Off-duty cop killed after Gatling gun discharges at a gun club exhibition

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/557143,CST-NWS-gat14.article

September 14, 2007

HOLLIDAYSBURG, Pa. -- A military-style machine accidentally discharged at a gun club exhibition, killing an off-duty police officer who was working with the weapon, state police said Thursday.

A Gatling gun mounted on the back of a Hummer discharged Wednesday night during a demonstration, shooting Michael Kurty, 36, of Hollidaysburg, once in the head.

''We don't know if it malfunctioned, or if he was trying to clear it, but it appears to be an accidental shooting,'' state Trooper Jeff Petucci said.

More than 100 people were at the Hollidaysburg Sportsmens Club in Frankstown Township, about 90 miles east of Pittsburgh, during the shooting.

[T Wolf]

1. Children of any age should not be allowed to play with guns.

And a Gatling gun mounted on a Hummer!!!! What kind of psychotic asshole does something like that?

[DCKit]

3. Why was it loaded?

Word to the gun-nuts, if you can't handle your weapons responsibly, you don't deserve the right to have them.

[opihimoimoi]

2. Wannabe soldiers should enlist....not play....

[Squatch]

10. He was a police officer.

They typically have more exposure to firearms than most soldiers.

[opihimoimoi]

32. IMHO, only a Wannabe puts a Machine gun on a Hummer.....

[slampoet]

36. Oh PULEEEZE.

What cop fires mortars?

Grenades?
Artillery?
Full auto tripod mounted machine guns?

I swear the COPS ARE GREAT crew is like trench foot on DU.

[slampoet]

37. Live by the. Die by the.

Sad Really.

[benEzra]

4. The gun was owned by a CORPORATION marketing its products to the PRISON INDUSTRY

during a promotional event for law enforcement officials. Those guns cannot be sold to anyone but police, military, or the government.

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/15269.html?nav=742
http://www.dsiiti.com/about/documents/NEWAPAgenda_2007.pdf

The gun was a GAU-17 Minigun like those the military mounts on helicopters, or that are used by the Secret Service and some other Federal agencies. Here's a video of the type of gun involved (in a Secret Service type vehicle):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb3DAc_o-dM

I know bashing gun owners is sort of a pastime for some DU'ers (never mind the fact that half of gun owners are Dems and indies), but this is not about gun owners, gun shows, or civilian gun ownership. It is about egregious safety violations by people trying to sell stuff to the government, and the victim was a police officer.

[backscatter712]

5. Yeah, this one sounds like natural selection.

A cop of all people should be trained in firearms safety and know the golden rules (All guns are always loaded. Never point a firearm at anything you do not wish to destroy. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. Be aware of your target and everything around and behind it.)

I'd like to hear more about what the cop was doing when the gun discharged - maybe it qualifies for the Darwin Awards.

[benEzra]

6. I've read that someone (not necessarily the victim) was trying to clear a jam.

My guess is that somebody turned the barrel assembly while trying to clear the jam, forgetting that a Gatling gun's firing mechanism is operated by spinning the barrels, not by pulling the trigger; as I understand it, the trigger on a GAU-17 controls the ammo feed, not the firing mechanism, and the strikers are cammed by the rotation itself, so the strikers are always operating when the gun is turning.

So, you have a malfunction, the gun stops with rounds in the chambers, somebody points the weapon in an unsafe direction while trying to clear the jam, they turn the barrel a sixth of a turn...and the gun fires the round that was just rotated into firing position. That's my hypothesis, anyway.

[RamboLiberal]

28. I posted part of an article

They disconnected the electrical power apparently assuming this controlled the firing of the gun. The individual only had 24 hours to familiarize himself with the gun. IMHO something like this should not be in private hands.

[madinmaryland]

9. Thanks for the update.

The artical linked to in the OP did not indicate that.

[RamboLiberal]

33. It was a gun shop just showing off the gun

at a handgun shoot and dinner that was sponsored by a software company marketing software used in prisons.

The gun was not being marketed and the gun shop had no connection to the software company. It's just a local gun shop in that area.

