Windiows VISTA UGGH

[nadinbrzezinski]

ok folks, yesterday like a good computer geek I decided to do the usual defrag. This is the first time I defragmented the drives for the new toy... which is running vista ultimate

Now I don't know how many of you have looked at the SYS Admin tools for Vista... lets just say defrag leaves quite a bit to be desired. Yes Bill, if perchance you should read this... IT SUCKS. I ended up downloading a third party defrag tool (Auslogics disk Defrag), so I could actually have some control over this.

Not only did the third party tool work... something that the Vista tool didn't... but it gave me the mimimum level of control I needed.

I need to change my laptop, and never mind that I have to run some Win programs (I guess that is what this computer will be for), but after that fiasco I am serioulsy taking a look at an Applebook. Hell I need a simple word processor. If not the apple, a base intel machine and insert flavor of linux here. (I am partial to Ubuntu)

I have had more headaches since we got this machine (on the IT side) than I have ever experienced before in my life... lets just say dreamweaver took six hours to install, and will not run on the admin side, but only in a secondary account.

Oh and what is more... if any of you go to the Microsoft forums... lets just say this rant is mild.

No wonder way, and I mean WAAAAAYYY too many companies are considering Mac and Linux... vista... well the admin tools really left me underwhelmed. Actually they left me speechless... I was going... this has to be some kind of a joke... wow! The WOW for this idiocy starts now!

[defendandprotect]

1. Right -- heard about this LONG AGO . . . and msg looked like it was spreading . . . but still many

bought Vista anyway???

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Hubby is a gamer and I truly have several

applications that will NOT run even in emulation... they are very specialized...

My other choice is to get the base machine and a copy of XP, wipe the drive and put in XP

Oh and reality is... that if you are the average user... your choices when you go to the store are... Windows Vista Home, Windows Vista Business, Ultimate and the last flavor I forgot

So the end user is being forced fed vista... and some games already released will NOT run on XP

[Rick Myers]

3. Micro$oft has crossed the Rubicon with Vista

If this doesn't get us some open-source releases, nothing will...

Sorry for your headaches...

I'm hangin' on to my copies of XP Pro until NOTHING WORKS...

[defendandprotect]

5. Re XP . . . only minor complaint -- but I had to undo some of the "updates" --

A real pain in the ass --
I don't think they understand the difference between update and destroy --

[Deja Q]

44. Which ones screwed up your system?

My only complaint is that upgrading the nvidia driver caused WGA to re-activate, and I had to call "'Lisa' with the accent suggesting her name is much closer to 'Anjali'" to get the system re-activated. Couldn't even tell her what I had changed; the cue card they read just doesn't go there.

It's bloody nigh impossible to contact MS with support issues, and I sure as heck and not allowing their built-in applets to tell MS when a problem occurs. That's my bandwidth I'm leasing and I will decide what to tell them. My time and services are valuable too.

[defendandprotect]

57. Forget which update it was, but changed a lot of my stuff --

and finally had to track it and just remove the update--
A big waste of my time --
I'm sure you've been thru that!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. They have

I am considering going to the store and getting a base machine

Like office depot sometimes sells for oh 400 bucks, and a copy of XP

My specialized software does not run on emulation... people have tried... especially NOW

And it does not run on vista very well either... looong, and I mean that one LOOONGGGG story

But the eight year old laptop is truly on its last legs

Why I was looking at oh Mac tonight, and the crossover software and XP once again

It is not only MS that has crossed the rubicon, but also some specialized companies, serious.

[tabasco]

27. That's a good metaphor.

This is it for me with Micrshaft.

Vista is horrible.

[Ms. Toad]

50. Alas, that's where I found myself 4 weeks ago

HP finally declared my machine a lemon. (35 days out of 40 in the shop - 3 separate trips for motherboard, LCD, and DVD/CD unit replacement, to be followed shortly thereafter by hive destruction, failure to recognize the battery, phantom keystroke entry, and refusal to recognize real keystrokes. Personally, I think it was assembled on a Monday after a very drunk weekend.)

Fortunately, HP finally recognized it was a lemon and replaced it. Unfortunately, the only replacements available with the features I need came with Vista.

