Yes. I blame Waxman, Conyers & Leahy.

[Disturbed]

They need to lay down Inherent Contempt on Karl Rove, Josh Bolton, Ms. Meirs & that General who failed to appear. Stop threatening with Contempt that would take years in Court.

Bring it on!

[cali]

1. I completely disagree.

And I do mean completely.

[Ghost in the Machine]

4. What do you suggest to do then?

Why is it that you completely disagree?

[cali]

7. First of all, there isn't anyplace to

even drag them off too. What are they gonna do, lock them in the janitor's closet? Second of all, they're all three doing a good job. None of them are spineless, and Leahy, as one of the most senior Senators, isn't beholden to Reid in any way.

[JDPriestly]

9. There is a cell especially for this purpose. Don't worry.

This has been done before.

[cali]

14. No there isn't. That got rid of it years ago.

And yes it's been done before. But do you know the last time it was done?

[TahitiNut]

28. The Senate jail is still there... and there's always RENDITION.

:evilgrin:

[JDPriestly]

31. The last time we had a courageous Congress and a politicized attorney general's office

I suppose.

Let me tell you a dirty little secret. If you get a subpoena to a deposition and you don't object or show up at the deposition, you will probably be cited for contempt. In California, I believe that means a fine of up to $1,000 and five (5) days in jail. And if you still refuse to appear, you can be cited again. That's probably pretty typical.

There is no excuse. These witnesses have to at least show up, testify and produce documents that are not privileged. And generally if you claim that documents are privileged, you have to identify each document and state why. That is the only way that the courts can determine whether your claim of privilege is justified.

If these subpoenas are not enforced, we are acquiescing to lawlessness. This is totally improper conduct. Remember when Jenna stuck her tongue out at the press. That's what these rogue administration ex-employees are doing. The president's lawyer may be able to refuse to answer questions that would encroach on privilege, but she still has to show up. She is no different than the rest of us.

[cali]

39. Well,

Inherent contempt is not the same thing as plain old vanilla Contempt of Congress. And I absolutely believe that the Senate and House JCs should hold Meyers, Rove and others in contempt. And I believe they will.

And by the way, the last time Congress exercised Inherent Contempt was 73 years ago.

[creeksneakers2]

41. They could lock them in an office n/t

[LSK]

16. actually there is a place to hold prisoners by the Capital police

[Ghost in the Machine]

26. Please show me *where* the OP says *anything* about Reid, or dragging

anyone off anywhere. Here it is again, and it hasn't been edited or anything, so it hasn't changed since your initial response:

Disturbed (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-14-07 07:03 PM
Original message
Yes. I blame Waxman, Conyers & Leahy.


They need to lay down Inherent Contempt on Karl Rove, Josh Bolton, Ms. Meirs & that General who failed to appear. Stop threatening with Contempt that would take years in Court.

Bring it on!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The purpose of Inherent Contempt is NOT to "drag them off somewhere", but to "drag" them IN FRONT OF THE COMMITTEE that has already subpoenaed them and they refused to show.

"Inherent contempt

Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation.)" {emphasis mine}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress

They could have Rove, Miers, Gonzo, Scandaleeza, or whoever, brought before the committee by force and make them sit there until the committee is satisfied with their answers. If they *still* refuse to comply, then turn them over to the custody of the local authorities to hold them in a cell.

I think the point of Inherent Contempt is to force the person to show up, willingly or not,.... *not* to hold them in jail for any length of time. It puts a very stern message out to EVERY elected official in D.C. that *yes*, you *will* show up when we call for you, or we *will* embarrass your ass and drag you in here in cuffs and leg shackles (if need be), for the whole world to see, and we will hold you here until you answer us. I *like* the idea myself. I want to see it!

I think it's a disgrace to our country that an elected official feels they can ignore a subpoena from Congress and get away with it. I want them proven WRONG.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. The senate has cells

I am sure they will gladly share

but I am sure you knew this


;-)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

46. What a crock.

No place to put criminals? Let them have free reign? meh!

[stimbox]

25. Of course you do.

Must toe the DLC line huh, cali?

[cali]

29. That;s right. That's why I support impeachment

As we all know, the DLC is a leading proponent of impeachment. And I support Bernie and Pat and Peter, well known DLC figures. Not to mention my local Progressive party, also a DLC affliliate.

Do you know how foolish looking such accusations are? But hey, if you want to leave the door open, I'll stroll right in. Gotta admit, I enjoy mocking content free, 3rd rate snark.

[stimbox]

33. content free, 3rd rate snark

:rofl:

[paulk]

38. you are referring to your own post,

I take it?

[jpgray]

2. I'd start with the media, and then the Dems who won't fully support the investigations

Rather than those who are pushing for them, but hey that's just me.

[terip64]

3. I disagree as well. Completely. n/t

[Disturbed]

6. People disagree and won't back up their stand.

And here I thought DU was a place for debates or at least discussions. Oh... well.

[terip64]

35. The dems are trying to get elected in '08, and they need to do that...

Then they will represent the majority of us, not just you and me. It is not only about what we want. God knows I wish it was. I live in rural MI, which is very scary at times. It also gives me some insight as to what the dems are really up against. Crazy Christians whose noses are in the Bible instead of DU, Rawstory and Buzzflash. They need to get elected and I believe that at the very best they are trying to represent all of us and get elected. And they need our help.

