thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:36 AM
Original message |
Is it discrimination to point out a rival for a promotion doesn't have papers? |
annarbor
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message |
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Immigration papers? College transcripts? Rolling papers?
How in the world would you know for sure what their status was?
Ann Arbor
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
txaslftist
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message |
2. Can't roll a blunt without papers. |
poverlay
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
7. Yeah, I was going to say... Priorities. You'd be remiss if you didn't point that out!...nt |
txaslftist
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. You think anyone really wants to swap spit off a shared bong? |
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Gotta have your papers.
It's the boy scout motto. Be prepared.
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youthere
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
18. Semper Paratus. Always prepared. Also the Coast Guard motto. |
txaslftist
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. That's all I'm saying. |
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Burning marijuana smells suspiciously like ... freedom.
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Romulox
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
40. A blunt is rolled in a cigar rapper (tobacco leaf), not paper...nt |
Crabby Appleton
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
47. How 'bout a fatty then? nt |
BOSSHOG
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message |
3. I think the better tact would be to |
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emphasize your credentials if given the opportunity especially if you have a qualification in writing that someone else up for the job does not have, ensure that your quals are highligted. I suspect a discerning employer would know who is and is not qualified if qualifications are the basis for hiring, firing or promoting.
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Romulox
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
41. Legal resident is a threshhold qualification for ANY job in the US...nt |
MissB
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message |
4. Show what you have, not what your rival doesn't have. |
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And I don't mean show them your "papers" whatever those are. Are we talking purebred dogs here?
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LanternWaste
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message |
6. If I have to resort to... |
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If I have to resort to advertising my opponents weaknesses rather than my own strengths to get a promotion, it probably means I don't have many strengths of my own...
But then again, I'm kind of old-fashioned and feel people should move up through their own work.
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
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that as a legal citizen, I should not have preference over an illegal alien? Am I being an intolerant bigot? I don't think so.
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LanternWaste
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Tue Sep-11-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
24. I made no mention of immigration status |
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I made no mention of immigration status, so to infer anything close to bigotry from what I posted is simply reaching for insults that don't exist. I'd simply pose the question to myself, 'who does the better job?'.
If however, you're simply fishing for a conversation of immigrant status, why not simply come out and say so?
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
27. I just want to know if I am assertive on this matter |
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Edited on Tue Sep-11-07 01:17 PM by thegreatcause2
am I being insensitive and hurtful to this person?
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LanternWaste
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
35. "Assertive"? Nice use of the word for a positive spin... |
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"Assertive"? Nice use of the word for a positive spin.
If you rely on his/her shortcomings rather than your own strengths to get the position, then yes-- you are being hurtful and insensitive (and probably selling yourself short... but that's another conversation).
I was in competition for my current job two years ago. I knew the young lady who was also up for it smoked pot (not only against the law, but also a direct violation of company policy). I relied on my strengths relevant to the position, rather than on her weaknesses not relevant to the positions, and never brought it up. For me to have done that would have been in bad form.
But I also realize that honor is not a business practice for most people. But to be honest, I really think you're tap dancing around the issue you really want to talk about...
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qazplm
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message |
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Although I would need more information on what exactly you mean by immigration papers?
Are you saying he is illegal? Is not a citizen? Doesn't have a green card, what exactly?
If illegal, then I say why should he get the job over you?
If a permanent resident or otherwise here legally, well, that's a different story and not sure that really gets you anything or is fair per se.
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
11. this person has no green card or any legal status |
annarbor
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
13. Why are you asking us? |
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Just curious.... Why don't you provide more information..What exactly is the position?
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IndianaJones
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Tue Sep-11-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message |
12. are your papers in order? nt. |
thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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I have a birth certificate and valid social security #.
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AlCzervik
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message |
14. so you didn't care about your co workers immigration status until they became |
thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
32. I work in the restaurant industry |
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it is built on the hard work of illegal immigrants. That is just the way it is. I can't change that.
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AlCzervik
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
49. that doesn't answer the question at all. |
gollygee
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message |
15. The fact that you didn't care about it till now might be |
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Were not aware of your rival's status before he/she became a rival?
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
31. yes, I knew before the job opening |
ecstatic
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message |
16. Does s/he perform the job better than you do? nt |
thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
TahitiNut
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message |
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Merely questionable timing ... but that's a separate issue. :shrug:
People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons, do the wrong thing for the right reasons, do the right thing for the right reasons, and fuck it up totally.