The new one arrived yesterday (another 4 weeks without my computer). After a day of installing minimal software (including one install that refused to install properly - then also refused to uninstall), I am currently running without some of the new safety features because when I turn them on the only browser that functions properly with my mouse is IE. Hmm. Wonder why Microsoft would set the integrity levels for browsers other than IE to make them run in the most annoying fashion.

[Renew Deal]

79. I feel the same way about XP.

I'm still waiting for a reason to upgrade. Flashy graphics doesn't do it for me.

[Occulus]

89. Someone needs to set up a donation fund for OpenGL development.

Seriously. OpenGL could do every last thing DX10 does, do it cheaper in terms of code, and probably faster given the lack of it being... well... Micro$oft bloatware.

If money were put into development. Really, this is almost an antitrust issue all its own, as OpenGL and DXx directly "compete". Sort of. Kinda.

What I would like to see is all games released which support DirectX also support OpenGL, so all games can run natively in *nix. Neverwinter Nights does, UT2K4 does, Doom3 does, there's a Quake3 binary, and I think Quake4 does as well. Some others may run natively, but I don't think I have them.

It's a truly "suck" situation in every sense of the word.

[Donkeykick]

4. Thanks.

I think that i will give Bill a long time to work out the bugs.:eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Last time it took two years

but XP (Yep we were early adopters), did not have these nightmares

Oh they had some driver problems... but software didn't do the cute things Vista is doing

If you can hold on until they bring this piece of... out of beta... paid, public beta, my opinion, hold off

And thinkgs like Defrag, I can bet they will not make it as nice as the XP tool (and that one was uggly... yep... this is how bad the vista one is)

[Dr.Phool]

7. I just bought a new laptop, and Vista was the only option.

Slower than hell, buggy as shit.

I may just blow out the hard drive. I have an OEM version of XP. I might install that instead.

Anything new that Microsoft issues should be considered a virus for at least a year after it's released.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Turn off all the fancy stuff on it, like the aero display

and that will make it run faster


To think that the Aero was implemented in Linux a while ago

It almost feels like they took all the bad stuff out of linux and implemented it in Vista...

By the way, playing wiht the Applebook tonight... it had a feel of a solid, and I mean solid package... but then again I had no chance to really push it

Oh and if you use ready boost and a thumb drive, you can increase your RAM by 4 Megs

[Dr.Phool]

11. I've only used it on vacation so far.

I needed something to keep up with e-mail and check out the latest on DU.

I'll get some free time about Monday, and start deleting all the bloatware they put on there, add some memory, and start turning stuff off, once I figure out how.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Let me see if I can figure it out on this one and let you know

ok go into the control pannel and appearances

From there it should be pretty self explanatory

[FREEWILL56]

36. I have home premium,

but you lost me as in my control panel apperances isn't listed. I too dispise this overbearing self-protecting piece of crap that is incompatible with everything just so they can make more money reselling there old programs to run on this at a lower capability. I'm sorry I didn't hear the word on this os before I bought it and within 3 days I emailed ms that this is one big piece of garbage that they shoved on me. It won't even take their updates without failure and don't think you'll be able to go back to an earlier setpoint as I tried that in the first week to see if I could reverse something I did.
BTW, I believe Bill Gates retired so he washed his hands of the monster garbage he produced while going to the bank laughing. Don't help his retirement by buying this junk anymore as this is not just a few bugs that need straightened as the whole os is garbage. I would rather have millenium than this and I'm considering a non ms os. Any recommendations along with pros and cons?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Well I will be loacing the Ubuntu distro

into my laptop to see if I can make my "mission critical apps" work in Ubuntu

No I will not be doign WINE, but there is a commercial version that should be easier to set up

http://www.codeweavers.com/about/

If that works, my next laptop will be a base macihne, running ubuntu and this stuff, for my win programs

[kineneb]

58. you will probably like Ubuntu

I am a Kubuntu user, and long-time Linux fan (something about the Blue Screens of Death back in 3.11 and 98se...).

