Are you embarrassed by some of the views expressed by fellow DUers?

[bryant69]

I go back and forth on this issue myself, but I think it's best not to be. Being embarrassed by what CodePink does or MoveOn does is one thing - those are public organizations making very public statements. But this is a discussion board; there seems little point or value to getting embarrassed because someone expresses an opinion you don't agree with. Rather given the format of this board, it seems like that would happen constantly, no matter where you sit on the political spectrum.

On the other hand, I could certainly be wrong.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[BlueIris]

1. Yes, but I'm sure the feeling is often mutual.

Sometimes, I get frustrated, though.

[Junkdrawer]

2. This would embarrasses the shit out of me if I took DU seriously...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1795477#1796211

[mmonk]

3. I don't understand.

Why be embarrassed with give and take? That's what's lacking in this country while it continues to sleep.

[Moochy]

4. Agree 100%

Let us all stop being PR managers for DU! I'm not convinced all those who express concern over 'embarrassing' statements made here or in the media are being honest about their motivations. Often I think its a tiny figleaf that barely conceals their real motivation to shame others into compliance, Groupthink 101.

< on edit: quoted embarrasing >

[MuseRider]

5. Embarrassed because someone else

has a different opinion than I do? Never. That would be boring and we would never get anything done. Discussion, no matter how difficult it is at times, is what makes change and gives forth new ideas. It is essential to problem solving.

I am certain that a lock step board would be sparsely populated and pretty vile.

[madokie]

8. I hope someone else has a different opinion than me so we can discuss and arrive at the truth

myself I could care less if I 'win' any argument, by loosing I win, I learn. ;-) Oh and I agree with you

[InvisibleTouch]

6. No.

If someone or some organization expresses a view that I find outrageous, I may shake my head in disbelief, but I'm hardly embarrassed by it. That's their view, and has nothing to do with me.

[porphyrian]

7. How can anybody be embarrassed by the actions of others?

I understand feeling embarrassed for someone, in an empathic way, when they embarrass themselves. But being embarrassed personally by the actions of others is something (like when your dad tries to joke with your friends) that we get over shortly after adolescence. I thought the majority of DUers were older than that.

[bryant69]

10. I don't know if you get over it, but you get more control over your life

and can generally avoid such situations. But consider if you were eating out with friends and one of them suddenly told a racist joke - would you be embarrassed to be connected with such a person?

Of course as we get older we get more aware of who we want to be connected to and can control those relationships with a bit more finesse so as to avoid the above situation. In theory at least.

Bryant

[porphyrian]

17. If a friend of mine told a racist joke, there would be a context to it that made sense...

...because my friends don't tell racist jokes. But, let's say it happened your way - no, I would immediately confront them to get an explanation. I don't walk on eggshells with friends. If people in the restaurant reacted to it, I might even side with them. Because I control my own actions, no one else's, and mine are the only ones I'm responsible and accountable for.

[bryant69]

20. What if it were your boss?

But i get your meaning - I'd say, however, that's a skill that's hard to develop, and it's to your credit that you have developed it.

Bryant

[porphyrian]

26. I've worked for racists before, and I and the others in my position took their money...

...until we couldn't stand it any more. In the racist-joke-in-a-restaurant scenario, my unfavorable reaction and expression would again exonerate me from their behavior. I'd feel anger, disgust, maybe even pity, but not embarrassment.

[Moochy]

13. The Power of Shame

A rather blunt instrument of social control... but that doesn't stop many 'self-important' DU'ers from trying to wield it in service of their favorite talking point.

[porphyrian]

21. I guess I just don't respond well to guilt manipulation or pressure to conform.

I think it's helpful to keep things in perspective - how many people really do this in any thread? Ten? Twenty? Usually less than ten, with three or four "I totally agree" people backing them up. That hardly constitutes a DU majority, and helps expose them for the Behavior Control Technicians that they are.

[Moochy]

23. Behavior Control Technicians!! very apt.

O8) O8) O8) And Ye Shall Know Them By Their Abandoned Subthreads. O8) O8) O8)
Yes I did not mean to say it was some majority of DU'ers.. just the "self-important" behavior control technicians.


