NC School bans US Flag (among others)

[Squatch]

Note, the ads and layout of this link really make for a hard-to-read page...

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SAMPSON COUNTY, N.C. – On the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, students at one high school were not allowed to wear clothes with an American flag.

Under a new school rule, students at Hobbton High School are not allowed to wear items with flags, from any country, including the United States.

The new rule stems from a controversy over students wearing shirts bearing flags of other countries.

Link

:shrug:

[mmonk]

1. Seems fair.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Oh yeah.

Seen this sort of shit before. Kids want to start a homosexual support group, school doesn't let them, kids make an issue out of it, school bans all extracurricular activities.

[Squatch]

3. School motto: We're not happy until you're not happy.

[Deja Q]

4. Two words:

School uniforms

That used to be done in public schools. Then it went away. In the aftermath of that decision, right down to metal rock concert slogan-infested t-shirts and gang insignia, some are considering reimposing uniforms.

About bloody time. Count me in support of uniforms.

Then all this rubbish dialogue can go into the trash where it belongs.

Besides, why is any flag being sold as a piece of clothing to stain on?! It's a flag, not a shirt or blouse.

[KeineAhnung]

5. Say goodbye to common sense n/t

[Deja Q]

8. Would you care to elaborate on your comment?

I felt my argument, while not mired in deep explanations, contained at least a rudimentary explanation worthy of future discussion as needed.

One-liner throwaway responses are for jovial or sarcastic responses, or for television sitcoms. Not for any form of debate.

IMHO, of course.

[Squatch]

10. "Keine Ahnung", translated, mean's "I have no idea"

Therefore, you can potentially dismiss any future dialogue with said poster.

[JackRiddler]

31. Squatch, translated, means "no sense of irony."

From the Abyssinian.

[Lex]

16. If the students fight and argue over the various flags, then

no one wears any flags.

This sort of solution to a problem is not new, nor does it lack "common sense."

[Squatch]

18. If students fight and argue over various gym equipment, then

nobody gets to use any gym equipment.

Problem solved.

[Lex]

19. Wrong. Stupid analogy. Gym equipment has no inherent political commentary

as do flags.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. So you're saying kids shouldn't comment on politics?

Just sports n' stuff?

You wouldn't be a gym teacher, would you?

[Lex]

37. Um, no. That's not what I'm saying in the least.

I was specifically responding to how stupid of an analogy flags are to gym equipment.

One inherently has political content. The other does not.

That's all.

[Squatch]

42. And then, by extension, you're saying it's perfectly acceptable

to ban any speech that has "inherent" political content.

Okie dokie, mein Führer!

Corrected for spelling

[Lex]

48. No, by extension I'm not saying that.

I'm specifically explaining the difference between gym equipment (no political content) and flags on clothes (political content).

It'd be fine by me for them to wear whatever flag they want to wear.

But it's not okay to only ban certain flags and not others. Ban none or ban them all.

[Squatch]

54. Oh, really?

You'd be ok with a student wearing this flag in school?



As for: "I'm specifically explaining the difference between gym equipment and flags on clothes."

You can tell the difference between flags and gym equipment! Hooray! You may now graduate to the 1st grade.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Squatch]

73. Once more, for the slow learners in the back of the class:

YOU: "If the students fight and argue over the various flags, then no one wears any flags"

ME: "If students fight and argue over various gym equipment, then nobody gets to use any gym equipment."

The gym equipment is IMMATERIAL to this discussion. It was inserted to point out how absolutely DAFT your argument is. It was used to show, that if somebody chose to use YOUR argument, it's easy to apply it to anything which caused any sort of conflict.

[Lex]

87. You may surprised to learn that the Nazi flag in this country

is protected free speech under the 1st Amendment.

The school system was trying avoid a constitutional problem by banning all flags being worn so they could avoid the 1st Amendment problem of "preferred" political speech.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. You didn't explain what was stupid about the analogy.

You said flags make a political statement, and gym equipment doesn't.

That doesn't explain why the analogy is flawed, it only illustrates a difference between flags and gym equipment.

[Lex]

52. The 1st amendment applies to political speech/content and not

to non-political speech/content.

I'm sorry, I figured we all knew that by now.

And yes, wearing a certain flag is political speech.

And no, gym equipment choice is not.

[Squatch]

57. You're kidding, right?

"The 1st amendment applies to political speech/content and not to non-political speech/content."

"...or abridging the freedom of speech..."

[Lex]

61. Okay, you try to make a constitutional argument for gym equipment

and how the 1st Amendment applies to it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. I wear a shirt saying "I like Nautilus brand gym equipment"

Some guy forces me to not wear that T-shirt. I take him to court citing my first amendment right to say I like Nautilus brand gym equipment.

Next.

[Lex]

68. "Some guy" is not the government of the US

or by extension, the school system.

The 1st Amendment applies to governmental interference with political speech.

Wow. Sorry I thought you understood that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. I understand that you're flat out wrong.

"The 1st Amendment applies to governmental interference with political speech."

So you're saying the government can ban non-political speech?

