How far are they willing to go?

[Atman]

I wish I could find the article which inspired this little rant, but it appeared so damned long ago during the propaganda campaign leading up to Bush's invasion of Iraq. Maybe some of you recall such a writing, or heard the similar story broadcast on NPR at the time. It was about the Neocon philosophy -- that which is still running the show in Washington -- and the rather extreme view they have regarding bringing about fundamental change in a society.

The article discussed the Neocon's observation that no truly fundamental shift in any society throughout history has occurred without a monumental, wide-scale, "historic" event to propel such change forward. In essence, the belief is that you can't simultaneously motivate 300,000,000 people without a motivator equal in scale to the population.

Obviously they're not talking about "devastating" tax cuts or eliminating dark skinned people from the welfare roles. These are short-term political charades which can easily be undone at the next election (for the purposes of this essay, I'll skip the whole connection to why the ends-justify-the-means Neocons consider themselves practically duty-bound to rig elections in their favor).

Make no mistake, the Neocons want to literally transform American society. They're not looking for a new loophole for their favorite special interest, that's grade-school politics. What the Neocons intend is serious, life-altering, societal change. They don't care if it's delivered on the tip of an ICBM, they don't care if it lays underwater amidst a drowned a city. "No fundamental societal change can occur without massive, wide scale social upheaval." Never has, never will.

The Sixties provided a very, very small taste, and the Neocons responded in kind by developing strategies to acquire the major media outlets. As we see today, this part of the plan has worked out quite well for them. What I find so worrisome is wondering to what lengths are these freaking mad men prepared to go to bring about their glorious vision of a New Society? How "massive" an event are they willing to allow/enable/create as the catalyst?

Look, it's their philosophy, not mine. I'm just presenting it by way of a reminder that we aren't dealing with normal men and normal political forces. Something truly sinister is at work within this administration. "Accidental" nuke flights, threats to Iran, lying generals, stacked courts, warrantless spying, total disregard for our system of government checks and balances.

How far are they willing to go? Or more importantly, how far are we willing to let them go?

[againes654]

1. I see very scary things in the future!!

Yesterday as I sat in silence remembering those that died 6 years ago at that very moment, tears streamed down my face. Not for what most yesterday were crying for, but for the true fear in my heart that our government was somehow, in some way, complacant. That is truly a mind numbing fear. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they were totally behind 9/11, but I am all but sure that they knew about it long before that fateful morning.

There are too many "accidential" occurances happening all around us. Too many signs that we are headed down a terrifying road.

You ask an excellent question, how far are we willing to let them go? I want to do something. I want to scream.

Thank you for pumping up my brain this morning!!!

[Atman]

2. Me too

Something just ain't right. That's all I keep thinking as I watch the government remain completely unresponsive to the will of 70% of the population. In a "democracy," those numbers would scare the shit out of any politician. Here in America, though, the people's voice has been effectively silenced. We're tossed a bone and allowed to rant on our little message boards, but try getting permits for a march on Washington anymore. The 15th thing is running into serious roadblocks, I hear. Something...just...isn't...right.

.

[againes654]

4. Scared for my children

What is this nation coming to????

[bdamomma]

6. if they (DC police) are looking for a confrontation they are not

going to get it on the 15th, most people who go to those protests are not to going to start a confrontation.

[IDemo]

3. Peak Oil, economic collapse, gas and food rationing

monumental and wide-scale.

[havocmom]

5. Water too

They are making sure the corporations 'own' the water.

[Ghost in the Machine]

7. What Neocons Believe

"Neocons" believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough. One such threat, they contend, was Saddam Hussein and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 1991 Gulf War, neocons relentlessly advocated Mr. Hussein's ouster.

Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

[warren pease]

8. As far as necessary to...

... create a climate of worldwide militarism, US imperial hegemony, perpetual bankrupting of the US treasury and continued upward transfer of remaining wealth via war spending, projecting American military power into the Middle East in a strategy they call "full-spectrum dominance," and oh by the way, making billions off Iraqi privatized oil and weapons sales to the Pentagon and "friendly" countries around the world.

It's possible that you're referring to a lengthy position paper they released in 2000 called "Rebuilding America's Defenses," which you can download (pdf file) here: http://tinyurl.com/yu3a4 (scroll to the last entry on the page)

Of particular interest are the signatories. If you go to the last couple of pages, you'll recognize quite a few names from BushCo and from the cadre of unofficial advisers who whisper dollars, death and destruction into the ears of BushCo principals at every opportunity.

