I Have A Question On The Use Of The Word "Bitch"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

In the "General Discussion Politics" forum a poster was opining on why Hillary is unelectable... That's really besides the point...

I was going to defeat his assertion by posting several polls where Hillary is beating Frederick 90027 and Rudy G(h}ouliani and saying "if Hillary is unelectable why is she making Fred Thompson and Rudy Guliani her bitches."

I didn't because I didn't want to offend anybody or get in a flame war...

Is the use of the word bitch always verboten , even when referring to GOOPERS?

[Taverner]

1. Guys talk this way. (Most) women do not.

Lowest common denominator and all :eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. It's A Synonym For " Punked."..

I did say Hillary will work Guliani like a rented mule but it doesn't have the same ring...

[Taverner]

12. Hey man, I'm on your side

I was referring to the lowest common denominator for tolerance

In retrospect, I didn't clarify

[BlooInBloo]

2. IMO, everybody uses it in real-life - both boy and girl.... But I don't really care enough...

... to argue the issue. There are plenty of other critical terms I can use, should the need arise.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Yeah

As in something a person is turned into...

[napi21]

15. My guess is that you are fairly young. I admit to using the word bitch

to describe some women, but I sure don't mean what YOU think I mean.

My meaning is a Leona Helmsly woman that everybody hates because she treats everyone link sh*t!

[BlooInBloo]

17. Under 40, but not by as much as I would like. :)

[napi21]

19. Well, I turned 64 today. Just from overhearing some recent conversations,

calling someone a bitch doesn't mean what it used to. I like my definition best!

[BlooInBloo]

21. It's a fine definition. Happy birthday!!!

[Matariki]

32. Hey! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

It's my birthday today too. I turned 49.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. "Now A Days " People Use The Word As In Something You're Turned Into

As in the San Antonio Spurs made the Cleveland Cavaliers into their bitches...

[Redstone]

4. "Beside the point," not "besides."

Redstone

[noamnety]

5. Do you mean "verboten" on DU?

or from a feminist perspective?

The answer depends.

Thanks for stopping to contemplate the use of the word and what it really says about gender and women's place in the world before posting it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I Didn't Use It...

The way most folks use the word now they are not referring to a woman they don't like or to a female dog but someone they put into a subordinate position...

[Gormy Cuss]

20. So how do you suppose that meaning arose?

Was it from referring to dogs as subordinates, or women? I think that when you can answer that for yourself, you'll know whether using the term that way is the best way to describe the situation. FWIW, I think mule is a great substitution.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. It Started As A Name For A Female Dog To An Ugly Name For Women To Somebody You Have Made Your

Subordinate...

[noamnety]

26. a bit of male supremacy rolled up in that, eh?

(also I did understand you didn't end up using it, that was clear from your post, and it was a sincere thank you on my part for stopping to question it)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. No-Male Supremacy...

I was going to say Hillary Clinton will make Fred Thompson and Rudy Guliani her bitches or (subordinates).

But I'm not using it here...Because it offends people...

[noamnety]

43. I meant in the word itself

Like how some people say "that's gay" to mean something is lame - the homophobia is tied to the word derivation itself, and inescapable.
Or "Mighty white of you" - doesn't matter whether you are talking to a white person or a black person, it reinforces institutionalized racism. Or "white trash" to refer to the non-"normal" kind of trash (nonwhite). Or "balls" to mean courage - another phrase that reinforces male supremacy.

There's a reason why we use a slur for women, not for men, to mean a subordinate.

[MazeRat7]

7. I suggest speaking your mind... screw the PC crowd....

This includes using the lexicon you are exposed to on a daily basis. If someone wants to ignore your message and focus on your syntax... then fuck 'em.

MZr7

[Katherine Brengle]

31. It's not "syntax" it's misogyny.

The word bitch is used as a derogatory term for women.

Using the word to demean men means you are equating them (whether consciously or not) with women and believe that this is negative.

Why do that?

[supernova]

8. We've had some holy-hell, humdinger,

drag-you-thru-the-mud, then the tar pits, then the lava beds flamewars of the use of "bitch" at DU.

It's mostly safer if we don't use. Really.

[BlooInBloo]

9. I call it "good times." :)

[TahitiNut]

11. We're ALL supposed to know the DU Rules ... but obviously some don't read.

Special note with regard to the word "bitch": The word "bitch" has been the source of a great deal of controversy on this website, because some of our members consider it to be a bigoted slur against all women, while others do not consider it bigoted. For a while we actively deleted posts which included this word, in an effort to keep the peace. This effort helped to keep discussions on track, but it resulted in many deleted posts that were otherwise perfectly fine as well as many confused people. Futhermore, the moderators themselves were ambivalent about removing the word. For this reason, we no longer automatically remove the word "bitch." However, we strongly urge members to voluntarily avoid using the word if they wish to keep their own discussions from going off-topic, and we reserve the right to take disciplinary action if we think someone is deliberately using the word in an effort to disrupt or cause trouble.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

I heartily recommend the DU Rules as a "good read" ... since it's pretty obvious Skinner, et. al. invested a significant amount of time and thought in composing them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. It Seems There Is Ambivalence About The Word...

