What would turn Republicans against the Iraq war?

[begin_within]

They're the ones obstructing the conclusion and resolution of this idiotic war. What would cause them to lose their support for it so that Congress could put an end to it?

[Booster]

1. The draft.

[Stargazer99]

3. the draft would snag mostly the middle income (wake up)

Hit 'em in the pocket book...that speaks louder than anything. Bush wants to make the upper income tax cuts permanent in this next budget. Guess who's going to make up the loss of tax income? You can bet it will be the little man. Just like it is now. Our sons/daughters are dying not the higher income.

[Booster]

17. Hitting them in the pocket book doesn't seem to get their

attention - they lost a pallet of 8 BILLION DOLLARS on it in Iraq and Americans went "ho hum". Nope, the only thing that will get their attention is if their loved ones have to go over there. They'll have a revelation from God that the war is wrong is a nano-second.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

15. Ah, the draft...

I have long thought this...

It's one thing to stick a red, white, and blue magnet on the back of your SUV; quite another to see those same colors flying over a grave. It's easy to be "patriotic", (really nationalistic), when your neighbor's kids are off to fight the good fight--quite another when it's your kids saying goodbye.

A fair and impartial draft will have people turning over cars in the streets before long. Until America learns the true price of endless war, wars will be endless...

[uppityperson]

23. "fair and impartial " that is the rub. Believing they would make it so is insane. nt

[JeffreyWilliamson]

25. Fair and Impartial...

We could always, with control of Congress, force a fair and impartial draft--but who here at this point trusts our current Democratic leadership to stick to their guns and really force a fair and impartial draft, (not a knock, but we all know how this has played out so far, power of the purse, etc.).

But I'm not so sure a draft would have to be fair and impartial. In a draft where richy-rich Repugs could defer--middle class Fox News viewers wouldn't have an out. They will be your car turners and protesters...

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Being forced to put thier own skin in the game

I hate to say it, but anything that will make them to risk limb, body and profits will do that in a jiffy

Oh and the word is... DRAFT... universal, no exceptions

It will also get the kids out

But it will get the selfless, yellow streaked, chickenhawks to poop and pee their pants, and demand we get out... after all they will support war and destruction as long as they don't have to actually risk life and limb

[PsN2Wind]

4. The draft minus the deferments that most of the administration

used to avoid VietNam, along with a surtax to pay for the war as it is being waged and a stringent anti-profiteering law. I asked this question of McCain 2 years ago, "if we are there for the survival of our very way of life, why are these not put into law", and expect an answer any day.

[wake.up.america]

8. The draft would do it. That would wake them up.

I think we have to consider Bush supporters as a members of a sect. At least those not making piles of money. The sect members have been lead to believe they have been chosen by God to survive the end of the world. Bush is God's earthly representative. Sounds crazy - right? I can't come up with any other reason for their behaviour.

[PsN2Wind]

11. They are obviously members of a sect where

"everyone wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die". Otherwise the military would be turning away recruits.

[mmonk]

5. Revelations of the truth made to the public.

And your view is simplistic but loyal.

[whoneedstickets]

6. If it turned out that Iraqi's were dontating to Democrats...

...supporting gay marriage, reproductive rights, and progressive taxation.

[jaysunb]

7. A fair draft.

n/t

[leftofthedial]

9. If they understood that Clinton is in favor of it

[L. Coyote]

10. You mean Rs in Congress. The People are already against it in large numbers

including many Rs.

[ScooterFibby]

12. Nothing will cause conservatives to disobey Big Daddy...

... because obedience is what makes a good conservative.

There is now some scientific evidence that political conservatives tend to continue to make wrong decisions when presented with change and new evidence. Liberals have more ability to stop and think when faced by change. Conservatives just don't have that ability.

Conservatives and liberals were both presented with images of Ms and Ws and asked to press one of two buttons. Most of the time they were shown the same image. 10% of the time they were shown the "other" image. Conservatives pressed the wrong button much more often than liberals in that case. Liberals had a much larger activation of brain cells during the changes.

We need to stop trying to change the minds of those who don't think well when faced by change and new evidence. Whether by genetics or training, they can't accept change and make the right decision. They are followers. They are less able to make their own decisions.

That is their strength, but also their weakness.

We need to find a way to do this without them. How? The way that the righteous minority has always done it - by speaking up, loudly. By demanding justice. By protesting. By resisting. By passing laws. By pressing our case in the courts. By taking the fight to them with the strength we have - independent thought.

We must make individualism count again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. First welcome to DU

second, Conservatist relish in individualism, what I like to call Reaganism (thanks Thom Hartmann)

What we need to do is return this coutry to the principles of community

As to the studies, you are right. but self preservation has a way of changing brain chemistry.

[ScooterFibby]

18. Thanks for the welcome!

Community is not a homogenous group of "thought slaves", it is being an individual, a family, in a social matrix. It is freedom to be oneself without fear, without conformity, without having to march in line or parrot talking points.

Conservatives claim individualism, but do not demonstrate it. Their "rugged individualism" is little more than posturing imitations of frontiersmen. Their repeated calls for arming citizens, performing their own law enforcement, and the rush to judgment and punishment all tell the same story... a group that has little tolerance for differences and individual thought.