BTW I love that term.. "Behavior Control Technicians"

[porphyrian]

28. Heh, indeed. -n/t

[porphyrian]

62. I took it from the band Fishbone, so the credit isn't mine.

But I've been using the term since they coined it.

[ronnie624]

59. Very true.

And apparently, 34% of those who responded to the poll, are completely unaware of the manipulation. No doubt the figure would be much higher amongst the general population.

The power of political propaganda is easy to understand.

[lonestarnot]

9. Ok WTF are you babbling about this a.m.?

[bryant69]

11. All part of my master plan to piss you off. Is it working? n/t

[madokie]

12. Have I tole you I love you lately

well here goes, I love you :hug:

[MuseRider]

14. I thought

lonestarnot was mine! Hey!

Guess we can share :shrug: :grouphug:

[madokie]

18. If we must ;-)

[lonestarnot]

85. LOL.

Why I oughta... :grouphug:

[lonestarnot]

84. Oh man.

:blush: I don't think Bryant69 does ... heh.

[rosesaylavee]

15. According to the front page, we have over 108,000 registered users

at the moment. I would guess there really are only 2-3000 active posters. I wince from time to time when I read something here but I don't identify that closely with any 'DU' identity. As a whole, I think we have a great group of activists on this board. And hopefully the lurkers here are getting what they need too.

DU is really a big tent - some here use their brains better than others.

[Odin2005]

16. I'm mostly embarassed by the conspiracy nuts.

[yurbud]

22. because the Bushies have shown such profound respect for law, our constitution, and human life?

[Odin2005]

80. What does that have to do with nutty conspiract theories?

[yurbud]

25. If a Third World country was attacked by a terrorist group funded by the leaders allies...

that country was never punished and barely even questioned about it while the attack was used as a pretext to attack other countries and seize dictatorial powers, you would suspect the leader of that country was grateful his ally did him that favor, and might even have asked for it.

[bryant69]

27. Wait, this is all hypothetical, isn't it? n/t

[yurbud]

32. yes. Third World countries don't have allies like Saudi Arabia who fund terrorist groups

and whose intelligence agents directed two of the 9/11 hijackers according to Sen. Bob Graham and the Joint Congressional Inquiry on 9/11.

From Boston Globe:

WASHINGTON -- Two of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers had a support network in the United States that included agents of the Saudi government, and the Bush administration and FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship, Senator Bob Graham wrote in a book to be released Tuesday...

http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/2007/02/probe-this-sen-bob-graham-said-two-911.

[bryant69]

33. Well if it's on a blog it must be true. n/t

[yurbud]

50. Boston Globe and others as well as interview with Sen. Bob Graham. Geeze, that was transparent

why don't you say "if it was written on paper, it must be true"?

[bryant69]

53. If it was written on paper it must be true.

I don't know - that didn't do anything for me.

[yurbud]

60. so if you don't hear Katie Couric or Bush say it, it isn't credible?

[bryant69]

63. Well Katie Couric is part of the "Liberal Media"

So I guess I don't trust her either.

Bryant

[DS1]

19. Not anymore, you get used to it

After reading some idiot's post and thinking "how in the fuck can this assface possibly come to this conclusion" and firing back and having it all deleted anyway, you disconnect yourself from it a little bit.

At that point, the morons, rubble-rousers, trolls, holier-than-thous, "enlightened" and the rest all fade off into insignificance.

:)

[supernova]

24. I'm occasionally embarrassed

usually at all the trimphalism when someone in the opposition dies. But I don't advocate that they don't express those thoughts. Ignore thread is a great feature.

And I think that if you are "constantly" embarrased, what are you doing at DU?

[yurbud]

29. you're probably still shocked to discover the girl you had cybersex with is a bubba named Cleatus.

I'm surprised you don't realize not everything you read here is sincere. A lot is posted by shills and trolls from the GOP and miniscule DLC to try to make their ideas look more popular with more people than they actually are.