Ubuntu and its various varieties seem to load easily: I have it running on an IBM Thinkpad 600e (all of 366MHz!) and a Thinkpad T30 (my "new" laptop). It doesn't require the RAM or harddrive space that Vista does; I have lots of space on the 40 gig HD, and doubt that I will have any space problems.
Ubuntu has a great update system and programs are easy to download as well. It also automatically runs a system check after starting up 30 times (that can probably be reset).


The only caveat: if one still uses dial-up, I recommend using OpenSuSE 10.2. Get a friend to download all the disks from the website, and then load the programs needed from them. I did this for a friend who has dial-up to save download time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Its not in home premium

wow...

Bill really released a piece of crap

[FREEWILL56]

52. Not that I see.

Now there are supposed to be a couple of views on this and I'll try to find the other view. The view I use is the old style. In case others aren't sure what the hell I'm talking about, they give you the choice of classic views and their newer view. Not everything is accessable in both views.

[Nutmegger]

13. Yes Compiz

http://www.compiz.org

I'm running an old computer with a 64MB GeForce and 512 RAM and it runs Compiz perfectly.

I don't know what the hell MS did to make "Aero" require 2 gigs of RAM. That's obscene!

[Renew Deal]

81. I think Vista is particulary susceptible to this.

XP/2003 Server were a tangible improvement over 98/2000/NT. 2000 was an improvement over 98/NT. You were getting boots in performance, usability, and security. What am I getting from Vista besides pretty graphics and better local search?

[pansypoo53219]

10. mac OSX

HA-HA!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

69. ?

that's an odd comment?

What do you mean?

[BenDavid]

14. Might want to look in the

scheduled maintainance and make sure your defrag is not preset to run once a week.....I would also suggest that you go to the logo and all programs and click accessories and system tools and click run and type in msconfig and clcik the startup tab and check off many of those programs that startup when rebooted....any way I can be of assistance with the vist just holla holla...
Ben David

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I turned the preset off

the problem is not the system... the problem is... no progress bar, no progress anytthing and just a passed failed kind of a scenario

Not acceptable.

Ok... for the average user it may be

But not for me... I like to have some control

I actually was surprised that it was "on" to run every week, but had yet to do it.

[NuttyFluffers]

16. computers/OS are mere tools to me, so software loyalty doesn't factor. go ahead 'n switch

you don't need to have all your computers/OS one brand or another. it's distantly like when i can afford more than one video game console; go ahead and buy the other consoles if you really, really like their games. perhaps more apt, it's like general toolkits. sometimes we get really attached to our old Craftman tools, othertimes we update our Craftman set with with new stuff. while at others we buy the cheapo Black and Decker cordless power tool so our kids can screw in things to construct stuff in school projects.

this way when 'not so great' products roll around i'm not elated or crushed by their success or failure to do as advertised. i'm not emotionally invested in the product's market success, i'm emotionally invested in what the product can do for me. this is a very important difference and explains what i think is happenin when a lot of Mac/Linux switchers start telling their good news to others. other people for some reason can only read it as digging into their pet product and get into a flame war, which is just plain stupidity. most sensible people read into it that someone is happy they found a tool that works well for them.

with that in mind i fully encourage you to get a MacBook (what i'm currently using, and loving it) or a Linux box. there's nothing wrong with a different fun utility device with useful packaged ware. the stability, flexibility, reliability, whatever is just even a better selling point atop everything.

[NuttyFluffers]

17. actually, screw staying neutral -- if you dont have a mac yet get one

i know, i know, i shouldn't "proselytize" but i think it's just the better diversity option for you right now -- assuming you don't have a mac yet. get a MacBook (or MacBook Pro whatever), partition the drive, run Boot Camp, install XP, install your specialized software, then enjoy life. seriously, think of it as paying for not just hardware but nice software that you've been needlessly missing out on: bundled OS X, iLife, etc. that way you can do your daily multimedia stuff, tinker with nifty toys to accessorize your life, and when you really need to get down to work you run an uncluttered install of XP w/ your specialized software all alone.

but this assumes you already own a copy of XP OS disc, like i do. that's what made getting a mac machine so easy. i had the MS XP OS but i wanted OS X as well with the fun bundled software. so i asked myself, "do it yourself PC w/ old software i already have -- OR -- new PC w/ no real labor, roughly same price (mac mini at the time), and NEW FUN FREE bundled software AND i still get to use my old software..." it wasn't a hard decision when i asked myself that way. so go for the NEW FUN FREE software, the hardware price for the most part should be a rough wash.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Been readying reviews and other stuff

I-write does it come bundled?