[madinmaryland]

35. The real problem is the Prison Industrial Complex. How much money

is being made off of the poorest of the poor.

:grr:

[happyslug]

14. GAU-17 Minigun Is a 7.62mm Gatling gun

This leads to two comments:

1. Was the jam in the gun or the feed mechanism. Gatling Guns are inherently jam-proof (i.e. rare for a Gatling Gun to jam), on the other hand, the feed mechanism do jam. Thus it is rare for Gatling gun to fire a round do to a "Jam". The problem was probably NOT in the Weapon but the Feed Mechanism. The Weapon should have been disconnected to the Feed Mechanism and then the jam corrected (as I suspect in the Feed Mechanism ).

I use the term "Feed Mechanism" instead of "Magazine" for these tend to be complicated mechanisms, not the simple spring of a Magazine.

2. Why do you need a Gatling Gun for Prison or Police work? I can see Guards scared in their shoes do the huge number of Prisoners attacking them with AKs and wear Masks) so that the only thing to stop such an assault would be a Gatling gun mowing the prisoners down while they charge (am being Sarcastic). Gatling guns are used when you need a HUGE number of rounds going down range. I am sorry, I just do NOT see that occurring in a Prison. If police need such a weapon who are their policing? (i.e. if Police need such weapons they are HATED by the population they are policing. That is NOT how police should operate. That is the job of occupational troops NOT police (And hopefully we NEVER need to occupy ANY part of the US).

For more on this weapon see:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m134.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m134.htm

[Hobarticus]

30. Zactly...this gun is not appropriate for law enforcement use

I am seriously perplexed as to why any law enforcement agency would need a minigun in ANY circumstances. An APC is one thing, but a gun like this does one thing: kill a lot of people in a short amount of time, indiscriminately. Heavy military hardware in the hands of day-in-day-out law enforcement...I don't know about you, but that scares the hell out of me in a lot of ways.

[RamboLiberal]

27. They weren't trying to sell the gun to the prison industry

The conference was for software used by prisons and parole officers. A handgun shoot was scheduled along with a dinner ala how some conferences schedule a golf outing. They brought in the gatling gun to give the attendees something exciting to witness. Unfortunately they witnessed something very horrible.

Police said Kurty was working for a company called East Coast Gun Sales, which owns the weapon and was putting on a demonstration.

Officials said Kurty and another person had fired several rounds that night when the gun jammed. The men disconnected power to try to clear the gun, but they did not know the firing pin could still activate even when the gun was powered down.

Kurty had about 24 hours to familiarize himself with the weapon, which can fire up to 4,000 rounds per minute.

Police said the gun was not defective and no charges will be field against the company.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/general-2/9470-man-killed-minigun-frankstown-page-3.html

On edit here's what I posted in the DU Gun Forum from Altoona newspaper.

The minigun was part of a weapons exhibition offered by East Coast Gun Sales, which hosted a pistol shoot and dinner for those attending a three-day conference offered by Digital Solutions/Inmate Telephone Inc., a provider of computer software for the corrections industry.

Here's their agenda: http://www.dsiiti.com/about/documents/NEWAPAgenda_2007.pdf

[RamboLiberal]

34. The gun was not owned by Corporation marketing to prisons

DSI is a software company. They were sponsoring a software seminar/show at the Blair County Convention Center.

East Coast Gun Sales is a gun shop.

The gun was not being marketed to prisons. The demo took place at a handgun shoot/dinner that evening. Like a golf outing.

[benEzra]

38. I said owned or chartered...it appears owned by ECGS and chartered by DSI.

To own the Minigun as a Class III SOT, ECGS would probably have to sell its wares to police, military, or the government, so it is possible they were putting their name out there as well. Or not, who knows.

I agree that they weren't marketing the minigun to prisons, but it may have been advertising for them as well as for the software company.

[Netbeavis]

7. I, for one, find the mocking of the death of a police officer in poor taste.

Accidents happen.

[IndianaJones]

11. par for the course hear. nt.

[bunkerbuster1]

12. Here, too.

My sympathies to the family of the officer. This is a tragedy.