:rofl:

Jesus, what a sad state of affairs.

[Lex]

74. "So you're saying the government can ban non-political speech?"

Okay, now I'm just going to assume you are intentionally being clueless.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. Hey, it's pretty much a direct quote.

"The 1st amendment applies to political speech/content and not to non-political speech/content.

[Lex]

78. The political content of the t-shirts means it is a 1st amendment issue

and is protected under the 1st Amendment.

"Some guy" making you take off your nautilus t-shirt is not political speech and is not protected under the 1st Amendment.

That is all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. ROFLMAO

You get an F for 7th grade social studies today.

"The 1st amendment applies to political speech/content and not to non-political speech/content."

The 1st amendment applies to all speech.

"And yes, wearing a certain flag is political speech."

So now you're saying the 1st amendment protects the right to wear flags from foriegn countries? :rofl:

"And no, gym equipment choice is not."

No shit, Watson, what's your point?

[Lex]

64. "So now you're saying the 1st amendment protects the right to wear flags from foriegn countries?"

Absolutely yes.

[Dr. Strange]

85. Doesn't matter.

The school decided to ban the first amendment too. No point in allowing the constitution in the classroom.

And you sure as hell better not be wearing clothing with the constitution printed on it!

[gollygee]

76. Here's more common sense

If there are bigots causing discipline problems, discipline the bigots.

Why would the school think that not allowing flags on shirts would solve this problem anyway? Like nationalist bigots are going to say, "Oh well you're still from another country but you aren't wearing their flag anymore, so I'll leave you alone now. Have a nice day."

[Dollface]

6. Why is any country's flag banned in the first place? Seems it would improve geography scores.

From the article. "The superintendent of schools in Sampson County calls the situation unfortunate, but says educators didn’t want to be forced to pick and choose which flags should be permissible.

Personally I don't care for flag clothing but I'm a liberal so I don't go around trying ban things just because I find them to be in bad taste. ALthough I guess if someone showed up sporting an Iraqi flag t-shirt it might cause the students to react and possibly offer an opportunity for an open exchange of ideas. Can't be having that now can we.

[Squatch]

7. I wonder if they ban non-country flags

like this one:

[RaleighNCDUer]

80. Knowing the locale, I'd bet it's because of conflicts between those

who are immigrants wearing the Mexican flag and those who are morons wearing the Confederate flag.

[whistle]

9. Were confederate flags allowed?

[Lex]

12. There have been problems with the wearing of that flag too.

Solution: no one wears a flag on their clothes.

Easy enough.

[whistle]

20. Good, I take it that the U.S. Flag is allowed at the front of each classroom

...or at least in the public areas of the school?

[Lex]

22. Students can't WEAR any flags

it doesn't say the US flag is banned at the school altogether.

[Dollface]

11. Do gangs have flags?

[slackmaster]

13. This is the kind of PC assclownery that makes "progressives" look stupid

:nuke:

[Squatch]

15. Absolutely.

[Lex]

17. You think people in charge at that school are "progressives?"

LOL at you.

[slackmaster]

24. If not over-the-top progressives they are spineless wimps

Underserving of the responsibility of providing role models for young people.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Sounds like the work of conservatives to me.

Real cro-magnon conservatives.

The sort of people who are way too into dress codes.

[slackmaster]

34. A significant portion of the names on the school's faculty list look Cherokee

Check it out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. I see two people with the last name "barefoot."

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Lex]

56. native american origins

most probably

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. Yeah, and maybe Ellis Herring the custodian is a fish.

Regardless, what's your point?

[Lex]

66. Umm

are you normally this obtuse?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

72. Are you?

I claimed that this is probably a case of conservatism run amok, and you pointed out that a couple of people on the faculty have last names that may or may not be Native American.

What the fuck is your point?

[slackmaster]

82. Yes, probably a "Red" Herring at that

So much for conservatives running the school district.

:hide:

[Mike Daniels]

14. My guess for the whole start of this commotion....

based on my observations of posts on the same topic at FR is that someone came to school wearing the shirt of another county and got this response:

"Hey. You're in America now. Take that foreign shirt offa your stinking back and wear our flag or get out of this country."

Instead of sticking up for the student wearing the "offending" shirt the school board wimped out and decided to ban any flag related material.

[Lex]

21. Yes, that is the most likely scenario.

Believe me, I know this area of the state. It is the reddest of red.

Some kid probably tried to wear a French flag or something and got harassed or beaten up.

From the article: "The new rule stems from a controversy over students wearing shirts bearing flags of other countries."

[slackmaster]

23. There would be nothing wrong with a policy that allowed US flags only

Banning US flags is ridiculous.

[Lex]

25. Banning the WEARING of the US flag as a clothing item --

US Flags are not banned entirely at the school.

I get sick of seeing the flag treated as crap clothes from China anyway.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. There'd be nothing wrong with a policy that allowed US flags only?

Of course there is. That's unadulterated nationalism.

[Lex]

30. Zee school vill haf nozing but US flags on zee clothes!

See, what could be wrong with that?