I know it will save in the usual suspects (Word and RTF) so that is not a problem

And if it does not... open office.. er neooffice

[colinmom71]

33. Right now, Mac OS X only comes with a demo....

version of iWork. You do have to pay for the full version of that software but you can at least try it out before you decide to spend the $79 on it. The full version comes with Pages (a full use word processor program), Numbers (a spreadsheet program), and Keynote (which makes presentations like PowerPoint does). The new update to Mac OS X comes out sometime next month but I do not know if iWork will be bundled with it then...

Macs do come bundled with a simple word processor called TextEdit. It's just a simple and basic word program with a spell checker and page layout tools. I'm not exactly proficient with word processors so TextEdit is what I tend to use. But if you're used to more complex word programs, you may prefer to go with buying iWork or using an alternative OS and your favorite word program...

While I have a MacBook, I haven't bothered with Bootcamp and an other OS, so I can't speak from experience on how to use that feature. But my new iMac that just came in yesterday (Yippee!) does have iWork on it (my Mac tech hubby set it up last night). I just haven't played around with it yet... If you can get to an Apple store, you can take a little time to play around with the Mac OS and the demo of iWork, as well as ask questions about the programs before you commit to a purchase. Hope this helps, and good luck finding a computer that meets your needs!

[NuttyFluffers]

60. TextEdit for the most part is solid general user software

it takes some finagling to get it to simulate things like footnotes/endnotes (it technically cannot do it in a true formatted sense. but you can work with sub/superscript options and some general editing to simulate. decent for the occasional school paper). and it doesn't have all the bells and whistles needed for true editing for things at the size level of full length novels. but it really is just a far better version of Notes. i've used it to write my Japanese homework, easily switching via hotkeys between scripts, something Notes has no hope of doing, and something time consuming even in MS Word (trust me, i've tried doing my homework on both). it's solid excellence for the layman, but not truly geared for the professional (that'd be Pages, Word Perfect, MS Word, etc).

[JCMach1]

21. Screw the Mac... just get Linux, as dual-boot or stand-alone

[NuttyFluffers]

59. that's another great option. but go for great software bundles for sure.

i'm sure there's plenty of great analogs for macs multimedia suite. but i got very lazy and stopped bothering with research of analogous software and packaged bundles. i liked the software bundle i saw for mac for a while now so i just up and bought one when i had a chance. though i hear there's a great new OS X emulator on linux -- it's name is Pear i think. could be good to look into. i'm just at the stage where i'm tired of going through the effort to stay up to date and look for deals; a $500 mac mini was a steal for software. if i wanna be a super-duper bargain tech nerd i can then just go create my own laptop (ooh, i'm getting a migraine thinking about it...) and just install my OS X along w/ a linux bundle and dual boot. but i'm gonna enjoy my laziness and flow...
;)

[ptolle]

68. ubuntu

Please allow me to heartily recommend Ubuntu Linux as a superb choice for an alternative to any of the microstuffed OSs.And it's free. Easy to use, robust, as secure as anything can be in this environment,Beau coup support, much software generally also free, large enthusiastic committed user community.

[Hissyspit]

22. Thanks for the tips. I'm switching to a MacBook Pro. n/t

[The Vinyl Ripper]

25. Do it yourself PC...

Building a PC is a ridiculously simple chore for which one needs a phillips head screwdriver and an hour or two if you are really slow.

If you shop wisely it can save you hundreds.

Not everyone has the money to go out and buy a new computer whenever it strikes their fancy to do so.

My last upgrade cost me under $200 and I put a new dual core pentium, mobo, 1.5 gigs of memory and a pcie x 16 graphics card in my existing aluminum atx case. For less than $100 more I put in two 200 gig SATA drives in an XP software RAID 0 configuration that is 70% faster than a single SATA drive.