Liberals truly excel at individualism. EVERY VOICE MUST SOUND. We must make individual effort a strength in our organizing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I know what you are saying, the difference between

myth and reality

But Hartmman explains this in the following way

Liberals are about community and the Commons, and sharing of the commons

Conservatives are all for the rugged individual (as defined by Reagan)

Liberals are about good government

Conservatives are about... cue ronnie reagan... The seven scariest words in the english language are, "I am from the government and I'm here to help."

When you look at this make up, that is why a Draft would scare them shitless

The military is the most community based organization ever, and if you don't play well with others, you may kiss your behind good buy... which I know is ironic.

It is also top down, but that is a matter for the grist another evenening...

Of course I also agree with some of the Federalists and their stance on community, again a matter for another night

;-)

[JeffreyWilliamson]

16. Beautiful...

This is very good. There are many ways that this can be stopped. A draft is one, this is another. There are all sorts of ways that thinking people can put a stop to this crap. We all need to organize.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. And you too, welcome

[JeffreyWilliamson]

26. Thank you!

Thanks, so far it's been a pleasure. And hopefully it will be for a long time to come! Nice to meet you, I'm Jeff.

[Raksha]

13. What will turn them against the Iraq war is the upcoming recession.

That will make it painfully clear to everyone exactly who profits from this war...and who doesn't.

[SeattleVet]

19. Strict enforcement of any applicable laws concerning 'war profiteering'

would make a lot of them scurry back under their rocks. Once the profit motive has been removed, support will just melt away.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. That too, and welcome home soldier

and to du

[JeffreyWilliamson]

27. Agreed...

I'll second that. Welcome home and welcome to here, (even though you have more posts than me).

I am a firm believer that you can disagree about a war but still support the troops. You guys do amazing things, and show courage that is an inspiration--keep being amazing. More people should be like you.

[SeattleVet]

29. ??? I've been here for over 2 years.

Read a lot, post infrequently.

12 years Air Force - 1972-1984. Been home for quite a while now <g>. I left the service while that (&*^*%&^% Reagan was in office.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

33. Ah, a fellow lurker...

I have been coming here to read for a couple of years now, too. In fact, I registered in 2004 and posted for the first time about 2 weeks ago. I get welcomes because I have a low post count, but believe me--I have definitely been a DUer for a while now.

12 years, amazing! I tried to enlist in the Army back in 1994. My recruiter took me on a tour of Fort Sill in Oklahoma. While there, she accidentally hit a car from behind--turns out it was an officer. I remember her being very nervous and telling me it would be okay. She got out, walked over to him, looked like she was a deer in the headlights, and as a result I assumed she was getting a dressing down. When she got back into the car a few minutes later, all she said was that he was a great guy--nowhere else but in the Armed Forces would she have been spoken to more politely! She was all smiles.

I was failed after the medical evaluation--I had pneumonia about a year prior. The doctor rejected me, the jerk. I remember at the time being very nervous, but really wanting it. Military personnel, either past or present, have my envy.

Best memory--when the recruiter took me to the PX store on the base. Everything was considerably less extensive compared to most places...

[JeffreyWilliamson]

24. Profit Motive...

Well, I'm not so sure removing profit motive will make support for war melt away--we will still have to deal with a Fox News public and ego/legacy-fearing President with veto pen...

I can definitely imagine one thing though--without a profit motive in beginning, there would be no war in the first place. The military-industrial and oil complex had a hand in this--and a big one at that. Remove their motivation and the motivation to go in the first place falls away.

[cali]

37. Agreed, and there is a really strong

war profiteering bill in the wings. We should pressure the leadership to bring it to the floor.

[Evoman]

28. The ONLY way to turn most of the fundies and repugs against the war....

would be to get their authorities (the Republican leaders and their church leaders) to change their minds. Unless they hear it from the mouths of their authorities, they CANNOT change their minds. They don't really have minds to change, since they basically parrot their authorities. They always have. Thats why they never have new arguments or talking points until they hear them from someone they trust.

If we could either threaten, or "convince" their leaders to change their tunes, the fucking sheep would go along with it too. But you can't argue directly with an authoritarian, which is what most of the Republicans are, because they don't HEAR you.

[treestar]

30. Nothing

They love war, and are up for any war, no matter how absurd the rationale. They have to "win." The U.S. "winning" a war is what their egos are dependent upon.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. If they thought it would make teens screw before marriage and believe in evolution.

If they thought it would keep the Supreme Court from helping them outlaw the birth control pill.

If they had to pay higher taxes because of it, or it made gas prices go up to $10 a gallon.

That's all I can think of. :shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

32. Having to serve in Iraq until the end of the war.

[NuttyFluffers]

34. what i learned in sales: 10% always say no, 10% always say yes...

these people are crazy and absolutely hopeless. ignore them and use them as necessary. the rest of the 80% is sane, refine your pitch to win those over.

hey look! that 10% + 10% = 20% now where have i seen a number close to that?....

[LeftCoast]

35. Thats easy. Make them pay for it.

Either in blood or treasure. Make them serve (universal draft)or make them pay for it in taxes (rather than adding to the national debt as we are doing now).

[opihimoimoi]

36. A major Recession/Depression

[burythehatchet]

38. take the profits out of it