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La Lioness Priyanka
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message |
19. legal discrimination? no. |
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however, company may be willing to sponsor.
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txaslftist
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message |
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Naw. It's winning. It's a dog-eat-dog world, and you gotta be a bigger dog. You think your rival would hesitate to tell the boss about a felony conviction you had?
Besides, whomever is doing the promoting might want to know there's a potential problem with your rival.
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RaleighNCDUer
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message |
22. If i were the boss, it would look to me like you were trying to |
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blackmail me for hiring illegals.
That would really piss me off.
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Dora
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Tue Sep-11-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message |
23. No, it's not. It's trying to make yourself look better by pointing out someone else's flaws. |
zbdent
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Tue Sep-11-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message |
25. rather interesting dilemma ... so you're saying that your employer |
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has an illegal immigrant working for them?
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
Igel
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Tue Sep-11-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message |
26. I'd suggest that the employer verify all the claims |
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made in a resume, that there are far too many people lying in order to gain advantage ... and that it can be a problem down the road.
Point out the case of the MIT dean, IIRC, who hadn't finished college but who put falsehoods on her resume in order to advance in the hierarchy, and say that this can apply to nearly anybody making nearly any claim concerning employment requirements. And it's damned embarrassing when the claims turn out to be false.
Then hand in the kind of documentation you think the employer *should* have requested, with no further comment.
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HiFructosePronSyrup
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Tue Sep-11-07 01:17 PM by Bornaginhooligan
Does his or her lack of papers have anything to do with him or her doing the job better than you? Probably not.
discriminate- 1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit
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Cleita
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message |
34. A post with practically no information. |
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You really need to do better even if your intent is to start a flame war.
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thegreatcause2
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Tue Sep-11-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
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I don't want to stir any pots.
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Cleita
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Tue Sep-11-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
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You don't give any information. You just assume that we are going to guess about what kind of papers, what kind of job and what kind of promotion by filling in the blanks. Also, if it is about an immigrant who doesn't have a green card, I'm sure the employer knows that. So until you are more specific, I don't see how anyone can answer your post.
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Evoman
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Tue Sep-11-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message |
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The only relevant question here is this: would you be happy with YOURSELF if you won in this manner? If you would be, none of us can stop you....do it. If you wouldn't, then go with your heart.
I think the choice to not report him would be more moral and ethical.
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onethatcares
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message |
39. so you're gonna play the "no papers" card ? |
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It's not discrimination, it's tattling, or snitching.
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CreekDog
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
48. Tattling or snitching can be right or wrong |
murloc
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message |
42. To point out a criminal is hardly discrimination |
La Lioness Priyanka
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message |
43. if i was your boss, i wouldnt promote you because someone else doesnt have papers |
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i would hire some who isnt petty for the job
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Johonny
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message |
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No it's not discrimination to point out your rival doesn't have their proper immigration papers. It's a basic fact for basis employment that you have that your rival lacks. It also sounds like a bad idea. A) your employer already knows this B) apparently doesn't care C) may feel your reiterating the fact is more blackmail than a gentle suggestion of a major quality you have.
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murloc
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
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Chances are the employer already knows the rival is illegal and is ignoring the fact. Pointing this out may make the employer uncomfortable enough to fire the person who points it out.
Morally, the right thing to do is to call out the criminal, but it may very well cost you your job.
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BlooInBloo
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Tue Sep-11-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message |
45. Maybe not. It just be being a fucking asshole.... |
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Edited on Tue Sep-11-07 03:35 PM by BlooInBloo
EDIT: If I were the boss I'd (a) try to work with the employee to get him/her legal, maybe letting him/her go, all else failing, and (b) Immediately fire the person who torpedoed the no-papers person.
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Mr. Ected
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
50. Nothing Wrong With Outting An Illegal... |
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You may be saving your company a lot of money in penalties for failing to document their employees properly.
But outting them at this time for this reason seems self-serving and cowardly. Then again, the working world is based on a form of Darwinism. Hard to say what's right and wrong, with the word illegal intertwined in the discussion.
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BlooInBloo
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #50 |
51. No, it's not hard. Amoral people just say it is to cover their asses. |
Mr. Ected
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
53. You'd Be Correct, If We Lived In a Nation of Morals |
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Rather than a nation of laws.
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MountainLaurel
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Tue Sep-11-07 04:49 PM
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