In reality, they have microphallus and are trying to fool us by holding a magnifying glass in front of it.

[bryant69]

35. Well as a card carrying GOP troll I am of course aware of those conditions

Unfortunately I washed my card in a laundry day mishap a few weeks back. So now I'm a papery sludge carrying GOP Troll, but my shadowy masters have promised me that a new card is on its way.

Bryant

[yurbud]

42. I thought you were DLC. My apologies to you and Karl.

[bryant69]

43. Don't worry a lot of people make that mistake.

Honestly it's not like there's a lot of difference.

[yurbud]

49. DLCers don't court religious right as ardently, and they have a different colored parking sticker

[bryant69]

51. Well if you know all that, how did you mistake me for a DLCer? n/t

[yurbud]

61. I haven't read any of your posts pandering to religious right, and can't see your sticker from here.

[Moochy]

38. You got taken in by cleatus's sexy ways too??

[yurbud]

40. and he wasn't as cute as Hillary OR Ruprecht Murdoch

[Neecy]

30. no, not really

However, I'm embarrassed for my fellow citizens when I read some of the comments that are posted at the end of AOL news stories.

Appalling spelling, ignorance that would make a freeper look bright and well-informed, occasional outright lunacy and often racism/homophobia/etc,

You want to be embarrassed - look around and see what else is out there. This place is a palace in comparison.

[Katherine Brengle]

31. Yes, particularly on "women's" issues. Dismayed even. Consistently disturbed and disgusted even.

[Moochy]

36. Agreed

Thats the one area I think that official DU policy is lax. Way too much misogyny is allowed to stand if it's directed at "officially DU admin sanctioned enemies of the Party" here.

[CTyankee]

71. Didn't we once have a moritorium on calling women c**ts?

Oh, and the douche bag war threads were certainly enlightening.

[bryant69]

37. I can see that. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Frequently. n/t

[Nimrod2005]

39. I kind of like it here.........nt

[TahitiNut]

41. There are only three people who could even remotely have a valid answer to such a question.

Skinner, EarlG, and Elad.

Even then, it might indicate an unhealthy emotional development.

[bryant69]

44. Why only those three? I'm not sure I see the point

We all participate in the DU community; granted those three have set it up and done a lot of work to keep it going. But without the rest of us it seems like it wouldn't be worth the effort.

Bryant

[TahitiNut]

48. Do you often feel responsible or implicated by the behavior of others?

Personally, it's more than enough for me to pay atttention to my own behavior ... but I do remember being less emotionally mature.

[bryant69]

52. Well you should be proud of the emotional maturity you've achieved

You evidently don't need me to tell you that. But obviously there are a fair amount of DUers who are embarrassed by their fellow participants in this poll.

I was more curious about your statement that this was only an issue for those three people you mentioned.

Bryant

[johnnie]

45. Nope

DU isn't my whole life. It's a nice place to visit though.

[libnnc]

46. You embarrass me on a daily basis. n/t

[bryant69]

47. Thank you. It's just nice knowing I'm making a difference. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

54. I find it more broadly embarrassing that

by participating in politics in the smallest way, I am associated with people who worship flags, uniforms, police, and the military. It makes me want to get out of the country.

[bryant69]

56. That reminds me - I just about missed my 11:00 Hymn to Uniforms. Thanks for the heads up. n/t.

[Jed Dilligan]

58. I tried to respond to your moronic poll in all seriousness

and you come back with snark? Thanks.

[bryant69]

64. I apoligize - just struck me funny. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

68. Wasn't even directed at you

As far as I can tell you're an apologist for the rich but not a total knee-jerk authoritarian.

[bananas]

55. Pissed off. nt

[JNelson6563]

57. No but I would be too much so

to send friends from the real world here. There's just way too much clueless knee-jerk reaction, Dem bashing and vanity type nonsense posted here for me to recommend (I must say the popularity contest stuff we see sometimes is just beyond the beyond! Jr. high school anyone?).

I can overlook it as a long timer but I must say, if DU was in the beginning what it is today, I don't know that I'd have joined up & considered it the great source it is. No one joining today could know that unless they wade through the buckets of shit to find the hidden ponies.

