Beware Lying Ass TV Car Ads: They Are Citing FALSE MPG ESTIMATES!!

[The Cleaner]

Something I've noticed the past few months: Car companies citing false MPG estimates in their car ads.

On average, the most economical non-hybrid cars get 30-33 MPG in the city. This includes the Toyota Corolla, Yaris, Honda Fit, etc. in the "compact" to "subcompact" class. But just the other night, I saw a car ad that cited a non-hybrid SUV as getting 38 MPG!! And it doesn't end there. Virtually every car ad, SUV or otherwise, is citing mileage estimates of over 30 MPG. But there's one problem. Only a handful of cars get 30 MPG in the city. Most get less, unless you go hybrid.

I've noticed it in other car ads too, then I'll go and read all the reviews for that model - and in every case, the MPG ratings are FAR FAR LOWER than what the TV ads are claiming.

It's time the car companies stop their FALSE ADVERTISING and stop playing their consumers for suckers.
:mad:

[theoldman]

1. The auto manufacturers have always posted false mpg.

Only a fool would believe the advertised millage.

[ReadTomPaine]

2. Wish granted. They are changing the MPG formula to be more accurate for the 2008 model year...

From Wiki:

Current EPA testing procedure through 2007

Two separate fuel economy tests simulate city driving and highway driving: the city driving program consists of starting with a cold engine and making 23 stops over a period of 31 minutes for an average speed of 20 mph (32 km/h) and with a top speed of 56 mph (90 km/h); the highway program uses a warmed-up engine and makes no stops, averaging 48 mph (77 km/h) with a top speed of 60 mph (97 km/h) over a 10 mile (16 km) distance. The measurements are then adjusted downward by 10% (city) and 22% (highway) to more accurately reflect real-world results. A weight average of city (55%) and highway (45%) fuel economies is used to determine the tax.<6>

In some cases, this tax may only apply to certain variants of a given model - for example, the 2004–2006 Pontiac GTO did incur the tax when ordered with the four-speed automatic transmission, but did not incur the tax when ordered with the six-speed manual transmission.

New 2008- EPA testing procedure

As a means of reflecting real world fuel economy more accurately, the EPA adds three new tests <7> that will combine with the current city and highway cycles to determine fuel economy of new vehicles, beginning with the 2008 model year. A high speed/quick acceleration loops lasts 10 minutes, covers 8 miles, averages 48 mph and reaches a top speed of 80 mph. Four stops are included, and brisk acceleration maximizes at a rate of 8.46 mph per second. The engine begins warm and air conditioning is not used. Ambient temperature varies between 68 to 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

The air conditioning test raises ambient temperatures to 95 degrees Fahrenheit, and the vehicle's climate control system is put to use. Lasting 9.9 minutes, the 3.6 mile loop averages 22 mph and maximizes at a rate of 54.8 mph. Five stops are included, idling occurs 19 percent of the time and acceleration of 5.1 mph/sec is achieved. Engine temperatures begin warm. Lastly, a cold temperature cycle uses the same parameters as the current city loop, except that ambient temperature is set to 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

[ReadTomPaine]

4. Some additional links about the MPG formula change for '08....

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/news/2007/09/epa-mileage-figures/overview/0709_mpg_ov.htm

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770226012

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116852698135573876-y0Jaigab2s_5rZh87waRfGKdR4g_20080125.html?mod=blogs

[JuniperLea]

10. It still won't match up to MOST drivers...

It's all about the driver and not much about the car.

[ReadTomPaine]

11. Very true, but as a benchmark it needs to be about the car and not the driver...

The tests could and should do all they can to remove driver variance from the equation. That said, in real world, the driver is the greatest variable in the MPG equation.

The new tests are a big step in the right direction, however.

[JuniperLea]

33. Everyone drives differently...

they aren't going to get much closer to "the truth" because there is no norm. The only way people will be happy is if they understate the mileage, and that won't sell cars.

[ReadTomPaine]

35. Strictly from a test consistency standpoint the driver's inputs must be normalized...

or what you are testing is the driving, and not the car. That's standard in benchmarking tests, I did them for a living in another industry for close to a decade.

The driver doesn't come with the car - so the variations a driver brings to the wheel need to be factored out to have an objective means by which to compare these vehicles in a meaningful, consistent manner. The tests have to be precisely the same from car to car, truck to truck, or the benchmark loses most of its value. Replicability is key in any scientific testing. One of the ways that's done here is to make the driving perfectly identical.