And the people I would have applied the appellation to weren't even women and aren't even particularly feminine , even given Rudy's penchant for wearing dresses... I would never call a woman a bitch; even one I despised... I probably wouldn't even call a man a bitch; even one I despised...

Many people use it as a synonym for defeat, humiliate, embarrass, etcetera, as in Lennox Lewis made Mike Tyson his bitch....

[TahitiNut]

24. Think about this: Is "vixen" as perjorative? Why or why not?

:shrug: (Simple answers are almost always wrong.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Depends

We all have our own moral codes... If somebody said any woman was a bitch I would be offended but if someone said Mr. or Ms. X made Mr. Y his or her bitch as in embarrassing, defeating, or humiliating, him I wouldn't have a problem with it...

If someone said John Kerry made George Bush his bitch in their three debates but lost the election I wouldn't have a problem with it..

In any case I probably won't use the word outside of this thread here because of the controversy it engenders....

[BlooInBloo]

28. Note that that usage is a direct descendant of guys' misogynistic treatment of "their" women....

EDIT: I.e., even the "good" uses aren't really all that good.

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. try this instead

Bee-och

[BlooInBloo]

14. Biz-snatch!

:rofl:

[hlthe2b]

16. I think use is just fine...

When you are referring to a beautiful mature female DOG! Period.

[BlooInBloo]

27. self-delete - wrong branch.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Thanks For The Input

I'm not using it here...

But I still think Hillary will pown Freddy and Rudy

[BlooInBloo]

33. "pwn". :) It's pronounced "pown", of course. And of course she'll trounce either...

Only republicans and DUers will refuse to vote for her. That adds up to a Democratic landslide.

[Katherine Brengle]

30. Just don't use it. When you use it to describe men, it is no better - in actuality, you are

equating them with women when you really mean to say something negative about them.

Why would we do that?

[Neecy]

34. I don't like it....

I used to participate on one of the Kos sports blogs. The mix was about 70/30 men to women and about the same liberal to conservative.

A few posters there used the word 'bitch' to excess, sometimes to reference a player they thought wasn't very good (feminizing the guy, in other words). Sometimes it would be generic, such as the oft-used, "Good win, bitches".

This was so common that eventually, after a couple of years, I brought it up in a general discussion of board rules. I was nice about it. It wasn't long-winded, hysterical, or nasty. Doesn't matter - the bats of hell descended upon me and the word 'bitch' was thereafter used at every opportunity on every subject. Even one of the front page writers, thinking it was cute, called me a bitch. I had apparently violated a sacred, much beloved word for some men. Nice that Kos allows all kinds of this stuff on his sports blogs, including rampant homophobia to go with the sexism. Buyer beware if you frequent one of them.

[DemGa]

35. I think it's offensive

It's the same usage of the term, just applied to a "safer" target. To me, it validates the original intent of word.

[AtomicKitten]

36. the ugly epithets seem to be increasing and the targets diffuse

It's unfortunate venom is expressed using the same vile terminology that is rampant on the other side of the aisle.

We should be better than this.

[Wiregrass Willie]

38. I've never used that word to describe a woman ..

However, the phrase "son-of-bitch" sums up certain men better than any other I can think of. Therefore, I use it often.

It has always struck me as odd that three of the four worse things you can call a men, (bastard, mufugga and sob) reflect more on his mother than on him. There must be a cultural moral in there somewhere.

[gollygee]

39. Best post in the thread

and very insightful.

To the OP: "Bitch" is a term of ownership - it's about a man who owns "his" woman. Even if used for a man, it's still comparing a man to a woman who is owned by a man. I personally don't like the term. Thank you for starting the discussion because I think it's one of those words where the misogyny isn't immediately as apparent as some (the C word for instance) so people don't always find it offensive. And I guess it doesn't bother me as much as that either, but it does bother me to some extent no matter how it's used.

[porphyrian]

40. Context, context, context.

Some people would have you believe that there are taboo words. However, that's insane bullshit. Language belongs to everyone, and all of it. What determines whether or not a word is offensive is its context, not its mere existence.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I Ain't (sic) Using It Here

I have bigger (Republican) fish to fry...

But I still think Hillary will make Frederick90027 and Rudy G(h)ouliani her you know whats...

[porphyrian]

42. You've got to pick your battles, I suppose. - n/t