Julie--who is still very appreciative to have LBN much as it's always been

[DemBones DemBones]

66. Yes, DU is often like a jr. high slam book.

I just noticed a thread asking, IIRC, who you would most want to respond to your post. :shakes head in disbelief:

Less and less chance of finding a pony these days, as you said.

Come, we go find real world.

[JNelson6563]

76. Your post reminds me

I also appreciate all the different forums on DU, it's mainly GD and ESPECIALLY GDP that seem more filled with all the aforementioned stuff.

:hi: Good to see you DB-DB.

Julie

[DemBones DemBones]

77. I agree on that. It seems impossible

to have a real discussion in GD or GDP now. I am so tired of all the polls about candidates and discussion of candidates. It's important but there's a helluva lot going on that's being ignored by the obsession with 2008.

You'd probably appreciate a thread I posted in editorials regarding an essay by Ernest Partridge of Crisis Papers. It's about the dangers of complacency, of Dems assuming we'll win in 2008. I think he is on the money with this. . . Just look for my name in the Posted By column, it's the only thing I've posted there recently.

It's always good to see you, Julie! :hi:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

78. At the risk of offending all the eighth-graders out there...

I often have to remind myself that not everybody who posts here is an adult with a little life experience and an understanding of how the world and politics really work.

[Marrah_G]

65. Hmmmmm... no

Embarrassment is saved for things I have control over. If my child behaves badly I get embarrassed because it does reflect upon how I have raised him/her. If a person I don't know behaves badly(imho) I may get frustrated or annoyed, but not embarrassed. I deal with this by using the ignore function a great deal.

[frylock]

67. absolutely! the hand wringing "what will (insert group) think" DUers are an embarrassment..

use the MoveOn and Code Pink "controversies" of this past week as an example.

[bryant69]

70. Yes those were pretty embarrasing - I see your point. Particularly that MoveOn ad

But of course that's a public statement by a group seen as representing liberals-not really the same as a discussion board.

Bryant

[Forkboy]

69. I'm embarrassed for people, not by people.

[ReadTomPaine]

72. I'm more embarrassed by the Democratic Congress then by Democratic Underground. n/t

[AlCzervik]

73. embarrassed--no, amused and annoyed at times but never embarrassed.

[Minimus]

74. Nope. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

75. Given that the line betwee sardonic wit, sarcastic humor ,biting satire..

And blatant trollery is a nebulous one then mostly no..

There isn't a whole lot I take for granted any more.

[Evoman]

79. No, but often find authoritarian tendencies disturbing.

Buts it's not only on DU. I have a theory that maybe its genetic or primitive and completely natural. Maybe being submssive to authority and making excuses for them is a human condition.

Can't say I don't find it scary though.

[LeftishBrit]

81. I don't know that 'embarrassed' is the word; but I do feel uncomfortable about links to nasty sites

Doesn't happen often, and probably not deliberately; but sometimes people don't check where an item comes from if it supports their theory. I feel uncomfortable to see links to very right-wing or racist sites on a liberal board on which I post a lot.

[Behind the Aegis]

83. I agree.

Not just sites that are more than questionable, but when others defend such sites and cross the line into posting bigoted remarks, knowningly or unknowingly.

[Raejeanowl]

82. Embarrassment By Association?

Well, I believe there is such a thing, transitory though it may be.

To the extent that the membership of DU is a (albeit liberal) microcosm of the human race, I can be both proud and embarrassed to be a part of either. I mean, GW and his cohort?

However, being a DUer is elective. And I've already considered punching my still-wet ticket when I've seen these Group-Think threads supporting the exercise of the same First Amendment rights to liberal ,that would be excoriated as something inappropriate if not illegal coming from conservative mouths.

I sometimes have to remind myself that I can no more take the blame for the dunderheaded than the credit for the greatest thinkers among us.

[robcon]

86. I saw one: "Mexico is known for its lawlessness"

It was the most racist comment I've seen on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1790516&mesg_id=1797426