I won't argue about exaggeration, that's par for the course and expected in an advertising driven industry, but at least they are directly addressing the accuracy issue with better tests.

And of course the famous disclaimer... "Your mileage may vary....." :)

[catmandu57]

3. Estimate being the key word

As long as they don't say the actual mileage and use the weenie word estimate, then it's up to you to decipher the bs.

[Bassic]

5. They always talk about highway driving figures.

Which are a lot higher than city driving figures.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. I tend to use this site

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

I've found it's closer to actual MPG than the "estimates" that the industry uses.

[krispos42]

7. They put the highway mileage in big letters

And the lower city mileage in small letters.

Welcome to the world of advertising.

They are using EPA estimates, too, which suck. They basically assume you drive like a grandmother. Not faster than 50 or 55 mph on the highway, or 25 on city streets. And that you treat the gas pedel like it's made out of blown glass.

The feds are using a new testing regime this model year, which more accurately reflects real-world mileage.

This is why it is important to read the car magazines, if nothing else for the fact that they reveal their observed mileage while testing a car. The long-term tests are especially useful, because you get the numbers for an entire year's worth of driving.

Usually, the observed fuel economy is a hair lower than the EPA city estimate. Of couse, being car nuts they might hammer the gas more than you or I... but maybe not! :-)

[ReadTomPaine]

8. Yup - check post #2 for details of the MPG formula changes

I second your suggestion to read the car mags. It's one of the few fields of journalism where the press does their job reasonably well in the USA.

[JuniperLea]

9. THEY ARE NOT LYING!!! MPG depends on the driver

What the auto company post are ratings derived from running a car on what amounts to a treadmill.

When you accelerate too fast, you use a ton of gas. When you wait for the last possible second to stop, you waste gas. When you have improperly inflated tires, you waste gas.

I get far better gas mileage than my car's manual says I should get.

I learned a lot about cars when I was a kid and I helped my dad rebuild a '57 Chevy. It was one massive question and answer session. I was forced to do a lot of research during that project... and my reward was being able to drive that sweet ride!

Every lead-foot I know tells me the car maker lied... all I can do is... :eyes:

[CRF450]

12. Exactly!

I dont get it when people say auto makers are rating their fuel milage as too high. Usually any vehicle will average somewhere between the city and highway estimates. Now if your driving in stop and go traffic, of course your gonna get right at or below the city mpg figures. My Dodge Dakota does while I'm working in my route, which is 15mpg. But when I'm on the highway it gets right up to where the highway esimates are, which is around 20mpg. My Trans Am is the same way although I dont do much stop and go driving so I average around 23mpg. Its highway rating is 28mpg, and I have reached 31mpg going 74mph on an interstate trip.

[ReadTomPaine]

13. V8s have remarkably good gas mileage if you keep your foot out of the zoom zone...

The beauty of engines like the 350 is that with a light foot you can turn around 80 MPH at around 2000 rpm or so - the engine is barely over idle. That returns excellent gas mileage as well as lowering maintenance costs. High torque figures also mean you need less time at higher RPM to pass.

[CRF450]

14. Thats the great thing about these motors but people still pass them off as gas guzzling beasts

As a side note, the engine in my car is an LS1, its not a 350 like they say on paper. Its acutally 346ci. And it shouldn't be compared to other 350's GM has made. Back in 97 it was a whole new engine built from the ground up for the newly redesigned Corvettes at that time. The block and cylinder heads are made of aluminum to make it light weight.

4 cylinder engines are great and all and getting more powerful, but I hate how their power curve is. Ablsolutly harly any low end grunt, you gotta rev the hell out of them to make power.

[ReadTomPaine]

19. Low end torque is why diesels are so popular in Europe these days..

They mate a V8 like rush of low end torque with high mileage and durability to make for a very practical combination.

I've been impressed with GM's dedication to the pushrod small block for decades. It's not my favorite engine design, but it's a very efficient package when size, weight and cost are all factored into the equation,

The newest LS 3&7 variants are amazingly well designed powerplants. Cheap, rugged, powerful & reasonably efficient give the output they produce. They even have variable valve timing. Csaba Csere discusses both this and the new MPG standards in his column in the latest Car & Driver, btw. Very timely.

[CRF450]

27. You know, I would love to do an LS7 conversion to my T/A!

Sadly, that engine cost 12 grand plus thousands more for supporting mods, like rebuild tranny, rear end, battery relocation (since the engine is a dry-sump motor, an oil container would have to go where the battery is) custom mounting brackets etc etc...