[IndianaJones]

13. you're not hereing me. lol. nt.

[tabasco]

15. Somebody forcing you to be here?

Didn't think so.

The internet is a rough place for those of delicate sensibilities.

[IndianaJones]

16. Didn't complain. Just commenting. And I said hear..not here. nt.

[backscatter712]

18. I'm with you.

People shouldn't be so damned sensitive.

You're on an internet forum. A political internet forum. Expect to see insults. If you can't take it, go back to macramé.

[Beausoir]

17. Yes, accidents with machine guns in public places happen!

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happyslug]

19. From the Local Papers:

From the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat (Which is a Morning Paper, printed in Cambria County One County away from Hollidaysburg):

He was identified as 36-year-old Michael Duncan Kurty, described by the state police as being proficient in all types of firearms.

The incident happened shortly before 8:30 p.m. at the Hollidaysburg Sportsmens Club in Frankstown Township.
http://www.tribune-democrat.com/local/local_story_257002605.html

From the Altoona Mirror (Main paper in Blair County, Hollidaysburg is the County Seat, it is an afternoon Paper):
Blair County Deputy Coroner Jeff Guyer said Kurty, who was shot through the right cheek, died instantly from the military-caliber bullet. The apparently accidental shooting took place in front of more than 100 people.

State police at Hollidaysburg spent Thursday at the scene with agents from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Army personnel from Fort Belvoir in Virginia. The ATF and Army were called in because of the unusual and complex nature of the electrically powered Gatling gun.

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/15269.html?nav=742

[backscatter712]

22. That must have been one gruesome scene.

"shot through the right cheek" is likely a sanitized version of "blown half his head off."

[Hobarticus]

20. Someone's marketing Gatling guns to prisons and police departments?

THAT is scary.

Krikey, in a prison riot, how much firepower is required to subdue a bunch of guys armed with handmade weapons, at best maybe a few seized firearms, penned up in a small area?

I guess it beats building more prisons and easing overcrowding: just buy a single gun that can kill EVERYBODY in the prison yard in case of a riot.

[flashl]

24. One reason right to kill fleeing prisoners? n/t

[Hobarticus]

26. A Gatling gun puts out thousands of rounds a minute....

If it's used on a fleeing prisoner, it'll turn them to mush. If guards intend to shoot to kill fleeing prisoners, they already have weapons that can do that quite effectively.

If it's intended for riot control, it'll kill everybody in front of it...guards, prisoners, and anyone else in the way.

I don't have a problem with law enforcement carrying military-grade rifles....but Gatling guns are installed on aircraft, to shoot other airplanes down. That's a bit much.

[RamboLiberal]

29. Not being marketed to prisons - this was a software conference

for software prison and parole officers use. Instead of a golf outing they did a handgun shoot and someone thought it would be fun to bring the gatling gun down to demo and excite the attendees.

Maybe they got the idea from the Knob Creek machine gun shoot that's been featured on TV.

On edit here's what I posted in the DU Gun Forum from Altoona newspaper.

The minigun was part of a weapons exhibition offered by East Coast Gun Sales, which hosted a pistol shoot and dinner for those attending a three-day conference offered by Digital Solutions/Inmate Telephone Inc., a provider of computer software for the corrections industry.

Here's their agenda: http://www.dsiiti.com/about/documents/NEWAPAgenda_2007.pdf

[Hobarticus]

31. Holy crap, thanks...

for clarifying.

Terrible tragedy, in any case.

[tuckessee]

21. I've been to hundreds of gun shows...

...over last two & half decades in pursuit of WW2 collectibles and the only two times there have been accidental discharges it was done by uniformed cops with their service weapons.

Luckily, both times they shot themselves and only received minor injuries.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. What A Horrible And Tragic Accident. My Deepest Thoughts And Prayers Go Out To His Family.

[Indenturedebtor]

25. Not a big fan of guns

But truly this is a sad thing.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

39. Sounds rather like the guy was looking down the barrel ...

Not the smartest position to assume when trying to clear a jammed weapon.

A clear candidate for the Darwin Awards.