There's also an interesting statement in Section V (beginning on page 50), entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force," which includes this somewhat revelatory sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor." (top left column, page 51)

This sentence has been among the key arguments used to advance the LIHOP/MIHOP interpretations of 9/11. Whether BushCo pulled off Reichstag Fire II or 9/11 really was an act of external terrorism (or a combination of the two), that line demonstrates the kind of thinking PNAC and, by extension, this administration routinely engage in that allows them to hopscotch over the corpses of nearly 3,000 people and use their deaths as excuses for ramping up the war machine and suppressing domestic dissent.

If 9/11 is the single catalyzing event that has justified even the most egregious BushCo actions -- and I submit they would never have been able to get near-unanimous consensus for this phony "war on terror" were the towers still standing -- then every single BushCo move (or screw-up) since 9/12/01 -- the attack on Afghanistan, the Iraq invasion, the patriot acts, Katrina, torture, Gitmo, signing statements, executive orders, Iran saber-rattling... not to mention the under-the-radar stuff like domestic spying or turning key regulatory agencies over to cronies from the very industries they're supposed to regulate (and note how well that's working out: tainted beef, poisoned pet food, lead painted kids' toys, environmental degradation, and so on) relies on 9/11 for legitimacy.

So, if 9/11 was actually a home-grown false-flag op, I guess that's how far they're willing to go. If all this posturing and forecasting about a new, bigger, deadlier terrorist attack on "the homeland" -- straight from Chertoff, Cheney, Fux news and the usual TV and newspaper administration mouthpieces -- turns out to be real, then I guess we'll know how much farther they're willing to go.

It's amazing that I suspect my own government of mass murder, and the willingness to repeat it as many times as necessary. But with these vampires in the white house, all bets are off. The evidence for a home-grown black op is pretty compelling, and the evidence for the ridiculous though official conspiracy theory is pretty thin -- 19 guys with box cutters piloting giant commercial airlines after training on single-engine Cessnas making in-flight maneuvers and hitting targets with the precision of 30-year veteran pilots, with a fourth plane intentionally crashed in rural Pennsylvania after the passengers made a "let's roll" mass suicide pact, even though the debris field was about six to eight miles long, indicating it was blown out of the sky and decomposed on the way down. Oh, and cell phones don't work at jetliner altitudes and speeds, so all those heartbreaking conversations they played for us a thousand times couldn't have taken place under the circumstances we're supposed to believe in.

Anyway, that's now far I think megalomaniacal fascists will go to grab and maintain absolute power. If there are no faux attacks between now and Jan '09, and they actually leave office in an orderly manner, then maybe I'll have to reevaluate their pathologies in light of that behavior. On the other hand, if they're the pure sociopaths I suspect them to be, we're in for a hell of a ride.


wp

[Atman]

9. "It's amazing that I suspect my own government of mass murder..."

And that's the saddest part of what will become Bush's legacy. He has managed to strip every last layer of trust and faith from the United States Government. I guess that's the final step before drowning it in the bathtub.

(EDIT) BTW, That wasn't the article I was thinking of, but it was a good primer nonetheless. The more I think back on it, I'm beginning to suspect that what I am looking for is an NPR story about this whole aspect of the PNAC/Neocon strategy; it was a story drawing on the report you reference, but expanding upon this notion of cataclysmic change. Unfortunately, it was after the WTC incident so my fear is they haven't gone as far as they're willing to.

.

[warren pease]

10. That other article...

I'll poke around a bit later today and see what I can find. Google has become one of my very bestest pals.

And it's actually Norquist who should be drowned in the bathtub, if the fat fuck would fit in one.


wp

[Swamp Rat]

11. All the way.

They are, after all, "staying the course" as we speak.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Living In A Bubble...The Parallel Universe

While the polls show one thing, those living in the DC fishbowl and right wing parallel universe see different. These are the creatures who get all their "information" from Drudge and Faux Noise, listen to Rushbo and Hannity and see any contrary opinion as being some attack that must be ignored or spun. Reality has no place here as it spoils the narrative...ruins the ego game and shatters morale.

This goes on since we truly have a Silent Majority...millions of us who fume and demand change, but the people in the bubble don't see us and avoid any contact. They don't see 500,000 people outside their windows, they don't run into our types at their drinkie drinkie parties and they sure don't deal in the real, gritty world most of us do. They couldn't be bothered.

The solutions are few...and take time and fortitude. That's the question that everyone needs to ask of themselves. How much will I take and what can I do about it. When these people in the Bubble see more of us than they do of themselves, then real change can begin.