I seen someone do it before and in for him the whole project costed around $20 grand!

[ReadTomPaine]

32. That plus the F body host car cost is still well below the price of a new LS7 Vette...

esp if you already have the F-body car in your garage.

My fave T/A was actually the '89 Turbo with the GN's intercooled 6 in it. I am partial to forced induction. The final generation F-body cars were impressive with everything but space utilization. Very nice ride for the money, always liked them more than Mustangs.

[CRF450]

36. You must be reading my mind, I love those cars too.

Atleast their holding, or going up in value unlike most f-bodies.

[CRF450]

15. Oh yeah, my T/A has a 6 speed tranny, so 74mph was like 1700rpm

You cant even go into 6th untill ya get almost 65mph without lugging the engine.

[The Cleaner]

17. So...if a car commercial told you an SUV got 45 MPG that's okay?

Because you "might" actually get 45 MPG? That's simply not possible!

:shrug:

[ReadTomPaine]

20. With powerplants getting more and more efficient, the main culprit these days is weight...

Current automobiles are absolute pigs at the scales, with an amazing 4000 lbs being alarmingly common in full size sedans. That's just insane. Many SUVs tip the scales at 6000. Some sports cars are even well over 3500 pounds. It's crazy.

Weight is the enemy of everything automotive, from speed and handling to braking and MPG. Some of that weight penalty is due to improved safety design, but much of it is due to exclusionary legislation designed to keep certain car makes/models out of our tight auto market as well as feature creep and a lean toward mammoth, garage straining size.

Every new model seems to be bigger and heavier than the last. The new Scion xB is a prime example. It's a full 600 pounds heavier than the previous model. That's like going everywhere with 2 linebackers in tow. Sure, you can add horsepower to compensate, but it's a poor solution to the problem as some things are lost that a more powerful engine cannot cure. This is why a 190HP Lotus Elise is faster around some racetracks than a mighty 436HP Corvette.

[CRF450]

31. So true...

All the safety crap their putting in cars is getting rediculous.

All that, and yet people are still driving like idiots and causing fatallities.

[CRF450]

23. No but thats the thing with car ads.

They describe the specs of a vehicle in a certain way and they do that to sell it!

[JuniperLea]

34. If it got 45 on their best-case-scenario machine

Then it IS possible.

[JuniperLea]

22. Yep! I used to get 30mpg with my 72 Cadi

On the interstate between LA and Las Vegas. And I've been known to get far less with my new Mazda because I like to make it go zoom zoom zoom:)

[The Cleaner]

16. First of all, I'm not a leadfoot.

The commercials I have been seeing on TV have cited very high MPG estimates, with no city/country distinction. They just say "Gets XXX MPG" and that's that.

An SUV that gets 38 MPG? Come on! Of course they are lying. No SUV gets that.

[CRF450]

25. No SUV gets that?

The only one I know that gets up their is Ford Escape hybrid. Otherwise non-hybrids dont even get that close. Diesles on the other hand can.

[JuniperLea]

26. I used to get at close to that in my...

International Travelall... 1977... V8... no cruise control, no overdrive... you just go gently on the accelerator. Pretend you have a raw egg (in the shell) between your foot and the acelerator... tip from grandad... works like a charm.

As long as they are saying 38 MPG and that number appears on their test reports, they aren't lying because that vehicle CAN get that mileage. Put the vehicle on the test machine and it will absolutely get that amount. Have a very conscientious driver drive it and it will too.

[BlooInBloo]

18. They're not false. They're of the downhill-in-a-hurricane variety...

... a la Joe Isuzu, if anyone's old enough to remember that.

[The Cleaner]

21. Joe Isuzu wasn't *that* long ago, was it?

:shrug:

or am I getting OLD??

[BlooInBloo]

24. Upwards of 20 years now, isn't it? I afraid I think it's the latter of your options. :(

[The Cleaner]

28. Hmph.

Wikipedia says 1986-1990, then it was resurrected in 1999-2001. So maybe I'm not so old after all :bounce:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Isuzu

[BlooInBloo]

29. Whatever helps you to sleep better at night. :)

[Initech]

30. FACT: Car companies lie all the time.

I can prove this by drawing it in the dirt. They'll lie about anything to make a sale. I had one guy lie to me about their dealership being on the Costco/AAA buying programs. Another one lied to me about where the car was made. So car companies lying about gas mileage estimates is nothing new.