Eventually building your own PC will go the same way as building your own TV, but for the moment it is the cheapest way to go for most folks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Not a laptop

[Deja Q]

45. Most people don't think about DIY... much less be able to use one in the first place.

That's how Dell, Acer, Gateway, and other companies sell desktops for cheap.

Pity nobody can build their own laptop... :D

[B3Nut]

67. You can DIY a laptop

Asus barebone laptop kits are popular. There's less customization than with a desktop, but you still select your hard disk, memory, and wireless options. We've built several Asus kits, though they're hard to find in stock.

Google "barebone laptop" and click away, lots of options out there.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[NuttyFluffers]

61. oh i agree, DIY PC is ridiculously simple chore, but it's still a chore...

after a few flubs trying to bargain shop my PCs into $300 range nothingness and watching the contents implode in little over a year because of an unexpectedly cheap and faulty component here or there -- and having that cheap component take out some of the few primo stuff i really splurged on -- i just got tired of fighting 'the good fight.' yeah, it did feel a bit like handing in my tech nerd card, but looking back swallowing my pride was less painful than all that maintenance and repairs and worry i was pouring into my machines. if i had to do it all over i'd do it, and once again for good measure!
:D

i finally got to that point for me where 'cheap is expensive.' not a choice for everybody i'm sure, heck not really an option for me either. but i found that putting reliability over price, in fact over most things, tended to pay off huge dividends. you should see how my 'peace of mind' account has outpaced inflation!
:7

[The Vinyl Ripper]

86. I've built my own since the 486 days..

The only time I've had one die was from a lightning strike that took out every piece of electronics in the house that was plugged into the wall.

The real key is getting a good power supply, they seem to cause more problems than anything else.

The aluminum ATX case I'm using now has been through three mobos.

[Sherman A1]

19. Question

you are in the game industry and aren't running a mac? Back in the day.... that was all that was being run by everyone that I knew in the biz.


Get thee to the Mac store now!

Best of Luck to you!:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Campaign Cartographer and NBOS

Astrosynthesis do not play well with others...

At least NBOS software plays well with Vista...

Profantasy decided, for lord knows what wicked reason, not to develop their new version using any of the pre release betas... lets just say it runs... sort of kind off

;-)

[NuttyFluffers]

62. i remember Campaign Cartographer!

all that power was tempting, but so often it was like looking at the diorama supplies aisle at your game store. all that power, but only the freakishly dedicated and incredibly creative few could turn all that stuff into *magic*. that software is ooooold! i'm surprised no one else has made an analog of it on other OSes by now.

[Richard Steele]

23. You seem to be having a very AVERAGE "Vista" experience, compared to my Vista-owning friends.

I'll offer no comment, only a heartfelt :hug:

[intaglio]

24. Vista=Longest, most complex suicide note in history

File saving & recovery were faster on an old comp running '98
The check in with Microshaft to see if the internet is really working
The DRM
The updates that let it work a little better in xp emulation not flagged as critical (finally I got my copy of Morrowind to play again)
The updates to the updater that happen without your knowledge or consent despite you wanting to approve updates,
the list is not endless - it just seems so

[U4ikLefty]

28. I blame Ralph Nader!!! n/t

[Moochy]

30. He made me click "I Accept" on VISTA's EULA!!!

Even though I wanted to read the whole thing! HE SAID THAT THERES NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN XP AND VISTA!!

[U4ikLefty]

35. LOL...I forgot how much I loved your sarcasm Moochy!!!

Nice to see you're active & making noise on these threads.

Peace
U4ikLefty

[mudesi]

29. DON'T DEFRAG!

It's really not worth it anymore. The speedup is not noticeable. All it does is put all your data in one convenient spot on the disk to be wiped out more easily!

[Rex]

31. Running an older version of XP Pro here with SP1 and ya know what?

All these new fangled games that have come out for DX10? Run great on my system! Kiss my ass Bill!

XP will stay, Vista can blow in the wind and be a huge money loss like the XBOX. Gates needs to learn how to make a good product! XP was good and 98 was good, Vista ain't worth a roll of shit paper IMO.

[Ezlivin]

32. Careful about replacing the "native" OS with Linux

You may find that the store will refuse to work on the computer if you have a problem.

