of ending the war, the Democrats in Congress enact a draft, they will not only lose, they will pretty much be run out of Washington next year.

By the way, I am of that generation. When I was 5 we were at war. when I was in 8th grade, my sisters husband of 2 weeks was blown up. Two months later the neighbors kid. When I was a sophmore in HS the war ended.

I am older than you. If the draft had gone on another year it woulda been me coming home in a box.

You talk about politics and electoral suicide.

Don't you think that the anger that a draft would cause would be directed towards those who proposed and voted for it?

If we talked honestly about a draft

What is that supposed to mean?

then you would see the dynamics of even the MSM coverage change drastically

Yes you will. But not in a good way. They will be talking about how the DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BRING BACK THE DRAFT!