[terip64]

36. By the way, my mother called me after I posted earlier and I had to talk to her. She is in CT

where I grew up and voted for LIEBERMAN!!!! ARGGG! I need to get in her head whenever I get the chance so I was a little busy.

[blogslut]

5. No blame left for the folks defying the subpoenas?

Surely there's some blame for them somewhere. Have you looked behind the cushions? :)

[bigtree]

8. did they lose their magic wand?

:eyes:

[MonkeyFunk]

10. I prefer to blame republicans for the shit they pull

but that seems to be a minority view around these parts.

[Disturbed]

11. Railing against Rethugs and their crimes, hypocrisy & lack of

ethics does nothing.

Laying the blame on Dems that claim that they are going to hold Rethugs to account yet only threaten to do so then do not follow through in more important to me.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. Yes

when Republicans do something wrong, your first and best instinct is to attack Democrats. You're no alone around here.

[cali]

15. Please.

Either learn how to spell or use spell check.

[fooj]

37. Ouch.

Perhaps learning how to play well with others would be a good start, eh? Seriously, does a member's spelling have ANYTHING to do with this discussion? I think not.

[cali]

40. I find it distracting and

detracting. Seriously, it detracts from an argument. But I probably should have sent a private message. In any case, it does have something to do with the discussion.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

49. It distracts and detracts and detracts,

can't you see?






:9

[jgraz]

21. Blame the Rethugs all you want. The Dems are supposed to be holding them to account

Pretending that they're somehow living up to their mandate isn't going to do anyone any good.

[TahitiNut]

30. As long as there're a few Republicans to blame, the Democrats get a pass.

First it was because they were a minority. Now it's because they're not a big enough majority. What next? :shrug:

Promises, promises. :puke:

[jgraz]

32. It's sad. Whatever happened to cleaning your own house first?

:shrug:

[cali]

51. When you're attacking Leahy, Waxman and Conyers

who've been consistently fighting, you've fucking lost it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

34. Do you see what's wrong with your comment?

"I prefer to blame republicans for the shit they pull"

Ummm... they're *trying* to blame the republicans, but they won't answer subpoenas. So *now* you blame the Dems, who won't exercise their options given to them by the Constitution, for not holding the republicans accountable.

[jgraz]

43. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what's wrong with his comment

The goal is not to start a debate, but to stop it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1812511&mesg_id=1812511

[Ghost in the Machine]

45. Yes, that explains the crickets *chirp* *chirp*

:hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

47. Better to add insinuations disparaging the greater populace of DU? n/t

[L. Coyote]

12. Yes. I blame Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, McNulty, Sampson, Goodling, Griffin, Schlozman, ..list goes on

and it sure does not include those working day and night, running over 50 investigations, for the problem they are trying diligently and wisely, with far more experience than any of us bystanders, to repair in the face of the awesome power of the US Executive branch.

Fine idea, bring on inherent contempt if you can round up the votes, but your blame is misplaced!

[Disturbed]

17. "if you can round up the votes"

If enough votes to lay down Inherent Contempt cannot be gathered it shows how pathetic the Dems really are. Laws have been brocken but the Dems cannot even bring Rethugs in to testify under Oath. That is not acceptable.

[rateyes]

20. Don't you know that you're supposed to fix the jury...

before conducting the trial? :sarcasm:

[rateyes]

18. Rec. #4 coming your way....

right on target. Times a wastin'.

And, btw, you've broken the cardinal rule...don't criticize a Democratic leader, even when they do something wrong. :sarcasm:

[jgraz]

19. Don't forget Rice

Isn't she also defying a subpoena? Why the hell is this allowed to continue??

[Disturbed]

22. I read that Waxman gave her an extention & still wants her

to drop by when she can.

[jgraz]

23. Maybe he should offer her a cup of tea

:banghead:

[Disturbed]

24. Waxman could offer to take her shoe shopping after she

drops by to BS about her involvement with the Yellow Cake Scam.

[Virginia Dare]

27. I blame Bush and the GOOPs for usurping our government...n/t

[Disturbed]

42. Sure, it is the Neo Fascist;s take over of Amerika that is

to blame for the mess of a lot of situations & I demand that the people who committed crimes against the People have to be held accountable & sanctioned & imprisoned.

[mmonk]

48. These are hearings to bottle

the republicans up. But it doesn't seem to be about justice and remedy. As someone who is pushing for hearings on Sibel, I think I'm pretty much correct on this.

[Disturbed]

50. I forgot about the Gonzo E-mails that were subpoened.

Those were never delivered. Nor were E-mails from the RNC ever fothcoming. Yeah, it seems that the
Dems are not realy serious about holding the Rethug criminals accountable.

[KoKo]

52. The RNC E-Mails being witheld are the key. There shouldn't be any executive privilege for criminal

acts, i.e. conducting White House Internal Business having to do with the Country over RNC e-mail messaging. Yet...the e-mails are not delivered.

[Disturbed]

53. Thinking this over some more it has occured to me that

Subpoenas will be meaningless unless they are enforced. Sure, I am pleased that Waxman, Conyers & Leahy are still conducting investigations but if they cannot obtain the info that is needed to fully make any cases because their Subpoenas are allowed to be ignored then the process becomes worthless.