Even if it's only the hinge. (There was a post about this very thing here on DU in the past couple of days.)

[dkofos]

34. Once you replace windoz with Linux you won't have computer problems

[Cronus Protagonist]

56. True, you then have endless patching problems

There's no winner in the OS field.

[dkofos]

73. You have not used Linux recently or don't know what you are talking about.

I have used Debian Linux for nearly three years and have NEVER patched anything.

Never got a virus, adware, spyware, ran out of memory, never even had to reboot.

Debian Linux runs flawlessly.

[Cronus Protagonist]

74. Great! Post your IP address here then

Invite hackers and see what happens. My guess is a) you won't and b) if you do, you'll be patching like a drywaller in an hour.

:P

Here's a link you might want to read before doing that though...

http://www.enterprise-security-today.com/news/Linux-Security-Patches-Released/story.xhtml?story_id=0220002K2RVY

"Debian and Gentoo have focused on their Exim packages, in order to prevent attacks based on local privileges."

[dkofos]

75. A two year old article, BFD. Didn't affect me then, won't affect me now.

And I still won't have to patch a fucking thing because it was fixed two years ago.

Think what you want, say what you will but you could never get me to change back to windoz.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I've used Linux on my dying laptop before

double book and XP forces the Linux distro to not even show.

Trust me, I know my way around Linux, to a point

And the problems with Vista are more than just legendary.

I paid, since hubby is a gamer, to beta test this piece of crap

One machine will remain a WIN machine since that is what he needs to run his games, but my own laptop... no way, no how, this is how strongly I feel about this now.

As to voiding the guarantee... well not that I'd recommend Dell... or IBM, but they are starting to sell Linux systems... as well... not that I'd buy a Dell for Political reasons

[Deja Q]

38. The defragmenter leaves a lot to be desired, I'll agree 500%...

But my laptop (upgraded to Vista Ultimate) works with Office 2007 without a hiccup.

It's strange even a low end PC lacks the TPM 1.2 chip installed, but oh well. :( (I was hoping to use BitLocker...)

If you look at the industry, big business is moving toward thin clients anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Yeah they forgot about the consumer

but it is not just defrag, it is the whole sysadmin set up. Will look into a "replacement" for the tools for this machine

Or what they will do is offer live care and they take care of it remotely, for fifty smackers a year... which I guess for the average user might be a good thing... defrag, no problem, set it up, will do it for you

[Deja Q]

41. Live Care sucks. And it's impossible to hear them anyway,

even with the "accent training" they clearly get. (Gee, can't Microsoft just be honest instead of doing a double whammy on consumers?)

To me, a computer is becoming more of a tool than a support job. Especially when techs, a decade ago, moved to Microsoft products saying nobody lost their job working with Microsoft products.

In a word: "oops".

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I know one of those techs

he has all the certs you want to mention

When we last met him, I mentioned Linux

He was physically pained

I asked why?

His words.. many of his small business clients are moving to Linux and he had NO CLUE how to work around that.

He is loosing business.

[Deja Q]

54. Wow

I'm amazed people are moving to Linux; more and more people I'm seeing are moving to thin client setups...

Lots of people will be losing business...

[blogslut]

42. Call me a fool

But I stopped at Windows 2000 and refuse to upgrade my desktop.

As for my work computer, I've got an old iMac G3. It's running Kubuntu and I am in love. Open Office does everything that MS Office does - at least for my simple needs. Gimp is the freaking bomb. The only drawback is the licensing issue with Flash - simply won't work properly on PowerPc architecture. Gnash helps for loading basic Flash stuff but as far as YouTube and any Flash-Based media player, fuggeddaboutit. Then again, I'm just a writer and I banished games from our computers ten years ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. It is my mapping programs that are a problem

I use them to create maps for commecial product

There is no equivalent to those products outside of windows

[blogslut]

49. I cannot recommend anything

because I know nothing about mapping software. But I would hope if a compatible Open Source version exists, those in the know will inform you. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Autorealm is NOT to the par

I've used it, I like it, but when it comes to complex visually stunning maps... it truly leaves a lot to be desired.