[slackmaster]

32. They display the US flag on the flag pole in front of the school

And not that of any other country. Why not apply the same to student attire?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Why not? Because that would be stupid?

Say some kid wants to were a Mexican flag pin on his shirt. What's a good reason why he shouldn't be able to. Because this is America?

[slackmaster]

40. Freedom of expression is limited in school

There are a lot of things you can't wear, say, or do in class. The US flag should not be one of them.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Huh?

Freedom of expression is limited in school, therefore flags from other countries should be banned?

Does that make sense to you?

[slackmaster]

53. Yes, if it's causing discipline problems it makes perfect sense

Just as wearing gang colors, bare midriffs, baggy pants, etc. can be banned if they are causing discipline problems.

Banning the US flag just to be "fair" to other countries makes no sense to me at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. If it's causing discipline problems...

then the faculty needs to crack down on the bigots causing problems with kids wearing flags.

Banning flags, or say, the color blue, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

It's just plain stupid.

[Richard Steele]

44. Uh...because it's illegal?

[slackmaster]

83. Because WHAT is illegal?

:shrug:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. No...students harassing other students because they are wearing flags from other countries is

ridiculous. Banning the wearing of flags from other countries to alleviate the problem would be one of the most pathetic, narrow-minded things the school could do, and would somehow push the level of "ridiculous" straight off the edge.

[Richard Steele]

33. Actually, there would be quite a bit wrong with that policy.

And that School Board knows that.

[slackmaster]

38. The policy the Board has adopted is going to cause them a heap of trouble

If their motivation is risk avoidance, they're doing a terrible job.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

45. Absolutely it's a terrible decision. However banning all flags except the US flag would be a

terrible decision also. Ideally, they needed to deal with the problem, instead of using a blanket solution to avoid the issue.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Banning foriegn flags IS the stupid decision.

Banning U.S. flags is the ridiculous yet logical extension of the original stupid idea.

[Richard Steele]

50. I'll agree with that second statement, wholeheartedly.

And I can only HOPE that the first one is true as well.

If they had a few troublemaking students causing problems
related to foreign-flag-shirts, they should have disciplined
those students and taught them the error of their ways.

Instead, they've effectively enforced those students' opinions
upon the entire student body. That's just about as EXACTLY wrong
as can be IMO.

[baldguy]

36. This is so stupid - on so many levels.

Schools exist to teach children. If there's a problem with students wearing flags - find out WHY there's a problem & teach the the facts to alliviate the problem.

[Lex]

39. I agree.

nt

[gollygee]

46. And kids can't wear flags from other countries because . . . ?

That doesn't make sense. Why should it bother anyone if they wear a flag from the US or any country?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. Because if God had wanted people to come from other countries

...He wouldn't have made Jesus an American.

[Richard Steele]

55. Apparently, it riles up the FReeper-spawn, who then cause trouble.

And that district would rather pass new rules against the shirt-wearers
than enforce existing rules against the Freeper-spawn who were making trouble.

[Lex]

71. Exactly.

nt

[Mike Daniels]

62. It would be interesting to know what the offending flag(s) was/were

As it would possibly allow for some insight into a potentially deeper problem.

[Mike Daniels]

67. Who wants to bet that this will be the lead story on every FOX News program this evening

This is the typical red meat that Bill and Sean love to throw to their viewers.

[Lex]

69. BillO will undoubtedly be on fire about it, with the wrong facts

and background, as usual.

[Mike Daniels]

77. I'm predicting that this will be the script for Bill's coverage

1. Lead in with over the top outrage and be as inflamatory as possible

2. Go to his point/"counterpoint" duo of Michelle Malkin and Kristin Powers.

3. Malkin gets all hot and bothered over the fact that the US flag can't be worn instead of wondering what actions set off the policy to begin with.

4. Kristen Powers rolls over as always and meekly makes some sort of argument about some minor point while basically acknowledging that Bill's manly display of scorn for the county school board is 100% justified.

5. Bill then makes some smirking comment of how "representatives of blah, blah, blah were contacted and invited to participate but they either didn't return his call or responded with "no comment".

6. Bill cuts to commerical and he, Malkin and Powers all massage the others' egos.

[RaleighNCDUer]

79. But being Sampson County NC, you can bet

they still have their Dixie Outfitter t-shirts and book bags and shit.

[Nikki Stone1]

81. Isn't NC the first new National ID card with the North American Union on it?

:tinfoilhat:

[HuffleClaw]

84. i'd be far more offended had the decision been to allow only US flags

this seems like an even handed decision, and one that is of course being portrayed completely wrong by the republican-owned corporate media.

[Mike Daniels]

86. Even handed approach but the least desirable even-handed option

Ideally, the school board should have said that people are free to wear clothing that displays the flag of any nation and then taken any troublemakers to task.

This is basically the school board just wimping out in order to avoid making a stand on general principle. And, in the end, they still haven't made anyone really happy.

[Yukari Yakumo]

88. I smell lawsuit...

And it's a case this district is all but guaranteed to lose.

[chaska]

89. I like it. Flags kill.