[dkofos]

76. Try switching to Debian. No problems with flash. At least not on a PC.

Haven't heard any flash problems on Macs using Debian.

[BlooInBloo]

47. Thanks for reminding me to get my XP updates!

[lpbk2713]

53. MicroSlop jumped the shark with Vista AFAIC.

I tried it, went back to XP Pro. Will continue to use that for as long as possible and then go open source. And BTW, I tried Ubuntu and I'm not real thrilled with that either.

[alfredo]

55. Get Boot Camp (free) to dual boot OSX and Linux, or get VMware Fusion

Or Parallels. With Fusion or Parallels you can run both OS's at the same time.

I'm compiling Gnome on OSX right now. Later I will do Gnome Office.

Of course you could install Vista or XP and use the above tools.

On OSX you do have X11 and a long list of UNIX apps you can run native or using something like Fink.

I use Scribus, Inkscape, Gimpshop. All were favorites from my Linux days. Neo Office runs natively, and so does Abiword.

[Clark2008]

63. But is the problem Vista or is it that other companies didn't

get on the ball - with TWO YEARS WARNING - and update their drivers?

I sell computer training - and, from what I'm hearing from clients, the problem is with the lack of updated drivers that are compatible with Vista and not Vista, itself.

[alfredo]

80. Did MS give those other companies the code they need to write

drivers? Did MS make changes that affected drivers already written? Were these companies in market niches that MS wants to dominate with their own products, or in competition with a preferred vendor?

[Snarkturian Clone]

64. I need a new computer and i'm afraid to get one

because it will have vista. No macs allowed in my home.

[alfredo]

72. Why no Macs?

[Perry Logan]

65. Microsoft stands as an excellent argument against the capitalist system.

Talk about "market failure"!

[Kelly Rupert]

71. Mac and linux stand as excellent arguments for it n/t

[MyNameGoesHere]

66. you actually couldn't figure out defrag in Vista?

OMG it is just 1 click option with nothing else? You want minimal? You can schedule or defrag now? How can it be any simpler? You sure you are not just doing the jumping on the bandwagon for jumping on the bandwagons sake? You want minimal with more control? You seem confused.

[slackmaster]

70. I'm sticking with 2000 Server and 2003 Server Standard Edition for now

It's what I support at work, so that's what I'm using at home.

[Netbeavis]

78. 2003 here...but can not wait for 2008 ....

beta tested Longhorn.

Some of the TS upgrades will make Citrix obsolete for many small to medium sized companies.


saves some serious ca$h.

otherwise staying on 2003 for a while.

[Netbeavis]

77. nice bogus thread....yawn. I've seen this post about 20 times already...

[Renew Deal]

82. First time I've seen this thread.

:shrug:

[Netbeavis]

85. after viewing many tech sites, blogs and forums as I have....

you get to see the same posts copy/pasted over and over again about how much trouble Windows is and lo and behold its a miracle...Apple or a Linux clone might be the solution to the problem.

this cyber-sycophant style of posting is getting old.

[Renew Deal]

87. Please show me where this was copied an pasted from

or acknowledge that multiple people could have the same or similar issues.

Speaking of cyber-sycophants, I've seen posts similar to yours as well.

[Renew Deal]

83. As far as new equipment

my feeling is Apple Powerbook w/ Parralels running XP. It's expensive, but it's where I think people (in a non-corporate environment) should be today.

[CRF450]

84. Certanly for those who just surf the net, but not for us gamers

My dad bought an HP computer with Vista, so far for the last several months he hasent had a single problem with it! I'm looking forward to it for myself once I build a new gaming system.

[Renew Deal]

88. Right

Every situation is different. I'm talking about an average config.

[CRF450]

90. Despite what people here say, I think the main problems with it is...

Lack of driver support, hardware campatability and such. As with any new software or OS, its gonna be buggy, its not gonna run as fast, its not going to perfect for everyone. Macs are not perfect either. I can see Vista not running good at all on a cheap low end system, over time hardware advances will fix this just as it did with XP. In fact alot of people like now bitch and whined about XP when it first came out. I think Vista is a much better launch as a new OS than XP was.